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Magna Graecia: A City State Quest

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gutza1 said:
My point is that we shouldn't go on massive expressionistic wars of conquest. Instead we should prioritize internal development, such as building stone walls.
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If we have the opportunity to break one of the Tribes we have to take it, we have too many enemies and we have to make use of our advantages (more advanced military and a political peace reinforced by fear of the outsiders) whilst we still can.

If we can expand our territory or kill a barbarian city, we do it.
 
gutza1 said:
My point is that we shouldn't go on massive expressionistic wars of conquest. Instead we should prioritize internal development, such as building stone walls.
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Building defensive infrastructure and going to war to knockout threats are not mutually exclusive actions.
 
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The Laurent said:
No? Philosophers can say whatever the fuck they want, as long as they don't actually get to decide anything.
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Eretria is already a polis that the mainland Greeks would burn if they knew how different we are. I have no desire to draw more attention to that with something that might very be the straw that breaks the camel's back and get the other Greeks to look into why we spawned such a blasphemous tradition.

Not to mention that if such a philosophical tradition were to be established than chances are its adherents will eventually be in the position to make decisions.
 
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Cetashwayo said:
...This is all particularly bad because the Hellene is not able to simply dismiss the city as a failed experiment, as some kind of not normal thing that is absolutely wrong, but must conclude that from its many victories it must have some support from the Gods, which is beginning to cause a blood clot to form in his brain
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Hilarious.

gutza1 said:
Honestly, I think that for a while we should focus on internal development and Hellenizing the Peuketii. We've had enough of war for now.
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If there's peace now that's probably the best course of action. Convert the Peutekki to the Eretrian traditions and fortify the city to consolidate the gains made already.
 
Deadly Snark said:
Eretria is already a polish that the mainland Greeks would burn if they knew how different we are. I have no desire to draw more attention to that with something that might very be the straw that breaks the camel's back and get the other Greeks to look into why we spawned such a blasphemous tradition.

Not to mention that if such a philosophical tradition were to be established than chances are its adherents will eventually be in the position to make decisions.
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Don't mainland Greeks have other things to worry about? Like brewing war between leagues? Would they really bother to send army to Eretria when they can send that army against their enemies?

But yeah, there is no point encouraging such things - we are weirdos as is, over time it will become ingrated in our culture and others will kinda sorta get a bit more used to it if we keep up our culture and economy game, and then we will be able, if we want to, to be a bit more weird.
 
Is there anyway we could improve the training of our hoplites or cavallry? Maybe we could construct a field where our hoplites and cavallry exercise every two weeks are hire a trainer for our best men?
 
No7sHere said:
Is there anyway we could improve the training of our hoplites or cavallry? Maybe we could construct a field where our hoplites and cavallry exercise every two weeks are hire a trainer for our best men?
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The Kleos Exoria are one of, if not the most, elite cavalry unit in the known world, if we look to improve our cavalry we should try and focus our efforts via propagating the skills and knowledge they have
 
ctulhuslp said:
Like brewing war between leagues?
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Correct me if I am wrong but currently we are ~40 years from the start of the Peloponnesian war. It is brewing, but it is not anywhere near simmering it wont start simmering until 336 OL (440 BCE) with Samos' rebellion from Athens, and it wont boil over until 345 OL.

It's coming, but it is not here. Either Athens or Sparta could lead a coalition against Eretria, and even if both won't be one it one of them would certainly be enough to crush the city.
 
In OTL there was an entire separate Peloponnesian War that triggered in 460 BCE (in ten years) and lasted for 14 years. That is the so-called "First" Peloponnesian War, and was borne out of the rapidly worsening relations between Sparta and Athens and the other Greek states as the Hellenic coalition decisively broke apart. The truce of that war lasted until 431 BCE when the more famous Peloponnesian war started.
 
Speaking of which...

How has the butterfly effect altered history so far for the Mainland Greeks?
 
Cetashwayo said:
In OTL there was an entire separate Peloponnesian War that triggered in 460 BCE (in ten years) and lasted for 14 years. That is the so-called "First" Peloponnesian War, and was borne out of the rapidly worsening relations between Sparta and Athens and the other Greek states as the Hellenic coalition decisively broke apart. The truce of that war lasted until 431 BCE when the more famous Peloponnesian war started.
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How much pressure was there exerted on non-aligned cities?
 
ctulhuslp said:
How much pressure was there exerted on non-aligned cities?
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I specifically checked and unlike the second war, which grew to encompass Sicily and much of Italy either directly or indirectly, there wasn't much involvement outside of Athens and the Peloponnesian league. It was very much a Hellenic war, in Hellas.
 
No7sHere said:
Is there any way could increase the number of the Kleos exoria to 100 men and make them a permanent institution?
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100 Exiles have left Eretria to regain their honour in foreign wars, only 50 have come back under Herodion in glory, having become elite via fighting across Sicily and North Africa, against Numidian, Libiyan and Hellene. They could possibly take squires to train, but they are a unique resource created by unique circumstances, they can likely be replenished via more Exiles going out to fight as mercenaries and returning. Seeing as that is the precedence that's likely what will happen.
 
@Cetashwayo How plausible was it that the population of Eretria could have evacuated to Italy IRL, or are the starting events ASB (alien space bats, meaning an implausible divergence)?
 
This is more meta-level, but...

@Cetashwayo, were there any decisions during this quest that struck you as being especially boneheaded? I'm aware we must have made mistakes, but I'm curious to hear your perspective on things.
 
gutza1 said:
@Cetashwayo How plausible was it that the population of Eretria could have evacuated to Italy IRL, or are the starting events ASB (alien space bats, meaning an implausible divergence)?
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There have been multiple occasions in which cities have transplanted themselves totally to a new location, most famous being Phocaea, which fled first to Alalia in Corsica and then Massilia in Gaul. Although it's more implausible than what actually happened, the dearth of sources on what precisely happened during the fall of Eretria allows us some creative liberties.

Publicola said:
This is more meta-level, but...

@Cetashwayo, were there any decisions during this quest that struck you as being especially boneheaded? I'm aware we must have made mistakes, but I'm curious to hear your perspective on things.
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There were a number of mistakes, but I can't think of anything particularly stupid, besides maybe the "universal court system for metics and citizens", but by now it's baked in and honestly not the worst thing ever. Really, there were several points where you just barely avoided disaster, like avoiding appointing Leontios as strategos. I thought the slavery restrictions were quite weird, but that's a choice of the players and I don't want to comment too much because it could prejudice people in the future one way or another. In general when I comment it's more to guard against anachronism than to present a correct answer, and IMO I was a bit too interventionist last time.

ctulhuslp said:
Are there ways to grow faster besides importing more Greeks (like those Sicilians)?
Because, like, how do we control slaves who are so close to their home?
Or maybe we can trade away those slaves in exchange for stuff....
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I don't know what you mean. Why would you have trouble controlling serfs? Most of them don't have homes anymore and the Peuketii have made a business out of catching them and selling them to your landlords. Within ten or fifteen years you'll probably have a group of cowboys who are also very good at catching those who run away.
 
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