Well, this looks interesting. Based on power synergies I'm more interested in a white splash than-

your seclusion has left you shy and unsure of how to handle social interactions more complicated than "Thank you," "You're welcome," and "Do you want any help?" At least you don't necessarily have to talk to people to defend them
Oh hell no. I have seen shy and socially awkward characters run by this GM before and my interest in having yet another is well into the negatives. The green/black powerset is still interesting and I will take being a huge bitch over the green/white personality template any day.

[x] Black
 
The weird thing is that a Green/White personality is quite contrary to the personality shown by the White writein.
 
Well, this looks interesting. Based on power synergies I'm more interested in a white splash than-

Oh hell no. I have seen shy and socially awkward characters run by this GM before and my interest in having yet another is well into the negatives.

I mean, not that the GM did the shy and socially awkward character badly, quite the contrary, but I agree that I'm interested in seeing something new. Specifically, seeing the GM write a character struggling with their inner bitch in an interesting and entertaining way.
 
Is this going to be similar to Ignition? Or just in pmmm world?
Is this in the universe of Ignition, or is this separate? ... Is this a prequel?
This shares a bunch of magic mechanics with Ignirion to avoid confusing people, but it has a different history/timeline; it's not the same setting.


Oh hell no. I have seen shy and socially awkward characters run by this GM before and my interest in having yet another is well into the negatives. The green/black powerset is still interesting and I will take being a huge bitch over the green/white personality template any day.

You say that like there's not a spectrum; "hesitant/awkward" might be a better description for her. She does want to make friends and is going to actively try to do so, she just has no idea what she's supposed to say.

However, I do understand your hesitation and different people enjoy different characters, so you do you.
 
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[X] Black

I would really, really like to see a PC who wasn't the same bland "good guy" again. You know the sort - always makes the unselfish choice, self-sacrificing to a fault, etc. etc.... it would just be really nice to play a character who's supposed to be a bit of an asshole? (Read: not a saint).

Not that I've had that problem with Alivaril's quests specifically, but deliberately aiming for some variety seems like a good idea.
 
As a side observation, you've chosen to format your post very strangely. It was a little difficult to parse out the text.

Two of the deciding factors for me are:

1. Socially insecure White is by necessity going to be somewhat similar to early Jade from Ignition,

and 2., I just think that the journey of the bitchy Black to be less of a bitch is going to be more interesting as well as amusing. ("Oh god why did I just say that, I'm an idiot.")
Fundamentally, most stories are about overcoming challenges, quests in particular, and the bigger the challenges, the more intersting those stories tend to be. People that are voting White because they think it'll be easier, imo, are missing the point.
If it's true that choosing Black will make our mission more difficult (and I'm not convinced that's true; For starters, White is about order and the greater good. They're just as likely to sell you out if it's for the greater good, they're just as likely to alienate people with dogma and controlling behaviour), then that is not a bad thing.
And as others have pointed out, Black and White are not about Good and Evil. None of the colors are. Every color is equally capable of being the hero or the villain.

The first two are fair. Fortunately, I dropped Ignition along with everything else when I took a long sabbatical from SV and have been too lazy to read back through the surely-very-long backlog (also tbh Jade just failed to grab me as a character the first time around for some reason, despite that I normally have a soft spot for the socially awkward and traumatized), so I'm not burnt out on shy characters. I don't really see the Bitchy Black being particularly amusing because the entire time I'll know it's not really about becoming nicer; it's about becoming more outwardly polite in the pursuit of a goal, and learning that kind of deceptiveness just removes part of the appeal for me (which is a character who is admirably upfront about her nature).

As for stories being about overcoming challenges: that's true for stories, in which you're only along for the ride, but this is a quest, an interactive medium, which gives it much more in common with games. Games that are too difficult invite frustration and hinder engagement. I'd vote for the more difficult option if we didn't have enough difficulty coming out of the premise of scheming against an immortal alien hivemind to save the world from Kriemhild Gretchen (which, let me remind you, our goal is not Wapurgisnacht, it's Kriemhild Gretchen). You could argue that someone with an entirely pragmatic point of view might find that easier, and (...) maybe. I could see that argument. It really depends on how cynical you are about the magical girls we'll meet and what you really think is acceptable when it comes to recruiting impressionable young girls to our cause.

(As for White being just as likely to sell you out and alienate people-- yes, certainly, but I don't see it in the White we've been presented with. I'm not working off of stereotypes and generalizations when I make these judgements of Black; I'm working off of what I'm seeing in her write-up. Although it's possible that Black (or White) could defy my assessment-- and let's be honest: we all know SV is going to defang her; SV as a collective (like most people) does not know when to be ruthless and when not to be ruthless-- it would remove one of the greatest benefits of being a ruthlessly pragmatic Black, which is actually being ruthlessly pragmatic.)

I'm seeing "she is Tsundere" here.

This implies that there is a sweet side being hidden by the rudeness and cruelty. I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing a strong belief in the goal of saving the world, an admirable level of honesty toward who she is and what she's willing to do for that goal, and a great deal of ambition founded on selfishness, but I'm not seeing a sweet side. At her best, Black strikes me as a shark-- predatory, efficient, and brutal. That makes for an interesting character, and one I might be far more interested in than White in another context, but not someone with a sweet side to be revealed.
 
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...Earth mana? Sorry, mono-Green is not an option in this quest. :V

[X] Black

I would really, really like to see a PC who wasn't the same bland "good guy" again. You know the sort - always makes the unselfish choice, self-sacrificing to a fault, etc. etc.... it would just be really nice to play a character who's supposed to be a bit of an asshole? (Read: not a saint).

Not that I've had that problem with Alivaril's quests specifically, but deliberately aiming for some variety seems like a good idea.
What you're actually observing here is a selection effect. I see plenty of quests start with the premise that the PC won't be a particularly good person. The problem is that every such quest dies within a month because the part of SV's population that wants a non-Good character has trouble distinguishing "maybe we can insult people occasionally" non-Good from "maybe murder people for shits and giggles occasionally" non-Good. At that point the quest is either killed by the mods, abandoned by a disgusted QM, or terminally derailed because the plot depended on the PC giving a quarter of a shit.

A serious quest, unlike a video game or a crack quest that exists moment-to-moment and has no permanence or consequences, needs some emotional connection. "Make the number go up" can't get someone to come back after three days to carefully consider a delicate conversation and make a considered, well-reasoned vote. So there is no "neutral plot" option - a successful quest is one of Crack, Evil, or Good.

So, sorry, your choices are basically Good PC or no PC. You can pick what flavor of Good PC you want, but for anything else you need to be on either QQ (which can offer motives other than plot) or 4chan (which executes the crack quest better than SV ever could).
 
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What you're actually observing here is a selection effect. I see plenty of quests start with the premise that the PC won't be a particularly good person. The problem is that every such quest dies within a month because the part of SV's population that wants a non-Good character has trouble distinguishing "maybe we can insult people occasionally" non-Good from "maybe murder people for shits and giggles occasionally" non-Good. At that point the quest is either killed by the mods, abandoned by a disgusted QM, or terminally derailed because the plot depended on the PC giving a quarter of a shit.

A serious quest, unlike a video game or a crack quest that exists moment-to-moment and has no permanence or consequences, needs some emotional connection. "Make the number go up" can't get someone to come back after three days to carefully consider a delicate conversation and make a considered, well-reasoned vote. So there is no "neutral plot" option - your choices are Crack, Evil, and Good.

So, sorry, your choices are basically Good PC or no PC. You can pick what flavor of Good PC you want, but for anything else you need to be on either QQ (which can offer motives other than plot) or 4chan (which executes the crack quest better than SV ever could).
There's a difference between "Not Evil" and "Saintly". I think it's perfectly viable to want a quest the main character doesn't always pick the "good" option (which then inevitably gets "rewarded", because heroes have to be rewarded for doing good things :mad:.)

Frankly, I think the effect you're describing is caused by people who want a non-good PC piling onto every quest which might offer them such, and then they want different things - but they only have maybe one quest in existence at a time that might offer the character they're looking for, so they all try to make it work for that one. The problem is caused by a lack of evil quests to choose from - the answer is not to say "well, gee, we can't have evil quests then!"
 
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[X] Black

We can likely use black mana to instant witch a magic girl if we want to. Or use their grief to yank their soul gems to us.
 
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Hence why I'm not so sure it's a good choice. Not only will cooperation be useful in this scenario, but Black and Green don't combo as neatly as White does with Green. They are enemy colors, after all. The shared focus on poisons/toxins can be powerful, and the lifeforms that take well to both (mushrooms, decomposers/scavengers) are useful, but it's not as smooth a combination, and it seems like we've been kept from refining the stronger "recycling/life-death cycle" aspects of the combo.

Overall, I think White-Green will work out better for us. The ability to gain power from Grief is certainly tempting, though.
Was really surprised to see black and green being enemies on the color wheel. Many of my decks have been based on black and green. They have the power of recycling.
The more you use Green mana, the more of it your surroundings will produce. Killing an infused being doesn't halt Green generation, just slows it down slightly; the Green released by their demise will continue to help other life grow and thrive. An entire land would have to be burned to the ground and the ashes salted before Green would be truly wasted.
With Black we will actually gain power from our loses. Green allows you to make loads and loads of minions which are therefor more expendable black makes you gain power whenever any of them die. In fact a feel like a powerful strategy would be to build up for a while then sacrifice for a large burst of power. Take QB by surprise and take him over with said burst of power then sacrifice the QB for take on the incubators in general.
 
There's a difference between "Not Evil" and "Saintly". I think it's perfectly viable to want a quest the main character doesn't always pick the "good" option (which then inevitably gets "rewarded", because heroes have to be rewarded for doing good things :mad:.)

Frankly, I think the effect you're describing is caused by people who want a non-good PC piling onto every quest which might offer them such, and then they want different things - but they only have maybe one quest in existence at a time that might offer the character they're looking for, so they all try to make it work for that one. The problem is caused by a lack of evil quests to choose from - the answer is not to say "well, gee, we can't have evil quests then!"
I think that fictionfan proves my point for me:
We can likely use black mana to instant witch a magic girl if we want to.
Beyond the fact that Witches are literal singularities of suffering - grief causes negative emotion, negative emotion accelerates creation of grief, feed back until the system diverges and the girl generates more grief in an instant than she would have created in an entire lifetime in the post-madokami Wraith universe - look at the word choice there. Not need. Not have to. Not anything of the sort. "Want to".

There isn't some tiny pool of "evil people" that stay quiet and good except when a suitable quest pops up and then they all pile on to it. No, it's much more like real life. There are horrible people everywhere and they are continually trying to ruin everything we love. It's not even a screaming horde of barbarians at the gates; they are everywhere, in every quest, and they are always voting for evil shit. PMAS has a reputation for horrible toxicity because it is under siege by people who vote for the PC, who is one of the most established heroic characters in any quest on SV, to force people to witch out or hurt her friends or straight-up give up on being good. A lot of those same voters are right fucking here and they are voting for the same evil shit.
 
Beyond the fact that Witches are literal singularities of suffering - grief causes negative emotion, negative emotion accelerates creation of grief, feed back until the system diverges and the girl generates more grief in an instant than she would have created in an entire lifetime in the post-madokami Wraith universe - look at the word choice there. Not need. Not have to. Not anything of the sort. "Want to".

There isn't some tiny pool of "evil people" that stay quiet and good except when a suitable quest pops up and then they all pile on to it. No, it's much more like real life. There are horrible people everywhere and they are continually trying to ruin everything we love. It's not even a screaming horde of barbarians at the gates; they are everywhere, in every quest, and they are always voting for evil shit. PMAS has a reputation for horrible toxicity because it is under siege by people who vote for the PC, who is one of the most established heroic characters in any quest on SV, to force people to witch out or hurt her friends or straight-up give up on being good. They are right fucking here.
This is a a lot of rhetoric with very little substance. I am saying that in every PMMM story I have every seen the most dangerous fights have always been against magic girls and black has a bunch of instant win buttons against them by targeting their weaknesses.

The word you missed is "if". If we are fighting a magic girl to the death I would much rather instant witch her and sacrifice the witch then kill her and get nothing. If we don't want to kill her the black should be able to let us instant win by grabbing the grief in their soul and yanking the soul gem to us.

More importantly have you considered how we will be able to help your magic girl friends with black? We can drain the grief from their souls for power. In other words unlike white or green their should be no limit to how much grief we can take out of their soul gems because it gains us power rather then losing it. White and green can only deal with a limited amount of grief before we run out of power.
 
There's a difference between "Not Evil" and "Saintly". I think it's perfectly viable to want a quest the main character doesn't always pick the "good" option (which then inevitably gets "rewarded", because heroes have to be rewarded for doing good things :mad:)

Frankly, I think the effect you're describing is caused by people who want a non-good PC piling onto every quest which might offer them such, and then they want different things - but they only have maybe one quest in existence at a time that might offer the character they're looking for, so they all try to make it work for that one. The problem is caused by a lack of evil quests to choose form - the answer is not to say "well, gee, we can't have evil quests then!"

That's a surprisingly idealistic way to see it. Amoral protagonists are a tough tightrope to walk even when you have full control of the narrative. In a quest, you've got the people who (when it gets down to it) are too squeamish to go for the cruel option combining with people who want a redemption arc to twist the character into being relatively good. Then, you've got the people who can't recognize the difference between amoral pragmatism and nihilistic edginess (or deliberately confuse them) combining with people who want their amoral protagonist to stay amoral progressively growing more extreme, pushing the character into becoming unsympathetic (and that's putting it charitably). The people stuck in the middle can't fight people at the extremes for long because fiery zealotry works much better than any call for moderation and complexity when it comes to encouraging bandwagons.

From that recipe can only come salt and drama and eventually someone will go too far and then you're lucky if the thread doesn't get locked or the QM doesn't quit. Ideally we'd try to have evil quests anyway, because it's not like that's inevitable, right? Yeah, not from a quest where people are offered the choice to begin with. If you want a non-good quest, you have to start with a premise that clearly favors amoral actions and punishes moral ones (like Skaven Quest), just like if you want a idealistic quest you have to start with a premise that clearly favors moral actions. Give people a choice and you will attract too many people with wildly incompatible mindsets and visions of how the quest should go. That can be "fixed" later on when the character eventually pushes too far one way or the other, but then they're not amoral and you'll have waded through so much fire and salt and hate to get there. The only way to avoid that is to solely attract the people with reconcilable goals to begin with.

I'm not sure why people keep implicitly putting White in the saintly box, by the way. People are going out of their way to dispute Black being evil, yet somehow White still has to be saintly?

We can likely use black mana to instant witch a magic girl if we want to. Or use their grief to yank their soul gems to us.

Beyond the fact that Witches are literal singularities of suffering - grief causes negative emotion, negative emotion accelerates creation of grief, feed back until the system diverges and the girl generates more grief in an instant than she would have created in an entire lifetime in the post-madokami Wraith universe - look at the word choice there. Not need. Not have to. Not anything of the sort. "Want to".

There isn't some tiny pool of "evil people" that stay quiet and good except when a suitable quest pops up and then they all pile on to it. No, it's much more like real life. There are horrible people everywhere and they are continually trying to ruin everything we love. It's not even a screaming horde of barbarians at the gates; they are everywhere, in every quest, and they are always voting for evil shit. PMAS has a reputation for horrible toxicity because it is under siege by people who vote for the PC, who is one of the most established heroic characters in any quest on SV, to force people to witch out or hurt her friends or straight-up give up on being good. A lot of those same voters are right fucking here and they are voting for the same evil shit.

This response comes off as a little too broad and zealous for my tastes ("continually trying to ruin everything we love"...?), but... yeah. Yeah, that was a pretty awful thing to even bring up at all.
 
unlike white or green their should be no limit to how much grief we can take out of their soul gems
No, actually:
The more you draw on in a short period of time, the more exhausted you become and the more susceptible you are to disease.
If we don't want to kill her the black should be able to let us instant win by grabbing the grief in their soul and yanking the soul gem to us.
We aren't Sabrina.
I'm not sure why people keep implicitly putting White in the saintly box, by the way. People are going out of their way to dispute Black being evil, yet somehow White still has to be saintly?
No, but at least White doesn't attract the edgelords and offer the assholes a huge box of tools that we will have to fight them over in every single vote.
You even came up with a slightly weaker version that doesn't recall/enslave souls and they still said it was off-limits! Honestly, it's like they forget what we're facing.
You see this? Every single time this comes up, we will have to actively justify the expense of an "extra" mote or two so we aren't enslaving someone's soul.
 
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