Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

How the fuck is the planet supposed to fudge any numbers to make important people still be born and all of history happen mostly the same when there aren't any numbers left to fudge? setting aside the butterfly effect for a moment, France and the US should've just stopped existing as nations with the casualties they suffered. Did the Akashic record just shrug it's shoulders and replace the dead with saberfaces?

Here's a thought. Perhaps Human History had always had these deaths, it's just the Singularities were always the cause. You're assuming a butterfly effect, but Gilgamesh specifically stated that history tries to make the deaths make sense historically, so what if there's no change to the timeline because the Singularities effects were accounted for from the beginning.

Like for instance, the thousands of people who died from the fog in Real History? What if that was caused by the Singularity being fit into real history and the thousands who died was part of the death toll of the Singularity.

Plus, you're also assuming that these people all died at the same time, there's always the possibility that they're dying at different points, and given how people tended to die young in the past (even as close to the present period as say London), there's no real difference to history, since they'd be more likely to die from accidents or illness regardless. That would explain why the destruction of Uruk as a nation-state would destroy Human History, instead of all the people. There's enough of a gap in there to allow them to have children themselves and raise them before they all pass on one at a time, instead of all at once which would be more devastating.

You might argue that that's not how it was explained, but all Gilgamesh said was that everything we did mattered, because the Singularity does affect Human History. That every man we saved in the singularity is a man we saved in real history too, and that history adjusts everything to fit the grand scheme of things. (so say George Washington was killed, History would leave him alive to live out his life, before eventually killing him off when his fate no longer matters to history.)
 
Last edited:
Here's a thought. Perhaps Human History had always had these deaths, it's just the Singularities were always the cause. You're assuming a butterfly effect, but Gilgamesh specifically stated that history tries to make the deaths make sense historically, so what if there's no change to the timeline because the Singularities effects were accounted for from the beginning.

Like for instance, the thousands of people who died from the fog in Real History? What if that was caused by the Singularity being fit into real history and the thousands who died was part of the death toll of the Singularity.

Plus, you're also assuming that these people all died at the same time, there's always the possibility that they're dying at different points, and given how people tended to die young in the past (even as close to the present period as say London), there's no real difference to history, since they'd be more likely to die from accidents or illness regardless. That would explain why the destruction of Uruk as a nation-state would destroy Human History, instead of all the people. There's enough of a gap in there to allow them to have children themselves and raise them before they all pass on one at a time, instead of all at once which would be more devastating.

You might argue that that's not how it was explained, but all Gilgamesh said was that everything we did mattered, because the Singularity does affect Human History. That every man we saved in the singularity is a man we saved in real history too, and that history adjusts everything to fit the grand scheme of things. (so say George Washington was killed, History would leave him alive to live out his life, before eventually killing him off when his fate no longer matters to history.)
Because that makes no fucking sense for an urban fantasy world that's supposed to look like ours on the surface? You can actually hand wave plenty of stuff away by saying, 'this world looks like ours so you assumed these historical events mostly lined up, but you're actually wrong, I never said Rome didn't have an extra civil war during Nero's reign.' That actually works for some things, but doesn't actually work for most of Grand Order. It might work for the example I just used, but it doesn't work for much else. Chaldea is an organization of Mages tasked with safeguarding history and they find all these events surprising. If there were massive unexplained dips in life expectancy around the times of singularities then characters really should have noted that. They're never surprised that something is the reason for a lot of deaths, they're surprised the deaths are happening period. The Orleans singularity is introduced as the beginning of a lull in the Hundred years war after Joan of Arc's execution, not a lull that was mysteriously more deadly than all the 'hot' periods of the war put together. There's never a 'huh I always thought it was weird that so many accomplished mages also died around the time of the Great Fog, I guess we know why now' moment. I could give you the Singularity being the real cause of muggle deaths from that time since it matches up almost perfectly, but it's the only Singularity that does match up that neatly, so I can't buy it as an explanation for the whole. So at the very least, the Singularities and their effects are aberrations from the point of view of Chaldea's original timeline.

People just not dieing all at once as an explanation for why it doesn't get noticed is kind of weird. Here's why:
Gilgamesh: Naive fool! You thought the dead would simply come back? If you didn't save them then they're gone.
MC: How the fuck did I save history then? Everything should be fucked by now if that's the case.
Gilgamesh: Oh I meant they will die. They might die immediately or they might die 20 years after the singularity that killed them.
MC: So they come back, they might even live out most of their natural lives.
Gilgamesh: They're dead, but not necessarily immediately.
MC: Isn't that just the human condition? Dieing 20 years after the singularity after they've served their historical purpose and raised kids sure doesn't sound like 'people die when they are killed.'

Note: I haven't gotten to said conversation yet, not meant to be an accurate representation.

But the main offenders are France and America. We actually can say French history is mostly supposed to match up to ours post-singularity because Marie and Napoleon exist. Heck, history actually got the genders of all the French Heroic Spirits that I can think of right, so history is really batting a thousand there. So like half the French population died after Joan of Arc did, but French history still followed all the same beats it did in the real world? Fuck that.

And we know that America exists in the Nasuverse, we know several heroic spirits that match up with history as we know it, we know World War 2 happened, and we even know that Bill fucking Clinton becomes president and that Iskandar saw him as his greatest potential rival for world domination if he got his wish. Which really doesn't square with the east coast (read: all of America) all dieing less than a decade after the country is founded. I don't care how much history tries to adjust things, France and America are too fucking big.

In the end it's just a pointlessly convoluted retcon that supposedly gives things more stakes, but pretty much the only non-Servant/Chaldea death that's not statistic is Siduri. And one of the above comments mentioned that people getting converted into Lahmus got fixed by restoring history, so the one meaningful (permanent?) death the story gave us got retconned out from under the stupid retcon that would have made it matter.

Since I haven't actually reached the conversation yet, I have to ask if the common interpretation is actually right. Are we sure Gilgamesh meant 'People die when they are killed' rather than 'It's never wrong to save someone' or 'Of course it never happened, but why on earth should that mean it's not real Harry?'

Edit: Finally, at the end of this monster, I'd like to apologize for creating it. You did not deserve this stream of barely coherent word vomit.
 
Last edited:
Here's a thought. Perhaps Human History had always had these deaths, it's just the Singularities were always the cause. You're assuming a butterfly effect, but Gilgamesh specifically stated that history tries to make the deaths make sense historically, so what if there's no change to the timeline because the Singularities effects were accounted for from the beginning.

Like for instance, the thousands of people who died from the fog in Real History? What if that was caused by the Singularity being fit into real history and the thousands who died was part of the death toll of the Singularity.

Plus, you're also assuming that these people all died at the same time, there's always the possibility that they're dying at different points, and given how people tended to die young in the past (even as close to the present period as say London), there's no real difference to history, since they'd be more likely to die from accidents or illness regardless. That would explain why the destruction of Uruk as a nation-state would destroy Human History, instead of all the people. There's enough of a gap in there to allow them to have children themselves and raise them before they all pass on one at a time, instead of all at once which would be more devastating.

You might argue that that's not how it was explained, but all Gilgamesh said was that everything we did mattered, because the Singularity does affect Human History. That every man we saved in the singularity is a man we saved in real history too, and that history adjusts everything to fit the grand scheme of things. (so say George Washington was killed, History would leave him alive to live out his life, before eventually killing him off when his fate no longer matters to history.)
For my own part, I've always looked at it in the same context that was done in the old Legacy of Kain games:
Soul Reaver 2 – 'The Ruined Aerie' said:
Kain:
You must understand, Raziel – we haven't unwritten history, we've merely rewritten it.
The future flows around our petty actions, finding the path of least resistance while admitting only the slightest alterations.
This is the reshuffling you felt, when you refused to kill me.
And remember, Raziel, we are irritants in this regard, as well – history will not allow the introduction of a paradox.

Raziel:
And if events cannot be reshuffled to accommodate the change?

Kain:
It is the irritant who's expelled.

Unlike LoK, however, paradox was explicitly the whole point of the Singularities, to begin with – not just in creating one, but also in preventing Proper Human History from being able to either accommodate or expel it. Thereby destabilizing PHH enough, for Goetia to be able to go through with the Incineration of Humanity.

Once the Singularity itself has been depowered (through Chaldea's efforts) and expelled as an irritant (by PHH), everything that happened as a direct result of the Singularity is therefore likewise retconned away, resetting everything. Including all of the lives lost.
 
Last edited:
Quantum Uncertainty Principle and General Relativity
Gilgamesh: "Do you know what a Singularity is, Chaldeans?"

Ritsuka and Rika: "Uh..."

Taylor: "It's an unknowable point in space-time, where the laws of physics break down and the rules of reality no longer conform to either scientific or magecraft models."

Mash: "How do you know that, Miss Taylor?"

Taylor: "I do actually pay attention when Da Vinci goes off on tangents, you know."

Gilgamesh: "Correct! Therefore, a Singularity such as the one you find yourselves in now would also be such a scenario, wouldn't it? It would become an ill-defined point in history beyond which the future no longer corresponds to any coherent models. You might say, anything that happens in a Singularity is itself of dubious authenticity."

Rika: "...I feel like there's going to be a cat somewhere in this explanation."

Gilgamesh: "No cats, merely a deeper understanding of the nature of human history. So tell me, if the future created by a Singularity is undefined, but the future after the Singularity is resolved has already been observed, how might you reconcile those deaths that should not have been? I tell you that each life you saved has meaning, and each death you could not prevent must also occur, but that both are true does not have to mean that history as you knew it was rewritten after the fact. Rather, it is because you could not save them that history recorded them as dying — perhaps earlier than they should have."

Ritsuka: "Okay, I'm starting to get confused, too."

Mash: "I think what he's trying to say is... The people who died in the Singularities didn't actually die inside the Singularities, because the Singularities are technically unobserved history."

Gilgamesh: "An adequate understanding of the situation, I suppose. Let me enlighten you further, then: history does not waste energy on useless mongrels. It spares only the energy necessary to ensure history occurs as it has been observed to have occurred. Those who died in these Singularities lived outside them only long enough to fulfill what was required of their role in history. That is the way of the Human Counter Force. Your Faker should know this better than anyone."

How that conversation should go, probably.
That was TNG, Data was lost a strategy game of some kind with the character of the week and was doubting himself because of it.
Then later he went back and did this.

Not where I heard it from, since I'm not a Trekkie. Although the guy who I did hear say it might have been referencing that episode.
 
Gilgamesh: "An adequate understanding of the situation, I suppose. Let me enlighten you further, then: history does not waste energy on useless mongrels. It spares only the energy necessary to ensure history occurs as it has been observed to have occurred.

"So if there was a singularity on some ancient history that only existed as a fragmentary story whose only merit is being old, with no impact on the rest of human history, the protagonist of it could be ignored and dismissed with nothing of value lost!"

"I have no idea what you're implying, but it feels like an insult."
 
Would Gilgamesh respect Taylor more than most of the 'people' he interacts with? Given her history of saving all humanity everywhere and being instrumental in killing Scion. Or would he disregard god-slaying (only not really) and acquire Enkidu's?
 
Not... quite how it works. King Gilgamesh establishes in Babylonia that while the Counter Force will revise the events of the Singularity to match up with Proper Human History, it can't just revise death away the same way. Death, in the Nasuverse, is the soul leaving the physical world and returning to Akasha, getting factory reset down to the Origin, and reincarnating back into life. This is established in Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai. It's why Heaven's Feel, infinite sustaining of a soul, is a True Magic.

Singularities can change history, lives lost or saved do matter... it just doesn't usually impact anything. What does it change that a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of Humanity lived where they should have died or died where they should have lived? Only the premature death of key figures(Nero, Drake, Gilgamesh) or the complete eradication of humans within the time period can cause impactful damage to the timeline.
 
Last edited:
Though if the singularities operate as some kind of bizarre stable time-loop situation and the proper human history the main characters remember was always one post singularities being repaired, how does that square with observed history claiming the entire French royal family wasn't supposed to die during Orleans? Or the entire United States government in America?

Does history just recast people with whatever population is left? Like "whoops, the entire French royal family is gone. Congrats random peasant family, you're now active royalty and retroactively always have been!"
 
Gilgamesh: "Do you know what a Singularity is, Chaldeans?"

Ritsuka and Rika: "Uh..."

Taylor: "It's an unknowable point in space-time, where the laws of physics break down and the rules of reality no longer conform to either scientific or magecraft models."

Mash: "How do you know that, Miss Taylor?"

Taylor: "I do actually pay attention when Da Vinci goes off on tangents, you know."

Gilgamesh: "Correct! Therefore, a Singularity such as the one you find yourselves in now would also be such a scenario, wouldn't it? It would become an ill-defined point in history beyond which the future no longer corresponds to any coherent models. You might say, anything that happens in a Singularity is itself of dubious authenticity."

Rika: "...I feel like there's going to be a cat somewhere in this explanation."

Gilgamesh: "No cats, merely a deeper understanding of the nature of human history. So tell me, if the future created by a Singularity is undefined, but the future after the Singularity is resolved has already been observed, how might you reconcile those deaths that should not have been? I tell you that each life you saved has meaning, and each death you could not prevent must also occur, but that both are true does not have to mean that history as you knew it was rewritten after the fact. Rather, it is because you could not save them that history recorded them as dying — perhaps earlier than they should have."

Ritsuka: "Okay, I'm starting to get confused, too."

Mash: "I think what he's trying to say is... The people who died in the Singularities didn't actually die inside the Singularities, because the Singularities are technically unobserved history."

Gilgamesh: "An adequate understanding of the situation, I suppose. Let me enlighten you further, then: history does not waste energy on useless mongrels. It spares only the energy necessary to ensure history occurs as it has been observed to have occurred. Those who died in these Singularities lived outside them only long enough to fulfill what was required of their role in history. That is the way of the Human Counter Force. Your Faker should know this better than anyone."

How that conversation should go, probably.

Not where I heard it from, since I'm not a Trekkie. Although the guy who I did hear say it might have been referencing that episode.
So my practical takeaway from this is that King Gil and Taylor are our Shady Helpful Advice Room duo, people die not necessarily exactly when they are killed, and you're agonizing over the source of a quote that is probably as old as feudalism.
 
The way I read it is that the Counter Force is puppeting shells that are filling those places in history, not full on resurrection, hence why they 'die' when they finish what they needed to.
...no, it doesn't work like that. What I'm saying is that since Siduri died in the Singularity(probably somewhere around 35, I'm just guessing here), the revised history that takes place after the Singularity is corrected would have Siduri live up to the age of 35 and then suddenly die to a plague, or natural disaster(along with 95% of Uruk). The events are altered and adjusted, the outcome is not. Or did you forget this was time travel?

Furthermore, the Counter Force doesn't do that kind of thing. It has exactly four options to bring to the table when messing around with Humanity on a scale larger than an individual: the Counter Force's personal attention, a nebulous equalizing presence that ensures certain champions like Jeanne d'Arc at least have a chance against their trials; the Counter Guardians, Alaya's personal custodians that are sent in to raze the problem along with the problem's family, friends, and pets; Mass Servant Summoning, throwing mass quantities of Servants at the problem in the hopes one of them gets lucky; and the Grand Servants, the absolute last resort red buttons that Alaya only brings in when shit is fucked inside out.
 
...And everyone missing Rika's subtle Schrodinger's Cat reference.
...no, it doesn't work like that. What I'm saying is that since Siduri died in the Singularity(probably somewhere around 35, I'm just guessing here), the revised history that takes place after the Singularity is corrected would have Siduri live up to the age of 35 and then suddenly die to a plague, or natural disaster(along with 95% of Uruk). The events are altered and adjusted, the outcome is not. Or did you forget this was time travel?

Furthermore, the Counter Force doesn't do that kind of thing. It has exactly four options to bring to the table when messing around with Humanity on a scale larger than an individual: the Counter Force's personal attention, a nebulous equalizing presence that ensures certain champions like Jeanne d'Arc at least have a chance against their trials; the Counter Guardians, Alaya's personal custodians that are sent in to raze the problem along with the problem's family, friends, and pets; Mass Servant Summoning, throwing mass quantities of Servants at the problem in the hopes one of them gets lucky; and the Grand Servants, the absolute last resort red buttons that Alaya only brings in when shit is fucked inside out.
Don't forget Quantum Time Locks.

Really, in a way, Gil is just expositing for FGO players something that Extella already established: you can change small, fiddly bits, but the major players and the big pieces will always get corrected to match the QTLs.
 
Of all the bullshit in the nasuverse, i didn't think the singularity mechanics would be what finally does it, but this might be the dumbest case of hand-waving i've heard of yet.
The idea that you could kill thousands of french and retroactively change their real fates is nonsense, if the counter-force acts to mitigate any changes to the present, it would need to act out their lives so identically there would be no real change.
Edit;: the cat was obvious James, just not all that funny since it's the only thing most people know about quantum mechanics and it's a joke about how silly quantum mechanics are.
 
Last edited:
Oddly enough, i'm picturing Caster Gil as oppose to Archer Gil. I feel that only Caster Gil has the patience to attempt to educate the twins and Taylor. Kid Gil might do it, but he also might not. Archer Gil probably won't even entertain their presence beyond telling them to go away.

So out of curiosity, which Gil was in your head when you did that little snippet?
 
Gilgamesh: "No cats, merely a deeper understanding of the nature of human history. So tell me, if the future created by a Singularity is undefined, but the future after the Singularity is resolved has already been observed, how might you reconcile those deaths that should not have been? I tell you that each life you saved has meaning, and each death you could not prevent must also occur, but that both are true does not have to mean that history as you knew it was rewritten after the fact. Rather, it is because you could not save them that history recorded them as dying — perhaps earlier than they should have."

Ritsuka: "Okay, I'm starting to get confused, too."

Mash: "I think what he's trying to say is... The people who died in the Singularities didn't actually die inside the Singularities, because the Singularities are technically unobserved history."

Gilgamesh: "An adequate understanding of the situation, I suppose. Let me enlighten you further, then: history does not waste energy on useless mongrels. It spares only the energy necessary to ensure history occurs as it has been observed to have occurred. Those who died in these Singularities lived outside them only long enough to fulfill what was required of their role in history. That is the way of the Human Counter Force. Your Faker should know this better than anyone."

How that conversation should go, probably.

Not where I heard it from, since I'm not a Trekkie. Although the guy who I did hear say it might have been referencing that episode.
I like how no matter how much I talk about none of this making sense people keep just repeating the same canon explanation that makes no sense.
...no, it doesn't work like that. What I'm saying is that since Siduri died in the Singularity(probably somewhere around 35, I'm just guessing here), the revised history that takes place after the Singularity is corrected would have Siduri live up to the age of 35 and then suddenly die to a plague, or natural disaster(along with 95% of Uruk). The events are altered and adjusted, the outcome is not. Or did you forget this was time travel?
So I suppose all of America dropping dead in 1783 and being replaced by saberface changelings from the Reverse side of the world was just a matter of historical record and no one in Chaldea brought that up because.... If people always died at these times it can't also be a surprise people died at these times. The manner of death can be a surprise, but not the death itself. No one ever says 'It's a pity Orleans got completely destroyed by Fafnir, but they were all scheduled to drop dead of plague this year anyway.'

Edit: I realize this might not be exactly what you meant, but even if historical records of minor things did get changed from Chaldea's perspective it still leaves the 'Wait how is there an America to go visit in Salem then?' It doesn't matter what alternate explanations you bring up, there's not enough left.
Not... quite how it works. King Gilgamesh establishes in Babylonia that while the Counter Force will revise the events of the Singularity to match up with Proper Human History, it can't just revise death away the same way. Death, in the Nasuverse, is the soul leaving the physical world and returning to Akasha, getting factory reset down to the Origin, and reincarnating back into life. This is established in Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai. It's why Heaven's Feel, infinite sustaining of a soul, is a True Magic.

Singularities can change history, lives lost or saved do matter... it just doesn't usually impact anything. What does it change that a percentage of a percentage of a percentage of Humanity lived where they should have died or died where they should have lived? Only the premature death of key figures(Nero, Drake, Gilgamesh) or the complete eradication of humans within the time period can cause impactful damage to the timeline.
I love how Francis fucking Drake can't be replaced by anyone but you can replace literally all of America and somehow still get to Bill Clinton.

I can't stop James from saying 'Everyone who died is dead, just due to plagues rather than dragons,' but I can say it's stupid every time it's brought up. Or I guess the other way to reconcile things would be to just stop the Singularity body counts from getting this ridiculous, but since France already happened it's a bit late for that.
 
Last edited:
Maybe it can be reconciled like this:

Quantum Time Locks are points in the timeline where it is the undeniable truth that something happened in a certain way and so long as changed history matches up to when the QTLs happen, it doesn't matter what happens in between the QTLs - any truth will do, all possibilities are considered as extant.

And so, QTLs are like the filters of the timeline, allowing all possibilities through so long as all possibilities converge to happen in the certain way the QTL says happened.

I have no idea what happened with most of America dead, but at that point, the narrowed down possibilities only allow for the absurd in order to match up to the QTLs.
 
I really like how Taylor has been clicking with her servants, but I'm missing her chemistry with Cu! I kinda hope she summons Sig back, they were kinda cute together.
 
Quantum Time Locks and Singularities are hand-waves. They literally make no viable sense in regards to Multiple Worlds and Multiversal theory, they BARELY make a lick of sense in regards to Quantum Physics, and can be neatly summarized as saying 'don't worry about it, just keep playing the game!'

Because that's what they are. An inconsistent and impossible to reconcile piece of lore thrown in for the sake of adding drama, only to become a nightmarishly nonsensical farce that just gives people a headache. It would make more sense to say that Singularities are BOMBS dropped on the timeline of false-history attempting to overwrite the true timeline, a miniature version of the Lostbelts specifically tuned to kill history by rendering the proper timeline impossible to continue as is. While having people DIE for real due to them adds drama, it renders history ruined regardless since there are only so many ways you can fuck with time to get things back on track before things are left WORSE than if you had just left the original mess. The instant the bullshit that occurred in the US Singularity went down, the established idea of Singularities having real consequences no longer made any sense.

While the events of Singularities technically happened, they are essentially brute-forced timelines that cannot exist, and would be instantly sealed, and I can't believe I'm even talking about the stupid mess that is QTL, so that time can keep going. Just saying "oh, we just used a convenient excuse to handwave the magic away from history," doesn't work because history is still RUINED. You can't even say 'the inconsequential mongrels are left to rot' because literally every person in history leaves their own ripples to establish the proper timeline. You can't just make them drop dead once some undefined fate or destiny has been established, since that would kill the rest of the ripples they left after that point, which would further distort the pool, and the idea of them being puppeted by the Counter Force is just as cringy because the Counter Force is cringy/edgy angst as a cosmic force! It's been routinely established that the counter force is either subtle to the point of pointlessness or a blunt instrument that smashes everything with an equally heavy hand. It's a mess.

It's the same issue as Shirou being a deconstruction of the all-saving hero, and deconstructions in general; you miss the forest for the trees and over-fixate on specific view that you can't see the flaws. For all that the Nasuverse has made some kick-ass characters, I don't think anyone can deny that the games are seriously cringe when it comes to their stories, the worlds are just half-a-step behind being grimdark, or are just outright grimdark altogether. Like, even Shirou realizing his dream is beautiful and still worth pursuing even though it's 'hell' is kind of ruined for me because it ignores the ACTUAL problem that made it hell in the first place.
 
For all that people are having issues with the deaths in the singularities, I feel that it's worth pointing out that it's an inherited plot point from Fate/Grand Order. Discussing it is great and all, but there's a thread for that. It's called the Fate/Grand Order Megathread: Fate/Grand Order (and maybe the other Nasuverse games) Megathread Megathread
James D. Fawkes, as the author of this fic, will make the final call here on how it works. Or he can choose to leave it vague, because it's his story. So can we move the discussion of plot holes and this stuff into the appropriate Megathread, or maybe even the general Typemoon thread?
 
Y'all seem to be equating the deaths as impossible, and the America Singularity in particular. It's completely possible if you accept that it does ruin history, and it does kill people, but the people you think are the ones killed really aren't the same people as PHH. For example it never actually names the "Founding Fathers" in the American singularity that are killed. It doesn't necessarily have to be the ones we know. Also the entire population wasn't slaughtered in America, just the British and the Revolutionary armies. Medb isn't that murder happy, she did want to be a ruler and you can't rule over the dead.

The two known historical people who die in all of the Singularities that isn't a Servant is Gilgamesh and the French priest in Orleans, the first who accepted it and wasn't particularly bothered by it, either because it was his time or he was planning on walking out of Kur like he did before like a BAMF. The second is acceptable as death due to war or disease and no one really gave a shit about him, so him dying in this single timeline earlier than normal isn't that big a deal. The rest we see killed? Pretty much nameless nobodies with no historical weight that are easily replaced by the corrective measures.

Remember that there are huge fucking consequences for the events of Part 1 in regards to the rest of the world. It absolutely destroyed the timeline of the Grand Order world. For everyone outside of Chaldea they have no fucking clue where 16 months went after it was finally resolved. It's mentioned that there is massive social upheaval due to it, and that Chaldea is very much thrown under the metaphorical bus. We as players are very much protected from a vast majority of it due to Da Vinci.
 
It feels like people are talking past each other here. I see people reiterating the same points and then others not actually responding to those points. I think this discussion should either be tabled as you're just not going to agree, or moved to the more relevant thread.
 
Pretty much nameless nobodies with no historical weight that are easily replaced by the corrective measures.
There is no such thing as a nameless nobody when it comes to history. Like I said above, every person leaves ripple marks across history as they interact with others and the world at large. While some people may not leave as big of ripples as others, it's more often than not those little ripples that allow the big ones to occur at ALL. I'm not saying that deaths can't happen in Singularities, and you are right in saying that they aren't PHH, but the problem is that, aside from the distortions occurred by the introductions of the grail and the servants, all the events prior and established to the Singularity WERE PHH, so if someone historically significant died, regardless of them being named or not, if we treat it as something that can be corrected at all, then history would still be ruined post-Singularity due to the ripple effect. You CANNOT fuck with time and expect it to be the same in the grand scheme of things just because more 'nameless nobodies' ended up dying than 'historically relevant' people.
 
Quantum Time Locks and Singularities are hand-waves. They literally make no viable sense in regards to Multiple Worlds and Multiversal theory, they BARELY make a lick of sense in regards to Quantum Physics, and can be neatly summarized as saying 'don't worry about it, just keep playing the game!'
They are that, and they're also Nasu's little throw in that says "the multiverse has infinite possibilities, but some of them just aren't viable or good for humanity's growth" or some similarly convoluted stuff. It's like how the Earth's consciousness half hated humanity and half endorsed it, but both have to murder them in trove for their own good. The example doesn't quite work, i know, but that's not the point. In short, it's the "fuck it, i say so as such it is so" when it comes to Nasu-verse.

But i really don't get what's happening with all these talks about QTL and Singularities and all the technical stuff. I would ask why all the arguing for precisely how it all works, but i feel like that'll just have me go looking at all of the earlier posts to catch up.

Why don't we all take a step back and let James flex his creativity instead? We are still pretty early in the plot of FGO so let us all just relax for now and enjoy. We can start throwing tomatoes again when he starts actually diving into the theories and mechanisms (for the twin's sake).
 
Back
Top