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Mafio Party

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Broken Base said:
@Winged Cat- Thanks for accepting my apology. That wasn't necessarily what the point of that response was- it was kind of a argumentative rhetorical flourish, but thank you for indulging me, that's actually really useful.
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I tend to take apologies seriously, when they are seriously presented. Flourish or not, I believe you really did mean to apologize.

So that analysis was what you were looking for, and you do now believe me that I really did not see anything worth analyzing, then?

(There arguably were a few observations in there, of the sort I didn't - and largely still don't - feel like pressing. But you wanted my thoughts, and those were among the reasons why I didn't post about those posts before.)
 
Winged Cat said:
So that analysis was what you were looking for, and you do now believe me that I really did not see anything worth analyzing, then?

(There arguably were a few observations in there, of the sort I didn't - and largely still don't - feel like pressing. But you wanted my thoughts, and those were among the reasons why I didn't post about those posts before.)
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It's fair enough; I think we genuinely just kind of look at the game differently and have different approaches, and that's fine. Honestly my reads tend to be much less accurate and more finnicky at the start which is balanced out if you can get reads later, when they're more solidified.
 
@Winged Cat, Rikimaru starting the LMBF train actually makes a lot of sense, considering that he's acted in a rather destructive manner in both games he's played. Admittedly he gave good rationale here as to why he sent Andev after me in a surprisingly brilliant play, but it still seemed to be chaotic at the time. Without him having explained his WR plans, I'd be tempted to Lynch him too. As it stands I'm not sure where he stands, but then again I'm not sure about anyone right now.
 
Sorry for the lack of activity; I had a busy day at work today (my internship is coming to a close, and thus we're all trying to do as much work as we can to finish in time) and I've been tired. I'll read through everything tomorrow.

Pawn Lelouch said:
Also to everyone I will point out that WC dropping the town name means nothing about his aliegance.

There have been games where mafia have been told the town name and there has been games where they haven't, that part of his post at least shouldn't influence anyone.
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Terrabrand said:
To be blunt, I personally think it makes you more likely to be informed scum. We're still in the first third of the day, you just wiped out the ability to use it as a pseudo-confirm for serious pressure while under a measly four votes, and you used it in lieu of trying to first get the lynch off you through pro-town options like analysis.


You have four votes. That's barely over a fifth the town. Use some damn analysis or basic finger pointing rather than busting out the nuclear options.

You've firmed up my vote on you for now because you wasted the pseudo confirm on this crap and did it in a way that looks like informed scum pulling a 'gotcha'. So I have to read you as having good odds of being informed scum.

You use that after other defenses have failed, you do not bust out theoretical nuclear options this early. This looks like informed scum overexcited by their fancy toy of being informed scum, hoping to get confirmation as 'town' super easy because 'whee, easy town confirmation'.

Past experience suggests you will be at best mediocre town, frankly, and this is consistent with this. Meanwhile you haven't had an early death recently so I've got no compunctions about lynching you day 1.
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Just to be clear, if one member of the Mafia knew about the Town faction name and color, the rest would most likely know too, right? (I've participated in a game on SB with what appeared to be a "hidden" Mafia member (I don't know the details) so this may be wrong)

In which case, the only people who wouldn't know would be third party. Maybe.

----

...Come to think of it, in a game between CPU characters and human players, would a Third Party even be a thing? What would that even entail, from a fluff standpoint? Character models that aren't selected by RNG to participate in the round, I guess? (By which I mean: say the human players have four humans participating and play with ten CPUs, but there are thirty characters to choose from because it's a big franchise. Thus, third party would be the characters that are neither player-controlled nor CPUs, being just "potential" participants in the game)
 
Just to chime in I think Winged Cat is a bit suspicious though I believe it is definitely possible if he is town because I could see myself making the early CPU claim if I was in his position.
 
Rem said:
Just to be clear, if one member of the Mafia knew about the Town faction name and color, the rest would most likely know too, right? (I've participated in a game on SB with what appeared to be a "hidden" Mafia member (I don't know the details) so this may be wrong)

In which case, the only people who wouldn't know would be third party. Maybe.
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Complex question. Any and all maf players sharing access to a chat would be able, if they thought of it, to pass the information around through that chat to get exact right color and blah. That would include that if a player could see but not speak in that scum chat they could still have the info passed to them. However, if we assume there are least two independant scum factions, it would be possible for one to be informed and the other faction not.

Design wise, I consider that unlikely, as it would basically flatly disadvantage one of the two and the main design reason for informed scum is more philosophical. I put the town name in the first post of White Raven to make it impossible as a means of verification, because I don't like the play involved in doing so.

I have trouble imagining doing it for one faction and not another.

Rem said:
...Come to think of it, in a game between CPU characters and human players, would a Third Party even be a thing? What would that even entail, from a fluff standpoint? Character models that aren't selected by RNG to participate in the round, I guess? (By which I mean: say the human players have four humans participating and play with ten CPUs, but there are thirty characters to choose from because it's a big franchise. Thus, third party would be the characters that are neither player-controlled nor CPUs, being just "potential" participants in the game)
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The possibilities I can envision as obvious would be either some manner of 'buggy CPU player' or else the NPCs of Mario Party, eg in the older ones at least Bowser is an unplayable antagonistic force. It would be not inconceivable to have him around as a Serial Killer, say. (i'm not familiar with the newer ones)
 
@Nictis could I get you to copy that post to the Megathread?
1) I do not think I will be in any position or mood to engage with it during this game, but if it was there I might read and consider it between this game and the next. I believe I am not alone in this.
2) In the Megathread, it will be easier for new players in future games to find and read before their first game.
3) You can edit your posts in the Megathread. (Theoretically you could edit it here too after the game is over, though that might confuse future readers into thinking you may have edited it during the game in violation of the rules.)

Broken Base said:
Honestly my reads tend to be much less accurate and more finnicky at the start which is balanced out if you can get reads later, when they're more solidified.
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Right. Whereas I prefer to wait on acting until my leads are more solidified.

That said, we're just under halfway through D1 and a number of players have yet to post much. Would you say it is now fair to start pressuring them? (While I might quibble about D1 lynch pressure, "This person isn't even posting" is a D1 lynch reason I can get behind.)

On that note, let's see... @QTesseract can you please post? I'm not even asking for an analysis (though others might appreciate one), just any game post at all. In case you don't:

[X] Lynch QTesseract

Archeo Lumiere said:
As it stands I'm not sure where he stands, but then again I'm not sure about anyone right now.
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Fair. If, per above, the actual D1 lynch goes to an inactive, we'll have more info on D2.

Rem said:
Just to be clear, if one member of the Mafia knew about the Town faction name and color, the rest would most likely know too, right?
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That is how "informed scum" generally works, yes. (And if, somehow, they did not, that one Mafia would likely soon inform the others via their faction chat - assuming they have one, which they almost always do.)

Rem said:
...Come to think of it, in a game between CPU characters and human players, would a Third Party even be a thing? What would that even entail, from a fluff standpoint?
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It's been theorized that corrupted/glitch CPUs might be a third faction. Or, if the humans are the scum, who says the humans are all united - or aware of one another? You could, for instance, have normal human players out to beat the CPU, and then the system's developers trying to purge everyone. I could see a Flynn-like case where the original developer wanted to reclaim "his" property, as fluff for what is mechanically a serial killer.

I could go on and on, but I should stop there. To avoid a repeat of past miscommunications, I disclaim: this is just speculation, at Rem's direct request for speculation. This is not privileged information.
 
Hah. Blue shells do slowing things if you get hit by them right? so there might be a roleblocker or something that uses shells? I might need to actually read what mario kart is beyond some memes.
 
Winged Cat said:
I acknowledge Nictis's post abut the reasons for a D1 lynch, but I note Nictis seems confused as to why people wind up lynching even though they do not put up a strong defense of not lynching. The reason is not because they agree with his logic, but because Nictis et al lynch or pressure anyone who seriously objects because they object (justifying it as "they're playing anti-town whether or not they're scum", when they really aren't). In order to play the game past the first couple of days, anyone who objects must vote anyway. That is why there is no concession in logic but the votes happen anyway: bullying removes the need and inclination to engage in the logic. If you want people to start playing the way you want, the best response to objection is logic, as in that post, and to not claim people are playing anti-town (especially, to not wagontrain) just for objecting.
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Every time this has been brought up, it's been explained logically. You can't expect people to repeatedly type up 1.5k words to explain this each time however. As for the "Anti-Town justification" accusation, what are you thinking of here, specifically?

... Goddamnit I'm going to have to explain this again aren't I?

No-Lynch has never been the problem. The problem has always been with people not trying to find scum, and making it harder for everyone else who is while doing so. Votes are an easy way for people to see your current stances, and to highlight your suspicions. Not voting means there is less information for everyone to look at, voting No-Lynch in the first third of the Day is little more than a bold statement of "I'm not letting anyone know what I think." and that's where the problem lies. The only stance it sets is "Nothing is going to come from the Day so fuck off." and what can be gained from that?


Choosing not to vote is okay, so long as you're still trying to help Town. Whenever it's been brought up however the person who brings it up doesn't do anything to try and help Town until after they have it explained out, and they take up the attention of several irritated players who have already seen this exact problem many times before. Refer to point 1 and 2 on my suggestions list here.
Winged Cat said:
10...actions? That's the reading that makes the most sense given the context, and if so is clearly a joke.
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Pretty sure it's a binary joke.
Winged Cat said:
@Nictis could I get you to copy that post to the Megathread?
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Sure thing.
 
Winged Cat said:
@Nictis could I get you to copy that post to the Megathread?
1) I do not think I will be in any position or mood to engage with it during this game, but if it was there I might read and consider it between this game and the next. I believe I am not alone in this.
2) In the Megathread, it will be easier for new players in future games to find and read before their first game.
3) You can edit your posts in the Megathread. (Theoretically you could edit it here too after the game is over, though that might confuse future readers into thinking you may have edited it during the game in violation of the rules.)



Right. Whereas I prefer to wait on acting until my leads are more solidified.

That said, we're just under halfway through D1 and a number of players have yet to post much. Would you say it is now fair to start pressuring them? (While I might quibble about D1 lynch pressure, "This person isn't even posting" is a D1 lynch reason I can get behind.)

On that note, let's see... @QTesseract can you please post? I'm not even asking for an analysis (though others might appreciate one), just any game post at all. In case you don't:

[X] Lynch QTesseract



Fair. If, per above, the actual D1 lynch goes to an inactive, we'll have more info on D2.



That is how "informed scum" generally works, yes. (And if, somehow, they did not, that one Mafia would likely soon inform the others via their faction chat - assuming they have one, which they almost always do.)



It's been theorized that corrupted/glitch CPUs might be a third faction. Or, if the humans are the scum, who says the humans are all united - or aware of one another? You could, for instance, have normal human players out to beat the CPU, and then the system's developers trying to purge everyone. I could see a Flynn-like case where the original developer wanted to reclaim "his" property, as fluff for what is mechanically a serial killer.

I could go on and on, but I should stop there. To avoid a repeat of past miscommunications, I disclaim: this is just speculation, at Rem's direct request for speculation. This is not privileged information.
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My grandparents arrived earlier today. I'll try to finish catching up on the thread and become informed in terms of voting / posting tommorow, sorry.
 
May be a little late but seeing as there is no more leading information to justify this or pursue it:

[X] Null Winged Cat

That being said so far we've seen everyone at least once have a post from our respective player pool and I point out that the rules state "Lynches happen at the end of the Day and are determined by the plurality of votes, not majority hammer." (Sorry felt lazy and didn't want to qoute) does this mean if only one person votes for a lynch does that lynch happen anyway? Or would the act of not voting for anyone count as a plurality itself? This is something I should have asked much earlier but the thought didn't occur to me.

 
Cyricubed said:
May be a little late but seeing as there is no more leading information to justify this or pursue it:

[X] Null Winged Cat

That being said so far we've seen everyone at least once have a post from our respective player pool and I point out that the rules state "Lynches happen at the end of the Day and are determined by the plurality of votes, not majority hammer." (Sorry felt lazy and didn't want to qoute) does this mean if only one person votes for a lynch does that lynch happen anyway? Or would the act of not voting for anyone count as a plurality itself? This is something I should have asked much earlier but the thought didn't occur to me.
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Plurality rules typically would require an active no lynch vote to not have a lynch. If everyone but one didn't vote then the one voter would get his way.
 
Wait, why is there discussion on why lynching is almost always a good idea? haven't we had this debate every single game that had more than 6 people without fail?
 
Cyricubed said:
That being said so far we've seen everyone at least once have a post from our respective player pool and I point out that the rules state "Lynches happen at the end of the Day and are determined by the plurality of votes, not majority hammer." (Sorry felt lazy and didn't want to qoute) does this mean if only one person votes for a lynch does that lynch happen anyway? Or would the act of not voting for anyone count as a plurality itself? This is something I should have asked much earlier but the thought didn't occur to me.
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If their isn't an active vote of specifically "No Lynch" (Or another vote variant like "End This Madness") with a greater number of votes then the individual with the largest number of "Lynch" votes at the time of day's end that player will be eliminated. Even if they have only one vote.
 
I wake up and three new pages of appeared.
Stuff always happens when I am asleep...
I'll probally be silent for a bit while I try to catch up.
Or atleast, my babbeling will be less informed.
 
Okay my theory is that Bowser will be SK. The two mario bros are scum mason, peach might be arsonist and now I am just making up stuff. Insight from looking at smk wiki characters.
 
I Hina you need to look at the character and ask yourself
"Would this character act sportmanlike?"
Mario (probally) would
Luigi would
Peach would
Etc.
Bowser wouldn't
Waluigi wouldn't
Wario wouldn't
Etc.
Some are unclear, I think Donkey king would be 'sportsman' like
But, who knows?
...Wel ComieTurtle does...
 
Lizard Knight said:
I Hina you need to look at the character and ask yourself
"Would this character act sportmanlike?"
Mario (probally) would
Luigi would
Peach would
Etc.
Bowser wouldn't
Waluigi wouldn't
Wario wouldn't
Etc.
Some are unclear, I think Donkey king would be 'sportsman' like
But, who knows?
...Wel ComieTurtle does...
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You are looking at this the wrong way, I know for a fact.

Who did the humans pick. That's the question. That is the only question. It's quite clever of Comi, actually. Is Mario scum? Well, did a human pick him? We can't just assume the evil characters will be scum.
 
Terrabrand said:
Who did the humans pick. That's the question. That is the only question. It's quite clever of Comi, actually. Is Mario scum? Well, did a human pick him? We can't just assume the evil characters will be scum.
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I actually didn't think of it that way, but that's brilliant. I really suspected that Comi would just leave key characters (Mario probably, Peach, Boo, etc.) out in order to give the scum room to safe claim... but if the humans picked the characters, then they get an inherent safeclaim. It's a clever little trick.

(Also since Rikimaru chose to rate and not engage, guess my vote stays where it is, tentative to Q contributing.)

Also... something is bothering me, but I think it'll probably have to wait 'til tomorrow to figure out what exactly it is.
 
Broken Base said:
I actually didn't think of it that way, but that's brilliant. I really suspected that Comi would just leave key characters (Mario probably, Peach, Boo, etc.) out in order to give the scum room to safe claim... but if the humans picked the characters, then they get an inherent safeclaim. It's a clever little trick.

(Also since Rikimaru chose to rate and not engage, guess my vote stays where it is, tentative to Q contributing.)

Also... something is bothering me, but I think it'll probably have to wait 'til tomorrow to figure out what exactly it is.
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I am rather out of my depth in terms of lore and stuff, so it's more me just trying to work out what type of things would be evidence of scum for m.k.
 
Terrabrand said:
You are looking at this the wrong way, I know for a fact.

Who did the humans pick. That's the question. That is the only question. It's quite clever of Comi, actually. Is Mario scum? Well, did a human pick him? We can't just assume the evil characters will be scum.
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Actually, I was just kind of taking this as colloquialisms and hyperbole, but overall the way this post is framed and worded, you seem really positive about this. Can you break down why for me?

(It's possible that with my WOT and Riki response and research I missed some comments that indicate such, if so be patient with me)
 
Broken Base said:
Actually, I was just kind of taking this as colloquialisms and hyperbole, but overall the way this post is framed and worded, you seem really positive about this. Can you break down why for me?

(It's possible that with my WOT and Riki response and research I missed some comments that indicate such, if so be patient with me)
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Accepting the risk that people assume I am scum for this, my character is one I would not expect sportsmanlike behavior from and was on Lizard Knight's list of unsportsmanlike characters. Ergo, the assumption that scummy in-universe characters will necessarily be scum in a mafia sense is wrong, given I town.

(I accept the risk because I find it more important people recognize that a Mario claim may well be scum and that if we have somone claiming town power role as a scummy character they mght be legit)
 
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