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Mafio Party

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So. Okay. I'm really not in the mood to do a war of words with Nictis, so I guess it's time to be real here and just... cut this off at the pass.

Terrabrand said:
I'll probably get less paranoid about the role type once I'm in a game where someone else is one.
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Hi!

So basically, I'm a lyncher. My goal was to get Q lynched. Which I accomplished, yay! Kind of an uphill miracle victory I accomplished due to town inertia but it's like... I'll take it, you know? I did try hard. And that's... all I needed to do to win. You have so many reasons to trust me right now, it's surreal. My character claim. I can break down my play and how it focused on Q a lot if you'd like, you also know I'm an NPC at most, unless scum have a NPC miller scum or something. You also know that the idea of there even being an SK is fully speculation, even IF I assume that Derp is telling the truth, something I don't believe, Mafia could have had a double-kill that they chose to use because this situation is so fucking desperate for them due to their garbage luck. This actually makes perfect sense in the context that we don't have a game, if the games are indeed maf sided (and at this point either they are or its QM fiat) And they chose derp because... I don't know I mean I don't believe the claim for a reason. Cheese redirected them or something.

That having been said, I do kind of want to help the town. Like... given how much the PCs almost screwed me over I'd kind of rather they die than town does. My reads are garbage often this game I guess, but I do kinda want to lend a hand, in pressure and votes if nothing else. Which is part of the reason I'm chiming in now, because while I doubt that letmebefree got my alignment, I got his and he's a CPU. I'd deeply recommend getting off him and hunting the actual scum.

The only logical explanation that I can see for lynching either of us now is if you think we're some weird dual-SK team thing or Lyncher-SK combo, both of which are just silly, and the former makes LMBF linking the two of us even more absurd in my eyes. I'd have yelled so hard at him not to in the QT.

And ALSO why the fuck are we even going for anti-town PRs right now. There's 2-3 (but given everything almost definitely 2) PCs left. Look, let me say this. If you lynch both PCs and the game is still going, go ahead and lynch me, because clearly something fucked up is going on, and maybe my lynch can do something. I don't know. Like the PCs dying is all I care about anymore anyway, which is part of why I'm saying this, because I don't want us wasting time wagoning LMBF when it's in nobody's interest except the scum's, I know Nictis isn't going to change his mind without me claiming, and I just... why would I engage in a wall of words when I've won when I can do this instead?
 
Bowser wanting Mario to be lynched (Aka ruining his reputation)? Makes sense.
Now we only need Broken Base to abduct me.
But...to clarify, What is your faction BB? are you really a miller or are you NPC and the miller was redherring So you could take Mario down?
 
Pawn Lelouch said:
Really? I could've sworn people were worried about the miller status messing the check up if BB was chosen.
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I think it makes sense. If BB is a miller, it makes sense that she is consistently a miller. I think it would be stranger if she were treated as an NPC by one power and as a CPU by another (barring circumstances such as a power explicitly overriding immunities to investigations).

I'll defer to players with more experience on this, though.

Broken Base said:
unless scum have a NPC miller scum or something.
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I'll confess that I have my suspicions as to this. Not enough to push for a lynch, but if you were an NPC from the start, it seems strange that you could claim, "I'm a CPU who mills as an NPC" and not "I'm a standard NPC who just wants to survive."

---

Oh, and I almost missed this because I fail reading comprehension: It seems Archeo Lumiere got the bone dice that were meant to go to Rikimaru, but can't use them on account of being out of the game.
 
Broken Base said:
So. Okay. I'm really not in the mood to do a war of words with Nictis, so I guess it's time to be real here and just... cut this off at the pass.
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This was my big reason for suspecting you to be hostile actually, to steal from my notes...
Broken Base/Bowser: Definitely not a PC, claims to be an NPC Miller (Which raises some interesting questions) but matches up perfectly with how Mario/QTesseract's power works. Potentially a malicious NPC Sleeping God. (Absolute refusal to see how QTesseract was not scum is working against them here)
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I was definitely off on the mark, but the way you kept trying to get us to stop arguing against the lynch rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't bring it up before because when I checked you were acting against WC Day 1.

So why shouldn't we kill LMBF? You were a Lyncher, but what is he?

[x] Lynch LetMeBeFree
 
Rem said:
I'll confess that I have my suspicions as to this. Not enough to push for a lynch, but if you were an NPC from the start, it seems strange that you could claim, "I'm a CPU who mills as an NPC" and not "I'm a standard NPC who just wants to survive."
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Because honestly I wanted to take a gamble. I bounced between a NPC claim if I was about to be lynched or the miller claim and ended up going with the miller claim because I thought it'd get me more cred, or at least excuse an NPC hit. I had no idea what kind of roles the NPCs typically were at the time, but given mine I had reason to assume they were anti-town. It was a bit of a risk to associate with them, and I had no idea if the claim would be bought or not.

I mean I could do that as an NPC SK too, you know. So your objection only makes sense if I'm Mafia-Miller-Mason(?), which is a logically bizarre and nearly incoherent claim.

Nictis said:
So why shouldn't we kill LMBF? You were a Lyncher, but what is he?
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How would I know more than I told you? I assume he's exactly what he claims to be, since I know he's CPU. Like, look at the options I just gave you. Either we're dual-SKs (which is a silly concept, and even if Derp is completely telling the truth there not being an SK makes just as much sense), lyncher-scum (in which case I was explicitly lied to or I'm lying right now for no reason, despite wanting the PCs dead), or... I'm not seeing a non-lyncher-town option hit me up Nictis. Unless you think we're both scum and my behavior here is just bizarre.

Like, seriously? Just... kill the two PCs. LMBF doesn't deserve to be lynched, but if you lynch them you can lynch me and him. Then the game should end even if we are scum. Chasing after the malicious NPC that you don't know exists for sure when you KNOW two scum exist is dumb and silly.
 
Like let's look at the situation.

Yesterday, Town lost a rolecop and a mason. Last night they lost an inventor and your other cop. Scum are going to keep being able to NK. With a couple exceptions, we have no idea how many of these other claims are trustworthy. You're in a good position because of the scum's garbage luck, but not so good that I'd burn 4 (at least) deaths over something that you don't even know exists. Because only my alignment is going to flip if you lynch me, and if you trust me you have literally no reason to think LMBF is anything but CPU.
 
Mason Group with a Neutral Lyncher and a Town seems rather unlikely. Mason group of two anti-Town neutrals seems considerably more likely, and why would I trust you when you say he's good just because you already won? Basic decency is to not sell out your buddy, rather than do the whole "I got mine, so piss off" thing.

Plus with my power being specifically set to crush your castle with him in it... If you were Town I might still be debating it being a mason v. mason setup, but since you're not Town... I'm finding myself rather skeptical.
 
Nictis said:
Mason Group with a Neutral Lyncher and a Town seems rather unlikely. Mason group of two anti-Town neutrals seems considerably more likely, and why would I trust you when you say he's good just because you already won? Basic decency is to not sell out your buddy, rather than do the whole "I got mine, so piss off" thing.
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I don't see what's so unlikely about it. We were just talking about scum masons earlier and this isn't that far an extension from that. These games have bizarre and outlandish roles all the time, that's an inherent part of SV meta. And I think talking about unlikely roles when we're in a game where Peach and Cyri exist seems like a pretty weak argument. And like... I also didn't have to say anything? That isn't selling out my buddy at all. Let LMBF defend himself and intervene if necessary? I'm not up for a lynch. I could have just tried to argue with you on logical grounds rather than outright set myself up as anti-town? I could have done a whole bunch of shit I didn't do because I thought this was simpler. And if my tone seems different it's because I feel like you're being unreasonably stubborn and it's frustrating.

But let's say that I'm in a neutral group with a SK. Let's say I know he's an SK via PM. I think these are two decent-sized assumptions (most particularly the first) but I'll accept them. Let's say I then decide to go to bat for the SK. I could, you know, just accuse you of being a scum mason and lying. Yet I'm not doing that. Because I don't think you're scum. Because I have the town interest's at heart, and in that case it is directly against my interest to cover for an SK. It's to save the town from burning a lynch, potentially two, on players that the party knows are town. Also why would I say that you can lynch us if both scum die? Like, the SK would be reliant on the scum dying too, so it's essentially suicide. If I'm SK right now, or backing one, I'd be pushing as far away from "Okay, lynch the scum and then you can lynch us" as humanly possible given the current scenario. That's just silly.

Nictis said:
Plus with my power being specifically set to crush your castle with him in it... If you were Town I might still be debating it being a mason v. mason setup, but since you're not Town... I'm finding myself rather skeptical.
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I have no idea why yourpower flavor would say that and it's kind of impossible to argue against because I have no clue what it means. If you believe I'm a lyncher, then why would it want to kill me? If it wants to kill me because I'm Bowser, that could be the case regardless of my alignment. If it wants to kill me because I'm a lyncher, that would be the case regardless of LMBF's alignment. If it wants to kill me because I'm an SK, that opens up so many problems. I'm not even an explicitly anti-town role; I'm neutral at most. It could also be pure flavor, if I'm reading you right. It could also be... I recall how you were the one who talked about how there could be any number of explanations for the N3 no-kill in a situation where we had specific evidence (incorrect, but specific) evidence that Q was the culprit for the potential kill 2 nights ago and you cited the fact that there are an endless amount of possibilities for why that is the case. That is the same here too, only here at least there is no direct evidence, only circumstantial at best that's up for interpretation.
 
Like... You've claimed you're neutral. Why would we think your mason buddy is town?

Nictis had a point; his power seems made just to take out lmbf. It'd be a bit odd if a town power was just to screw over another town's only power.
 
Nanimani said:
Like... You've claimed you're neutral. Why would we think your mason buddy is town?
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If I didn't have assurance that LMBF was town, I would not be doing any of this. I would not be spending the morning of the first good day I've had in like... a week, stressing myself out arguing against a tide and just letting myself get more and more frustrated. I would not just randomly do that without good fucking reason. Like I'm honestly tempted to be suggesting extreme measures on my end right now because honestly I'm tired and frustrated and really don't want to argue anymore. I just want us to hunt scum. I will guarantee with whatever color text you like that LMBF is not PC. I will guarantee that he is not a threat to you. I will guarantee he is not SK. I will guarantee all sorts of things that don't involve us following up on a dead lead that will go nowhere and give the PC a free kill when I genuinely don't want them to win.

Like. Seriously. If you hit two scum. I actively offer to for both of us to be lynched, because the game should be over. That is all I'm asking. LMBF doesn't win that way, if he's SK. If you want to argue that I am trying to get an SK to win, why on Earth would I suggest something actively counterproductive to those goals?
 
Broken Base said:
That isn't selling out my buddy at all.
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That's what I'm saying. Why should I believe you when you're claiming he's good when I wouldn't expect you to have sold him out if he wasn't?

As for the 'Flavor' bit... No, it doesn't specifically say I can walk over and pry open your puny castle like a tin can and splatter your son over the ramparts. It does however say that it bypasses all protections, and it does let me do exactly that. Now, here's the list of people it is set for...
Nani's Target (Variable)
Pawn's target (Variable)
LMBF (Permanent NK immunity, in a mason that is known to oppose Town Goals)
Derpmind (One use protection)

Which one seems to be the most likely to be the intended target here?

I never said I thought he was a Serial Killer, I said I thought he was Anti-Town. Why? Because the other person in his group is anti-Town. Hmmmmm...
 
You say you were explicitly told of his alignment. I was not told of my brother's alignment, but I figured an infiltrator in a two man mason didn't make sense. Was your son told of your alignment? Because that would seem to be pointed against you fairly strongly.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for things to be arranged the way you're saying they are. Since you're not a sleeping God I'm assuming the gladiator thing just picked the top two posters.

I was granted the ability to kill someone who normally could not be killed, who is in a group with a Lyncher who killed our rolecop, and you're trying to say that despite the various things pointing to him being anti-Town like you, he's a Town and we should let him live because the Lyncher role got told he was Town.
 
So I just caught up with today's posts. I can confirm that I bubbled myself with Cyric last night. The idea was to serve as a pseudo-bodyguard, taking the hit myself if he got attacked. In hindsight I should have considered that as a confirmed agent of targeting chaos with a confirmed scum kill the scum probably don't want me around, so I won't be doing that again as a means to try to protect someone.

This does tell us one thing though: I was scum's real target last night. Sucks that we don't have a lookout, but at least now we know who an attempted target was.

As for what's going on today... you got me @Broken Base. Well done bamboozling town and acting as one of our leaders. Since you've already won and expressed your opinion on scum in this game though, I'm inclined to believe/hope you actually intend to help town, if only because you've been so effective as a leader so far (even if for your own nefarious purposes) and because frankly we need the numbers if we're gonna win. And I think you're right about Derpmind here. They weren't transported, so I doubt they'd be a priority target. On top of that, what they claimed targeted them sounded so similar to the cheating/hacking player speculation someone mentioned a while ago that it's just too on the nose. I just don't buy it.

[X] Lynch Derpmind
 
You know what's annoying though? I actually considered it, brought it up to see how people felt about the idea.
Nanimani said:
So uh. Given we have someone else protected, that throws my ironclad animosity towards QTesseract into doubt.

And now that I'm actually looking at his claim, like... BB's occasional quirks in the arguments seem a bit off with that, to me. This is where I'd edit my notes if I had enough time in this game to take them, but right now, I just want to propose a theory that popped into my head, and those who are able to go over posts/check notes can give their thoughts on the likelihood.

NPC is third party, not survivor. Probably includes one or two, but... Well. Executioner Bowser.
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But when no one really talked about it, I just shrugged and decided I was probably just paranoid.
 
Nictis said:
That's what I'm saying. Why should I believe you when you're claiming he's good when I wouldn't expect you to have sold him out if he wasn't?
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I wouldn't have done this if it wasn't. I wouldn't have done anything like this. You don't have to believe me or whatever, but I am not in the mental state to be having this discussion to the point that I almost want to ask for a modkill just to get this experience for me to end, because if I respond it massively increases stress, and if I DON'T respond I know you all are going to lynch LMBF and THAT will massively increase stress. I am in a massively stressful RL situation right now that I didn't expect to be in when I started this game. Joining this game was a massive mistake on my part not due to anything ComiTurtle or you all have done, you've been great, but for my own personal reasons. That is probably fucking my tone up and making me more irritable and potentially less persuasive. I'm sorry about that. I don't think anybody is going to actually take pity on me because my life fucking sucks and I mentally am not in a state where I can do this anymore. That isn't your responsibility. I'm typing this out because I have no filter because I'm close to breaking psychologically and I need to be typing it somewhere and I'm not going to get myself modkilled because of my own pettiness it helps no one.

I would ask for a replacement, but that would not actually resolve anything and would be massively unfair to any replacement that actually replaced into a 43 page game. There is no winning scenario for me here. There is no "Oh hey, here's the escape hatch." There's no scenario where this ends that's fair to both me and the town, including LMBF, except him not being lynched. So I know that regardless of if I take a break, I'm going to come back and argue some more. And argue about PR speculation, which I fucking suck at. Again. So I'm going to let LMBF down and get town lynched and I honestly just feel like typing gibberish here I'm so frustrated and I know I shouldn't be, I'm arguing for someone that I know doesn't even share my alignment. But I just don't want him lynched. He doesn't deserve that. When your arguments relate to "I have this power and it connects to LMBF" something I can't argue with simply because I don't have access to GM motivations or what the scum powerset is and if it in some way combines or contorts with that. And "You're anti-town which makes LMBF anti-town" despite the fact that games on the site inherently have unorthodox role sets and combinations. I can go through past games and make a list. I can't read the GMs mind. I get that past performance is not indicator of future results per se, it merely shows precedent. But I don't know what grounds you even want me to argue this point. I'd do literally anything, entertain any argument, make any offer outside my own lynch (not for my sake given my state at this point, but I doubt LMBF would want someone else to be lynched for his).


Cheese4Every1 said:
As for what's going on today... you got me @Broken Base. Well done bamboozling town and acting as one of our leaders. Since you've already won and expressed your opinion on scum in this game though, I'm inclined to believe/hope you actually intend to help town, if only because you've been so effective as a leader so far (even if for your own nefarious purposes) and because frankly we need the numbers if we're gonna win.
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I mean I appreciate the sentiment, I feel like I played a garbage game especially now that I'm thrown into this situation, which I blame no one for except myself. I'm just so tired and having a literal mental breakdown over a game I've already won. Like honestly I probably shouldn't even be posting this but my self-control is shot because I'm freaking out out of guilt, and frustration, and sadness and shame and a whole bunch of other stuff. If there would be anyway out, that people wouldn't hate me for, I'd take it in a heartbeat. But here we are.
 
Look. At the current time, acknowledge that lmbf is the best lynch from our point of view.

Then, if you don't want him to get lynched, look at the others, and decide who looks more suspicious.

Do you agree with Terrabrand's list of who is proven? Why or why not?
If you do, then it has to be either two of the selection of: The NPC claims, me, and Pawn. However, absent extreme bussing, I don't think it would make sense for me and Pawn to both be maf, so that narrows it down to three possible combinations.

If you have a better idea of who the two (I'm assuming four. Three would be too little, five would be too much) remaining maf are, say who, say why, and provide evidence. It'd take something big to change our minds, but there could be something big.
 
Nanimani said:
You know what's annoying though? I actually considered it, brought it up to see how people felt about the idea.

But when no one really talked about it, I just shrugged and decided I was probably just paranoid.
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I considered it but I thought that it was a bit too obvious of a play from an executioner.



And BB please relax. Ultimately this is a game, if things are bad on your end and this is an unneeded source of stress you shouldn't play. Nobody would hate you for asking for a modkill or replacement in this kind of situation.
 
Well, I thought I'd take a look to see which of the two didn't vote for Winged Cat, but... neither of them voted for the PC. On the other lynch, Nani bought into the Mario lynch, and Pawn was advocating for the lynch of the Mason in order to prove me (I still don't get why we didn't just have Cyricube check both masons to see if one of the groups are lying) but I can't really fault either of them for this?

So between the unnoticed Doctor being scum, and the Jailor who jailed the obvious scum being scum... I'm fairly split, but I'm going to go with...

[x] Lynch Nanimani
 
Hum
@Rem you can contact Cyrocubed right?
Would it be paranoid to ask that you check Cheeses claim with Cyri
To be clear, check If Cyri got bubbeld. I It is probally paranoia but Nice to be sure.
 
For what it's worth BB, I'm sorry to hear that. If for some reason there's anything a bunch of weirdos on the internet can do to help or offer support I'm sure a number of us would be here for you.

Also to throw my 2 cents in on LMBF, I feel like I should believe B.B. on this. What incentive does she have to lie at this point? She's already won. Plus, as a transporter I admit that I have some ideas on how I could make use of a townie who's night immune, so I really hope they're actually town.
 
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