Hefusts Explores the Inner Sphere

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

Does the Anvil-class really have literally no cargo capacity? So no space at all for spare parts, replacement armor, or ammo for its birds? Or even supplies for the carrier and crew?

Assuming it's a little better than that so we don't need to slice off an internal bay from the standard design... here's a draft, though maybe not the best one.

[Configuration] [] Suzerain gives up 12 mech bays (1800 tons of space) for a 500 ton command center and 1300 tons of internal storage. Divine Bench converts mech bay to small craft bay. All other bays remain as default.

The idea being we'll carry 6 to 12 traditional starfighters in addition to 14 ASF.

tomwritestuff said:
In its standard configuration, it has 30 crew... and no space for passengers or marines. The Suzerain similarly has by default no space for marines or passengers.

The Mallet and Divine Bench each have berths for 12 marines or passengers. If you want marines and passengers ... okay, I've added passenger space to the list of things you might want to burn some bay space to obtain, and that might be a good idea for personnel redundancy or for additional marines if you want to bring more than 24 total.

Probably want to put some additional personnel space into the Suzerain and maybe also the Obelisk then.

Gmerguy · Jan 15, 2023

Aineko said:
Not really, no. They might need battlemechs, but they don't have to pick just one foreign industrial power to tie themselves to. None of the Nudezret powers appear to require exclusivity. The CIC in particular is hard to see as more than a peer.

...Heck, they could even try for an out-of-system supplier, though the IS is not really a buyer's market for Battlemechs.

...What? There's no possible referent for "they" that makes this work. The Hefustians have the Obelisk, no further claiming required, and (if we assume the new Commodore's read is the same as the government's) are getting it where it can't be stolen by the neighbors. The people I said have written off claiming the Obelisk are the Nukashubans, which they textually did (not enthusiastically, but they did do it), but the rest of the paragraph makes no sense applied to Nukashuba.

Everything we have on Hefustus states they have limited (but high tech) production capacity, which is fine when they are supporting a small high tech military force for defense like they were before the quest. Its not fine when they have to rapidly expand said force in the face of everyone else rapidly expanding their forces due to the system wide arms race that started at the beginning of the quest. And its not just battlemechs their bottlenecked for producing everything, from ground units to spaceships. This is the reason why Nukashubans tolerates them having the Monitor, the Hefustian's have no way to leverage it to make more jumpships and are probably going to have a hard time maintaining it.

As for claiming the jumpship don't forget how critical Jumptech is right now in system, how much the Nudzretian's want it, and how much the Nukashubans want to monopolize it. Given that the ship was claimed during a joint operation there is a legal avenue that the Hefustians shouldn't have it, or at the very least other factions should have access to it regardless of the fact the Hefustian's were the ones who seized the ship, or even that no one should have it. To put it bluntly it doesn't matter if they claimed it if no one else is willing to recognize that claim and is willing to use force on the matter. The fact that Hefustus is a minor power doesn't help things, because this issue really could spark a war in the worst case scenario that they would be the underdog in. Keeping it out of system is a means of delaying this issue.

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

Gmerguy said:
Everything we have on Hefustus states they have limited (but high tech) production capacity, which is fine when they are supporting a small high tech military force for defense like they were before the quest. Its not fine when they have to rapidly expand said force in the face of everyone else rapidly expanding their forces due to the system wide arms race that started at the beginning of the quest. And its not just battlemechs their bottlenecked for producing everything, from ground units to spaceships. This is the reason why Nukashubans tolerates them having the Monitor, the Hefustian's have no way to leverage it to make more jumpships and are probably going to have a hard time maintaining it.

Only...that's not how it works. That's not how it ever could work. They aren't a great power, and they know it. Hefusts is running out of the minor power playbook. But 'pick a protector' is only one of the options in that, and Hefusts history likely makes them averse to that choice.

Gmerguy said:
As for claiming the jumpship don't forget how critical Jumptech is right now in system, how much the Nudzretian's want it, and how much the Nukashubans want to monopolize it. Given that the ship was claimed during a joint operation there is a legal avenue that the Hefustians shouldn't have it, or at the very least other factions should have access to it regardless of the fact the Hefustian's were the ones who seized the ship, or even that no one should have it. To put it bluntly it doesn't matter if they claimed it if no one else is willing to recognize that claim and is willing to use force on the matter. The fact that Hefustus is a minor power doesn't help things, because this issue really could spark a war in the worst case scenario that they would be the underdog in. Keeping it out of system is a means of delaying this issue.

Did you literally not read the epilogue to the previous expedition? The Nukashubans looked at the possibility of seizing the Monolith and realized it was a terrible idea. They'd have liked to but it wasn't strategically defensible.

That is, there's at least one great power in Papolris that is not trying to deprive the Hefustians of the jumpship. Harder to say if there's a second one, it's true. But as I said before, I suspect the Nukashubans would in fact lean against any Nudezret faction getting it.

Gmerguy · Jan 15, 2023

Aineko said:
Did you literally not read the epilogue to the previous expedition? The Nukashubans looked at the possibility of seizing the Monolith and realized it was a terrible idea. They'd have liked to but it wasn't strategically defensible.

That is, there's at least one great power in Papolris that is not trying to deprive the Hefustians of the jumpship. Harder to say if there's a second one, it's true. But as I said before, I suspect the Nukashubans would in fact lean against any Nudezret faction getting it.

I read it

tomwritestuff said:
Around another table in another star system, another Nukashuban rubbed his temples in annoyance at the same time as Admiral Jenever Kinston.

"Look, I get it. It'd be much better for us if we controlled all the interstellar vessels, and there's no way that Admiral Kinston simply assigned Commodore Hale that ship as salvage. But we don't want to alienate everyone else in the Nuzhup orbit by trying to keep it to ourselves by force. We do that and all the wags will say we're trying to be like the Elders before the Defenestration of Slakecitu and the Schism Wars. And they'd be right." He looked around the table. "If we let them have it, so what? It's just one ship. Nobody else in the system has the scale of ship-building expertise needed to build jumpships successfully."

The only thing there is that they decided that trying to take the ships for themselves would alienate everyone else. Not that they said it publicly or that everyone agrees. Moreover, this seems pretty conditional on there not being a way to leverage the ship beyond using it.

So from the Hefustian point of view there is 5 factions that want that ship for themselves or want access to the ship to learn how to make it and have the capacity to force them to give it up abet at loses. If two of them team up on it then they have no options but to turn to another power for an alliance. And the only reason this hasn't happened is because of politics, which can change at any time and not in their favor. And even if the Nukashubans went public all that does is drop the number from 5 to 4.

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

Gmerguy said:
The only thing there is that they decided that trying to take the ships for themselves would alienate everyone else. Not that they said it publicly or that everyone agrees. Moreover, this seems pretty conditional on there not being a way to leverage the ship beyond using it.

So from the Hefustian point of view there is 5 factions that want that ship for themselves or want access to the ship to learn how to make it and have the capacity to force them to give it up abet at loses. If two of them team up on it then they have no options but to turn to another power for an alliance. And the only reason this hasn't happened is because of politics, which can change at any time and not in their favor. And even if the Nukashubans went public all that does is drop the number from 5 to 4.

...Right, so if you look, what I said was that the Hefustians were wrong in their belief that nobody would tolerate them having the jumpship. And what you're saying is the Hefustians don't know they're wrong about that, which...yes, that's how being wrong normally works.

TheOmnimercurial · Jan 15, 2023

Well.... I would rather Support the UCSR than their opponents.

Ideally though, maybe we can lean into Nukashuba and Nuhai for additional concessions?

Tech is not really enough alone given this group is sophisticated in that way though lacking in amounts of industrial output.

I think the idea of a Large Mech that is Uparmed is the way to go if we only consider what we get following upgrades.

Politically though I either want to maintain a balance (likely not sustainable long term) or act to spite the idiots that put an Espresso machine in a Mech but abandoned their Pilot.

If we must tilt things then let's ensure the least idiotic win.

Gmerguy · Jan 15, 2023

TheOmnimercurial said:
Well.... I would rather Support the UCSR than their opponents.

....Please don't forget that the USCR are not the good guys. They literally control the reproduction of their citizens, run 're-education' camps, and just as expansionist. They just call it establishing the 'true' government of a place rather than what it is.

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

Gmerguy said:
....Please don't forget that the USCR are the good guys. They literally control the reproduction of their citizens, run 're-education' camps, and just as expansionist. They just call it establishing the 'true' government of a place rather than what it is.

Are not the good guys, obviously. Yeah. The UCSR are terrible. The USNN are also pretty terrible, but that doesn't make their opponents less of a quasi-Stalinist nightmare.

(Numexinova's best hope might honestly be for the war to escalate so much that the great powers stop caring about the Newmexinovan front and they have a chance of independence in the eventual post-war settlement. That's not a very good hope.)

I'll note that the USNN isn't being more 'honest' about their role here. They're maintaining that West Numexinova is the rightful government. Perfectly normal civil war as proxy war in that respect. We'll likely never know how Numexinova might have gone without the neighbors leaning in or whether either of the factions is more legitimate than the other.

tomwritestuff · Jan 15, 2023

Aineko said:
Also, I don't really care about whether they're good to fly. At least not for Nukashuba. If Hale managed to snag any Lucifers they might be useful in the other thread...

To clarify this comment from the other thread: Because space fighting capability is absolutely essential to Hefustian security, the ASF fighters that Hale got his hands on are going straight to R&D as they work feverishly on developing native Hefustian ASF production.

BattleMechs are cool shiny toys that they're willing to chuck out there on an expedition. Samples of novel ASF technology that they can't replicate yet are staying with Rear Admiral Henderson. Seraphs, well, those are great, but also stopgaps and the Nukashubans may or may not produce more of them.

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

That said, from a pox on both their houses perspective I do prefer if doing favors for either USNN or UCSR to try to lean UCSR because they seem to be the underdog and we need them standing to maintain a balance of power. (Less true for Nukashuba, but still kinda true.)

TheOmnimercurial said:
Ideally though, maybe we can lean into Nukashuba and Nuhai for additional concessions?

Wait, what could you possibly angle to get out of Nuhai? They don't have tech or industry.

Gmerguy · Jan 15, 2023

tomwritestuff said:
To clarify this comment from the other thread: Because space fighting capability is absolutely essential to Hefustian security, the ASF fighters that Hale got his hands on are going straight to R&D as they work feverishly on developing native Hefustian ASF production.

BattleMechs are cool shiny toys that they're willing to chuck out there on an expedition. Samples of novel ASF technology that they can't replicate yet are staying with Rear Admiral Henderson. Seraphs, well, those are great, but also stopgaps and the Nukashubans may or may not produce more of them.

Is there a reason why they prefer the Seraph over the Lancer?

Aineko said:
That said, from a pox on both their houses perspective I do prefer if doing favors for either USNN or UCSR to try to lean UCSR because they seem to be the underdog and we need them standing to maintain a balance of power. (Less true for Nukashuba, but still kinda true.)

Wait, what could you possibly angle to get out of Nuhai? They don't have tech or industry.

Manpower? Nuhai does have a military including mechs and aerospace units.

Aineko · Jan 15, 2023

Gmerguy said:
Manpower? Nuhai does have a military including mechs and aerospace units.

Manpower how, used for what? I mean, the proposal was seeking 'concessions' from Nuhai, and I'm at a loss for what that would be. I mean, Hefusts could use food shipments probably but that's getting way out of scope of the mission at hand.

Gmerguy · Jan 15, 2023

Aineko said:
Manpower how, used for what? I mean, the proposal was seeking 'concessions' from Nuhai, and I'm at a loss for what that would be. I mean, Hefusts could use food shipments probably but that's getting way out of scope of the mission at hand.

Shrug? i mean they got to have an economy based on something other than tourism? Given there lack of space given the island nature of the moon that would normally be electronics but that is Nukashuba's thing so... maybe medical stuff?

TheOmnimercurial · Jan 16, 2023

Biosciences maybe? Could help with the Exosuit needing people's physiology?

tomwritestuff · Jan 16, 2023

The info posts should have relatively complete relevant information now, including the top-line summary of what we've seen so far of the BattleMech-building capabilities of the various Nudezret powers. This may influence your selection if you go with "please copy this Inner Sphere BattleMech" as your added BattleMech selection, as the outcome of trying to copy the design is likely to be different depending on the existing capabilities of the copying power.

Those cababilities are generally improving over time; certainly Nukashuban experts are actively trying to teach the CIC how to build compact 200-rated fusion engines for the IslandMech and the PRSN how to build compact 180-rated fusion engines for the 216b. You'd be sending (or rather, retroactively would already have sent) Hefustian experts who would be actively trying to assist with the transfer of technical knowledge in support of the BattleMech project.

Note - endo-composite structure requires orbital manufacturing facilities operating in microgravity.

Aineko said:
Does the Anvil-class really have literally no cargo capacity? So no space at all for spare parts, replacement armor, or ammo for its birds? Or even supplies for the carrier and crew?

There's a small amount of built-in space for parts in bays, but yes, it lacks space for significant racks of munitions etc. Ammo supply for multiple combats was a major issue on the last expedition.

Hefustian ships are designed mainly to operate defensively.

Gmerguy said:
Is there a reason why they prefer the Seraph over the Lancer?

Stealth capabilities.

Gmerguy · Jan 16, 2023

tomwritestuff said:
Stealth capabilities.

...But they refit everything to have stealth? is there a reason why they can't do this with the Lancer?

tomwritestuff · Jan 16, 2023

Gmerguy said:
...But they refit everything to have stealth? is there a reason why they can't do this with the Lancer?

Point taken.

The export version of the Lancer uses external hardpoints for ordnance, the Seraph has an enclosed bay for ordnance, so it's not a perfect solution, and the price tag does creep up fairly high for buying Lancers and then fitting them with stealth armor ... but it still certainly makes sense for them to do it.

Aineko · Jan 16, 2023

tomwritestuff said:
The info posts should have relatively complete relevant information now, including the top-line summary of what we've seen so far of the BattleMech-building capabilities of the various Nudezret powers. This may influence your selection if you go with "please copy this Inner Sphere BattleMech" as your added BattleMech selection, as the outcome of trying to copy the design is likely to be different depending on the existing capabilities of the copying power.

Those cababilities are generally improving over time; certainly Nukashuban experts are actively trying to teach the CIC how to build compact 200-rated fusion engines for the IslandMech and the PRSN how to build compact 180-rated fusion engines for the 216b. You'd be sending (or rather, retroactively would already have sent) Hefustian experts who would be actively trying to assist with the transfer of technical knowledge in support of the BattleMech project.

Note - endo-composite structure requires orbital manufacturing facilities operating in microgravity.

Obviously, none of the IS mechs use endo-composite structure in their original form. Does this imply we might get some Nudezret technical enhancements if we work with someone (probably the USNN) who knows how?

The RSU or USNN might be the safer partners for the Banshee Build plan, with USNN being the more likely provider of a (rather valuable) structure upgrade. (USNN Banshees could become a significant improvement over their Warmasters...for good or ill.)

TheOmnimercurial · Jan 17, 2023

@tomwritestuff
What is Nuhai's main source of Revenue and their Primary field of expertise?

Adnate · Jan 17, 2023

TheOmnimercurial said:
@tomwritestuff
What is Nuhai's main source of Revenue and their Primary field of expertise?

Revenue would be food exports and tourism.
Expertise would be boats. /s

Aineko · Jan 17, 2023

Adnate said:
Expertise would be boats. /s

High stakes fishing.

tomwritestuff · Jan 17, 2023

TheOmnimercurial said:
@tomwritestuff
What is Nuhai's main source of Revenue and their Primary field of expertise?

As far as the import / export game goes, they get money from agriculture, aquaculture, tourism, and a few specialty items (e.g., solar panels). Nuhai doesn't have a lot of heavy industry outside of shipbuilding, or in particular a lot of military industry, which is why they're not a potential BattleMech manufacturing partner here.

The areas where Nuhaian scientists are most likely to be on the bleeding edge of the system include horticulture, astronomy, xenobiology, ecology, and hydrology. They're specifically less interested in human genetics, which is something of a common preoccupation in the rest of the system (but most especially the UCSR).

TheOmnimercurial · Jan 17, 2023

tomwritestuff said:
As far as the import / export game goes, they get money from agriculture, aquaculture, tourism, and a few specialty items (e.g., solar panels). Nuhai doesn't have a lot of heavy industry outside of shipbuilding, or in particular a lot of military industry, which is why they're not a potential BattleMech manufacturing partner here.

The areas where Nuhaian scientists are most likely to be on the bleeding edge of the system include horticulture, astronomy, xenobiology, ecology, and hydrology. They're specifically less interested in human genetics, which is something of a common preoccupation in the rest of the system (but most especially the UCSR).

Could we maybe draw upon their knowledge and expertise to incorporate Biomimetic Technologies in Mechs?

I have long thought that Myomers would really benefit from such a focus....

Hellteddy · Jan 19, 2023

I'm thinking something like this?
I'm weary of dealing with the other nations, maybe try and woo the little guys(Partnership with CIC)

[Skills] [] Leadership CHA/WIS from MW3?

[Configuration] [] (default)

[] [Partnership] The Hefustian government has taken stock of its BattleMechs, and embarked on a secret joint project with a Nudzretian partner to produce close copies of one of the BattleMechs it has received using Hefustian technological expertise and Nudezretian industrial capacity. This arrangement has been secret. Choose a BattleMech and a Nudezretian partner.
-[] SHD-2H Shadowhawk
-[] Confederacy of Independent Cities

[] [Partnership] The Hefustian government has made arrangements with the Nukashuban government to rush the import of ten less-popular export-grade BattleMechs in exchange for committing to bringing twenty Nukashuban ~~spies~~ passengers along on the expedition.
-[] RSU Blackjack (upgrade)

[] [Partnership] The USNN's information on the Marauder was not, in fact, a USNN intelligence coup, but the result of behind the scenes negotiation between the two powers. You have ten Marauder-Catapults upgraded to Hefustian standards.

tomwritestuff · Jan 19, 2023

This post should fill in the last gaps in the "What other military equipment do Hefustians have, anyway?" question.

Hefustian Standard Marine Armor BattleArmor
Hefustian Standard Marine Armor BattleArmor
Type: Hefustian Standard Marine Armor
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown

Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Chassis Type: Biped
Weight Class: Ultra Light/PA(L)/Exoskeleton
Maximum Weight: 400 kg
Battle Value: 70
Swarm/Leg Attack/Mechanized/AP: Yes/Yes/Yes/No

Equipment		Slots	Mass
Chassis:			80 kg
Motive System:
Ground MP:	3		50 kg
Jump MP:	3		75 kg
Manipulators:
Left Arm:	Armored Gloves		0 kg
Right Arm:	Armored Gloves		0 kg
Armor:	Standard (Basic)	0	100 kg
Armor Value:	2 + 1 (Trooper)

Weapons and Equipment	Location	Slots (Capacity)	Mass
Extended Life Support	Body	1	25 kg
Cutting Torch	Right Arm	1	5 kg
Anti Personnel Weapon Mount	Body	1	5 kg
Anti Personnel Weapon Mount	Left Arm	1	5 kg
Anti Personnel Weapon Mount	Right Arm	1	5 kg
Fuel Tank	Left Arm	1	50 kg

Marine Expeditionary Vehicle Hefustian Heavy Combat Vehicle
Marine Expeditionary Vehicle Hefustian Heavy Combat Vehicle
Mass: 40 tons
Movement Type: Wheeled
Power Plant: 180 Fission
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
1 Light AC/2
1 ER Flamer
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 2945
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-D
Cost: 1,199,400 C-bills

Overview
The MEV is the heaviest (and currently only) tank in Hefustian service. Capable of carrying a full detachment of 12 Hefustian marines in their exoskeletons, tens of MEVs were used in the Nuhai theater of the Fifth System War. It did not exist at the time of the Fourth System War, contrary to the intimations of such cinematic masterpieces as "Hell First: Liberty and Death in the Slave Pits!", "Hell Second: Hell Harder!!", "Hell III: Not For Thee!!!", and "Ride Hell 4 Leather!!!!"

Capabilities
The MEV has two weapons, a long-ranged main cannon capable of loading armor-piercing munitions, flak, or standard ammunition, and a coaxial plasma vent, which has lent it a terrifying reputation in Nudezretian cinema during a recent fad for poorly-researched films on the Fourth System War.

Type: Marine Expeditionary Vehicle
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 335

Equipment		Mass
Internal Structure		4
Engine	180 Fission	19
Cruising MP:	5
Flanking MP:	8
Heat Sinks:	5	0
Control Equipment:		2
Power Amplifier:		0
Turret:		0.5
Armor Factor:	80	5

	Internal Structure	Armor Value
Front	4	20
R/L Side	4/4	15/15
Rear	4	10
Turret	4	20

Weapons and Ammo	Location	Critical	Tonnage
ER Flamer	Turret	1	1
Light AC/2	Turret	1	4
CASE	Body	1	0.5
LAC/2 Ammo (45)	Body	1	1
Infantry	Body	1	3

Rebel Mining Exoskeleton
Type: Rebel
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown

Tech Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Chassis Type: Biped
Weight Class: Heavy
Maximum Weight: 1,500 kg
Battle Value: 398
Swarm/Leg Attack/Mechanized/AP: No/No/Yes/No

Equipment		Slots	Mass
Chassis:			300 kg
Motive System:
Ground MP:	2		80 kg
Jump MP:	0		0 kg
Manipulators:
Left Arm:	Heavy Vibro-Claw		60 kg
Right Arm:	Industrial Drill		30 kg
Armor:	Stealth (Standard)	4	480 kg
Armor Value:	8 + 1 (Trooper)

Weapons and Equipment	Location	Slots (Capacity)	Mass
Extended Life Support	Body	1	25 kg
Searchlight	Body	1	5 kg
Heavy Flamer	Body	1	350 kg
Improved Sensors	Body	1	65 kg
Single-Hex ECM	Body	1	100 kg
Cutting Torch	Right Arm	1	5 kg
Vibro-Shovel	None	0	0 kg
Demolition Charge	None	0	0 kg

Aphrodite Atmospheric Defense Fighter (Hefusts)
Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Unknown
Power Plant: 200 Fission
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Armor: Vehicular Stealth
Armament:
2 Flamer
1 Large Laser
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 2978
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 1,619,880 C-bills

Mass: 40 tons
Frame: Unknown
Power Plant: 200 Fission
Armor: Vehicular Stealth
Armament:
2 Flamer
1 Large Laser
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 2978
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 1,619,880 C-bills

Type: Aphrodite
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 424

Equipment		Mass
Engine	200 Fission	15
Safe Thrust:	5
Max Thrust:	8
Structural Integrity:	0
Heat Sinks:	12[24]	7
Fuel:	480	3
Cockpit:		4
Armor Factor (Vehicular Stealth):	40	3

	Armor Value
Nose	10
Wings	10/10
Aft	10

Weapons and Ammo	Location	Tonnage	Heat	SRV	MRV	LRV	ERV
Large Laser	NOS	5	8	8	8	0	0
ECM Suite	AFT	1.5	-	-	-	-	-
Flamer	LW	1	3	2	0	0	0
Flamer	RW	1	3	2	0	0	0

Hefusts Explores the Inner Sphere

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