Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[BirdBodhisattva]

Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Spoiler: Or if you'd rather hear it from someone else

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.

Click to shrink...

(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)

 

[Venerable Ro]

The way I see it, all the options here are ways to "not lose". The only true steps that get you closer to "winning" is to (1) locate a suitable outsider, (2) discover a method to kill said outsider, and (3) perform the deed of killing the Outsider. Preferably in that order. Anything else is not losing.

Click to shrink...

For the sake of Grail shennaniganry and potent symbology thereof, would (hypothetically) an Outsider's afterbirth satisfy the requirement of "an Outsider's blood"? A Mensicate mirror, surest proof of life and beginnings to balance surest proof of death and endings.

 

[Heimdall1342]

Oof.

[X] Accept her offer

We're gonna have a lot of weight on our shoulders no matter what wins.

I do desperately wish there was more ability for choice or write in or a roll or something. Some way we could finagle a slightly less terrible option.

Though I admit that's partly just how I play stuff. I hate bad outcomes like this. I'll save scum as much as I need to to get what I'm hoping for. Fuck.

The only honest bad thing about this fairly important vote is there is no choice of chance, just a bunch of set in stone choices. Come on Bird give us the rolls we oh so desire. Make us regret even think about it.

Click to shrink...

You aren't wrong about a roll

Bro, if that happened the Salt would have a chance of killing the Quest given our history with important rolls?

Click to shrink...

And you aren't wrong either.

I think it's feeling like the only options are bad without a chance of not that makes this particular bit hit so hard.

 

[BritBiscuit]

For the sake of Grail shennaniganry and potent symbology thereof, would (hypothetically) an Outsider's afterbirth satisfy the requirement of "an Outsider's blood"? A Mensicate mirror, surest proof of life and beginnings to balance surest proof of death and endings.

Click to shrink...

I'm not Bird and don't have a perfect memory or a quote but I'm fairly certain a similar question about collecting blood without actually killing them was responded too with a quote of the sacrifices part of the ritual informational thread, I believe that the reasoning was that blood was powerful when it is spilled in sacrifice or something but im not entirely sure so don't quote me on that.
Although the Grail symbolism is interesting and id think it would be more occultly significant than regular blood.

 

[Kai Merah]

[X] Offer yourself instead.

 

[jason1stlegion]

Note that in the "Voting Opened" threadmark, the only option that doesn't have definite, known drawbacks which we are certain will impede our preferences or actions, is "Offer yourself instead", with the only definite cost being a single AP.

I just thought that was interesting

 

[Alias Sails]

[X] Accept her offer.
[X] Offer yourself instead.

The first I think leaves us in the best spot as Velvet- not speaking for morals or straining relationships at least, while the second I'll at least take over the other three.

 

[Venerable Ro]

Although the Grail symbolism is interesting and id think it would be more occultly significant than regular blood.

Click to shrink...

It would be utterly singular, the birth-blood of the firstborn child of an immortal, potentially an immortal child at that. There has never been such a thing before, it is the first.

Is it not a thing of Moth, that every ending is a beginning and every beginning an end, change revolving like a Wheel? Something new marking the death of something old, History proves it so.

 

[reborn214]

"As you all well know, until now there was little we could do, apart from studying our knowledge and spreading our beliefs. We are powerless to act against the many forces that can suddenly rise against our world. The doors to Equestria are wide open, and any being or Outsider may just barge into it as it sees fit, attracted by the fires of Harmony and magic that the alicorns so zealously stoke."

You hear the sound of pacing, the Master's voice slowly circling around the gathered audience as it speaks.

"Ancient threats like the rampaging Tirek and the deceiving Scorpan, who nearly sucked the life out of the world. Cruel shadows that creep through the hinges of reality. Those, and many others, dating all the way back to Discord, the chaotic god, the first Outsider to enter this world and wreak havoc… But we are powerless to hide, Equestria cannot be hidden as long as it continues to blaze with energy as it does, and we are powerless to do anything about it as long as the abominable alicorns reign and care for the flames."

Click to shrink...

Not sure if here Master was saying Tirek was an outsider or an ancient Threat. He did specifically mention Discord is an Outsider. If only Master could have given us a list of his known Outsiders before he left.

Anyway, I think between Tirek and Discord. Tirek should be the "easier" person to kill as if he doesn't snowball by eating everyone's magic you can gank him before he gets way way more power in ambush. "Easier" in quotation marks. If we mess up and feed Tirek, then we have invited another endgame disaster to Equestria. Discord can both flee and tear apart large mobs by inciting discord that try to gank him, so large groups or us leveraging Name armies to take him I don't believe will work at all.

The other option is if the doorway to Equestria is wide open and anyone can barge in, then similarly the doorway is open enough to let us leave and go hunt an Outsider from beyond Equestria in an ambush. We could have Baldomare scry for the metaphysical door that leads outside Equestria and find a suitable outsider to murder though again if we fail we invite another outside threat. We can also scry both avenues. Baldomare scry Tirek's full history of where he came from and where he was sealed and we scry the gate.

I don't believe we are figuring out a better way than murder anytime soon for blood acquisition at this point.

 

[Kaelor]

I think I understand your rationale. But what I mean by "winning versus not losing" is entirely different from that.

The way I see it, all the options here are ways to "not lose". The only true steps that get you closer to "winning" is to (1) locate a suitable outsider, (2) discover a method to kill said outsider, and (3) perform the deed of killing the Outsider. Preferably in that order. Anything else is not losing.

"Oh, but if we kill the Master he won't be able to stop us anymore!"

Exactly. That is "not losing". You are extending the amount of time you have to perform your win-condition of reaching Glory. But objectively speaking, you are no closer to Glory than you were before.

You can make the argument that "but with less obstacles we ARE closer". Sure. But respectfully, in my opinion, that is just semantics.
I mean. Pretend you are in a race against a Velvet from another History. This turn, you kill the Master, and she finds an Outsider. Who is objectively closer to winning?
That is what Baldomare means by "focus on winning, instead of not losing".

Still, I jumped in because I suppose this whole argument started from that "advice" I gave. Carry on.

Click to shrink...

I mean, by that logic the only "winning" move to make at this point is to let the Master do whatever they want while we go back inside and stomp Selene's skull in. Then we ditch the wedding to go to the Mansus and get Glory.

Yay, we win!

-

I'm not disagreeing with your premise, you are absolutely correct, but from an objective standpoint there are no options in this vote that we know will get us closer to winning...but there may be some options that will help us not lose.

From a narrative perspective, structuring everything around MUST REACH GLORY is stressful and boring. Saying goodbye to Selene, meeting with our brother, Candace's wedding stuff, none of that was getting us closer to Glory so they were wasted actions. Some of the best moments of the quest would never have happened of we only ever voted for stuff that gets us closer to Glory.

We do need to focus up on our objectives, but I think we can agree that exclusively focusing on those objectives wouldn't be fun for anyone.

 

[BirdBodhisattva]

but from an objective standpoint there are no options in this vote that we know will get us closer to winning

Click to shrink...

Yes, that is precisely what I said.

And come to think of it, part of the initial frustration with the options could come from the idea that "in a quest, in any given vote, there should always be an option in which the player wins". Which is clearly not the case here.

Some of the best moments of the quest would never have happened of we only ever voted for stuff that gets us closer to Glory.

We do need to focus up on our objectives, but I think we can agree that exclusively focusing on those objectives wouldn't be fun for anyone.

Click to shrink...

I also completely agree with this. Thankfully, both opinions can exist at the same time.

 

[Teal]

[X] Show her your true colors.

 

[Venerable Ro]

I don't believe we are figuring out a better way than murder anytime soon for blood acquisition at this point.

Click to shrink...

I think my scheme has a good chance of holding occult water, and it would certainly be quite the payoff for all the work we've put in getting this close to Cadance. Goodness knows there was no other way we'd be able to be right there at the moment of Flurry's birth.

 

[Light Seeker]

Note that in the "Voting Opened" threadmark, the only option that doesn't have definite, known drawbacks which we are certain will impede our preferences or actions, is "Offer yourself instead", with the only definite cost being a single AP.

I just thought that was interesting

Click to shrink...

This is a wise observation.

 

[quantum lurker]

We do need to focus up on our objectives, but I think we can agree that exclusively focusing on those objectives wouldn't be fun for anyone.

Click to shrink...

I agree! I was about to write a similar post, mentioning how
while Glory is good (it gets rid of the Worms, and a unlimited number of Windigos), Mother of Wolves also gets rids of the Worms.
So what's the difference?

We have had a mountain of unnecessary actions through the Turns -
not taking Jade as a minion and spending more actions on her,
spending 2 actions on Silky,
visiting Comet Feet for what was effectively absolutely no reward,
...
leaving the Cult instead of keeping it intact (and saving the Rarity options we used on surviving that), and then using its resources to reach Glory

and how while Glory is good, it can't solve the problems within its owner - Glory can't be used on problems that Velvet has grown numb to, or can be used actively detrimentally if Velvet sees bad things as acceptable,
and how while Glory is good, it won't matter much to Velvet beyond Worms if she had to sacrifice her family for it.
And how while we, and Velvet would have played differently if we knew the Stakes, there were actions we simply would have done again ANYWAY..

---

But, our delaying this way has resulted in us likely doing another RA, and in the future another RA, and in the future...
Why bother with any of this stuff if the result is just our enemies getting to kick our face in over and over and over again?


So,
[X] Kill the Master [THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION]
at least it makes getting our other Victory easier, even if its Regrettable by the very definition; and we can take out some of the threats for the next Era to deal with if we fail?

 

[BritBiscuit]

I mean, by that logic the only "winning" move to make at this point is to let the Master do whatever they want while we go back inside and stomp Selene's skull in. Then we ditch the wedding to go to the Mansus and get Glory.

Yay, we win!

-

I'm not disagreeing with your premise, you are absolutely correct, but from an objective standpoint there are no options in this vote that we know will get us closer to winning...but there may be some options that will help us not lose.

From a narrative perspective, structuring everything around MUST REACH GLORY is stressful and boring. Saying goodbye to Selene, meeting with our brother, Candace's wedding stuff, none of that was getting us closer to Glory so they were wasted actions. Some of the best moments of the quest would never have happened of we only ever voted for stuff that gets us closer to Glory.

We do need to focus up on our objectives, but I think we can agree that exclusively focusing on those objectives wouldn't be fun for anyone.

Click to shrink...

I agree with what you are saying but i'm pretty sure that by that Bird was giving advice on how to most easily win, what we have chosen as a playerbase is to try to win without many sacrifices in Velvets personal life and while trying to remain as moral as practically possible, this is a perfectly fine choice but I think Bird was saying that doing things like that will make achieving victory harder as less actions and decisions are leading to that goal instead of other things, it is still possible and in fact more fufilling but harder. In addition this advice from Bird came via Baldomare a character who has her own biases and thoughts and who personally decided to focus on achieving Glory to the expense of everything else millenia ago.

 

[Dream Logic]

[X] Show her your true colors.
[X] Kill the Master [THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION]

A major question worth asking is how much longer the quest will go on for. If we can find the will and means to shotgun progression then perhaps banishment might be as good as death?

That said. I find accepting to be unnacceptable above all. I would like to see our Master dead Both for personal satisfaction and our general safety. To that end I would happily accept The Wolf's blessing.

I hope we make the right choice. Though I am honestly unsure what that is.

 

[Toboe]

Note that in the "Voting Opened" threadmark, the only option that doesn't have definite, known drawbacks which we are certain will impede our preferences or actions, is "Offer yourself instead", with the only definite cost being a single AP.

I just thought that was interesting

Click to shrink...

Only If you don't consider Master as potentially antagonistic. Like this update, could be warm and fuzzy fluff if Master didn't force us into a terrible choice.

If you don't, additional drawback:

-The Master will definitely be able to influence, alter, or outright block your actions.

Click to shrink...

Potential drawbacks:

-The Master might (although you are not sure) have access to everything you know.
-The Master might (although you are not sure) have access to all your resources.

Click to shrink...

 

[quantum lurker]

Honestly, it's almost as if the Cultist Simulator part of the setting (which is different from Bird) is telling us that
"what are morals, and family, and the rest of the world as compared to Glory?
Do all the regrettable and Regrettable actions you need to to reach it, or better still burn out this pesky thing called a conscience and not regret them at all!"

"And trying to preserve them too much is futile, because people that don't care will come and stomp your face in whenever they feel like it, so why not join them?"

"You can fix all your mistakes after you reach Glory anyway( no you can't, refunds not accepted) , so why worry?"

Become the problem with the world, and get free popcorn as you watch the aftermath

 

[Tomsawyer18]

Only If you don't consider Master as potentially antagonistic. Like this update, could be warm and fuzzy fluff if Master didn't force us into a terrible choice.

If you don't, additional drawback:

Potential drawbacks:

Click to shrink...

In Master quest the players love velvet and always want to get her involved in their schemes

 

[BlueSteel]

[X] Kill the Master [THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION]

 

[jason1stlegion]

I don't believe we are figuring out a better way than murder anytime soon for blood acquisition at this point.

Click to shrink...

This assumes that murder will work. It probably will, I agree, but right now we don't have guarantees for anything regarding that trait.

Only If you don't consider Master as potentially antagonistic. Like this update, could be warm and fuzzy fluff if Master didn't force us into a terrible choice.

If you don't, additional drawback:

Potential drawbacks:

Click to shrink...

Even if you consider the Master as an eldritch entity that often likes hurting people but observably allows us our mortal foibles of empathy and anti-murder, that gives us a bound on how much the Master will actually restrict our actions, and the answer seems to be surprisingly little.

On the other hand, the other options all have certain drawbacks:

For Refuse, certain drawbacks all:

-Shining Armor will wake up as a prisoner of his own body.
-The Master, using Shining's body, will proceed to marry Cadance. And have a marital life with her.
-The Master will gain access to everything Shining Armor had access to.
-Things can go very badly the moment the Master realizes you are his enemy.
-There are no known ways to "exorcise" Shining Armor. If that is even possible at all.

Click to shrink...

For Banish, most of the drawbacks are certain:

-Shining Armor will die, with all that entails.
-You will use one Wrong Key.
-The Master will actively start to move against you as an enemy.

Click to shrink...

And on top of that we have uncertain ones:

-You do not know if she is subjected to any "cooldowns" between summons, nor do you know the full breadth of her abilities.
-Such as the ability to attack you in the Mansus or other ways besides.

Click to shrink...

For Accept, I think we've had quite a bit of discussion on how both of these known consequences are bad:

-The Master will use Shining's body to rape Cadance (albeit unknowingly to her)
-The Master will become Cadance's firstborn son. With all that entails.

Click to shrink...

And for Wolf, well...

However, [THIS IS A REGRETTABLE ACTION]

Click to shrink...

 

[Smileyface39]

This is what I imagine happening(my artistic rendition)
View: https://imgur.com/a/5G8tW8Q

 

[BritBiscuit]

In Master quest the players love velvet and always want to get her involved in their schemes

Click to shrink...

Saying it like that makes me think of Velvet and the Master as a duo like Kronk and Izma both very skilled individuals working together on plans and at the climax of the film/quest Velvet/Kronk betrays the other foreshadowed by the characters interactions throughout the work showing one as more caring and moral, with the other being more controlling/manipulative and scheming.

Master calling for Velvet to hand over Mareinette for her plan : Pull the Lever Velvet.
Velvet : Pulls out Regrettable Action
Master as she dies : WRONG LEVER

 

[Tomsawyer18]

On a different note entirely. If Kill the Master wins in Princess Quest the reveal that Velvet made the world a worse place to be to save Shining Armor and Cadence would be a wild revelation that I'd love to see

 

[quantum lurker]

the Master will actually restrict our actions

Click to shrink...

Well, 1AP a turn for 4 turns is one entire month so...


Salt aside (not aimed at Bird), I wonder if we Offer Ourselves can we Moth the Master, and say

"Help me Launder the Lores to Equestria, so I can start a officially sanctioned cult with greater reach through a secret.
I've always wanted Copper's job anyway and have been doing a better job, so let me take over her job, and kill her using all resources I have (Bureau) like you wanted me to do, AND give Celestia's paranoia an safe outlet at the same time.

Besides, having the Bureau move into action will encourage Windy to try harder, don't you think?"

(In the meantime, we hope that the Bureau being aware of Lores and having time to grow, together with Baldomare can burn the Master out of us through the Mirror once we are ready; and go along with whatever atrocities the Master wants us to do so that we can pull this off; and kill Windy using the Bureau afterwards.)

@BirdBodhisattva Does Velvet think this sounds like a reasonable plan (if likely to fail in all kinds of unexpected and exciting ways)?

(It's basically
1: Launder Lores with Master assistance
2: Start a new 'cult', officially sanctioned so it will have better reach
3: Take over Copper's job by killing her (I assume any evidence will be Moth'd away because the Master likes Velvet), and giving a problem for Celestia to sunbeam at.
4: Betray the Master when the Bureau has enough Lore knowledge that with Baldomare's help she can remove the possession safely; and then kill Windy as well)