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Going To Make A Krillin! (Dragon Ball SI)

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Modus_Tollens said:
The original, pre-DBZ, Dragonball setting was freaking amazing for the layers of bullshit it was dripping with. And DBZ wasn't all that much of a slouch itself, even if it tended to wander out into fairly uninteresting tangents.

The story takes place on a massive, pangaea-style supercontinent... which may or may not be the only one... and a few outlying archipelagos. Its a world still reeling from the scourging of the Demon King Piccolo three hundred years ago, the survivors having mostly clustered into five cities that barely even bothered to have names: Titling themselves after the four cardinal directions they were arrayed in and then their capital 'Central'. You have to get beaten down hard to give up on even having proper names. There is so much empty there.

You have actual demons, nominally directed by Shula, periodically erupting onto the planet in what I honestly consider more of a particularly rowdy bar crawl than a proper invasion. Apparently demonic or external intrusion is prevented by the diety Annin of the Furnace of Eight Divisions. You can walk to the gate of the dead. Kami acts as planet-scale god on appointment from the bloody weird, but typical for eastern mythology, celestial bureaucracy and with the backing of an outright lovecraftian gravemind thing of all previous guardians of the earth. And that is before we get into any of the vaguely comedic bullshit.

It gets glossed over a lot, but there is some serious crazy there just from a worldbuilding standpoint.
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Yeah, this in a nutshell. I've been trying to write a Goku SI since 2015 titled "To Become a Beacon of Hope" with some AU inserted in, trying to take full advantage of all the bullshit that Toriyama wrote. It's pretty much impossible. Between the post-apocalyptic setting of King Piccolo and everything else you've said, it's almost impossible to take full advantage of everything. That's without taking into account the fact that we don't even know what the event that marks year 0 of their calendar is. Or, for example, the map has some frightening similarities to post 2300 AD Chrono Trigger map. Or where exactly have all the magic users gone? Did they all get killed during the King Piccolo wars? The only one we see that isn't a martial artist is Baba, and she's OLD. Or, for example, the technological disparity between where Mutaito and Master Roshi lived and the final battle with King Piccolo, with one clearly showing an 18th century Japanese aesthetic and the other a 20th-century Western aesthetic.

The whole story of DB (not DBZ) is so full of potential to fill with extra information that Toriyama never did that you could write entire stories of those time periods.
 
Honestly, your commentary is really killing my interest in this story. Having some gripes is fair, but you don't even seem to like Dragonball. You keep freaking out over basic setting material like you didn't already know about it, on top of the irrelevant things you keep whining about, on top of the things you're flat out wrong about, on top of several dubious proposed setting changes, on top of all the stuff you plain just don't like. I guess the take-away from this is to engage your audience less? Or relax more. Either way, you don't paint a good picture of your talent as a writer or a reader.
 
Philosophysics said:
...I like to wait a while. Gather up all the comments. Answer them all in one go.

But...

What.
The.
Fuck.

There's furry drugs?

WHAT THE FUCK!?

THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS ARE-- WHAT THE FUCK!?

The Dragon can't change species of people, but THERE'S A FUCKING DRUG FOR THIS!?

the bioengineering required for this would be-- THEY HAVE THE HOLY GRA...

Fuck holy grail, this is... this is... I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS, BUT THIS IS BULLSHIT!

They have the ability to basically redesign the human body and you're telling me that Goku dies from a heart attack!?

What the fuck!?

AND DOGS!? WHY DOGS!?

...Toriyama. You pain me with all your cool ideas that are forgotten.
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Remember this is the same race that has people like Gero, Bulma, Dr. Slump, and Prof. Briefs. The furry drug was probably released by one of the more benevolent mad scientists.
 
Spoiler'd cuz it's a long response.

Philosophysics said:
So i'm halfway done with the chapter! Finished the monkey fight scene! Just have to write a Roshi scene and then posted.

For now... HAVE SOME DISCUSSION!

...

AND ROSHI'S SISTER AND HER ARMY OF MONSTERS!?
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There was this devil(?) who could one shot you if you had evil in your heart.

Philosophysics said:
I reread Dragon Ball. Frieza's army had a guy who could freeze time for as long as he held his breath.

Let me reiterate. There is canonically a fat, purple FUCKER WHO CAN FREEZE TIME!?

What the fuck!? Stopping time is just a casual ability that's relegated to one of the grunts!? WTF, Toriyama!?

You could have hadthe other characters fight these guys. Instead of having your Mary Sue just fight everybody. WHAT THE FUCK!?

And I am planning to use D&D ideas for this. Spoilers, each and every one of the cast is a Monk. What their subclass is makes it interesting.
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Do you remember Colonel Blue? He could freeze you or make unbreakable rope alowing him to hit above his weight class.


Philosophysics said:
BUT WHAT THE FUCK, TORIYAMA!? Why did you forget so much earlier worldbuilding!?

Fun fact, did you know that furries are a thing? Furries are a fucking thing in this world. Like actual wolf people on planet earth that are just treated normally

until they flat out disappeared in DBZ.

WHERE ARE THE FURRIES, TORIYAMA!? SHOW US THE FURRIES, YOU COWARD!
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King Furry is the King of the Earth. I think he still is.

Philosophysics said:
There's also way more SIs then just SI!Krillin.

By SI, I mean people who got dumped into Dragon Ball at different times with varying memories.
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It would be fun seeing other SI's cause even more derails. RRA Leader, Dr. Gero or Dr. Breifs I hope?

Philosophysics said:
Picture Yamcha being a one man baseball team with his Ki Wolves in jersey.
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Hnnn I cn picture a Coach Yamcha teaching Wolf Fang Fist style baseball to little leaguers.

Philosophysics said:
Was it Jackie Chan? No, that's licensed.

Hm... Maybe not.
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Jackie Chun... I think.

Philosophysics said:
If an alien can be a werewolf, so can Yamcha.

And yes. Since most of you already guessed it, yes, the goal is for Yamcha to get Ki Wolf summons.

That or tame a wolf that he bonds with Ki.
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Doesn't he already have Puar? They're a flying cat, but they do have the transformation magic.


Philosophysics said:
Thanks. I am getting better but one of my rommates has a cough so... i'm worried.
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I hope he only has the generic cough and not the crown special.

Philosophysics said:
Dragon: "...Panties."

Oolong: "I wish for a pair of panties!"
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Give him Scarron's panties perhaps?
 
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You know, we're told that Senzu Beans take a long time to grow but they must be producing a minimum of six per month to feed Kirin and Yajirobe. Almost certainly more given that they have enough lying around for Yajirobe to eat two entire handfuls of them that one time.
 
Charlezany said:
Reminder there is nothing that prevent krillin from learning the transformation technique from Puar, which while not useful for improving his ki-derived strength, will solve his height and reach issues in combat, and should let him replicate many of piccollos techniques and fly under his own power without the sky walking technique from the Crane school.
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I figure that there is some unstated, but very real, reason that shapeshifting isn't something a broad segment of the population learns. Some drawback that just makes it less than a uniformly good life choice, at least for everyone.

This could be psychological. It could be some lasting physical alteration, fudging of your own body's plan, like how Puar really doesn't look like a cat anymore. At best Puar is an abstraction of a cat that is floating around without fingers and whose biological gender is really hard to get across. It could be just something like sterility, 'normal' biological processes just giving the fuck up when it comes to figuring out how to make a stable sperm or egg cell that works with an external counterpart.

With animal people, eh, could make sense? At that point you are a minority and, even if nobody is crapping on you as hard as they very much would if this was real life, being able to go anywhere and be anything is nice. There would be a strong market there. At least strong enough to populate several schools, seeing as Puar and Oolong trained at the Southern Transformation Kindergarten.

It also might be one of those things you have to start damn, damn young.
kingtaso01 said:
Yeah, this in a nutshell. I've been trying to write a Goku SI since 2015 titled "To Become a Beacon of Hope" with some AU inserted in, trying to take full advantage of all the bullshit that Toriyama wrote. It's pretty much impossible. Between the post-apocalyptic setting of King Piccolo and everything else you've said, it's almost impossible to take full advantage of everything. That's without taking into account the fact that we don't even know what the event that marks year 0 of their calendar is. Or, for example, the map has some frightening similarities to post 2300 AD Chrono Trigger map. Or where exactly have all the magic users gone? Did they all get killed during the King Piccolo wars? The only one we see that isn't a martial artist is Baba, and she's OLD. Or, for example, the technological disparity between where Mutaito and Master Roshi lived and the final battle with King Piccolo, with one clearly showing an 18th century Japanese aesthetic and the other a 20th-century Western aesthetic.

The whole story of DB (not DBZ) is so full of potential to fill with extra information that Toriyama never did that you could write entire stories of those time periods.
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Piccolo murdered the world. In his second emergence, he specifically targeted any and every martial artist strong enough to threaten him even in his sleep. It wouldn't surprise me if he considered magic users even more dangerous the first time around since, well, they bend the rules to the point they become black holes of pure shenanigans. Uranai Baba probably lived because she was the sister of Roshi, and presumably on passable terms with Shen and Tao (who was a two year old when Piccolo started his scourging but who was probably fighting for his life by the end of it). Though I would wonder if she managed to actually hide in the Other World, or at least it's doorstep, with whoever taught her magic in the first place. Dealing with the dead is a major part of her magical portfolio.

Her pet devil was definitely her finding a comfort blanket in case he returned though.

Note that Uranai Baba and Muten Roshi aren't names. They are vaguely descriptive titles. Those two literally outlived the use of their own names and chose not to spread them. They are doing their damnedest to fade out of the history books despite being absolute game changers. They have to be doing this for a reason for a very, very long time.
 
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You know this story just makes me want to all the more see a si goku that goes evil route or semi evil while also wanting to see this story have krillion go more skilled then garou
 
Saint of Witches said:
Honestly, your commentary is really killing my interest in this story. Having some gripes is fair, but you don't even seem to like Dragonball. You keep freaking out over basic setting material like you didn't already know about it, on top of the irrelevant things you keep whining about, on top of the things you're flat out wrong about, on top of several dubious proposed setting changes, on top of all the stuff you plain just don't like. I guess the take-away from this is to engage your audience less? Or relax more. Either way, you don't paint a good picture of your talent as a writer or a reader.
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To paraphrase a quote, "Nobody hates a fandom quite as much as its own fans."

I love Dragon Ball. It's one of my childhood manga that I read. It's a great and fun show that had awesome fight scenes and memorable characters. It's just that the world-building is... less than subpar.

There's a lot of things that I wish were explored more. My 'gripes' were supposed to be comedic overreactions. Dragon ball as a community tends to thrive on over-the-top reactions to things. I'm looking at this setting from a writer's POV and there's just so many ways that this story could've gone.

Stayed a fantasy story with magic and muscle wizards.
Explore the Red Ribbon Army's origins and story.
Discuss why the Nameless Namekian came to Earth.

There's a lot of things. Dragon Ball as a whole is kind of just about Goku getting stronger. He's a static character. He doesn't really change from being a nice guy who likes to fight from the beginning to the end.

Static characters can be fun. Look at Luffy. He's fun because he barely changes. Sure, he does become a bit smarter and stronger, but ultimately, he's still just a guy who wants to become the pirate king. The fun in static characters is seeing how the world changes around them.

There's some of that in Dragon Ball, but... not quite as much as I'd like. Or if there is, it feels more that the world changes so that only Goku can save the day. Rereading Dragon Ball has been bittersweet for me because I'm coming back to it with more experience and all the flaws have just popped out all the more for me.

I still love it. It's one of my first anime/manga along with Ranma 1/2 and One Piece, but... Yeah.

If I had to choose my absolute favorite manga, I would have to choose One Piece on account of how it balances it's story with its worldbuilding in a way so seamless that it feels on par with Tolkien. Seriously, go check it out, there's so many little details in the background and history.

I'm writing this just for fun. Mind telling me which parts of the world-building seem iffy? And why?

Also the last part about how I'm not showing myself to be a good reader or writer kind of hurt, not going to lie. It's understandable with what I've been writing, but please have more tact next time. I was just trying to do a bit.

Also Dragon Ball was originally a gag manga.
 
Philosophysics said:
Static characters can be fun. Look at Luffy. He's fun because he barely changes. Sure, he does become a bit smarter and stronger, but ultimately, he's still just a guy who wants to become the pirate king. The fun in static characters is seeing how the world changes around them.

There's some of that in Dragon Ball, but... not quite as much as I'd like. Or if there is, it feels more that the world changes so that only Goku can save the day. Rereading Dragon Ball has been bittersweet for me because I'm coming back to it with more experience and all the flaws have just popped out all the more for me.
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I'm reminded of Pirates of the Caribbean four and five and how making Jack Sparrow the main character who had to undergo character development ruined some of his appeal. A lot of the story hinged on him being the way he was, so making him change was interesting, but not necessarily as entertaining. Barbossa's growth as a character was amazing through the entire series, but Jack worked better acting as context for the changing world.

Other examples of entertainment with static characters are the ones that are formulaic. Wile E Coyote and Road Runner episodes are mostly 'the same' but few people complain. Dragonball Z is similar in that there is a definite pattern that repeats itself on an increasingly escalating scale. It's important not to hold expectations and just enjoy the spectacle.

Don't listen to Saint. Seriously. Anyone expecting a flawless, improved copy of the original source is missing the point of fanfiction. It's about saying 'this is cool, but do you know what else would be cool?' and writing something different. It's about making a Harry Potter story that is basically a Harry Potter fan writing a sixty thousand word complaint about how evil Dumbledore is. It's about rewriting a story with all the character's genders mixed up. It's about having fun and sharing that with others. It's literary potato chips. You don't eat them for nutrition, and you certainly don't want to eat nothing but potato chips. But it is nice to sit back with a bag of them and make a pig of yourself.

I'm really enjoying this so far and I like where you're going with this. The idea of fleshing out the martial art elements of Dragonball is very intriguing. Yamcha and Krillin's fight was really cool and made me excited for more. It will be nice to see the good guys become more than speed bumps to buy time for Goku to get there.
 
Even the more soft spoken elements can be damn interesting. Its nice seeing Muten Roshi played as a genuinely responsible authority figure dealing with the overcaffeinated collateral damage fistmonster that is Goku. Toriyama sketched a very loose, often inconsistent outline but seeing those lines filled in this way is as fulfilling as anything.

Changes are nice. Just flipping over rocks to see what is crawing there, outside of normal audience perception, is nice too.
 
Philosophysics said:
There's a surprising number of powerful secondary characters. And yes, I am going One Piece route where each character faces their own climactic battle.

I won't even have to make up too many of them because there's a LOT of side villains. THAT TORIYAMA JUST GIVES TO HIS MARY SUE! Gods damn it.

And sometimes I won't have the Saiyans fight them. Because Gods know, their battle mania makes them fuck up the simplest job.

Everybody yells at Krillin for sparing Android 18. Nobody talks about how FUCKING VEGETA LET'S SEMI-PERFECT CELL POWER UP!

AND NOBODY TALKS ABOUT HOW GOKU HEALSPERFECT CELL BACK UP TO FULL STRENGTH FOR GOHAN TO GET PTSDON!

Also I might also just have some team fights because those are cool.




...What the fuck?

...Is that... Is that really Frieza's wish!?

They seriously reused the Red Ribbon Army gag. WHY!?
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1.) Yeah, the thing is that your characters don't all need to be on the same power level with each other, they just need to be in the same tier (or whatever you want to call it) as their opponent. And having Ginyu-Force-level foes running amok while Goku and Frieze fight is bad news bears.
2.) Well, Saiyan battle stupidness aside, this is where we point out that they can have foes of their own.
3.) Frieze did make a good point of not wanting to wish for immortality; his time in Hell made him basically say "there are fates worse than death or nonexistence". And hey, wanting more height, sure. As for "only a few inches more", that's where DBZ/Super's roots in the comedy-action of OG DB come into play.
 
IllegibleScream said:
Personally, I can't wait for Krillin to wish for a 👃.
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Having no nose is a minor advantage in mortal kombat you know?

edit: for all you know that would be disrespecting the generations of krillin-grandpa and grandma that selected sexual partners to have no nose eventually because of punching advantage until they achieved their ultimate kwisatz haderach, krillin, the man with no nasal bleed.
 
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Just out of curiosity, will you be completely ignoring GT or will you cherry pick concept s from it? Since the dark dragon idea of overusing the dragon balls was an interesting concept (even if bodged by the series)

Also will ss4 from GT be included or ignored?
 
Is there going to be a point where you tell The Great Shenron that if he doesn't fill out your wish list now you'll just call him back every 6 months anyway till it's completed. And if he makes you slog all around the world so many times then your first wish will be to have him always wear a clown nose, speak only in a effeminate voice and dirty old boots are decorate his horns from now on everytime he appears? No matter who calls him?
 
Doccer said:
Is there going to be a point where you tell The Great Shenron that if he doesn't fill out your wish list now you'll just call him back every 6 months anyway till it's completed. And if he makes you slog all around the world so many times then your first wish will be to have him always wear a clown nose, speak only in a effeminate voice and dirty old boots are decorate his horns from now on everytime he appears? No matter who calls him?
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I don't think there is actually any restriction on him eating you...
 
Doccer said:
Is there going to be a point where you tell The Great Shenron that if he doesn't fill out your wish list now you'll just call him back every 6 months anyway till it's completed. And if he makes you slog all around the world so many times then your first wish will be to have him always wear a clown nose, speak only in a effeminate voice and dirty old boots are decorate his horns from now on everytime he appears? No matter who calls him?
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wouldn't work because Shenron can only affect those weaker than him, and he can't be weaker than himself.
 
One of the best wishes would be to be able to sense and find ANY Dragonball even while they are dormant so he could gather them while no one else can.
 
Philosophysics said:
"Thank you for the fight. I learnt much from you," Krillin bowed to him, walking to the edge to the stage to do so. When he stood up, his entire demeanor changed, taking on that relaxed, easy manner that was so much like Gohan. Crossing his arms behind his head, Krillin stretched, yawning, "Whelp, I'm going to get something to snack on. See you later"
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Should be "that was so much like Goku".

Is this... is this maybe a DBZ Abridged, but before the Abridged series started, insert?
 
Doccer said:
Is there going to be a point where you tell The Great Shenron that if he doesn't fill out your wish list now you'll just call him back every 6 months anyway till it's completed. And if he makes you slog all around the world so many times then your first wish will be to have him always wear a clown nose, speak only in a effeminate voice and dirty old boots are decorate his horns from now on everytime he appears? No matter who calls him?
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This assumes that Shenron is actually capable of just fulfilling a huge number of wishes all at once. I've always interpreted the wish limitations to be due to literal capability; Shenron can only fill 1 (later 2, I think) wishes, and then needs to recharge. Porunga can do 3, and recharges more rapidly, but even then it's a hard limit, not an "I'm cranky" limit.
 
KnightDisciple said:
This assumes that Shenron is actually capable of just fulfilling a huge number of wishes all at once. I've always interpreted the wish limitations to be due to literal capability; Shenron can only fill 1 (later 2, I think) wishes, and then needs to recharge. Porunga can do 3, and recharges more rapidly, but even then it's a hard limit, not an "I'm cranky" limit.
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You might be able to cheat that with Tree of Might fruit, or some equivalent, considering that those things are apparently intended as dragon (or Kai) kibble. Clearly neither class of entity needs said fruit, but I could imagine the things being designed in past aeons as an emergency 'we need a miracle yesterday, people' last resort.

All it takes is the small, small sacrifice of one planet that Beerus probably was going to blow up anyway. Hell, the fruit is probably one of the few thing away from the Dragonball Earth that Beerus finds tasty enough to be bribed with. Absolutely worth it for a Kai of whatever level to keep in their back pocket.

This is probably irrelevant though. Just (baseless and theoretical) background fluff at best.
 
Ok since Krillin doesn't have a lot of ki in supply he should try and recreate the solar flare or Gon's moveset. I mean it wouldn't require a lot of Ki right? One is am exploding ball the other is a ki blade and the last one is an exploding field.
 
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