IMPULSE DECISIONS GO!
Fair warning. This is going to be short, experimental, and sporadically...
Fair warning. This is going to be short, experimental, and sporadically...
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Faith | 23 |
Fusou got a new SI? Her profile doesn't show any new threads.Oh wow, a new SI from Fusou and a sequel to FisF? Today is a good day.
It is good to see a sequel to FiSF, I was surprised and sad to see it end so suddenly. Will you be receiving one of Mr. Cloak's packages?
The author of the PA SI Outside Context Problem.I have no idea what you're talking about, so, uh, no, I guess not. Who's Mr. Cloak?
Commander Faith is… well. First off, Faith is a self insert, and that's terrible. Not that I'm saying all self inserts are terrible - read any of Shadenight's more popular works (Bond Breaker, Noblesse Oblige, Knocking on Heaven's Door, et cetera) and you'll see that they can be done really well (although all three of the above are admittedly tinged with his typical angst/edgyness)
With the amazing power of hindsight, I probably should have taken some of those suggestions to visit fantasy or modern supernatural worlds - limiting the upgrade prospects of the Commander SI, given the natives an advantage in the form of whatever magic or supernatural powers they possess. But I didn't. Ah well.
I don't blame you, the FTL parts were the hottest, most garbage part of a whole heap of hot garbage.I tried reading the prequel to this a while back but gave up during the FTL parts. When I saw this, I looked back at the original, saw the post mortem you did and thought I might comment a little bit.
Looking back, I'm not sure why I chose those stories, and they're definitely not the ones I'd chose now (actually, I'm not sure I honestly could recommend what fits my idea of a 'good SI fic' now, but that's another point). I was also somewhat drunk at the time so it's entirely possible they were the only ones I remembered by name.If you meant to give those as examples that disprove the idea that all SI's are terrible...
Yeah, no. And I say that as someone who actively participated in Bond Breaker's thread during the halcyon days of my foolish youth.
This honestly seems arbitrary and pointless. What exactly distinguishes supernatural powers from technology, exactly? Nothing, really. The fact that they're labeled "magic" wouldn't really make them any more or less difficult to copy than any of the supertech, other than the name.
If you want to restrict a Commander's ability, the answer seems pretty simple. Their supertechnology, like pretty much all kinds of technology, assumes that the underlying laws of physics that they operate on don't change. Naturally, this isn't a safe assumption if you decide to travel to a different universe. For example, who's to say that Element Zero is a thing that can even conceivably exist the Red Faction universe? Who's to say that the quantum mechanics that Commander technology uses remain constant across every world?
If by 'things' you mean technology, then no, it's not, really, for reasons vyor and Drich outlined nicely in the last thread.Really, the fact that it's possible to copy things at all is kinda absurd if any thought is put into it, let alone with the unthinking ease that these types of SI's tend to do.
Looking back, I'm not sure why I chose those stories, and they're definitely not the ones I'd chose now (actually, I'm not sure I honestly could recommend what fits my idea of a 'good SI fic' now, but that's another point). I was also somewhat drunk at the time so it's entirely possible they were the only ones I remembered by name.
Magic, regardless of how structured and orderly a given system may appear at first glance, is inherently tied to the concept of a soul/essence/spirit/whatever in a way that nothing, no level of technology, can replicate on a purely physical level.
CMDR captures a wizard from Harry Potter. By taking apart the wizard, CMDR can see... a human body. Even with the added context of seeing the wizard waving a stick around and yelling 'expelliarmus', that doesn't mean that CMDR, or any other random human, can get the same results from the same actions.
(I'll add a disclaimer at this point that the only Harry Potter Film I've seen in the last 15 years was Fantastic Beasts, and I was drunk for that, too. But I'm pretty sure wizards in that universe just have magical powers with no biological impetus for it.)
My own answer to this was that I felt it ran counter to the narrative of slowly (or not-so-slowly) building an ever widening power base.
1 - If 'exotic' technology or supertechnology or whatever only works in the universe of origin, then you're left with a Commander packing their more vanilla-physics kit plus whatever they steal from whatever dimension they're in at the moment. That takes away a lot of the outside-context-problem, simply because the outside-context-stuff won't work because it's, well, outside the context of the universe. A big OCP for the Mass Effect universe is the ability to travel FTL without relays, for example, and that flat doesn't work if you're already banning all the non-Mass Effect super-tech that doesn't run off vanilla-physics.
This turns the source of the Commander's power away from 'you cannot beat me because I have all these techniques you've never seen before' and more towards 'you can't beat me because I'm you, but stronger' and I feel that makes an already weak story basis weaker.
If by 'things' you mean technology, then no, it's not, really, for reasons vyor and Drich outlined nicely in the last thread.
If by 'things' you mean magic, then I happen to agree, for reasons I've outlined towards the top of this post.
Not at all. I realize that there are a lot of people on the internet who read disagreement as condescension, but I prefer to avoid that and you didn't flat call me stupid or otherwise insult my intelligence (besides taking a cheap shot at my past sense of taste in fiction =P ) so nah, you're fine.EDIT: Reread my post. Apologies if I came off as a condescending prick.
I profess I'm not super familiar with DC but a very quick glance at the wiki page for Homo Magi seems to suggest that they're just... humans with magic powers that are vaguely hereditary. Like Wizards from Harry Potter, who also are otherwise indistinguishable from regular humans. I may have read that wrong, though, feel free to correct.This seems like an arbitrary distinction, to be honest. On two levels, even. Consider:
A) Series where magic is tied to biology and "life force" instead of the soul e.g. DC's Homo Magi
Magic working as technology (trains powered by lightning elementals, for example) is still magic. It just looks different. I'll grant there are universes where magic can be manipulated by apparently mundane science/technology, like Aura Readers and the Soul Transfer Machine in RWBY, but they're elements of the setting I personally hate for exactly this reason. If you can science magic, it's not magic.B) Series where magic can be manipulated by physical tools and works as technology/magitech. e.g. Eberron.
Not necessarily the soul, just some sort of abstract, non-physical force. Such as, for instance, The Force, of Star Wars fame. Jedi Droids are pretty magic and taking one apart wouldn't give you a blueprint for Force powers. Just a droid.Furthermore, even if you accept the assumption that magic is tied to the soul, presumably the soul is tied to something, yes? Probably a biological form. Biology is a field of science. Commanders are good at science. Make those ends meet, y'know?
This isn't technology using magic. This is technology telling a wizard to use magic. No matter how many bio-control chips and mind control devices you use you're still, at the end of the day, relying on a wizard to do the magic for you. You can treat it like technology all you like but that doesn't mean it is.Even if artificially inseminated humans don't count as having souls for whatever reason*, then just grab an existing, really abhorrent wizard and futz around with their brain meats and psychology until you've got some way of reliably inputting commands and stick them in a life support robot until you need them. Magic then becomes just another type of technology that requires certain rare components to function properly.
Being unwilling to meat puppet wizards into using magic on your behalf is exactly why it would be a limiting prospect to most Commanders. SI!Faith would not have agreed to carry around a box full of lobotomized magicians for the purpose of doing magic tricks regardless of the potential benefits, due to purely moral/ethical concerns. Hence, in a magical/supernatural setting, the Commander is limited in potential gain and the native factions have the advantage, as I stated back in the Post-Mortem. I'll grant I didn't explain that very well at the time, though.But let's say you're unwilling to do the above (though this is very distinct from being unable to do the above). That's fair. It also really doesn't matter.
You don't have to understand something to exploit it. With the mental speed of a Commander, you can learn the properties of any given magical effect with speed beyond even the most intelligent wizard, since all you require is basic pattern recognition.
From there, you're set, pretty much. The value of the magic isn't strictly contained. If you break one law of physics, that has a cascading effect on literally everything else and it completely changes the ways in which you can approach your technology.
Okay, you've got a point here. That's a level of detail I hadn't really considered on account of FiSF being a generally low-effort production, but you're absolutely right. There are many ways that a Planetary Annihilation Commander could serve as an OCP to most universes. Realizing that, the fact that snowballing into a giant ball of fifteen different tech bases and stomping everything is how it's usually done is one of the more disappointing conceits of the genre. It's kind of the expectation the PASI title sets, though.I think being able to exponentially expand like bacteria is still pretty much an OCP. That said, I don't really agree with this. Though I was commenting on it as a matter of verisimilitude, even from a story perspective it doesn't have to weaken the story.
Let's take a Mass Effect example...*snipped*