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M&M Webcomic

M&M

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Lop tries to teach himself to draw from scratch and also script a story about a clown and a mummy (updates once or twice a week)
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-faces are hard
-perspective is hard
-should have taken art classes
-drawing should be done with a pencil that hasn't been found in an abandoned truck
-inking should be done with a pen that hasn't been acquired at the dollar general
-must practice practice practice
 
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    • ​
    -bandages are fun to draw
    -faces are still difficult
    -perspective can be helped with references, but not if you have bad eyes
    -there is no such thing as on-model if you haven't established the actual model
    -there is a correct way to script a comic but the youtube tutorial never got around to telling me what it is
    -don't rush the action! (whoops)
    -I'm going to have to eventually learn how to shade
    -practice practice practice
     
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    • Talking My Language
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    • ​
    -shading should be done relative to the light source, and also to accent details, and also...aw shit, this is going to take awhile
    -If you use a reference be careful that the final image does not look exactly like the reference
    -inking requires a steady hand, which I do not have
    -the devil's in the details, but if you can't do details, don't sweat it! Go back and add them later (much later)
     
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    • How Long?
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    • ​
    -Shading is not an effective tactic to cover up a lack of technical ability
    -different poses are fun! But difficult...
    -Perhaps text should be added after-the-fact with a computer program, such as real comics do...
    -Cheap pencil marks are hard to erase
    -establish a standard character model already dammit
     
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    • The Brother Tree
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    • ​
    -It takes 500 hours to even be remotely close to grasping any kind of artistic skill
    -Perspective is still very difficult
    -Shading looks nice
    -Consistency in character models is key, and something that will take much, much practice to eventually get the hang of
    -Dialogue should have word bubbles, ya know, like in real comics
     
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    • I think you already know that the art for this comic isn't the best, but what's quite interesting is seeing how much improvement there was just in a few pages. Comparing the first and last pages (at the time of writing this) shows a marked difference in anatomy, facial expressions and details. The first page may not have been anything special, but I would say that the quality is already at the point where it would function as a web-comic. This on its own is enough reason to continue watching this thread as I'm very interested to watch as you continue to improve.

    Story-wise, the clown annoys me. I'm sure that the characterization is SUPPOSED to be ignorant and slightly annoying, I just find it difficult to believe that he's survived for a year on his own. That being said, there's obviously something strange going on with him and the mummy character is shaping up to be interesting (I'm a sucker for 'out of time' characters).

    Overall, 6/10, did enjoy. Lets see where this goes.
     
    The Greater Fool
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    • ​
    -For facial expressions, head shapes and different head perspectives, practice like the devil has your number
    -There's a reason letterers are so important in comics, they deserve more respect!
    -Sloppy penmenship can be improved by practicing, but you have to cut down on caffeine intact or you're gonna have a bad time
    -Side profiles are difficult
     
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    • I wasn't able to crank out as many updates this week because I've started a 200 hour certification course for work, but I'm still going to try and update as much as possible. Luckily the 200 hours doesn't literally mean 200, so I have high hopes I'll be able to resume my comfortable pace of posting panels
     
    Questions
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    • ​
    -Pens with small nubs are easily broken
    -Pens with really small nubs aren't so good for dialogue
    -In fact, use different pens for different aspects of the panels
    -There is a rhythm and pace to paneling that is not easily mastered
    -visual mediums play by their own rules and I hope I learn them someday
    Had to rush this update because I'm still in the middle of two weeks of work hell, hoping to get through it and resume normal posting schedule as well as spending a little more time on the process. But for now, just wanted to get something out so I didn't fall out of practice
     
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    • Enough
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    • ​
    -When it comes to pseudo-manga style, it's all about the eyes! So I gotta figure out how to draw them...
    -Shading is still tricky.
    -You know who's a really good shader? Mike Mignola. Mannn, that guy's the king of shading....
    -Had fun with a thin nub pen, time to go back to the regular nub pen (except for details)
     
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    • Memories Part 1
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    • ​
    -shading is important but I still don't quite grasp how to do it correctly
    -It's all about the eyes...gotta practice eyes
    -perspective is extremely difficult
    -How the hell do you draw hair
    -How do you draw clothing
    -I must practice both
     
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    • Memories Part 2
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    • ​
    -Drawing big characters is difficult
    -Drawing small characters is difficult
    -There seems to be a specific size of panel that I'm must adept at
    -I need to practice big and small characters
    -Two page updates are a natural space constraint that must be adapted to
    -For fuck's sake I need to figure out how to draw head shapes consistently
    -Shading your secrets still elude me...
     
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    • This is quite cool, watching you incrementally improve . I would suggest you do thing in layered steps.
    1) script/plan the page so you know what you want to draw more precisely before commiting it to paper. This includes panel shapes and sizes, basic characters you want in the various scenes, the text/dialogue, and what ever notes and thoughts that pop up into your head at the time.
    2) rough out what is going on, but only basic shapes and poses. This helps you work out how things are.set up and how they are in the environment before messing with the details.
    3) treat the background as separate entity instead trying to draw it around the characters and props or vice versa. If you can, add them in digitally after the fact. This makes your characters pop and the world they walk around feel more real.
    4) add in the details, then basic inking on the.lines then erase the pencils. This takes time, your not gonna be as fast inking as you are sketching, so don't try, be patient.
    5) Shading should be.simple and.consistent don't push to initially and practice on something you don't care.about as a.finished product. Doesn't matter if it's best, it just has to fit and be.consistent with the light.sources in the environment.
    6) hold off on lettering until you can scan it in. Take.It from a.former drafter; doing fine lettering by hand is a.birch and half. Use some open source stuff like Gimp, paint.net, or some such to plug in the text and speech bubbles. Nothing is more.annoying than frantically erasing a.shit ton of text because you mi ss spaced at the beginning.
     
    johnwedd said:
    This is quite cool, watching you incrementally improve . I would suggest you do thing in layered steps.
    1) script/plan the page so you know what you want to draw more precisely before commiting it to paper. This includes panel shapes and sizes, basic characters you want in the various scenes, the text/dialogue, and what ever notes and thoughts that pop up into your head at the time.
    2) rough out what is going on, but only basic shapes and poses. This helps you work out how things are.set up and how they are in the environment before messing with the details.
    3) treat the background as separate entity instead trying to draw it around the characters and props or vice versa. If you can, add them in digitally after the fact. This makes your characters pop and the world they walk around feel more real.
    4) add in the details, then basic inking on the.lines then erase the pencils. This takes time, your not gonna be as fast inking as you are sketching, so don't try, be patient.
    5) Shading should be.simple and.consistent don't push to initially and practice on something you don't care.about as a.finished product. Doesn't matter if it's best, it just has to fit and be.consistent with the light.sources in the environment.
    6) hold off on lettering until you can scan it in. Take.It from a.former drafter; doing fine lettering by hand is a.birch and half. Use some open source stuff like Gimp, paint.net, or some such to plug in the text and speech bubbles. Nothing is more.annoying than frantically erasing a.shit ton of text because you mi ss spaced at the beginning.
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    This....thank you, I'm been basically blundering in the dark with a few youtube tutorials, but this is so much more helpful and specific. Fuck, thank you, I can't wait to try these out with the next update
     
    Lop said:
    This....thank you, I'm been basically blundering in the dark with a few youtube tutorials, but this is so much more helpful and specific. Fuck, thank you, I can't wait to try these out with the next update
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    glad I could be.somewhat helpful. Just remember, always save a.backup when working digitally, and break things down to steps. Lots of tutorials are focused on perfecting the individual steps and gloss over the whole process, not usually a problem as everybody assumes that the steps are.obvious. Considering it's done my veteran artist who live.by these steps they don't think about them it's forgivable. However, if you start doing the fundamental steps early, you save yourself so much heartache.
     
    A Walk in the Woods
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    • ​
    Bit of a rush job this update since I've had such a busy couple weeks, but I did want to test out some of the advice I got. Next week I should be able to spend more time on the update.
    (All of Johnwedd's advice turned out to be genius)
    -Plotting out panels first with faint outlines is the way to go!
    -Separating background and foreground is a bit of a challenge since I'm drawing traditionally. Perhaps drawing and uploading the background first, then going back and drawing in characters and then uploading a second time would work? And then combining them using gimp? For now, I'm just using thick pens for characters and thin pens for backgrounds
    -Speaking of gimp, it's quite the program! But I'm having trouble figuring out how to import fonts and edit in speech bubbles, so for now, it's 3d paint.
    -And 3d paint has shitty speechbubbles, so those will come later
    -Also if you don't use speech bubbles, dialogue can be confusing, so, I'll have to figure that out soon...
    -Still working on practicing shading...
     
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    • I am so glad you found my stuff helpful. The real trick is to break everything down into easily digestible pieces to work through. You can have your cake and eat it to, you just need to do it one bite at a time.

    and gimp is open source, so it has the same issue a lot of high end open source software has, function over form; and then some more function just in case. You get an extremely powerful and versatile tool.that puts a lot of paid software to shame, downside is that it's not precisely noobie freindly; this has chased off a lot potential users dispite being just if not more powerful than photoshop.

    Www.gimp.org has tutorials, like, good ones. Keep away from the more professionals; you don't need to learn python or Perl just tweak your drawings.
    Just get a good enough handle on the software to be.confident with it, not profeceint. Confident, perfect is the enemy of good enough; if you are confident navigating the basics of the software, you are half way to making it your willing bitch.

    after you got that down, don't sit down and try one of those "full 20 hour virtual college course" type tutorials. No, that is for when you want to do more than just make your comics look good and.have fun. It would be like going through full culinary graduate program because you wanted to make better pancakes at home. It'll do the trick, but it's overkill and missing the point.

    Tr y this guy

    It'll show you a bunch of neat thing you can do with gimp that you can use to play with new ideas and really just enjoy the stuff you can do. It's art, it's a hobby, and if your not having fun, then you're doing it wrong. :)

    In the topic of YouTube and shadeing/coloring techniques, watch this guy. It's not that advanced and silly to think of; but I'll be damned if it doesn't demonstrate coloring and shading techniques in a fun and strait forward way.
    (Plus, coloring books are awesome, fight me)

    Edit: Holy duck I forgot the.most.important thing. That was.a great page and showed everything you've.learned this far it is beautiful! You keep going.bro, you are doing great!
     
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    johnwedd said:
    I am so glad you found my stuff helpful. The real trick is to break everything down into easily digestible pieces to work through. You can have your cake and eat it to, you just need to do it one bite at a time.

    and gimp is open source, so it has the same issue a lot of high end open source software has, function over form; and then some more function just in case. You get an extremely powerful and versatile tool.that puts a lot of paid software to shame, downside is that it's not precisely noobie freindly; this has chased off a lot potential users dispite being just if not more powerful than photoshop.

    Www.gimp.org has tutorials, like, good ones. Keep away from the more professionals; you don't need to learn python or Perl just tweak your drawings.
    Just get a good enough handle on the software to be.confident with it, not profeceint. Confident, perfect is the enemy of good enough; if you are confident navigating the basics of the software, you are half way to making it your willing bitch.

    after you got that down, don't sit down and try one of those "full 20 hour virtual college course" type tutorials. No, that is for when you want to do more than just make your comics look good and.have fun. It would be like going through full culinary graduate program because you wanted to make better pancakes at home. It'll do the trick, but it's overkill and missing the point.

    Tr y this guy

    It'll show you a bunch of neat thing you can do with gimp that you can use to play with new ideas and really just enjoy the stuff you can do. It's art, it's a hobby, and if your not having fun, then you're doing it wrong. :)

    In the topic of YouTube and shadeing/coloring techniques, watch this guy. It's not that advanced and silly to think of; but I'll be damned if it doesn't demonstrate coloring and shading techniques in a fun and strait forward way.
    (Plus, coloring books are awesome, fight me)

    Edit: Holy duck I forgot the.most.important thing. That was.a great page and showed everything you've.learned this far it is beautiful! You keep going.bro, you are doing great!
    Click to expand...
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    I regret I have but one like to give for this advice :D I'm binging the tutorials now, I'm kind of starting to understand why artists are always halfway between ecstatically excited and completely drained, this shit is amazing
     
    Lop said:
    I regret I have but one like to give for this advice :D I'm binging the tutorials now, I'm kind of starting to understand why artists are always halfway between ecstatically excited and completely drained, this shit is amazing
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    why do you think Stan Lee always had that tired but happy smile of his. Steve ditko, and McFarlane also had that "good morning, I just now got my coffee" look.

    just focus on learning and having fun in equal measure. Can't go wrong when you are having fun with it.
     
    Ok, this comic's starting to get an interesting plot. I still have no idea what's up with the clown though. I'm loving the sci-fi hints mixed with the high fantasy magic.
    You're continuing to improve on your artwork and it's interesting to see the difference even from the previous post. One thing I've noticed is that your arms often look quite weird, but you appear to be doing very well with the eye expressions now.

    In regards to the speech-bubbles, I don't think they're absolutely NEEDED. I'd recommend checking out XKCD, particularly the recent Emulation for a great example of how you can clearly make it understood when who's saying what in a conversation without a full bubble. Also note the different KIND of lines being used for the person vs the computer. Just using that and nothing else, you get a clear idea that the voices are very different. Of course, figuring out what kind of voice the character has, and then what line represents that voice, is up to you.

    Lastly, I second the recommendation for GIMP, although if that doesn't do it for you, Paint.NET is a bit more user friendly for windows users (although missing some really handy features). It really depends on what you feel more comfortable with and what tools you need.
     
    Admiral Kol said:
    Ok, this comic's starting to get an interesting plot. I still have no idea what's up with the clown though. I'm loving the sci-fi hints mixed with the high fantasy magic.
    You're continuing to improve on your artwork and it's interesting to see the difference even from the previous post. One thing I've noticed is that your arms often look quite weird, but you appear to be doing very well with the eye expressions now.

    In regards to the speech-bubbles, I don't think they're absolutely NEEDED. I'd recommend checking out XKCD, particularly the recent Emulation for a great example of how you can clearly make it understood when who's saying what in a conversation without a full bubble. Also note the different KIND of lines being used for the person vs the computer. Just using that and nothing else, you get a clear idea that the voices are very different. Of course, figuring out what kind of voice the character has, and then what line represents that voice, is up to you.

    Lastly, I second the recommendation for GIMP, although if that doesn't do it for you, Paint.NET is a bit more user friendly for windows users (although missing some really handy features). It really depends on what you feel more comfortable with and what tools you need.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Thank you for pointing out the arms, I'll definitely work on those now. And damn! A quick look at XKCD, that's actually...a simple yet effective way to indicate who's talking. I think I'll copy it until if and when I find another way, because it looks like the only way I'll get good speech bubbles is if I import transparent ones or use a semi-complex gimp circular tool
     
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