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Hey guys why do people give horror movies slack for using harmful stereotypes?

I think it's I'm large parts because Horror is a genre which deals in taboo by it's very nature. It's an outlet for things society does not let us engage in otherwise.

That's why sex and horror are so intertwined for instance
 
Horror is often seen as a cheap, low quality genre of movies. I have to imagine that's part of it.
 
Queshire said:
Horror is often seen as a cheap, low quality genre of movies. I have to imagine that's part of it.
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Yeah and horror fans don't care about politics. Green Inferno is okay because it's a homage to 80ties cannibal films, even if those movies where already racist in the first place why do you want to lovingly tribute to racist garbage like exploition films.
 
That really depends on what you mean by "people" since you have literally linked two articles criticizing horror movies for these very thing you say people don't criticize them for.
 
Horror fans aren't super critical on average. However, that doesn't mean they don't care or don't engage in criticism: for instance, one of the big horror youtuber, James A Janisse has talked on multiple occasions about IIRC the unfortunate aspects of the "indian burial ground" trope.
 
Horror is traditionally a schlock genre and schlock doesn't really get much in the way of critical analysis. A trend that's only been reversing quite recently.
 
In every existing medium and genre there gonna be people overlooking questionable things. This is not unique to horror films.

The questionable stuff varies, as different cultures and sub-cultures have different blindspots, but : There are always people willing to look at fiction with an critical eye and they expose those blindspots like the people you linked in the op.
 
The Bird said:
Horror fans aren't super critical on average. However, that doesn't mean they don't care or don't engage in criticism: for instance, one of the big horror youtuber, James A Janisse has talked on multiple occasions about IIRC the unfortunate aspects of the "indian burial ground" trope.
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Cool you knows any good critical Anylsist of horror tropes
 
I still remember the really messed up scene of Freddy's conception where his mother was gangraped by numerous inmates in an asylum....ugh.
 
Red Orion said:
I think it's I'm large parts because Horror is a genre which deals in taboo by it's very nature. It's an outlet for things society does not let us engage in otherwise.

That's why sex and horror are so intertwined for instance
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This.

I've seen more than a dozen movies out there who dealt with those taboo topics perfectly, such as showcasing why racism was bad without being overly preachy to the point where it'd turn off anybody. Why rape is considered a horrific crime, etc.

But yeah, for every good movie that masterfully dealt with the taboo topics in a tasteful way? There's always at 10 out there who tried the same thing but bombed big-time due to the writers and directors not understanding how to handle such taboo topics tastefully.

Examples:

Midsommar handled topics like brainwashing and cults beautifully, and it was made even more chilling by the fact that it was all so realistic, and there was no scary supernatural monster making them do things or anything. It was a good look at human nature, and how fragile our minds could be. and the scenes were all very tastefully done, so there was no cheap thrills or shock value going on there.

Then there was "Species", which was basically just porn disguised as horror.
 
It's interesting because being a fringe taboo and mostly underground genre carries its benefits and its flaws often in equal measure. Yeah there is a lot of bigotry to be found in various horror movies but its status as outsider genre fiction also often allowed it to be far more progressive then what a mainstream movie could be. The Night of the living dead series has a lot of anti red scare, anti racist, anti consumerist messages, Clive Barker made an entire movie about how the scary and demonized secret community is actually the guys (NightBreed) The purge movies are incredibly violent horror movies and have progressive leftist messaging about as subtle a fog horn. And I don't have time to mention the recent works of Jordan Peele in Get Out and Us.
 
Konradleijon said:
I know but horror fans don't look at this reddit thread r/horror - What are your thoughts on "The Green Inferno" (2016)?

Like no one seems to notice the obvious racism is the premise and the cannibal genre as a whole.
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"Fans" are never critical of the things that they are fans of. You find people deliberately ignoring, downplaying, or even actively celebrating the bad stuff in all media, not just horror movies.

There's a difference between "person who likes a thing" and "fan." The latter has a portion of their identity invested in the thing, and is therefore compelled to defend it. The former just likes the thing.
 
Leila Hann said:
"Fans" are never critical of the things that they are fans of. You find people deliberately ignoring, downplaying, or even actively celebrating the bad stuff in all media, not just horror movies.

There's a difference between "person who likes a thing" and "fan." The latter has a portion of their identity invested in the thing, and is therefore compelled to defend it. The former just likes the thing.
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That's only halfway true, I think.

For example-- I'm a huge fan of the first half of SAO season 1, mainly because I'm a big fan of Asuna more than I am the other character. I'm shamelessly an Asuna Fangirl.

But then I started hating on the rest of SAO for their problematic depiction of Asuna and other female characters. I hated how they would build up those female characters to be total badasses who also were interesting characters in their own right... only for that to be taken away the moment Kirtio shows up. All of a sudden, they forget the skills they had, etc and have to literally sit there going "Kirtio, save me!"
They get turned into cheap plot devices and damsels in distresses just to prop up Kirtio to make him look good. You know a character is terrible if the writing has to nerf or hand the idiot ball to otherwise competent characters just to make that one character look good.

As a result, I ended up being a fan of SAO Abridged as the Abridged series addresses all the flaws of the show and then changes it into a far more interesting one.

I think you can be a huge fan of something but still be critical of some problematic aspects that it has. like, you can be a big fan of the idea that some movies try to convey, but not be a fan of the exeuction itself. ya know?
 
Aurora Moon said:
That's only halfway true, I think.

For example-- I'm a huge fan of the first half of SAO season 1, mainly because I'm a big fan of Asuna more than I am the other character. I'm shamelessly an Asuna Fangirl.

But then I started hating on the rest of SAO for their problematic depiction of Asuna and other female characters. I hated how they would build up those female characters to be total badasses who also were interesting characters in their own right... only for that to be taken away the moment Kirtio shows up. All of a sudden, they forget the skills they had, etc and have to literally sit there going "Kirtio, save me!"
They get turned into cheap plot devices and damsels in distresses just to prop up Kirtio to make him look good. You know a character is terrible if the writing has to nerf or hand the idiot ball to otherwise competent characters just to make that one character look good.

As a result, I ended up being a fan of SAO Abridged as the Abridged series addresses all the flaws of the show and then changes it into a far more interesting one.

I think you can be a huge fan of something but still be critical of some problematic aspects that it has. like, you can be a big fan of the idea that some movies try to convey, but not be a fan of the exeuction itself. ya know?
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Yeah I do not understand the Hate directed at SAO it's definitely not a good show by any means, but the hate train band wagon has focused on it unless of other worse shows. Like Rising of the Shield hero has disgusting subtext and a very unlikable main character. At least SAO doesn't have disgusting politics like Gate and Terraformers.
 
Konradleijon said:
Yeah I do not understand the Hate directed at SAO it's definitely not a good show by any means, but the hate train band wagon has focused on it unless of other worse shows. Like Rising of the Shield hero has disgusting subtext and a very unlikable main character. At least SAO doesn't have disgusting politics like Gate and Terraformers.
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I think it got all the hate because it mainly promised to be something and then ended up delivering a whole different show than the one people signed up for. A lot of people wanted a survival game show and would've been okay with them exploring the PSTD, Survivor's guilt, and everything else in the aftermath of that. Instead, it got turned into a harem-wannabe show, which people didn't sign up for, etc.

Shows like Sheild Hero doesn't pretend to be anything else but what it is--an iskeai revenge story. It's kind of very bluntly upfront about what it is... while shows like SAO pretends to be something else, which misleads viewers at first and makes viewers annoyed.

I think that also dovetails itself back to the original topic thread nicely too... the reason why so many horror movies are seen as problematic too while not seeing the same thing in certain horror movies despite the fact that all of them have the same themes.

So many horror movies try too hard to pretend that they have some deeper meaning to the gorefest and stuff... when in reality they just wanted to do mindless gorefest. It's only a few horror movies that actually does convey the deeper meaning behind all the scary stuff.

I think that's what leads a lot of people to hate on what would be simply yet another substandard anime... or in this case, mindless horror movie.
 
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I'd say it's because most people watching horror expecting some sort of jump scares or gore/violence if the horror film went that way. We've been conditioned to expect those things for this genre.

So most people don't see past those tropes, except for people who do. Like film critics, or genre enthusiasts. Normies don't care. They also don't expect much from horror genre.

In Asia especially, most horror movies/drama series have actual ghost(s) in it, usually being the titular character. So when there's no ghost(s), it's not horror. Also the ghost comes out of some violent background - usually rape or suicide or murder... Traumatized spirits make great ghosts. So the genre gets plenty of leeway than any other in terms of torturing the characters.

That's why when quality horror movies like Midsommar, or drama series like Haunting of Hill House which do not focus on the usual horror tropes come out, people started to see the difference. Well, some people.



For movies like Split though, which addressed delicate topics like dissociative personality disorder... I have never watched the movie, but I have read a novel that used DPD as part of the main character's trait.

It's a murder thriller which the MC apparently have a very traumatic experience when she was a child to the point of creating brand new personalities, except the MC doesn't know about it and the other personalities started killing people without her noticing anything. They're not superhuman though, just very good at killing and very violent. They also hated the OG personality, and started leaving signs everywhere which spooked the MC out. It's a very good read, but I don't know how accurate it is, because the book used the old term for DPD (as it is an old novel), and the story ends with the MC assimilating her other personalities via therapy.
 
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Yeah we want to have Horror movies taking seriously as art. But also lose there shit if you apply critical analysis to it then stop SJW. Many horror fans are totally okay with shit as racist as Green inferno because it's a "homage" to other racist movies. Why do you want to celebrate something as shitty as Cannibal Holucuaset and 70s exploition movies?
 
Mental Omega said:
Horror is traditionally a schlock genre and schlock doesn't really get much in the way of critical analysis. A trend that's only been reversing quite recently.
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Which is kinda odd because Horror is full of social messaging. Horror works deal heavily in karma, often to the point where you can easily predict which characters will live or die. Horror works deal heavily in justice, the villain is often someone that has been wronged and forgotten. Horror works often advance pro-establishment "stray from society's norms and Bad Things will happen to you" messages. Horror works also advance anti-establishment "society's norms ARE the Bad Thing" messages.
 
Aurora Moon said:
That's only halfway true, I think.

For example-- I'm a huge fan of the first half of SAO season 1, mainly because I'm a big fan of Asuna more than I am the other character. I'm shamelessly an Asuna Fangirl.

But then I started hating on the rest of SAO for their problematic depiction of Asuna and other female characters. I hated how they would build up those female characters to be total badasses who also were interesting characters in their own right... only for that to be taken away the moment Kirtio shows up. All of a sudden, they forget the skills they had, etc and have to literally sit there going "Kirtio, save me!"
They get turned into cheap plot devices and damsels in distresses just to prop up Kirtio to make him look good. You know a character is terrible if the writing has to nerf or hand the idiot ball to otherwise competent characters just to make that one character look good.

As a result, I ended up being a fan of SAO Abridged as the Abridged series addresses all the flaws of the show and then changes it into a far more interesting one.

I think you can be a huge fan of something but still be critical of some problematic aspects that it has. like, you can be a big fan of the idea that some movies try to convey, but not be a fan of the exeuction itself. ya know?
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Can confirm. I used to be a huge fan of Naruto back in the day but as the series went on i got increasingly sick of how it kept sidelining the female characters. These days I'm also a lot more aware of and actively against it's brief bouts of homophobia and transphobia.
 
Mook said:
Can confirm. I used to be a huge fan of Naruto back in the day but as the series went on i got increasingly sick of how it kept sidelining the female characters. These days I'm also a lot more aware of and actively against it's brief bouts of homophobia and transphobia.
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I know. I lot of fans of niche mediums/genres are like totally ignorant of garbage politics, see Eli Roth's Xenophobia trilogy and the The Irregular at Magic High School Very obvious Japanese nationalism. These people can't critically analysis the media they consume.
 
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