With that kind of over specialisation on offense, I'd imagine the Machine Army would be quite vulnerable if something manages to tie up the majority of their military… while we execute the Master Flank treatment on somewhere vital.
Magical healing 2 + hospitals are both necessary militarily and economically. Frees more manmpower for the mago-industrial revolution and is necessary for large scale warfare.
The MA seems to have rushed military tech and neglected logistics and foundational economic stuff and that is coming back to haunt them now.
I feel like having the necessary underlying development makes losing rolls less horrible and you seem to get more dice if you are developed.
Definitely agreed. Luckily this doesn't actually conflict with using Material Science for heavy military build-up in one way or another, since Hospitals are Social and Magical Healing is Esoteric. We've got a good balance of the three areas, especially with getting material help from Sanctuary, which should help us avoid the issues the MA seems to have stumbled into.
If we only have a couple small unlocks added to the list then Hospitals is a clear win but I suspect we've finished a lot of social science prereqs this turn and will have as much competition for our Socsci points as we already do for our Exosci points. Not a Matsci-style bottleneck so much as So Many Options.
If we only have a couple small unlocks added to the list then Hospitals is a clear win but I suspect we've finished a lot of social science prereqs this turn and will have as much competition for our Socsci points as we already do for our Exosci points. Not a Matsci-style bottleneck so much as So Many Options.
With that kind of over specialisation on offense, I'd imagine the Machine Army would be quite vulnerable if something manages to tie up the majority of their military… while we execute the Master Flank treatment on somewhere vital.
Yeah, also stuff like their infantry being insufficently trained and equipped once they encountered circumstances where they couldn't rely on their War Machines.
This is honestly one of the reasons I want us to not pick War Machines until our industry and military are sufficiently developed.
Disjointed development seems to really fuck with societies on Paradisea. We need to keep in mind that our strength is exo-science. Some military mat-sci is necessary but keeping the League on a healthy development path seems most important to me.
Magical healing is more of a turn 7 or 8 goal for me, in the short term I still want to study the river-spirits and shore up our spirit/necrotech strengths with animal spirits and spiritualism. Spiritualism in particular - the jump from just preserving the spirits of our dead to reliable communication with them is going to be big, and was part of the promise of digging this deep into necrotechs to start with.
I think that the effectiveness of the War Machines would be limited against the MA, without hydrogen first their actual use is limited and the MA has more of the infrastructure and equipment needed to use them fully.
Magical healing is more of a turn 7 or 8 goal for me, in the short term I still want to study the river-spirits and shore up our spirit/necrotech strengths with animal spirits and spiritualism. Spiritualism in particular - the jump from just preserving the spirits of our dead to reliable communication with them is going to be big, and was part of the promise of digging this deep into necrotechs to start with.
I think that the effectiveness of the War Machines would be limited against the MA, without hydrogen first their actual use is limited and the MA has more of the infrastructure and equipment needed to use them fully.
I like the River Spirits and think that they are more likely to be of use if the MA get in our territory than spiritualism and animal spirits.
The senior River-Spirits are bigger, for sure, and I think the tech will help us understand Lightning-Speaker as well. But we have many, many animals and connections to them in our agricultural sector, and our connections to nature spirits have been important for guerrilla warfare in the past. I think animal spirits would be useful there, and spiritualism lets us convert our ancestor spirits from 'indirect aid' to 'direct aid'. Which is notably an exotic science the League of Strength clearly has leaned into for war!
As for War Machines - there's a really determined effort to talk down their benefits again, and I still think it's misguided. Their writeup literally says the benefits speak for themselves, plus they're noted as having two methods of being powered at scale. Hydrogen fuel is one, and a useful one in the middle-term, but we researched built the other (solar) last turn. We have the exo-sci and spirit expertise to be better machine-shamans than the Machine Army are, and we are much, much more able to integrate them into our high-socsci society than the MA's ancestors were generations ago (while integrating food trucks and other disruptive techs at the same time, which we aren't). And while in a war against the Machine Army they're more 'keeping up' than 'taking the edge,' they are a useful edge against, say, the giant pile of war and death on our northern border, or if the Islanders grow more militarist.
All that plus the knock-on effects for our economy of having self-replicating motor vehicles.
The senior River-Spirits are bigger, for sure, and I think the tech will help us understand Lightning-Speaker as well. But we have many, many animals and connections to them in our agricultural sector, and our connections to nature spirits have been important for guerrilla warfare in the past. I think animal spirits would be useful there, and spiritualism lets us convert our ancestor spirits from 'indirect aid' to 'direct aid'. Which is notably an exotic science the League of Strength clearly has leaned into for war!
As for War Machines - there's a really determined effort to talk down their benefits again, and I still think it's misguided. Their writeup literally says the benefits speak for themselves, plus they're noted as having two methods of being powered at scale. Hydrogen fuel is one, and a useful one in the middle-term, but we researched built the other (solar) last turn. We have the exo-sci and spirit expertise to be better machine-shamans than the Machine Army are, and we are much, much more able to integrate them into our high-socsci society than the MA's ancestors were generations ago (while integrating food trucks and other disruptive techs at the same time, which we aren't). And while in a war against the Machine Army they're more 'keeping up' than 'taking the edge,' they are a useful edge against, say, the giant pile of war and death on our northern border, or if the Islanders grow more militarist.
All that plus the knock-on effects for our economy of having self-replicating motor vehicles.
War machines will be incredibly useful when we go to war, but until we actually do I think that they're outweighed by the benefits that come from fully mechanizing our transportation networks at a stroke. Being able to use all that muscle power that was wasted carrying shit from point a to point b on other things is going to massively increase the amount of people we can throw at a problem.
As for War Machines - there's a really determined effort to talk down their benefits again, and I still think it's misguided. Their writeup literally says the benefits speak for themselves, plus they're noted as having two methods of being powered at scale. Hydrogen fuel is one, and a useful one in the middle-term, but we researched built the other (solar) last turn. We have the exo-sci and spirit expertise to be better machine-shamans than the Machine Army are, and we are much, much more able to integrate them into our high-socsci society than the MA's ancestors were generations ago (while integrating food trucks and other disruptive techs at the same time, which we aren't). And while in a war against the Machine Army they're more 'keeping up' than 'taking the edge,' they are a useful edge against, say, the giant pile of war and death on our northern border, or if the Islanders grow more militarist.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly would like War Machines in Turn 7.
About fuel, the update where we got the machines mentioned that the bigger ones need hydrogen and ScottishMongol did say that hydrogen is not necessary (becausd Sanctuary is alreay producing some) but would be a bottleneck for the War Machines.
War Machines are a solid call this turn, IMO. With the help of Sanctuary we can do those and other options as well. I think a bottleneck on numbers is worth dealing with for a turn to, y'know, have any at all, and we can grab Hydrogen Fuel the turn after to allow greater numbers. That's better for dealing with immediate hostilities than going in the opposite order.
What we should do is find a collaborator among the Machine Army, for example lets call him Arminius, and then have him guide our troops, led by a General named Varus hypothetically speaking, through the forests, designated as 'Teutoburg Forest' for this operation, and hit the Machine Army in the flank. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.
What we should do is find a collaborator among the Machine Army, for example lets call him Arminius, and then have him guide our troops, led by a General named Varus hypothetically speaking, through the forests, designated as 'Teutoburg Forest' for this operation, and hit the Machine Army in the flank. Nothing can go wrong with this plan.
[] Study Sanctuary's Vehicles (0/1)
Sanctuary has their own suite of vehicles, ranging from motorboats to trucks to vehicles that use the principles of powered flight. While not as advanced as the vehicles of the Machine Army, they could serve as a stepstone to understand these more complex and powerful devices once properly analyzed by your own craftsmen.
I get what you're going for, but the thread just narrowly split between "mostly go fuck yourself" and "entirely go fuck yourself" on the League of Strength and so I don't think people would vote to support the feudalist bio-chemical warfare guys who run a society based on serfdom over competing options like allying with the League of Five Shields.
So the turn is ready and will be posted tomorrow but I wanted to give everyone a head's up - I'll be moving across the country at the end of August so while I do plan on finishing Turn 6 it will also be the last turn for some time as I have to pack, move, and settle in. I will eventually be continuing this Quest, of course, there will just be a hiatus.
Merchants – the men and women who make deals and move goods in the trade that is the League's lifeblood
Warrior Societies – the trained and disciplined men who spend their lives seeking honor and wealth in war against enemies of the League
Holy Men – the religious leaders of the League who mediate between them and the spirits
Intellectuals – the Historians, magicians, alchemists, and academics who provide mental labor for the League, who experiment and develop new magic and technology, and who are bound together by their education.
Mechanicals – skilled professional craftsmen who produce the everyday things and trade goods the League needs
Workers – the laboring classes of the League, comprised of great masses of urban workers as well as miners and foresters, bound together by folkways which revolve around their labor practices
Great changes are occurring in the League. The mass infrastructure projects require large amounts of labor to be concentrated in a few places. Previously, labor could be done by small craftsmen in workshops, with production happening within the home. Now, though, huge factories and infrastructure projects require the organization of masses of workers, individuals who provide nothing but their labor. The cities are swelling even more and these workers, while sustained by the League's social and economic safety nets, still crave spiritual fulfillment in their work.
Craftsmen-Mechanicals in the League and Sanctuary alike note that with the drive for increased production and efficiency, and the technology to fulfill that drive, is creating factors that could lead to the market being flooded by cheap goods that threaten the livelihoods of the skilled craftsmen. This is exactly the state of affairs that drove Sanctuary's founders into rebellion on Endymion, and nativist demagogues in Sanctuary are making gains among the city's craftsmen regarding fears of the League's economic dominance.
Diplomacy Actions You may take one Diplomatic action per turn.
[] Recruit for the League.
There are always neutral tribes who could be added to the League, especially those who now desire strength in unity after the invasion by the Machine Army offshoot and the expansion of the League of Strength.
[] Expand the League by force.
The League is never truly at peace. Pinpoint raids are still launched by – and against – neighboring tribes, and with your growing wealth you are tempting targets. The Warrior Societies want a chance to prove your strength and settle these raiders for good.
[] Establish relations with the League of Five Shields.
This new League that has arisen to your south is primarily a defensive pact, their main concern being the belligerent and powerful Tech Barons. Perhaps these people would welcome the support of a strong power such as yourself.
[] Establish relations with the Islander Folk.
As it turns out, the Islander Folk come to Sanctuary so frequently to trade they have established permanent embassies, allowing you to potentially walk right in and request an audience with their diplomats. Convenient!
[] Invade the League of Strength.
Now is the time! Our enemies are distracted, the League of Strength is failing! Shout the battle cry of freedom and unleash the Grand Army of the League on the slavers!
Material Science You have 3 Research Points to spend.
[] Fortifications (0/1)
Your cities have grown large, but they lack any large-scale fortifications, leaving them vulnerable to attack. Walls and citadels at strategic points could deter raids and make key locations harder to capture.
[] Hydrogen Fuel (0/5)
Hydrogen fuel is one of the two economical and efficient ways of powering your new engines, but the process is complex and requires several steps to implement, not least of which is the actual conversion of water into pure hydrogen – although perhaps this conversion could be assisted with alchemical processes.
Research Cost can be reduced to (0/1) with Sanctuary Actions.
[] Study Sanctuary's Vehicles (0/1)
Sanctuary has their own suite of vehicles, ranging from motorboats to trucks to vehicles that use the principles of powered flight. While not as advanced as the vehicles of the Machine Army, they could serve as a stepstone to understand these more complex and powerful devices once properly analyzed by your own craftsmen.
[] War Machines (0/3)
You have captured many war machines, but they need great effort to maintain and reproduce. Infrastructure and expertise will need time and resources to make full use of them, but the benefits speak for themselves.
Research Cost can be reduced to (0/1) with Sanctuary Actions.
[] Food Trucks (0/2)
Among the capture devices are great vats of cultured meat and tanks of algae, which the Machine Armies used to feed their troops on the go. Your culture already has rich foodways, but perhaps you can exploit these food sources as well, once they are properly understood and the infrastructure is expanded for widespread use.
[] Physics (0/2)
Mathematics is one thing. However, the laws that govern the movement of bodies is another entirely. Fundamental concepts about how objects move through time and space have infinite potential when built upon, but first the brightest minds among your Historians must contemplate and, most of all, experiment with motion, velocity, momentum, gravity, and force. Not to mention, how all of these principles interact with magic.
[] Study Sanctuary's Labor-Saving Devices (0/1)
Sanctuary has a variety of wonderful machines that would revolutionize the home lives of the True People. Devices that heat food, or keep it cool! Devices that keep buildings warm in the winter, or cold in the summer! Devices that wash things for you! Devices that keep time! All of these things run on electricity, of course, but the diagrams can be easily studied and copied, if you just encourage Mechanicals to take apprenticeships in Sanctuary, an easy feat due to your new, closer relationship.
[] Deep-Water Vessels (0/2)
Sanctuary lacks a strong blue-water navy, and you have never had a coastline. Now, with the Islander Folk coming to your very doorstep and new continents waiting to be explored beyond the horizon, it may be time to establish a naval tradition.
[] Trains (0/2)
With electrification, your expert Mechanicals have developed an alternative to the fuel-powered vehicles of Sanctuary or the Machine Army. An engine that runs on rails, capable of moving great quantities of men and material. These lines could be run through both the countryside and, on a smaller scale, through cities, creating urban rail lines to move people.
[] Printing Press (0/1)
You have developed your own writing system, but the time-consuming effort of writing means its use is still limited. With electricity, you can print written works many times over for almost no cost, making the written word freely available to everyone.
[] Industrial Chemical Production (0/1)
The greatest production bottleneck you face at the moment, for both mundane and alchemical processes, is the production of chemicals. Many of these are rare and must be synthesized from a combination of natural sources, alchemical reagents, and other chemicals. However, by scaling up you will be able to produce certain substances on the massive scales required for industrial processes.
Social Science You have 5 Research Points to spend
[] Currency (0/1)
At the moment, barter is the only method of trade there is. However, your merchants would have a much easier time if there were, say, a system of tokens that could easily be exchanged for goods and services. Maybe we could use some of the more useless metals, or some similarly difficult to find material.
[] Labor Corps (0/2)
You have a professional standing army of soldiers, why not a professional standing army of labor? You can organize the usual labor gangs recruited to work on public works and infrastructure projects and reform them into a vast organization maintained and supplied by the Councils, one which can be deployed anywhere and which will provide employment for thousands.
[] Labor Councils (0/3)
With workers congregating in factories and mass infrastructure projects, old ways of doing things are no longer sufficient. The old methods of production by which Mechanicals could engage in small crafts in their own workshops and homes has been replaced by massive forge and factory complexes, and the workers there need their own methods of organization. Let every factory be maintained by a council of workers, so that they can manage their own affairs, hours, and benefits.
[] Hospitals (0/3)
When someone is sick or injured, they will usually have a holy man make a house call to perform a healing ritual. Other times they may simply seek help at a Religious Lodge. However, there are ways you could centralize and improve this system. By building centralized locations where the sick can go to be treated and receive specialized medicines, you could treat many people more efficiently.
[] Espionage (0/1)
You already know the benefits of a network of informants, but a network of informants who are clandestine, trained in the habits of spying, subterfuge, and secretly passing on knowledge requires training a specialized corps, and then devoting the resources to getting these spies to places where they can reliably report back to the League on the habits of your enemies. Still, the benefits of this should be obvious.
[] Industrial Production (0/1)
The methods used by the League of Strength, while distasteful in their implementation, are nevertheless intriguing. In times like this, when production is growing more bountiful and efficient with every new technology, there are certain ways to organize industrial labor. Standardization. Interchangeable parts. Assembly line production. A hundredfold increase in efficiency and output, and all it requires is training and coordination.
[] Craft Guilds (0/1)
The craftsmen-Mechanicals fear the mass production techniques being pioneered. If cheap, mass-produced goods flood the market, they will be driven out of business and forced to join the masses of urban laborers. If they are allowed to form guilds, similar to those the merchants have to represent their interests, the craftsmen-Mechanicals will be able to preserve their positions, ensuring their monopoly on high-quality finished goods and maintaining the quality of those goods against inferior mass-produced ones.
Exotic Science You have 6 Research Points to spend
[] Magical Healing - Tier 2 (0/3)
Your holy men can cure most diseases, treat injuries, and sterilize wounds. Child mortality rates are remarkably low and life expectancy is decent. Of course, there is always room for improvement and specialization, and your foremost experts on this could compile their current knowledge and expand on it, creating a systematized method of diagnosing and healing maladies.
[] Study the River Spirits (0/3)
The river spirits are curious beings. They take the shape of people and can clearly communicate with you, but your holy men wish to observe them closer, to understand the nature of their existence, their behavior, and their purpose. Then there is River-Woman and her husband, who are clearly beings of remarkable power that the League would do well to maintain a good relationship with.
[] Study the River-Dolphins (0/3)
The presence of a true non-human intelligence is a new thing for you. What is the nature of these beings, and can they really communicate with us? What do they have to offer?
[] Animal Spirits (0/1)
Similar to veneration of the spirits of your ancestors, your holy men can also begin binding and empowering animal spirits, both as spiritual guides and protectors and as representatives of the wilder kinds of nature spirits.
[] Spiritualism (0/1)
In addition to receiving assistance from the spirits of the dead, your holy men are also keen on communing with them. This would allow you to draw information directly from those who have passed, or ask them directly for intercession on your behalf.
[] Afterlife (0/3)
While working on venerating and communing with the spirits of the dead is a viable path, your holy men also believe they could construct a resting place to house these spirits, one that could act as another plane of existence entirely. This would require great amounts of magical energy and vast rituals to accomplish, but it would ease the passage of souls into the afterlife.
[] Factory-Temples (0/1)
The greater demands as you build a League-spanning infrastructure system have required the creation of great factories, where workers assemble to produce everything from mechanical components to electrical wiring to solar panels. However, these places, like anywhere else where humans spend time, accumulate background magical energy which can be converted into spiritual potential. Create shrines in these factories so that workers can sanctify their labor.
[] Study Homunculi (0/5)
The artificial humans produced by your alchemists are fascinating. The process creates a physically diminutive and stunted version of a human, but one possessed of a spirit and intellect on par with that of a baseline human, if not greater. If these beings and the process of their creation are sufficiently studied, analyzed, and refined, then perhaps it may revolutionize the very basis of society.
[] Salnitre Emitter (0/3)
From the notes of the eccentric alchemist known as Ishak is the design for a device known as the salnitre emitter. This device uses an alchemical forge to produce what the inventor claims is an anti-gravity field, and from initial tests his claims seem to be accurate.
[] Suspended Mercury Engine (0/3)
Another intriguing device from the notes of Ishak the Inventor is the Suspended Mercury Engine. Another alchemical power generator, this one utilizes the inherent magical potential of mercury to produce energy. Suspended within a gyroscope, the mercury is converted into a propulsion thrust.
Sanctuary Actions
Integration: 55%. With your infrastructure intertwined and Sanctuary beginning to adopt aspects of your political system, your two societies are now joined at the hip. A slim majority of the Assembly now supports the syncretic path, but the neutral camp has begun to shrink at the expense of the two extremes as demagogues exploit the fears of craftsmen regarding automation.
The old Sheik has died, leaving it to his appointed Regency Council to govern the city, together with input from the Assembly. Their first task is to seek out his newest incarnation and await his majority so that they can restore him to his place.
The first batch of students are returning to Sanctuary from the, League's universities, some of them returning as magicians, alchemists, and Historians and implementing your magical technologies into Sanctuary's society. In addition, artistic and cultural exchange are flourishing as Sanctuary influences your new architectural styles. There have also been intermarriages between your merchant families and Mechanicals and their merchants and craftsmen, men from Sanctuary coming to live in the League in accordance with your matrilocal customs.
Change has also occurred in the various tribes along the length of the Long River. As more exchange and trade occurs and shared infrastructure projects are put along the river's length, the whole region is beginning to adopt your blended culture.
The Regency Council appointed by the old Sheik has decided to continue his policy of integration, and they have proposed several joint projects you could work on together:
Technology Pick one.
[] Expand Hydrogen Fuel Production
Sanctuary already has a full chain of production for hydrogen fuel, allowing them to supply their fleet of trucks and ships domestically. With your resources, they could drastically expand their production to meet your shared demand, allowing you access to a common fuel source.
[] Jointly Study War Machines
You have captured many War Machines in your recent conflict against a splinter of the Machine Armies, but struggle to understand them. Sanctuary is slightly better off in this regard, as they have a better starting point to study these devices. By combining your knowledge and learning, you may be able to collectively make advances that would be impossible alone.
[] Space Travel
Sanctuary claims to have lost knowledge of much since their arrival on Paradisea, including how to construct a spacefaring vessel capable of faster-than-light travel. Be that as it may, there are almost certainly various documents, physical samples, and even stories which can be put together into a picture of how FTL travel is supposed to work, even if you lack any exact instructions.
Politics Pick one.
[] Elected Regency Council
On the other hand, one could approach this from the angle of the Sheik's regents. These mullahs, selected by the Sheik on a mix of reputation and connections, serve as his advisors when in his majority and his regents when his new reincarnation is still young. You could introduce a system by which the regency council is elected, allowing a democratic body to govern the city while the Sheik is incapable of doing so.
[] Speaker for Sanctuary
There is also the matter of integrating Sanctuary into the League as a whole. Every tribe in the League is represented by a Speaker to the High Council. Sanctuary could hold elections for a Speaker of their own, allowing them to gain representation at the highest level of the League. Though, this would give them a voice in the League's governance, something which may be delicate at this early stage of integration.
Religion Pick one.
[] Study Reincarnation
The doctrine of transmigration of the soul is central to Sanctuary's religion, and central to their government, as reincarnation of the Sheik is what allows them to have continuity of government at all. Study this, and you will understand the bedrock of their faith, and of their government system, understand the Sheik himself, and last but not least, understand their powers of reincarnation, astral projection, and spiritual empowerment.
[] Study Arabic
Arabic is a liturgical language that the Sufis say is foundational to their religion. It is a written language, and is primarily used to record their religious beliefs and customs. However, the Sufis also claim that when utilized properly it bestows mystical powers, as evidenced by its use in their architecture and in their magical traditions.
[] Teach Spirit Veneration
Sanctuary has already adopted veneration of some local spirits, a necessary part of surviving on an unfamiliar world. However, the League has developed a complex array of spirits and their particular methods of veneration, ranging from forest spirits up to River-Woman and her husband. You could teach Sanctuary the proper rites and help them fit these spirits into their religious framework, binding your ways together.
[] Teach Leyline Network
Your Leyline Network has become as integral to your magical infrastructure as electricity is to their technological infrastructure; indeed, the two are inseparable. You could extend your leyline network into Sanctuary's territory through the construction of monuments, maybe even integrate their mosques into it, to allow them to reap the benefits as well.
-[X] Diplomacy Actions
--[X] Invade the League of Strength.
-[X] Material Science
--[X] War Machines (0/3)
--[X] Study Sanctuary's Vehicles (0/1)
--[X] Fortifications (0/1)
-[X] Social Science
--[X] Labor Corps (0/2)
--[X] Hospitals (0/3)
-[X] Exotic Science
--[X] Magical Healing - Tier 2 (0/3)
--[X] Study the River Spirits (0/3)
-[X] Technology (Sanctuary)
--[X] Jointly Study War Machines
-[X] Politics (Sanctuary)
--[X] Elected Regency Council
-[X] Religion (Sanctuary)
--[X] Teach Spirit Veneration
Revised plan to be more martially proactive but still keep a focus on healthcare. I think that it's unlikely that the MA will attack us this turn so freeing up more labor, acquiring Sanctuary vehicles (including flying machines, air superiority is important against the MA), getting hydrogen to power them and lowering down our death rate and improving our ability to heal wounded soldiers sound good for our military-industrial growth (that and we probably should invest into medicine at some point).
River-Spirits would probably help us later if we are invaded and that's also a big chunk of research that we will have to do someday.
For the diplomatic choice, the LoS is probably going to fall soon so stabilizing them by empowering the rebels or integrating them would be good to not break the line of defense against the MA.
