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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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Windborne said:
So its been a long while since I've commented or given critique in thread here. But I saw something so egregious that it needs to be stated, potentially even corrected, @James D. Fawkes. You utterly killed my suspension of disbelief with regards to Taylor's past this chapter.
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Exactly, as someone who grew up in Australia, we had these drilled into us thoroughly by Primary. A continent is kind of like a big island.

Maybe has the training in addition to her natural instincts.
 
Windborne said:
So its been a long while since I've commented or given critique in thread here. But I saw something so egregious that it needs to be stated, potentially even corrected, @James D. Fawkes. You utterly killed my suspension of disbelief with regards to Taylor's past this chapter.



Taylor shouldn't only remember just enough to teach Mash the bare basics. Taylor lived in a costal city with a father who worked for years with Dockworkers. If she wasn't thoroughly trained how to swim from the time she was a baby to the point that swimming was completely second nature to her by the time she was five I'd say it was an impossibility. I say this as someone who went through such training when I was a year and a half old and swam for years after, I will never forget how to swim; even if I were to suffer complete memory loss I have 100% confidence my body would know exactly what to do to survive. It's beyond just muscle memory or knowing what to do. It's as natural to me as walking or breathing, and it's been that way for as long as I can remember, literally.

So Taylor ought to be able to do a hell of a lot more than teaching just the basics. And that's not even getting into the fact that Bet's society as a whole probably mandated swimming lessons once Leviathan began his attacks just as potentially necessary means of survival for everyday citizens when it comes to things just like Endbringer Shelters and Sirens were. Taken all together I just can't see how Taylor would be anything, but extremely proficient at swimming.

Other than that it was a fine chapter, and was another very good cooldown chapter after Okeanos.
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on one hand, as someone who also lives in a coastal city, being trained that rigorously isn't a universal experience, i can totally see people who are that trained, but by no means every person in every coast city, on the other hand, yeah leviathan, she definitely knows how to swim, we even see it occasionally in worm, with leviathan and later on that oil rig, i don't think it's to the point of second nature, as natural as walking tho, if only because besides her living in a coast city, we have no reason to believe her to be that good, it's never once brought up in story that she got training, she just kinda swims whenever its needed.
 
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The-Chained-One said:
on one hand, as someone who also lives in a coastal city, being trained that rigorously isn't a universal experience, i can totally see people who are that trained, but by no means every person in every coast city, on the other hand, yeah leviathan, she definitely knows how to swim, we even see it occasionally in worm, with leviathan and later on that oil rig, i don't think it's to the point of second nature, as natural as walking tho, if only because besides her living in a coast city, we have no reason to believe her to be that good, it's never once brought up in story that she got training, she just kinda swims it whenever its needed.
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I mean that's true, and I totally can see that as I had a roommate in college who lived near the ocean, but was not at all capable of swimming at the time. That being said with everything, but most importantly with her father's line of work, that Taylor is clearly very familiar with since she knows sea shanties, I just can't see her being anything other than extremely proficient at it. Annette and pre car crash Danny don't seem that irresponsible to not account for the very real possibility that Taylor could very well need to know how to swim if she fell into the water somewhere in Brockton. Plus we know Taylor went to at least one summer camp, generally they feature a lake or something to swim in. And on the East coast it gets really muggy in the summer. Taking a dip to avoid the heat is a no brainer.
 
Windborne said:
I mean that's true, and I totally can see that as I had a roommate in college who lived near the ocean, but was not at all capable of swimming at the time. That being said with everything, but most importantly with her father's line of work, that Taylor is clearly very familiar with since she knows sea shanties, I just can't see her being anything other than extremely proficient at it. Annette and pre car crash Danny don't seem that irresponsible to not account for the very real possibility that Taylor could very well need to know how to swim if she fell into the water somewhere in Brockton. Plus we know Taylor went to at least one summer camp, generally they feature a lake or something to swim in. And on the East coast it gets really muggy in the summer. Taking a dip to avoid the heat is a no brainer.
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The-Chained-One said:
on one hand, as someone who also lives in a coastal city, being trained that rigorously isn't a universal experience, i can totally see people who are that trained, but by no means every person in every coast city, on the other hand, yeah leviathan, she definitely knows how to swim, we even see it occasionally in worm, with leviathan and later on that oil rig, i don't think it's to the point of second nature, as natural as walking tho, if only because besides her living in a coast city, we have no reason to believe her to be that good, it's never once brought up in story that she got training, she just kinda swims it whenever its needed.
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Yes, it might not be universal for regular city dwellers. But as the daughter of a blue collar dock worker, she should obviously have experience, even tangentially with proper swimming procedure.
 
Windborne said:
Taylor shouldn't only remember just enough to teach Mash the bare basics.
REASONING
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As an actual Lifeguard, with a large amount of swimming experience, let me start with:
Teaching is not the same as doing. I know how to swim, and can tread water extremely well, but I am not good at teaching it. This is not to say I can't get someone to basic competency, but rather that I am not a swim instructor. Ignoring how she got said skills, ability to do does not directly translate to ability to teach them.

Lastly, I know many Navy crewmen who can't swim well, and kind of at all. You'd think that someone who works on a boat would learn to swim, but... I wouldn't trust them to do fine in the deep end without a wall in arms reach.
 
The passage might have been a little vague, but Taylor's not saying she learned how to swim in the Wards, she's talking about the lessons the Wards had to take as a matter of course in learning how to swim properly. It would have been mostly a refresher to her in large parts, but she would have been taught rescue swimming and other techniques specific to being a first responder in a hazard zone, and what she's referring to specifically is how she was taught in those lessons.
 
Yeah, I'm a mid-westerner, but I grew up with a pool and had swimming beat into my small child brain from, like, 3 or 4. I also grew up with people who had never been in water over their ankles in their lives and watching some of them learn to swim was absolutely painful, and I felt legitimately sorry for those who had to teach them the proper technique.

What's worst is people who not only don't know how to swim, but are actively afraid of swimming. Downright dangerous it can be to teach someone who's afraid of water.
 
The-Chained-One said:
looks pretty dope ngl, i can totally see an assassin taylor like that, probably covered in darkness/insects instead of hair tho
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i mean yeah, probably. A!Taylor would not just be standing there without cover, but i can honestly see this as her just getting the Nasu treatment. the darkness and insects would be added in post

YoRHa_42s said:
Summoning fails and brings in Illya and Chloe instead.
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I think you are forgetting Jeanne Alter is in the base, bored, and enjoys needling at least two of the three

Never_My_Art said:
Yeah, I'm a mid-westerner, but I grew up with a pool and had swimming beat into my small child brain from, like, 3 or 4. I also grew up with people who had never been in water over their ankles in their lives and watching some of them learn to swim was absolutely painful, and I felt legitimately sorry for those who had to teach them the proper technique
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same, same, and same
gets especially painful when it's one of your parents that both insists on you learning how to swim but outright refuses to learn how themselves
 
cj.jedi said:
Snip
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I mean that's fair, but beyond basic competency it's pretty easy to teach almost purely through example. And really? That's more than a bit concerning to learn Navy members aren't capable of swimming. Id've thought it would be covered in Basic. Seems like a pretty need to know thing.

Never_My_Art said:
What's worst is people who not only don't know how to swim, but are actively afraid of swimming. Downright dangerous it can be to teach someone who's afraid of water.
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That roommate I mentioned above was one of those. He was legitimately terrified of going out on the Santa Monica pier because he was both afraid of water and couldn't swim. I had to promise to jump in to get him out if he fell, and I would've done so, but that was really the first time I'd met someone like that. He hooked up with a classmate of his and she eventually coaxed him into learning at a local rec center, something like a YMCA.
 
Windborne said:
That's more than a bit concerning to learn Navy members aren't capable of swimming. Id've thought it would be covered in Basic. Seems like a pretty need to know thing.
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It is covered in Basic. They push you off a two story platform into the pool, you perform one of the three authorized strokes to the side and then to the other end of the pool, and then float in an authorized position for five minutes (it's only recently they started allowing people to do this portion face up, previously they only let you do it face down)

The problem is that any swimming from this point on is entirely optional for the majority of sailors. We do spend a lot of resources and effort ensuring we don't have to swim after all.

You don't need to know how to swim to pass this portion of Basic, you just have to be capable of accomplishing the objectives, which are themselves the bare minimum required to keep you alive until you can hopefully get to a liferaft.

Having done the above, I will say that I can barely swim. I was even taught how when I was a teenager, but the last time I swam (not counting Basic) was ten years ago. Swimming ability just isn't all that important for most people when you're on a ship most of the time.
 
Touch Dom said:
I swear, if after all this the summoning for EMIYA fails...
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I'd laugh if they summoned another Servant with a connection to EMIYA.

Would be unbelievably hilarious if they saw the Archer card as they rolled...

Then some lady emerges and goes "Divine Light Fusion Type Annihilation Goddess. Designation: Durga."
 
Windborne said:
I mean that's fair, but beyond basic competency it's pretty easy to teach almost purely through example. And really? That's more than a bit concerning to learn Navy members aren't capable of swimming. Id've thought it would be covered in Basic. Seems like a pretty need to know thing.
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Funny thing is it is. For the army. And dad has fondly recounted hearing about flyboy and officer recruits getting dragged under by instructors before so even the airforce and commissioned ranks require swimming proficiency. He said the only people he'd ever heard drop like an anchor were the marines 'cuz they toss 'em in the drink with too much weight on. I guess the assumption is that a seaman belongs on a boat, and if he's thrown into the water they're having bigger problems at the moment and he's SoL.
 
cj.jedi said:
Lastly, I know many Navy crewmen who can't swim well, and kind of at all. You'd think that someone who works on a boat would learn to swim, but... I wouldn't trust them to do fine in the deep end without a wall in arms reach.
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To know how to swim is bad luck for a sailor - shows that you don't trust the ship to carry you.

From personal experience, there are percentage of people who do not have natural positive buoyancy, and for them is very hard to learn in first place.
 
You know, for some reason I usually think of Olga Marie as younger, probably because her upbringing left her so socially awkward, but she's actually 22-23 at this point in time, according to the wiki. I think that makes her slightly older than Taylor, though not much since this is a couple years post canon. Just a weird thing to remember when she's tsundere stuttering.
 
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There's also the part where technically, and I say this knowing the full cultural context of the word these days, Olga had been groomed by Professor Lev to be emotionally dependent on him at all times. That kind of thing really doesn't help in terms of developing emotional maturity, not really.

Considering everything though? The fact that she had managed to overhaul so much of Chaldea even under such disadvantages and sabotage says a lot about how she could've been if so much wasn't holding her back.
 
Nitramy said:
I'd laugh if they summoned another Servant with a connection to EMIYA.

Would be unbelievably hilarious if they saw the Archer card as they rolled...

Then some lady emerges and goes "Divine Light Fusion Type Annihilation Goddess. Designation: Durga."
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Kuro incoming!

But seriously, it could be Saber you know.

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readerdreamer said:
There's also the part where technically, and I say this knowing the full cultural context of the word these days, Olga had been groomed by Professor Lev to be emotionally dependent on him at all times. That kind of thing really doesn't help in terms of developing emotional maturity, not really.

Considering everything though? The fact that she had managed to overhaul so much of Chaldea even under such disadvantages and sabotage says a lot about how she could've been if so much wasn't holding her back.
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Kind of says something about Magi society, that creepy older men grooming heirs, isn't remotely a point of concern.

Maybe Romani should have done something.
 
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___ said:
Kind of says something about Magi society, that creepy older men grooming heirs, isn't remotely a point of concern.

Maybe Romani should have done something.
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Frankly it's better than some of the other things Magi have done to their own children. Tokiomi gave away his daughter Sakura knowing that it might end up with the Tohsaka sisters fighting to death later on, and that's even assuming he didn't know about Zouken's methods. Zouken treating his own children as toys. The Einzberns' treatment of Ilya. Flat's family essentially turning their entire line into one big experiment, with Flat being the culmination of said experiment.

And so on and so forth. Frankly it's hard to think up of a traditional Magi family that isn't messed up to some degree, and the one that comes to mind took one extremely competent homunculus literally beating sense into everyone for it to happen. Memento mori Toole, also Goredolf is way too kind to be a magus.
 
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