Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

I mean, Shirou is human and endgame Shirou can fight a lot of Servants straight up and win. It's just that most magi aren't combat focused monsters who leverage what they have hard enough to matter. Even Rin could body Medea with the only caveat that she has to get into punching range first.
This is blatant fanon, as perpetuated by crappy fanfiction; I would recommend disregarding any notion of 'Shirou can match some Servants* in direct combat'... he can not. The only Servant that he can oppose is Gilgamesh, and ONLY if Gil isn't being (even slightly) serious. Because once he dons his armor, Shirou loses. No if(s), and(s), or but(s). And that's before Gil decides to activate Sha Naqba Imuru on a mere whim.

* - At least, the ones that appear in the original visual novel; non-combat centric Servants, such as post-Age of Gods non-knight class Servants closer to the modern era (Hans, Shakespeare, Mata Hari, and various others) can't match post-UBW Shirou physically, but their personal skills and/or Noble Phantasms more than compensate in their respective niches.
 
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This is blatant fanon, as perpetuated by crappy fanfiction; I would recommend disregarding any notion of 'Shirou can match some Servants* in direct combat'... he can not. The only Servant that he can oppose is Gilgamesh, and ONLY if Gil isn't being (even slightly) serious. Because once he dons his armor, Shirou loses. No if(s), and(s), or but(s). And that's before Gil decides to activate Sha Naqba Imuru on a mere whim.

* - At least, the ones that appear in the original visual novel; non-combat centric Servants, such as post-Age of Gods non-knight class Servants closer to the modern era (Hans, Shakespeare, Mata Hari, and various others) can't match post-UBW Shirou physically, but their personal skills and/or Noble Phantasms more than compensate in their respective niches.
Huh, so I imagined Shirou fighting Berserker and Saber Alter (not alone but he definitely had an impact on the fight) in Heaven's Feel route?

And, in UBW, Shirou delaying Cu with a poster of all things, fight Sazuki who had just bodied Saber and had killed Rider, Rin later bodied Medea and was winning before Caster threw herself in front of some swords, later argued with himself in the form of throwing hands and swords with EMIYA, and later matched the typical sword rain Gil uses most of the time, the same kind of sword rain that had killed Berserker.

And then in Stay Night let's not forget that he pulled Caliburn out of his ass to Excali-poke Heracles to death.

I assumed all this 'humans fighting Servants and not dying immediately' was canon, but turns out it was just fanfiction. Mind telling me what fics those are?

Non-Servant Servant level combatants are rare in Fate, but they aren't impossible to find, this is helped by the fact that Servants aren't the automatic death machines you're portraying them as.

Yes, the top-tier Servants would still win, but you do realize that's like saying if you dunk something in the ocean it'll be wet. Way to use something ridiculous (Gilgamesh is OP) to prove you point. Next you'll say First Hassan would kill Shirou in a fight. Or Karna, Arjuna Above God's or Kiara. Those five would kill 95% of Servants without losing a second, what exactly is your point?

They're not in Campiogne fighting Heretic Gods, Servants are not almighty, they have a natural advantage but if they screw up, a human with the right whatever can end them, this rarely is relevant however.

The guy who started this merely wanted to keep things from getting to the point where the Masters sit around the fighting waiting for the Servants to win, that's all. I'm just pointing out that it's not impossible. Especially for Taylor, who's in the same situation as Nero and Drake, who very much could fight Servants evenly, in spite of th fact that they are living humans themselves.
 
This is blatant fanon, as perpetuated by crappy fanfiction; I would recommend disregarding any notion of 'Shirou can match some Servants* in direct combat'... he can not. The only Servant that he can oppose is Gilgamesh, and ONLY if Gil isn't being (even slightly) serious. Because once he dons his armor, Shirou loses. No if(s), and(s), or but(s). And that's before Gil decides to activate Sha Naqba Imuru on a mere whim.

* - At least, the ones that appear in the original visual novel; non-combat centric Servants, such as post-Age of Gods non-knight class Servants closer to the modern era (Hans, Shakespeare, Mata Hari, and various others) can't match post-UBW Shirou physically, but their personal skills and/or Noble Phantasms more than compensate in their respective niches.

Bullshit. In HF he fights and defeats both a buffed corrupted Saber (Sparks Liner High) and a skinless Herc. Yes, he was entirely outmatched, yes, he was breaking down mentally, yes, he uses that suicidal swordsmanship, and the arm is a double edged sword, if not a burden since he either no longer had UBW, or it was sufficiently different to be incompatible with Archer. Give UBW Emiya to catch up to his tricks and he definitely can fight Servants. Sure, it'd be a slog, but it's still totally viable. Gil counters Emiya simply because he can out escalate, he has no counter to Ea, without Saber.

Conversely, if HF Shirou had time, he could have integrated the arm over a period. Instead, it was just used as a source of easily-accessible NPs and combat techniques.
 
For all Suzuki had going for him, Saber wasn't able to fight at her fullest.
My point is, to fight servants, you need skills and stats. How much of each - depends on specific enemy.
So, if we look at original point, setting aside "Do Taylor skilled enough?", at least part of a solution to a problem is to get a Caster who can bestow big enough boosts.
 
Huh, so I imagined Shirou fighting Berserker and Saber Alter (not alone but he definitely had an impact on the fight) in Heaven's Feel route?

And, in UBW, Shirou delaying Cu with a poster of all things, fight Sazuki who had just bodied Saber and had killed Rider, Rin later bodied Medea and was winning before Caster threw herself in front of some swords, later argued with himself in the form of throwing hands and swords with EMIYA, and later matched the typical sword rain Gil uses most of the time, the same kind of sword rain that had killed Berserker.

And then in Stay Night let's not forget that he pulled Caliburn out of his ass to Excali-poke Heracles to death.

I assumed all this 'humans fighting Servants and not dying immediately' was canon, but turns out it was just fanfiction. Mind telling me what fics those are?

Non-Servant Servant level combatants are rare in Fate, but they aren't impossible to find, this is helped by the fact that Servants aren't the automatic death machines you're portraying them as.

Yes, the top-tier Servants would still win, but you do realize that's like saying if you dunk something in the ocean it'll be wet. Way to use something ridiculous (Gilgamesh is OP) to prove you point. Next you'll say First Hassan would kill Shirou in a fight. Or Karna, Arjuna Above God's or Kiara. Those five would kill 95% of Servants without losing a second, what exactly is your point?

They're not in Campiogne fighting Heretic Gods, Servants are not almighty, they have a natural advantage but if they screw up, a human with the right whatever can end them, this rarely is relevant however.

The guy who started this merely wanted to keep things from getting to the point where the Masters sit around the fighting waiting for the Servants to win, that's all. I'm just pointing out that it's not impossible. Especially for Taylor, who's in the same situation as Nero and Drake, who very much could fight Servants evenly, in spite of th fact that they are living humans themselves.
So you've got a bit of a point, but Shirou had Archer's arm. Now that's a very minor 'but' that doesn't really change that he's mostly human at the time, but it does give us a point of comparison: Khepri. The arm gave him a massive amount of power but corrupted his body and spontaneously generated swords inside it eventually causing him to breakdown entirely, much like how Taylor's emergency brain surgery corrupted her mind and destroyed her, even if it briefly gave her the power to throw down with an alien god.

In order for Taylor to win fights with any Servant with any kind of combat reputation without backup, she probably needs to make that kind of sacrifice again. And why would someone who's always fought like a Master make those sacrifices when they've got so many perfectly good Servants on hand?

Or spend a couple years training Celtic magic martial arts with Aife until she's on the same level as Kirei Kotomine, but it's either going to take awhile, or be at horrendous cost.
 
So you've got a bit of a point, but Shirou had Archer's arm. Now that's a very minor 'but' that doesn't really change that he's mostly human at the time, but it does give us a point of comparison: Khepri. The arm gave him a massive amount of power but corrupted his body and spontaneously generated swords inside it eventually causing him to breakdown entirely, much like how Taylor's emergency brain surgery corrupted her mind and destroyed her, even if it briefly gave her the power to throw down with an alien god.

In order for Taylor to win fights with any Servant with any kind of combat reputation without backup, she probably needs to make that kind of sacrifice again. And why would someone who's always fought like a Master make those sacrifices when they've got so many perfectly good Servants on hand?

Or spend a couple years training Celtic magic martial arts with Aife until she's on the same level as Kirei Kotomine, but it's either going to take awhile, or be at horrendous cost.

You underestimate the bullshit of Servants like Chiron's training abilities. The arm didn't actually give Shirou any real power or Servant strength, just loaned skills, and a loaned RM, from the Sakura-focused HF Shirou who either lost his RM entirely, or became incompatible with Archer's UBW. It was very possible for him to integrate it safely with time, and it was the original intention.

UBW Shirou could do the exact same without killing himself, probably better due to not killing himself, he just needs time to polish his blade skills. Remember, heroic spirits can help accelerate any training by fighting a flying tank. Even sparring with Saber with shinai he slowly started managing somewhat.

There's also temporal distortion between Singularities and Chaldea, so a long (months to years) singularity is very possible to gain time for power development.

Lastly, you didn't combat the core of the point - from a Doylist perspective, it's boring having your MC, who literally saved their world, become reduced to a spectator watching and waiting for other Servants to fight and win, made all the more glaring by other humans actually contributing and effectively fighting on the front line, like Nero in Septem. Probably exacerbated that she is known for and used to punching far beyond her weight class throughout Worm, going up against Servants eventually is pretty expected ('queen of escalation, etc.'). Just saying.

Also, I'm not suggesting her to instantly beat up Artoria, but I'm hoping she'll at least be able to fight your average Servant by the Temple on equal ground. At least make motions of getting somewhere.
 
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Lastly, you didn't combat the core of the point - from a Doylist perspective, it's boring having your MC, who literally saved their world, become reduced to a spectator watching and waiting for other Servants to fight and win, made all the more glaring by other humans actually contributing and effectively fighting on the front line, like Nero in Septem. Probably exacerbated that she is known for and used to punching far beyond her weight class throughout Worm, going up against Servants eventually is pretty expected ('queen of escalation, etc.'). Just saying.

Also, I'm not suggesting her to instantly beat up Artoria, but I'm hoping she'll at least be able to fight your average Servant by the Temple on equal ground. At least make motions of getting somewhere.
Taylor is a Master in both senses of the word. When she fights, she uses others. That's not absolute, she has some personal combat training and experience, but it's always her last resort. For Taylor 'getting somewhere' isn't Kung Fu or getting better at magic, it's developing new ways to use the forces under her control. Now in a situation where she finds herself stuck near someone like Medea or Billy the Kid alone I could see her pulling a Rin and jumping into close quarters to gank them with Last Resort before they obliterate her with ranged attacks, but expecting her to be able to take on someone like Atalanta or Astolfo without support from other characters seems like a pipe dream.

Sure she could learn Celtic runes & martial arts, pick up ancient magic bugs from singularities, turn her puppets into relays for her power, and have Shakespeare & Da Vinci collaborate to kit her out in a badass new costume. She'll probably do most of those things, but using all that to personally fight a notable enemy is almost always going to be a terrible misallocation of resources and unacceptable risk when she can summon some Servants and throw Dracula or Medusa or whoever at the problem instead.

In Worm she personally 'upgraded' her capabilities several times, getting better silk, access to flight, a nanothorn knife, etc; but even after all that she never 'levelled up' to the point of being able to personally fight Lung or Hookwolf or Burnscar; she got better at supporting people who could fight heavy hitters instead. She's the character who figures out how to cut Echidna in half with Clockblocker's power or 'safely' nuke Behemoth by collaborating with several capes and she's not foolish enough to think having a nanothorn weapon and some tricks make it a good idea to pick a fight with a Brute alone unless she has no other option.
 
Lastly, you didn't combat the core of the point - from a Doylist perspective, it's boring having your MC, who literally saved their world, become reduced to a spectator watching and waiting for other Servants to fight and win, made all the more glaring by other humans actually contributing and effectively fighting on the front line, like Nero in Septem. Probably exacerbated that she is known for and used to punching far beyond her weight class throughout Worm, going up against Servants eventually is pretty expected ('queen of escalation, etc.'). Just saying.
Honestly this is just the core of the argument you have, I think. It was never if "Taylor could do it" because some combination of support by Servants and training from Taylor could always do that at some point. Even in canon FGO, there were lots of arguments that the canon MC should be able to fight with all of the training and Valentine's gifts they got.

But if you argue that Taylor should be able to fight Servants directly just because she's the protagonist of this story... well, that's a matter of taste, really. Personally, I would hate it if Taylor did do just that because it's just plain meme Taylor Hebert at that point. It's just the usual Queen of Escalation, even if the entire fanmeme ignored Taylor got her name from getting other people to work together in dangerous ways as opposed to what she did by herself. And ignoring my own opinion, I would think the most important opinion here is what the author thinks Taylor should be like over time.
 
Seriously, Taylor's sense of self, morality, or even humanity is fucked seven ways to sunday post-GM, ripe for a RM. She's better now due to the timeskip, but to what degree is the question...
And you ignored what i wrote...having a fucked up mentality doesn't give you a Reality Marble, Shirou had a RM because his origin and element were both sword.

Reality Marbles and Shirou.

These explains better why Taylor wouldn't develop a RM even if she was still Khepri, if we are talking about developing one because of her mental state and ignoring shard shenanigans and hypothetical magecraft skills.
 
That's the theory thus far, but it has yet to be confirmed. And of course, that opens up questions like 'how is Taylor sustaining herself without a contract like what Mash needed?' and 'if Taylor's a Demi-Servant and can sustain herself, how is she so far below Servant parameters that she seems indistinguishable from a regular human in physical prowess, to the point even she hasn't noticed any change?'
There is this one quote of the author's
What would really push it over the edge into creepy and uncanny... She's giving a perfectly ordinary smile, but there are cracks in her face, starting at the corners of her mouth and spiderwebbing across her cheeks, and through those cracks, thousands of tiny eyes peek through — her passenger, no longer properly connected, but always watching.

Or maybe tentacles reaching out from her hair, lovingly caressing her face. Because even if Taylor can't feel it, QA still loves best host.

Beryl: "Nope, nope, nope, nope!"
that seems to put a hole in theories that Taylor is a demi-servant of some sort. This quote is below the media post of Taylor with no mouth, and seems to indicate that QA is was still connected in some fashion with Taylor even prior to her failed summoning and rayshifting. It doesn't completely discount the theory, but it does lend weight to the idea that Taylor's bug control is indeed from a restored connection to QA.
 
Yeah it's restored, because she summoned Khepri as a Heroic Spirit, which included a connection to QA that could be used. There's nothing else that happened that would explan why she didn't have her power before the first summoning.
 
Yeah it's restored, because she summoned Khepri as a Heroic Spirit, which included a connection to QA that could be used. There's nothing else that happened that would explan why she didn't have her power before the first summoning.
Or it could just be that Chaldea being in the middle of a frozen wasteland and exercising stringent hygiene protocols meant that there weren't any insects around for her power to latch onto. It's not as though she got any bugs in the Fuyuki Singularity after doing that first 'botched' summoning either, because the whole place was burning with unholy flames.
 
Here's the thing, Taylor is not the kind of person who gets mad powerups that let her fight stronger and stronger enemies. That's not her thing. Parahuman powers are static, outside of second triggers, that stay the same throughout the bearer's life. It's in the user's creativity, experience, and synergy with others that pull out the potential and strength of the power.

It's the same thing as with One Piece, there are no weak devil fruit powers, just uncreative users.

Giving Taylor a power-up to fight servants would be the same as giving her superstrength after Leviathan hit Brockton so she could fight Alexandria. Worm is a story about dealing with what's dealt to you in life. You can't expect to always be on a level playing field with your opponent.

In a way its similar in Fate GO, even with some legitimate powerhouses, like Merlin and Gilgamesh, not to mention 4 literal goddesses, during the 7th Singularity, it took creativity, improvisation, and conviction to pull out the win against all odds. It's not about power levels or Stat grades, but using what you have to It's maximum potential and being willing to risk it all for the best resolution you can get. Which is Taylor Hebert's specialty.

Yes Taylor won't be brawling with even the weakest of servants, but that's fine. That's never been what she, as a character or a person, has ever been about.
 
While this is all true. The fact remains that for a story to be interesting, there needs to be a reason to care about the characters. If a character doesn't contribute to anything, then there is no reason to care about them, since if they weren't there, it wouldn't matter. Frankly speaking, this is my problem with the twins, and I think Taylor is at risk of falling into the same group.

The twins' main purpose at this point in the story is to further Taylor's characterization and act as extra mana/Command Seals. They don't really contribute to planning, they can't contribute to fights beyond being batteries (which is entirely fair), and they don't even feel like they are invested in reversing the Incineration. They aren't so much characters of their own as they are tools for Taylor to use.
Taylor has contributed more by virtue of being more experienced and having her bugs, but as the Singularities progress and the enemies they encounter become stronger and stronger, those virtues are starting to mean less. Currently, I'm most invested in her dedication to Olga, but as that story begins to wrap up, it remains to be seen if that will remain the case.

Ultimately, I need a reason to care about them, and making jokes and monologuing about what the Servants are doing isn't that. I want people, not talking cardboard cutouts. If messing with power levels and letting them contribute to fights will accomplish that, I'm all for sacrificing Type-Moon lore consistency.
Having said that, I don't think that doing so is necessary. Olga's relationship with Taylor is something that I'm invested in, and there are plenty of other ways to make characters interesting beyond making them punch out Gilgamesh.

Edit: Looking at this again, I don't think my point was clear. I'm not trying to say any of the Masters should be punching out Servants, but that as is, their own contributions to the story don't feel... real to me, punching out Servants lacks that issue since it has a direct impact on the situation the characters are in.
Taylor and Olga's dynamic and Taylor's determination to bring back Olga is what I consider to be the best part of Taylor's character because I can feel that she truly cares about Olga. Most of the other character interactions the Masters' have lack that sense of impact which makes it hard for me to connect with any of them. Despite being stated in the story that much of Rika's jokiness is a coping mechanism, it doesn't really feel like that is the case. Then for Taylor, some of her interactions with the twins have come across to me as being somewhat mean-spirited in a way that I don't think is intended.
Of course, I'm not a writer in any sense of the word, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt.
 
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way i see ritsuka and rika are more characters that have to grow, they're there for taylor to be a mentor to, for her to lead and inspire, this all chekovs gunning and butterfly effecting its way into them developing over the course of the story into their own thing. blank slates effectively that become something over the course of the story, their own unique pieces on the board.

Yeah it's restored, because she summoned Khepri as a Heroic Spirit, which included a connection to QA that could be used. There's nothing else that happened that would explan why she didn't have her power before the first summoning.
i mean, it is entirely possible she did, she spent the entirety of her time after going khepri at chaldea, a base without insects and in Antarctica, then she went to fuyuki which had been turned into a burned-out husk and a smoky hellscape, not exactly bug friendly territory, it's a bit wierd that litteraly no bugs survived, if we go with that theory, but given the scope of what happened, and that only servants are even alive, i would not put it past singularity F just straight up killing all biological life instead of 'just' the humans, whatever killed all humans killing all animal life too. based on that it is entirely possible it really is just at orleans she first encountered insects again.
 
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While this is all true. The fact remains that for a story to be interesting, there needs to be a reason to care about the characters. If a character doesn't contribute to anything, then there is no reason to care about them, since if they weren't there, it wouldn't matter. Frankly speaking, this is my problem with the twins, and I think Taylor is at risk of falling into the same group.

The twins' main purpose at this point in the story is to further Taylor's characterization and act as extra mana/Command Seals. They don't really contribute to planning, they can't contribute to fights beyond being batteries (which is entirely fair), and they don't even feel like they are invested in reversing the Incineration. They aren't so much characters of their own as they are tools for Taylor to use.
Taylor has contributed more by virtue of being more experienced and having her bugs, but as the Singularities progress and the enemies they encounter become stronger and stronger, those virtues are starting to mean less. Currently, I'm most invested in her dedication to Olga, but as that story begins to wrap up, it remains to be seen if that will remain the case.

Ultimately, I need a reason to care about them, and making jokes and monologuing about what the Servants are doing isn't that. I want people, not talking cardboard cutouts. If messing with power levels and letting them contribute to fights will accomplish that, I'm all for sacrificing Type-Moon lore consistency.
Having said that, I don't think that doing so is necessary. Olga's relationship with Taylor is something that I'm invested in, and there are plenty of other ways to make characters interesting beyond making them punch out Gilgamesh.

Rika and Ritsuka are characters, they are Taylor's teammates, the same way the Undersiders and the Chicago Wards were. Taylor is their experienced mentor and leader. Yes the two of them haven't contributed that much to the story in regards to the fights, but keep in mind they have spent several chapters of training, from the simulator battle to their current PT and magic classes with Aife and Waver. They are absolute beginners in terms of being Masters to Servants and mages and are still learning what it means to fight.

But even then, if you only care about characters who are capable in a fight, that's your problem. Stories have far more to offer than just epic fights. Stories are about conflict. Not fights, not battles, not wars, conflict. Romance is a world famous genre of narrative storytelling, and some of the best romance I've read don't focus on the main character's fight to save his girlfriend from the evil overlord, sometimes the conflict is a nervous boy incapable of telling a lie having to keep the truth about the existence of vampires, aliens, and other supernatural beings hidden. Mystery novels are about a battle of the minds, the perfect crime vs the Truth, criminal vs detective, a conflict which never has to end in a fight between hero and villain. Conflict is about opposing forces, but not necessarily fights or battles between characters. Fights are a form of conflict, but not all conflict comes down to a battle of blows.

Fate isn't a world where humans are capable of fighting Servants. That wyvern Taylor killed in a life or death battle at the beginning of Orléans? There's a reason people freak out about that, because humans haven't been capable of killing wyverns one-on-one for centuries, and she wouldn't be able to fight two at the same time. Even Mash, the weakest Servant in Orléans could do that, far easier and safer than Taylor. Taylor even calls it out, she can't keep getting in fights with these magical beasts and she can't even consider actually fighting a Servant in this world. This isn't a world where brute force can win fights, and she shows it off perfectly at the final fight in Septum. She was able to figure out the true identity of Altera and use it to cause that momentary vulnerability to end the fight, her contribution to a fight that involved fighting so intense and fierce she couldn't keep track of all the blows.

And that's perfect! Taylor isn't a badass because she can suplex dragons into the ground and kill invincible heroes in creative and cruel ways, she's a beloved character because she's weak. And she knows that. People like to 'point out' that bug control like she has is a really good power, but people forget that Alexandria was almost literally invincible, or Legend could turn into light, or Lung could turn into a dragon. Bug control was better than she thought, but it was how she used a fairly middling power to overcome superior opponents that was literally the point of Worm. It was Taylor's perspective as someone weak, having to go up against stronger and more impossible challenges, using her powers and teammates strength in creative ways, always having to figure out a clever solution to the problem, to keep fighting, to keep surviving, that made her the Hero of Earth Bet that could challenge Zion and win.

Taylor, Khepri, didn't fight Zion, she mind controlled thousands of parahumans to fight him and buy time. She used the Tinkers to make a superweapon to kill him. And she was able to figure out the truth behind Zion's depression and pain and used it to cause that momentary vulnerability to end the fight.

If you only value characters for their ability to directly contribute to a fight, maybe a story about the mundane humans commanding the greatest superhuman legendary heroes of human history against other superhuman legendary heroes and the legitimate monsters and dragons and Beasts aligned against them isn't for you.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you don't like the direction a story is going or you get tired of it, and that's fine. You don't have to like this story, especially if it's not to your taste. Don't feel like you have to keep reading a story if you don't like the way the characters grow or the ways they don't grow. If you want a story where the main character keeps growing stronger in order to keep fighting ever stronger foes, go for it. There's tons of stories like that, and a lot of them are good.
 
And that's perfect! Taylor isn't a badass because she can suplex dragons into the ground and kill invincible heroes in creative and cruel ways, she's a beloved character because she's weak. And she knows that. People like to 'point out' that bug control like she has is a really good power, but people forget that Alexandria was almost literally invincible, or Legend could turn into light, or Lung could turn into a dragon. Bug control was better than she thought, but it was how she used a fairly middling power to overcome superior opponents that was literally the point of Worm. It was Taylor's perspective as someone weak, having to go up against stronger and more impossible challenges, using her powers and teammates strength in creative ways, always having to figure out a clever solution to the problem, to keep fighting, to keep surviving, that made her the Hero of Earth Bet that could challenge Zion and win.

Yes, but her abilities at least gave her a chance of victory that she could leverage against everyone in the Wormverse, some great, some small - she managed to defeat her greaters leveraging her and sometimes, her allies skills, so that her cleverness gave her a way of taking down her far greaters. I want to see her trademark David vs. Goliath fighting from Bet, one of her most pronounced character traits, which naturally translates to Human vs. Heroic Spirit. It's Nasuverse 'rare' for a normal human to be able to do so, but she's literally on the Throne, a parahuman, and a mage. On top of that, literally every single protagonist in the Nasuverse can eventually fight Servant-level combatants, sometimes uphill, barring Ritsuka, and even many side-characters and heroines can to varying degrees. Thus, it is expected that our MC will be able to as well, eventually, to some extent. Remember, sometimes she did fight alone, through circumstance or separation. she was never dependent on allies other than during the Zion fight.

Right now, Taylor can't even touch them, let alone contribute or fight. She's straight up ineffectual, and in a couple singularities her other tactical abilities will be pretty much useless in the face of even stronger enemies and better allies. I'm not looking for a pure power fantasy, I just don't want a useless damsel as a protagonist who is basically a cheerleader who can basically only spectate while the real heroes fight, a status which she is nearly at, much to my chagrin. It will become worse with the progressively more bullshit foes the more singularities she goes through too, and her basic trickery like calling someone's name, attacking the ineffectually with powerless insects, etc. is pretty much all she can ever do. At that juncture, without the able to compel the narrative herself other than through others and dwindling personal agency in an ever-stronger and more dangerous world, I may as well be reading a novelization of canon following a less hollow protagonist. Why bother caring at that point?

Is it really too much to ask for something in between her present 'weak as dirt' and 'OP plz nerf'?
 
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Is it really too much to ask for something in between her present 'weak as dirt' and 'OP plz nerf'?
To use your own explanation though, as she faces steadily stronger enemies, she'd need to get steadily more bullshit herself to make a physical difference in a fight. Honestly I have enough faith in James as a writer that he's not going to railroad Taylor into uselessness. She'll keep coming up with strategies and tactics that will make a difference, or at least I expect she will.

Also I would not call her weak as dirt. Sure she's not going to be throwing down with Servants, or at least not throwing down with any Servant who has actual combat ability, but against anything less than that she can at least hold her own.
 
literally every single protagonist in the Nasuverse can eventually fight Servant-level combatants, sometimes uphill, barring Ritsuka
That one time when he punched-out Solomon.
More to the point, there a lot of story where it's implied that only Mash helps Guda to deal with things, So Guda is able to fight for himself, even against pretty strong opposition.

On how to keep her relevant: 1. Give her some sunglasses. 2. "Invisible hand of QA" is under-discussed option. Just as bugs perform just a bit better than they should, it be interesting if Taylor herself received subtle buffs, without noticing herself, and lack of... baseline keeps it so.
 
she's literally on the Throne, a parahuman, and a mage.

How does Taylor being a beginner mage help her in any way of accomplishing this supposed goal of fighting Servants in single combat and winning? The only other main character in this story with the similar level of magecraft is the twins and the twins are complete beginners. All other mages are light years beyond Taylor in magecraft. So what idiot savant level of magecraft does Taylor have that allows her to fight Servants. And she is still an absolute novice at runecraft, as she has only had literal hours/days worth of practice in the singularity.

Because it can't be her being a parahuman? She only controls bugs and that doesn't help against servants who are spiritual/magical constructs. Not unless the servant has some fatal weakness to bugs as being part of their legend but I'm unsure how regular bugs would even hurt a spiritual/magical construct that a Servant is.

Is it because there is a version of her on the Throne (completely ignoring the author about Taylor never being a servant in this story)? It can't be that because that would have her become a demi-servant and Chaldea then loses a master. if that is even possible. Or did Chaldea have a critical weakness where any caster servant can hijack the entire system by making themselves into a master?

I'm going to assume that there is no such weakness, so that means Taylor is either a master (which is completely needed) or a demi-servant. And in story, there is zero reason for them to lose Taylor as a master because they have already shown to get powerful Servants. So losing a master is an extreme negative to their situation.

Please, explain to me how any of these examples will somehow allow her to fight against servants? Heck, please explain to me how any of the previously shown Servants in the written singularities will lose against the current Taylor in a fight. Because the people using the grails to create the singularities aren't going to go around and summon purposely weakened servants for Taylor to fight against.

So being on the Throne, a parahuman, or a mage; doesn't guarantee that Taylor can fight against servants one to one and win. Others have posted in this thread good explanations as to why this isn't a problem for a story and also why it doesn't make sense for Taylor to being able to fight against servants.

If for some reason the author decides to have Taylor start one-v-oneing servants, fine. It had better make sense in the context of the story. But as it is written, there is no need for this to happen and there is no need for this to happen. The Chaldean master's already have the perfect counter to the enemy servants, their own Servants.
 
Sure she's not going to be throwing down with Servants, or at least not throwing down with any Servant who has actual combat ability, but against anything less than that she can at least hold her own.

Yeah, but the only real enemies here are increasingly powerful Servant-tier or above enemies, anything she'd have to fight herself can easily be ended by her Servants, so like with the Wyvern, the only reason for her to fight them is her own dwindling pride. It's like tossing someone from RWBY into DBZ and saying that said person can hold their own... if they don't fight anyone of actual consequence in the setting. It's pretty much meaningless, when the entire FGO setting is structured around Servant-level and above combatants, from allies to enemies, not being near that level renders the character incapable.

That one time when he punched-out Solomon.

True. Ritsuka does have balls. Still, he has his own protagonist hax too, being able to hold 300 contracts simultaneously, when most viable masters can have one or two. Not to mention that EX-ranked Charisma, having the ability and moral flexibility to befriend everyone no matter their origin, from the most incorrigible evil beings in existence, to infallible moral paragons, to completely alien existences like BB or Kiara.

Anyways, enough about this, we're starting to become circuitous. We'll see how things go, here's hoping Taylor will meet my hopes, disagree if you want.
 
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She was in for a very rude awakening if we ever met a Heroic Spirit who was actually famous for their culinary skill.

Implying that Emiya isn't a Heroic Spirit famous for his cooking.

You have to admit, "King Arthur's housewife personal chef" sure looks nice on your resume.

But it also makes me imagine Gordon Ramsay as a Heroic Spirit with all the memes

Anyway, since I dropped in to shitpost, gotta say I really enjoy your writing. One of my most favorite Worm post-GM works and easily the best FGO ones. It actually works as a Grand Order novelization for the western audience, really well at that.
 
Implying that Emiya isn't a Heroic Spirit famous for his cooking.

You have to admit, "King Arthur's housewife personal chef" sure looks nice on your resume.

But it also makes me imagine Gordon Ramsay as a Heroic Spirit with all the memes
EMIYA is definitely not (he doesn't have a legend in the first place)... well, gotta wait until (or even if) there's an excuse to bring in Beni-enma.
 
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