LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Gonna point out, Medea doesn't use magecraft.
Fate/Revelation Online
- Thread starter daniel_gudman
- Start date
?.
Yes she does. It's ancient magecraft using words that AOM humans can't pronounce but it's still magecraft.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
No, it's not. She uses magic learned from the gods. Magecraft is something invented by Solomon so that mankind would be able to perform magic without having to rely on the gods.
So no, not magecraft.
No what Solomon did was make it so that common people could use magecraft instead of those who 'stood beside god'. It's in his FGO data.
Magecraft already existed, what Solomon did was expand who could use it. Magic Circuits are implied to be what he created since those apparently didn't exist in the AOG.
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LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
Magecraft and what Medea does are two completely different processes. They aren't the same thing!
I don't know what you want me to say. I quoted straight from the series, Medea is commonly referred to as a Magus from the AOG. I think you're confusing that her magecraft is from a different era where it's basically synonymous with True Magic so she's so not limited in what she can do like Magi in the current era. She's also different in that people from the AOG could pronounce divine words to do their magecraft. But it's still magecraft.
*sigh*
No, Medea does not use Magecraft, because she doesn't invoke Mysteries. Magecraft is fundamentally "using a thaumaturgical system engraved into the World to replicate a miracle." That is not what Medea does; what Medea does is almost Marble Phantasm, speaking words of divinity to compel the World to act as she pleases.
No, Medea does not use Magecraft, because she doesn't invoke Mysteries. Magecraft is fundamentally "using a thaumaturgical system engraved into the World to replicate a miracle." That is not what Medea does; what Medea does is almost Marble Phantasm, speaking words of divinity to compel the World to act as she pleases.
That being said, yes, I believe it is true that magecraft used to be synonymous with Magic, in the sense that there was no such thing as "someone who could work outside science/the common sense, but couldn't do the impossible." Because everything was impossible, pretty much.
As humanity grew up people found ways to "cheat" the requirements on things they could already do - magecraft - which was significantly easier than working a miracle, which is good because fewer and fewer people could work miracles.
As humanity grew up people found ways to "cheat" the requirements on things they could already do - magecraft - which was significantly easier than working a miracle, which is good because fewer and fewer people could work miracles.
High Speed Divine Words are not magecraft, they're a way of casting allowing Medea to do 'high thaumaturgy' with a word instead of needing long rituals or using oneshot gems with years of prana like modern magi but she still needs to know the actual magecraft to do anything with it. Medea is a magus from the age of gods that uses magecraft from that era that modern magi can't hope to equal. But she's still a magus using magecraft.
Magecraft was different in the AOG for several reasons like humanity being fundamentally different back then thanks to existing closer to 'Truth' but not actually touching it in contrast to the modern era where humanity is farther way from 'Truth' but can actually reach it.
Hm. I thought I remembered differently, but now I can't remember where I found it.
Well, even so, at the end of the day I do maintain that she's not invoking a thaumaturgical foundation - there's no need for it, not when she was personally taught by Hecate. She's a "magus" in the sense that she's not using True Magic, but at the end of the day she can achieve most of the "results" of True Magic, teleportation being the most obvious example.
(Though it's kind of odd that teleportation is so difficult. After all, even if "instant movement" is something impossible, "moving from place to place" is trivial. Something like "non-instant transmission from point A to point B without passing the space in between" seems well within the domain of magecraft.)
Those are all references to Age Of The Gods style magic, which has little to nothing in common with modern Magecraft.
Medea can do stuff similar to true magic because in her era the difference wasn't really there since people were innate closer to the root even if none of them actually touched it. AOG is different from AOM and things changed when the era shifted; dragon corpses became oil, true ether went away and people started to get magic circuits. She's still a magus though and until you come up with some kind of cite that actually says Medea is not using a foundation because I really have no idea where you got that from, I'm going to say that the magus from the age of gods that uses magecraft from the age of gods actually does magecraft.
Dude you were wrong, suck it up. Or if you can't believe me, go to Beast's Lair and have them tell you how wrong you are.
daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Medea was the daughter of King Aetes (son of Helios-the-God and Perceis-the-Ocean-Titan) and Queen Idyia (daughter of Oceanus-the-Titan-God and Tethys-the-Titan).
Medea was a hybrid deity without any human blood. Comparing something like that to a human magus... Their fundamental biological capabilities are different.
Considering how many heroes and kings were demigods in the myths and stories of the Age of Gods, I tend to the view that the reason people were "greater back then" was because they were less human, because of all the divine interbreeding.
Medea was a hybrid deity without any human blood. Comparing something like that to a human magus... Their fundamental biological capabilities are different.
Considering how many heroes and kings were demigods in the myths and stories of the Age of Gods, I tend to the view that the reason people were "greater back then" was because they were less human, because of all the divine interbreeding.
Frakir's brother
Goodbye.
- Location
- The Sea of Trees
Hervor~
Humanity was different in a lot of ways back then, not just the heroes. If a person from our age was to go back to that era, they would burst from the true ether in the air. There's also the thing about humans being closer to truth back then but stuck in a cycle in contrast to modern humans being farther away but able to progress towards truth.
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plotvitalnpc
Once more walking the path of the catgirl.
Hm. @daniel_gudman
Formalcraft can be used even if you don't have circuits, right?
Can someone practice multiple styles of magecraft?
Say, runecraft and gemcraft?
I have the mental image of using runecraft and gemcraft to create, and formalcraft to then charge, mystic codes created by and for someone with no circuits.
They respond to being worn, or swung, or personal intent. You don't need to give it any magical input to 'fire'.
Perthro runes and the gem serve as the prana reserve, which is filled with a formalcraft circle that concentrates and forces in mana.
Is that fundamental idea even viable?
Formalcraft can be used even if you don't have circuits, right?
Can someone practice multiple styles of magecraft?
Say, runecraft and gemcraft?
I have the mental image of using runecraft and gemcraft to create, and formalcraft to then charge, mystic codes created by and for someone with no circuits.
They respond to being worn, or swung, or personal intent. You don't need to give it any magical input to 'fire'.
Perthro runes and the gem serve as the prana reserve, which is filled with a formalcraft circle that concentrates and forces in mana.
Is that fundamental idea even viable?
- Location
- Singapore
Nah, unlikely.
I mean, Omi the fool was based on tokiomi, who was pretty famous compared to a bunch of high school girls.
It's unlikely that magecraft enacted in such way will have high enough efficiency to be very useful in direct combat applications and cutting edge research by itself.
But at the same time, the idea of offloading a lot of 'casual' magecraft usage on 'external provider' is something SAO community has good chances of reaching (something like a power-armor skinsuit that provides climate control, basic shielding, prelinmary mana filtration, airtight sealing, Self Reinforcement/Runes framework... a Gantz Suit + ME Omni-tool for example?).
The idea is to free up as much of limited resources of magus as possible.
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daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes and yes -- supposedly Atlas Alchemy doesn't require Circuits either, but since that came via Sion I've been hestitating to use it, just like all Tsukihime stuff.
Multiple styles are possible, but it's like double-majoring; you can study, but once you get into research, it turns into a personal hybrid style? Or something like that.
That's kind of where I'm positioning Argo: intellectually hungry and learning stuff for the self-satisfaction of knowing a lot, as compared to her teacher who always looks at things narrowly through "Swords".
I guess?
Well, in the end "doing stuff for you" is the purpose of Familiars.
...Well, a lot of the SWORD BEAMUs from the KoRT were basically the same, a non-Caster swing their sword and shot out a lazor powered by their... I guess their Aura or something. Saber had that Dragon Trait that allowed her to pump out Od in gobs, even in she didn't have Circuits to store in & use for spellcasting.
This has a lot in common with Heathen's side-story project, I feel like; he was also talking about autonomous, self-acting Mystic Codes, I think I talked him into familiars.
- Location
- Singapore
Question. Can someone create something like the shadow clone technique?
daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Something like yeah-- a paper shikigami with a hair attached to it can take on the appearance of that person, that one is classic.
The memory transfer thing seems like it would be hard and possibly quite dangerous -- opening your mind for a transmission like that sounds like a great way to get possessed by something.
The thing is, the Kawarimi, the Bunshin, and the Henge are all traditional ninja magic, but in the manga from the 80s and early 90s and stuff, they were Master-level abilities only jounin could pull off. So Kishimoto built a ton of power-creep into chapter one....
Anyway I'm still trying to figure out how far into cartoon territory in gonna take the Ninja Guild.
The memory transfer thing seems like it would be hard and possibly quite dangerous -- opening your mind for a transmission like that sounds like a great way to get possessed by something.
The thing is, the Kawarimi, the Bunshin, and the Henge are all traditional ninja magic, but in the manga from the 80s and early 90s and stuff, they were Master-level abilities only jounin could pull off. So Kishimoto built a ton of power-creep into chapter one....
Anyway I'm still trying to figure out how far into cartoon territory in gonna take the Ninja Guild.
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Heaven Canceler
I would like to have a cool title.
- Location
- Austria
Eh, it is important to remember that the whole magecraft/circuit thing is a concept made by Solomon and was mostly strong in Europe and the western world, then spread around throughout the ages.
If you consider that, there have to be who knows how many other ways to use pseudo-magic that isn't magecraft considering that for example, the native americans had their own stuff and so did the Japanese/Asian with curses and witchcraft.
Strangely, we never really see native magic users for the most part, it is always people who studied the European stuff.
Edit: To give an example, Onmyodo & Ninjutsu magic shouldn't even use circuits at all as they wouldn't have known of them at all.
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- Location
- Singapore
Well, it obviously can be used to learn more magecraft.
or, maybe you can make it like... some sort of sacrifical weapon or tool.
You use the tool to kill someone, then you get their abilities, like their knowledge and sorcery traits. It's not that insane, considering someone was able to replicate the powers of heroic spirits in their bodies.