How about we send Celes to Prism too? That way, we have a sister in each school :p
[x] Reluctantly agree to let Skye flip the board and attend Paragon. She's not wrong about Dragon being a cutthroat environment; you'll enjoy the competition, but Skye certainly wont.
-[x] Encourage her to use both exploits now. Unless she's nerfed (which, admittedly, she probably will be), that should let Progeny make off with everything in the workshop and the workshop itself.
[x] Don't send Celes to Prism.

That is all.
 
EDIT: Overall, it's probably a good idea to use them both right now if you want to get the most out of it. You will scare the living daylights out of CBCC, though.
Sounds reasonable, and if Skye is sure...


[x] Double-check that Skye knows what she's doing - she's going to catch a lot of very focused attention from the CBCC - but...
-[x] She's made it clear that she'd feel safer at PRISM or Paragon, even if the actual power is a bit lacking, and you're not going to stop her. Especially since it's starting to sound like she'd have real problems with the environment at Dragon.
-[x] You just want to make sure she has collected that evidence instead of jumping at what it looks like on the surface. She's supporting her decisions with Precedent, right, checked the rates for mental illnesses and twenty-year survival rates and such?

[x] It sounds like using both exploits at once will be the highest-value play, so do that.
[x] Bring Upgrade and Authority (and Skye's powers, if they want to contribute) into the conversation to help figure out how to maximize use of your exploits.
[x] Is there a way to keep the Beyond from noticing the exploits until you've gotten everything done today?
 
[X] Plan Support Our Sister.
-[X] We will support Skye whatever she chooses. Reiterate that. It's important.
-[X] If Skye wants to go to Paragon, then we'll make that happen.
--[X] That said? Has Skye looked into things, with Precedent? That might be something to do before we make any immediate decisions, is to take a minute or two and check.
---[X] Suggest useful statistical measures. Data is good and useful.
---[X] Also, have there ever been Dragon-graduate Heroes? Bring them up. For that matter, wasn't Celestial pretty effective at heroing for a villain? (the cape who masqueraded as a hero and then took other heroes hostage and got away with it.)

-[X] If Skye decides to go to Paragon:
--[X] If we're flipping the board...Celes could go to Prism. To spread our friendship net wide, and all.
--[X] And if we're flipping the board, let's do it in style: Full speed ahead on the exploits, and damn the torpedoes. Not literally.
-[X] Otherwise, these exploits might be a trump card that we only get to play once, so it's probably a good idea to hold on to it.

[X] [Experiment] What is a Builder-made item if not a use of a cape's powers? Try to use Analysis on the materials in the room, starting with Cherub's crystals.

Amazingly, not copying @Vebyast for once!

Because Skye deserves the chance to make her own, informed choices.
 
[x] Double-check that Skye knows what she's doing - she's going to catch a lot of very focused attention from the CBCC - but...
-[x] She's made it clear that she'd feel safer at PRISM or Paragon, even if the actual power is a bit lacking, and you're not going to stop her. Especially since it's starting to sound like she'd have real problems with the environment at Dragon.
-[x] You just want to make sure she has collected that evidence instead of jumping at what it looks like on the surface. She's supporting her decisions with Precedent, right, checked the rates for mental illnesses and twenty-year survival rates and such?

[X] Burn exactly one exploit of Skye's choice today.

[x] It sounds like using both exploits at once will be the highest-value play, so do that.
I'm not sure why we aren't going for the long term. I don't think we should burn both of our exploits right now, based on this statement:
Using one would give you a larger likely output total, but you'd have to be patient before using the second exploit. It'll be a few months.
 
I'm not sure why we aren't going for the long term. I don't think we should burn both of our exploits right now, based on this statement:

The nature of exponential growth means that even a smaller payoff now that enables other opportunities may lead to more stuff in the long run than a large payoff over time. Given stuff like the Builder contest, the Embassy run, and that the favoured items right now are tools for making better stuff for cheaper, it's entirely possible that we are in fact working with exponential growth here.
Ultimately I don't know for sure either way myself, but I can see arguments for either course of action.
 
I'm not sure why we aren't going for the long term. I don't think we should burn both of our exploits right now, based on this statement:
I went back and noticed this edit:
EDIT: Overall, it's probably a good idea to use them both right now if you want to get the most out of it. You will scare the living daylights out of CBCC, though.

That and I'm not particularly enthused by the idea of having to be paranoid about using our abilities where the Beyond can see them.
 
EDIT: Tomorrow is Mother's Day, so I'll be spending the day on that instead of updating. I did get some writing for Ignition done today, though it isn't yet a full update.



Just to be perfectly clear, sending Celes to Prism is not an option, nor is going there yourself. You and Celes are both sticking with Dragon; with the way you plan on sandbagging with different identities, it simply isn't safe for only one person to be attending Dragon unless you want to keep your head down, which would be bor-ring!


Anyway, I apologize if it feels as though this is a rehash of a previous vote, but that's what happens when you adopt someone on a whim give someone something to let her make more informed decisions; this time, she's using it instead of automatically deferring to you. >___>
 
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[X] Plan Support Our Sister.

Seems good enough to me.
 
[X] Plan Support Our Sister.
Quick warning, Kinematics' external vote-tally program and the built-in vote-tally tool have very different handling of votes with the `Plan` keyword. Specifically, I believe that the built-in tallier doesn't do anything special with them at all, while the external vote-tally program only counts the very first post with the plan in it, which serves as a persistent definition of that plan. I don't know if you're expecting that special handling to be happening; you probably want to check the vote tally to make sure it's doing what you want.

[X] [Experiment] What is a Builder-made item if not a use of a cape's powers? Try to use Analysis on the materials in the room, starting with Cherub's crystals.

I don't think that it's necessary to reiterate the support. I think that Skye is more rational and logical and will react better to an explanation of why we seem like we're not supporting her. I think that it would also be useful to explain why we're changing our minds.

[x] If Skye wants to go to Paragon, you'll make that happen. You just want to make sure that the decision gets made right.
-[x] You think that the challenges presented by Dragon are right for you, but Skye is right that they might be a bit stressful for her.
-[x] You assume that Skye has looked into things with Precedent, but given how big a deal this decision is, it might be worth spending another couple of minutes to double-check the data.
--[x] Suggest useful statistical measures. Cohort survival rates, mental illness rates, happiness metrics, measures of influence and power, friend count, etc.
--[x] Make sure you're looking at data for an appropriate demographic. Students that are in the "learning to be human" tracks at various schools, that kind of thing.
-[x] Skye is aware that she'll be under significantly increased monitoring and scrutiny if she catches a PS designation, right? You don't know how comfortable she'll be with that kind of thing.

On the exploits: We might be able to get more power out of concealing these upgrades and using them carefully over the course of the next few months, but I really don't think that that's a safe thing to do. Remember, no matter what we do, these exploits won't last forever. Someone will notice and nerf them eventually. The question is how to have obtained maximum utility when they're nerfed.

If we use them now, we have huge circumstantial bonuses. We already have a huge pile of high-quality materials. We get to use both of them at once, which multiplies their effectiveness instead of adding it. We have extra juice left from draining the upgrade-booster earlier. Finally, I don't get the impression that the Beyond will have much of a chance to nerf us before we're done (@Alivaril?). Even more, the materials we'd be able to take home if we go this route are probably worth several months of upgrade-juice all by themselves, so obtaining them is an extremely high-value proposition. All of these together mean that this option is safe, predictable, and significant.

If we save them, we'd gain relative advantage so much more slowly that it would take months to match the amount of advantage we'd be likely to gain with the immediate option. I do not think that we would be able to keep the exploits open for months. Any increase in notoriety would increase our viewership and shorten the expected time to the exploits being noticed and patched. Any Beyond that does the math on our demonstrated use of upgrade-juice will figure it out and patch the exploits. Both of these mean that the chance of discovery increases as we use the exploits. Then throw in the part where we are not going to be spending the next few months quietly tinkering with things; we have at least two major events already scheduled and crazy stuff like this will probably keep happening continuously. I think that it is extremely unlikely that we'll be able to get more by going slow. In fact, judging by how things have been going historically, I think that we'll probably lose it within a matter of weeks and it'll be entirely wasted.

In short: Don't get greedy and roll the dice on keeping the exploits open for months. Use them now to gain a large, safe payoff.

[x] Use both exploits now, and be careful to make sure you do it right.
-[x] You don't think that you'd be able to keep them under wraps long enough to win in the long run, especially because using them now has the added benefit of starting you off with a huge pile of high-quality resources that you can use to improve your capabilities for the builder competition and other upcoming opportunities.
-[x] Confer with your powers to get their advice on hiding the exploits to get as much out of them as possible before they're nerfed. Maybe Authority could help obscure what you're doing?
 
Alright, I'm convinced.
Quick warning, Kinematics' external vote-tally program and the built-in vote-tally tool have very different handling of votes with the `Plan` keyword. Specifically, I believe that the built-in tallier doesn't do anything special with them at all, while the external vote-tally program only counts the very first post with the plan in it, which serves as a persistent definition of that plan. I don't know if you're expecting that special handling to be happening; you probably want to check the vote tally to make sure it's doing what you want.

[X] [Experiment] What is a Builder-made item if not a use of a cape's powers? Try to use Analysis on the materials in the room, starting with Cherub's crystals.

I don't think that it's necessary to reiterate the support. I think that Skye is more rational and logical and will react better to an explanation of why we seem like we're not supporting her. I think that it would also be useful to explain why we're changing our minds.

[x] If Skye wants to go to Paragon, you'll make that happen. You just want to make sure that the decision gets made right.
-[x] You think that the challenges presented by Dragon are right for you, but Skye is right that they might be a bit stressful for her.
-[x] You assume that Skye has looked into things with Precedent, but given how big a deal this decision is, it might be worth spending another couple of minutes to double-check the data.
--[x] Suggest useful statistical measures. Cohort survival rates, mental illness rates, happiness metrics, measures of influence and power, friend count, etc.
--[x] Make sure you're looking at data for an appropriate demographic. Students that are in the "learning to be human" tracks at various schools, that kind of thing.
-[x] Skye is aware that she'll be under significantly increased monitoring and scrutiny if she catches a PS designation, right? You don't know how comfortable she'll be with that kind of thing.

On the exploits: We might be able to get more power out of concealing these upgrades and using them carefully over the course of the next few months, but I really don't think that that's a safe thing to do. Remember, no matter what we do, these exploits won't last forever. Someone will notice and nerf them eventually. The question is how to have obtained maximum utility when they're nerfed.

If we use them now, we have huge circumstantial bonuses. We already have a huge pile of high-quality materials. We get to use both of them at once, which multiplies their effectiveness instead of adding it. We have extra juice left from draining the upgrade-booster earlier. Finally, I don't get the impression that the Beyond will have much of a chance to nerf us before we're done (@Alivaril?). Even more, the materials we'd be able to take home if we go this route are probably worth several months of upgrade-juice all by themselves, so obtaining them is an extremely high-value proposition. All of these together mean that this option is safe, predictable, and significant.

If we save them, we'd gain relative advantage so much more slowly that it would take months to match the amount of advantage we'd be likely to gain with the immediate option. I do not think that we would be able to keep the exploits open for months. Any increase in notoriety would increase our viewership and shorten the expected time to the exploits being noticed and patched. Any Beyond that does the math on our demonstrated use of upgrade-juice will figure it out and patch the exploits. Both of these mean that the chance of discovery increases as we use the exploits. Then throw in the part where we are not going to be spending the next few months quietly tinkering with things; we have at least two major events already scheduled and crazy stuff like this will probably keep happening continuously. I think that it is extremely unlikely that we'll be able to get more by going slow. In fact, judging by how things have been going historically, I think that we'll probably lose it within a matter of weeks and it'll be entirely wasted.

In short: Don't get greedy and roll the dice on keeping the exploits open for months. Use them now to gain a large, safe payoff.

[x] Use both exploits now, and be careful to make sure you do it right.
-[x] You don't think that you'd be able to keep them under wraps long enough to win in the long run, especially because using them now has the added benefit of starting you off with a huge pile of high-quality resources that you can use to improve your capabilities for the builder competition and other upcoming opportunities.
-[x] Confer with your powers to get their advice on hiding the exploits to get as much out of them as possible before they're nerfed. Maybe Authority could help obscure what you're doing?

Alright, I'm convinced now. Switching over.

[X] [Experiment] What is a Builder-made item if not a use of a cape's powers? Try to use Analysis on the materials in the room, starting with Cherub's crystals.

[x] If Skye wants to go to Paragon, you'll make that happen. You just want to make sure that the decision gets made right.
-[x] You think that the challenges presented by Dragon are right for you, but Skye is right that they might be a bit stressful for her.
-[x] You assume that Skye has looked into things with Precedent, but given how big a deal this decision is, it might be worth spending another couple of minutes to double-check the data.
--[x] Suggest useful statistical measures. Cohort survival rates, mental illness rates, happiness metrics, measures of influence and power, friend count, etc.
--[x] Make sure you're looking at data for an appropriate demographic. Students that are in the "learning to be human" tracks at various schools, that kind of thing.
-[x] Skye is aware that she'll be under significantly increased monitoring and scrutiny if she catches a PS designation, right? You don't know how comfortable she'll be with that kind of thing.

[x] Use both exploits now, and be careful to make sure you do it right.
-[x] You don't think that you'd be able to keep them under wraps long enough to win in the long run, especially because using them now has the added benefit of starting you off with a huge pile of high-quality resources that you can use to improve your capabilities for the builder competition and other upcoming opportunities.
-[x] Confer with your powers to get their advice on hiding the exploits to get as much out of them as possible before they're nerfed. Maybe Authority could help obscure what you're doing?
 
Finally, I don't get the impression that the Beyond will have much of a chance to nerf us before we're done (@Alivaril?).

You probably have a significant audience right now, courtesy of any Capes monitoring you, so they would have a chance. However, they wouldn't nerf you before you got a good bit of mileage out of it, and if you pursue a couple of especially time-consuming projects, they might even be polite enough to wait until your workshop time is over.

All the points you made in that wall of text remain valid, though, and you'll still be getting a bunch of stuff out of it.

EDIT: Concealing what you're doing would also buy you a bunch of time, so good call there.
 
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[X] Reluctantly agree to let Skye flip the board and attend Paragon. She's not wrong about Dragon being a cutthroat environment; you'll enjoy the competition, but Skye certainly wont.
-[X] Encourage her to use both exploits now. Unless she's nerfed (which, admittedly, she probably will be), that should let Progeny make off with everything in the workshop and the workshop itself.
 
Wait, if this is all like television or a game to Beyond...
Does that mean we (the players) are Beyond? :thonk:
 
.... plus side

if Skye goes to Paragon and we go to Dragon... think of the plot tropes the MG side of the equation can leverage out of this!
 
Hmmm.

[X] Vebyast.

Could I convince you to add something like -[] Suggest Skye also Precedent-view Mad Magic? They seem to have the...good PR.
 
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Could I convince you to add something like -[] Suggest Skye also Precedent-view Mad Magic? They seem to have the...good PR.
Oops, looks like I had something that'd capture that in a WIP of that vote and lost it somewhere.


[X] [Experiment] What is a Builder-made item if not a use of a cape's powers? Try to use Analysis on the materials in the room, starting with Cherub's crystals.

[x] If Skye wants to go to Paragon, you'll make that happen. You just want to make sure that the decision gets made right.
-[x] You think that the challenges presented by Dragon are right for you, but Skye is right that they might be a bit stressful for her.
-[x] You assume that Skye has looked into things with Precedent, but given how big a deal this decision is, it might be worth spending another couple of minutes to double-check the data.
--[x] Suggest useful statistical measures. Cohort survival rates, mental illness rates, happiness metrics, measures of influence and power, friend count, etc.
--[x] Make sure you're looking at data for appropriate demographics. Students that are in the "learning to be human" tracks at various schools, heroes that went to Dragon, that kind of thing.
-[x] Skye is aware that she'll be under significantly increased monitoring and scrutiny if she catches a PS designation, right? You don't know how comfortable she'll be with that kind of thing.

[x] Use both exploits now, and be careful to make sure you do it right.
-[x] You don't think that you'd be able to keep them under wraps long enough to win in the long run, especially because using them now has the added benefit of starting you off with a huge pile of high-quality resources that you can use to improve your capabilities for the builder competition and other upcoming opportunities.
-[x] Confer with your powers to get their advice on hiding the exploits to get as much out of them as possible before they're nerfed. Maybe Authority could help obscure what you're doing?
 
Locking voting. A bunch of you forgot to say your reasoning for going with a given vote, but I'd rather write than pin down exactly who and @vebyast's route is a good plan anyway, so whatever. :p EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure @vebyast's plan would've won anyway.

::claimtag #terribleprecedent::
 
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Locking voting. A bunch of you forgot to say your reasoning for going with a given vote, but I'd rather write than pin down exactly who and @vebyast's route is a good plan anyway, so whatever. :p EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure @vebyast's plan would've won anyway.

::claimtag #terribleprecedent::
You didn't say we needed reasoning, I don't think?
 
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