I've had a bit of a play. There's actually quite a lot to like in the game itself. The one on one combat for example - that's pretty fun though it seems I can't both cover and move effectively because the screen well, janks around a bit and doesn't work. The archery I sucked at for a while but seem to have got the hang of; headshotting is so OP it's not even funny.

But as a historian, this game...vexes me. There's a lot done right. Like the placement of shops in towns, the general architecture and map (the actual cartography and illustration is delightful) development, the beehive construction, the clothing (though the shoes are not nearly endowed enough in the toe department and it's stuff common from about the 12th to late 15th centuries not just the early 15th) - and the way people interact without Henry by going to the tavern and drinking and dicing at the end of the day. That's all wonderful.

However we then come to the elephant in the room. That this game could easily be so much better if the lead developer wasn't such an ass. Like, I want the Cumans to be humanized rather than well, the monsters we see. It wouldn't take much. I got to interact with the priest; I'd love it if he called out Henry on thinking and hating in the way he does - and if Sir Raditz would also do the same it would be so good. A bit more examination of the actual conflict would be so much more interesting and just a little more agency for Theresa, even just a couple of lines after her little questline would be so good. That and some Jews. That region in the Czech heartland? There were most definitely Jews there ffs. I want to see some.

And that's the problem with the game. It comes very close in a few aspects, but when we the player actually have to interact with people we lose out and there is no thought provoking challenge, no actual exploration of the history. And that's sad. Ironically it does portray some medieval attitudes fairly well, just not because of the gameplay. The small mindedness and racism? That's sadly pretty spot on.

Thanks Vavra. You took something that could have been great and shat on it.

Edit; This whole thing is crying out for a Christian Cameron-esque fanfic to actually make it historically accurate, and thus great.

Edit 2; That and the whole dropped halberds everywhere eating my PC. The guards drop them and they just pile up...
 
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Edit; This whole thing is crying out for a Christian Cameron-esque fanfic to actually make it historically accurate, and thus great.

Christian Cameron had a woman become a sellsword just fine in An Ill-Made Knight. There's even a black dude in it! The second book had a steppe nomad who joined William's merry band!

This is actually more historically accurate than Kingdom Come: "Jews what Jews?" Deliverance will ever be.
 
Christian Cameron had a woman become a sellsword just fine in An Ill-Made Knight. There's even a black dude in it! The second book had a steppe nomad who joined William's merry band!

This is actually more historically accurate than Kingdom Come: "Jews what Jews?" Deliverance will ever be.

I know. Just plowed through The Green Count again and I want him to write a game and all the things. Admittedly I'm glad Richard didn't actually do that much in the book because I don't particularly like him as a character but I definitely want to read more about Janet...

This may be the wrong thread. Unless we can start a petition to have him write and advise on a game? We could call it Actual History then!
 
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The game actually does acknowledge the existence of jews. There is a codex entry about Jews in the game. I'm guessing the game would have jewish npcs if we ever get to Prague.

That's not right though. There were Jews in places other than Prague at the time. IIRC something like 10% of Czech Jews lived in agrarian areas and they formed around 2-5% of the whole population. We should have seen some and there should have been some conversational mention at the least.

There is so much more than a codex entry portrays. The absence of many other ethnicities is understandable, though lametanble (More Turks actually portrayed as human for example). Like I would only really expect to see say, a Persian in Prague or maybe with a caravan or some such but Jews were a long standing and vibrant part of Czech society at all levels. A codex entry is not nearly enough.
 
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On the Cumans: yes it makes sense the people being raided and killed would think they're devils. Yes, this racism makes sense. If this game was set in 8th century Anatolia and you were some Byzantine peasant being oppressed by Arab raiders, this too would make sense.

But this is the 21st century where we can explore the "other" a lot better. If there was a quest where you meet and befriend a Cuman I'd be a lot more okay with it. Just because there IS racism does not mean you're off the hook and can fall back to "historical accuracy" excuse.

Also the Jews stuff above me.
 
On the Cumans: yes it makes sense the people being raided and killed would think they're devils. Yes, this racism makes sense. If this game was set in 8th century Anatolia and you were some Byzantine peasant being oppressed by Arab raiders, this too would make sense.

But this is the 21st century where we can explore the "other" a lot better. If there was a quest where you meet and befriend a Cuman I'd be a lot more okay with it. Just because there IS racism does not mean you're off the hook and can fall back to "historical accuracy" excuse.

Also the Jews stuff above me.

The closest the game comes is a quest where you go to find some Cumans stashed loot and have the choice to let him go at the end - There are also some conversation choices where you can RP Henry as a bit more accepting. Honestly though as you said that shouldn't really come from Henry. He has a pretty good reason to hate Cumans. But he needs to be called on it by others i.e. Sir Radzig and the Priest in Ushitz who's name I forget.
 
Rowling actually had a Jewish background character in the books. Kingdom Come doesn't manage even that.

Yeah Anthony Goldstein actually has lines. He is visibly present. There is a Golem perk in the game. That and the codex entry which btw I haven't yet got are literally the only references to Judaism in this whole damn game.

Edit; Found it. Hard to find.
 
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Can someone describe the Cumans in the game and their portrayal ?

They are absolutely depicted as orcs. Up, down, left, right: orcs. The only meaningful differences:

1) You can use their weapons proficiently, unlike most other games where Orc weapons are either unusable or come with really hefty penalties.
2) You can pretend to be one like reverse Bane. Nobody cares who you are when you put on the mask, even if they are close enough to see Henry's blue eyes peeking out.

Normally, I have a decent tolerance for racist subtext in games but like, KC:D takes the thin veneer and shaves a few more layers off of it. Someone mentioned that the plot was basically a nationalist fairy tale and I thought they might have been exaggerating, but their words (even as a non-native English speaker) were spot-on. Everyone who is native is Dudley Do-Right, everyone from outside is a complete piece of shit. It isn't even fantasy: it is a fairy tale. One of the characters in the game even fills the functional role of a fairy-fucking-godmother!

Other criticisms:
-Buggy as fuck.
-The standard save is malignant cancer.
-The controls could only be clunkier if they were made out of hastily-assembled Legos.
-Polearms are the closest thing to hacked on I've seen in a major release. They really wanted swords to be the centerpiece, sure, fine, but damn did they give everything else the proverbial shaft.
-More linear than marketing led me to believe. It would have been forgivable if a constant up-selling point wasn't the way I could run around crafting my own story of how Henry became the savior of his land.
-Animations, even when not bugging out, need serious work.
 
I don't get why some people are bothered with the Cumans' portrayal. They're the enemy, that is that. In a different time and place they could be amiable strangers but for the moment they are raiding and pillaging the towns and villages.
A good conversation for Henry to have about the Cumans would be with Sir Radzig and Father Godwin:
-Sir Radzig would see them as nothing more than mercenaries as part of Sigismund's army
-Father Godwin would remind Henry that they are still his fellow man.
Everyone who is native is Dudley Do-Right
That's a bit of an exaggeration, there were countless natives who were also assholes, e.g. the Rattay citizens whom showed nothing but contempt to the Skalitz refugees, the monks and the custodian at the monastery, even Henry's own friends, Fritz and Matthew.
fairy-fucking-godmother!
Was this the old herbalist in the woods that gave those three ladies a recipe that made them really high?
 
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I don't get why some people are bothered with the Cumans' portrayal. They're the enemy, that is that. In a different time and place they could be amiable strangers but for the moment they are raiding and pillaging the towns and villages.
A good conversation for Henry to have about the Cumans would be with Sir Radzig and Father Godwin:
-Sir Radzig would see them as nothing more than mercenaries as part of Sigismund's army
-Father Godwin would remind Henry that they are still his fellow man.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, there were countless natives who were also assholes, e.g. the Rattay citizens whom showed nothing but contempt to the Skalitz refugees, the monks and the custodian at the monastery, even Henry's own friends, Fritz and Matthew.

Was this the old herbalist in the woods that gave those three ladies a recipe that made them really high?

God forbid we want a realistic, nuanced perception of the people at the time in a game with Historical accuracy billed as a major selling point.
 
God forbid we want a realistic, nuanced perception of the people at the time in a game with Historical accuracy billed as a major selling point.
[shrugs] I don't what else to say about it. I do also care about nuance, such as the lack of a Central Powers campaign in Battlefield 1, but sometimes I couldn't care less about it, as in this case.
 
Typo of stand I assume.

stan
stan/
informal
noun
noun: stan; plural noun: stans
  1. 1.
    an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity.
    "he has millions of stans who are obsessed with him and call him a rap god"
verb
verb: stan; 3rd person present: stans; past tense: stanned; past participle: stanned; gerund or present participle: stanning
  1. 1.
    be an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity.
    "y'all know I stan for Katy Perry, so I was excited to see the artwork for her upcoming album"
Origin
early 21st century: probably with allusion to the 2000 song "Stan" by the American rapper Eminem, about an obsessed fan.
 
stan
stan/
informal
noun
noun: stan; plural noun: stans
  1. 1.
    an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity.
    "he has millions of stans who are obsessed with him and call him a rap god"
verb
verb: stan; 3rd person present: stans; past tense: stanned; past participle: stanned; gerund or present participle: stanning
  1. 1.
    be an overzealous or obsessive fan of a particular celebrity.
    "y'all know I stan for Katy Perry, so I was excited to see the artwork for her upcoming album"
Origin
early 21st century: probably with allusion to the 2000 song "Stan" by the American rapper Eminem, about an obsessed fan.

Huh. Learn something new every day.
 
I assume stan was a fusion of "stalker fan" but I've only seen it used occasionally.
 
It's only recently entered the larger english internet lexicon, but it's an evocative definition with a shared cultural heritage (read: that Eminem song ft. Dido) that is easy to grok.

EDIT: Like literally it comes from Eminem's "Stan"
 
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