Eldritch and Cosmic Horror

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Hello! First post, it seems, but that is of little matter now.

After lurking for a bit, I wanted to attempt to get some worldbuilding chatter going on for Cosmic or Eldritch horror and themes, and for those that make use of it, what they like about it. Further, different ways people make use of the tropes and ideas. Many ways to interpret the concepts, and i'm sure those of you that use them have their own takes.

I don't want to clutter the OP, but I will mention such themes play a huge part in my current project, and I have a great joy for this kinda stuff.
Writing on short time, but eventually i'll clear up the OP and make it all nice looking.
 
First post too.

I love eldritch horror, but I think it's hard to write it in an original way. HP Lovecraft's monsters pretty much defined the genre, which is why we see a lot of massive underwater monsters full of tentacles as eldritch abominations. On the other hand if you go too far in the direction of incomprehensible horror and alien geometries it can get a bit too abstract and confusing.

I think eldritch horror was best done in the game Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Without spoiling it, what the game did well was portraying how being chased by an eldritch force can lead to human insanity, with potentially worse consequences.

In general, I like eldritch horror stories that focus on darkness and shadows, and mundane, everyday things that suddenly turn scary, like a room full of shadows of objects that aren't there.
 
I personally prefer a comical/tropey take on eldritch horror to the more serious stuff. I've been playing Darkest Dungeon recently, and while the game is a bit too hard for me, I love the voiceover with the dramatic pauses and Victorian phrasing, as well as the stylized artwork. Things like tentacle monsters, pig people, fish people, nonsense geometry, and crazy cultists just have a lot of potential for humor, much the same way zombies and vampires and things do. Homestuck has another example, in the character of Rose, who "goes grimdark" and fights eldritch horrors with magic knitting needles. (It's been a few years since I read that, so no guarantee on details.)

I do also like the sociological/anthropological side of things like Poe's The Narrative of A. Gordon Pym and Lovecraft's At The Mountains of Madness (one is a sequel of the other), but really I prefer that kind of thing as non-horror. Horror is all too often about xenophobia, and I'm more of a xenophile myself. I'd usually rather read about human/alien first contact and interspecies romance than humans and aliens killing each other or being horrified by each others' alienness.
 
I love eldritch horror, but I think it's hard to write it in an original way. HP Lovecraft's monsters pretty much defined the genre, which is why we see a lot of massive underwater monsters full of tentacles as eldritch abominations. On the other hand if you go too far in the direction of incomprehensible horror and alien geometries it can get a bit too abstract and confusing.

I just want to preface this with the caveat of I'm mostly a hobbyist and my, like, Actual Factual Education on this shit is kinda sparse and is subject to correction by people going HOOOLD OOON TEN but anyway:

I think the main issue with this is that you're confusing the common aesthetics of the genre with the real meat of the stuff. Cosmic horror is more than Cthulu and even the big guy's real terror in the context of the story is not, necessarily, that he's a big fuck-off kaiju but rather that his existence upends everything you thought you knew and took for granted about the universe. Humans are the pinnacle of existence? Lawl. There's a kind and loving God? Nope. Anything in your small, insignificant life really mattering? Come on, he's just going to actually wake up at some point instead of blearily fumbling for his alarm clock and that's it. Lights out civilization. It's...about that sense of uneasiness. That kind of queasy vertigo as your worldview comes unmoored and why the imagery of the ocean and of space is so closely associated with it I think (beyond, y'know, most writers being unimaginative hacks). Water is the closest you can get to the idea of unformed chaos. A lot of ancient texts use the sea or the ocean as an allegory for what the world was like being the World proper began and it makes sense. It's clearly something but it's unformed. It's inconstant. It flows and pours and it's endless and it's deep.

Deep beyond all measure, beyond all imagining.

Anything could be lurking in that deep and how would you know? How would you be able to tell?

I guess in a roundabout way what I'm saying, and why Lovecraft's visions are partially so enduring, is because of the idea behind it. The idea that nothing that was ever important to you really matters in the face of such unimaginable age, such power, such alien will. You are just a small blotch of meat adrift on a little mote of dust in a universe that yawns empty and hungry and bigger than you could ever comprehend. Your ideas of what's important, your image of what you actually are, would be cute if it wasn't so small and sad and meaningless.

Cosmic horror is kinda hard to work with though because it's bleak as fuck and is explicitly geared around a large loss of agency. It's hard to do well, it's easy to botch, and for all that it's evocative it's not something that usually gels well in high concentrations. In that context (and again, amateur stabs in the dark here) what you identify as eldritch horror is sort of a derivative of that. Something that takes the trappings and scales it down, or masks it in something else. Directs the focus elsewhere.

...Mostly I'm just trying to think of a way to shill Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss here. :V I really wouldn't say that it's cosmic horror exactly, there's ways to manage basically everything in the book, but it probably suits your idea of eldritch horror pretty well and has good rules on writing horror all around. One of the most important ideas is that horror needs to be personal. The damage it does needs to mean something significant for the main viewpoint in question. Which seems like a weird thing to say after waxing on a bit about how cosmic horror is all about Nothing Really Mattering and we're all going to turn into Deep Ones anyway so whatever but bear with me.

Cthulu waking up in a thousand years and obliterating human civilization is an abstract kind of scary. It's too big, too far off, too distant to get a handle on. A sailor losing his grip on his sanity as his world unravels is much more visceral and much more unsettling. For all its big ideas, at the end of the day cosmic horror needs to be filtered through a personal lens if you get what I'm saying.

Horror is all too often about xenophobia, and I'm more of a xenophile myself. I'd usually rather read about human/alien first contact and interspecies romance than humans and aliens killing each other or being horrified by each others' alienness.

Well yeah but that's mostly a function, I think, of (well for one writer's being hacks) but also the general rule that the scariest shit is what you don't know. What you don't see, what you can't process, what you don't understand. A serial killer standing across from you in a brightly lit room where you can go "yup, that's a dude in a pig mask" is less scary than your kindly next door neighbor staring dead-eyed at your bedroom window at 3 am as he slowly rips up and eats your mail with a smile.

The first has dimensions, easily determinable threat level, it's something you can understand. The second throws the brain for a loop and doesn't have a clear basis for explanation, and in the absence of facts or firm grounding the brain fills in increasingly dire shit.
 
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I think the main issue with this is that you're confusing the common aesthetics of the genre with the real meat of the stuff.

I pretty much agree with your analysis of cosmic horror.

However, I'd say that the aesthetics of the genre are important too, and I'm just tired of seeing tentacle monsters being the representative eldritch abomination of many cosmic horror works.
 
I mean, Bloodborne doesn't really do tentacles much, at least as far as I've gotten (Just beat Amygdala the other day, working my way through the city of stupid fucking respawning mobs) and I'd argue it's story at minimum verges into cosmic horror.
 
Well yeah but that's mostly a function, I think, of (well for one writer's being hacks) but also the general rule that the scariest shit is what you don't know. What you don't see, what you can't process, what you don't understand. A serial killer standing across from you in a brightly lit room where you can go "yup, that's a dude in a pig mask" is less scary than your kindly next door neighbor staring dead-eyed at your bedroom window at 3 am as he slowly rips up and eats your mail with a smile.

The first has dimensions, easily determinable threat level, it's something you can understand. The second throws the brain for a loop and doesn't have a clear basis for explanation, and in the absence of facts or firm grounding the brain fills in increasingly dire shit.
That's somewhat true, although a lot of people also have phobias and fears due to their personal history - me, I'm afraid of mosquitoes, not because of the disease possibilities but because I've seen too many movies and games wit giant mosquitoes killing people. But that aside, I'm personally not interested in scary stuff as entertainment. So my two preferences that I was describing above are eldritch dark comedy and eldritch fantasy or science fiction; I'm not into horror.
 
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of cosmic horror just doesn't work in the same way anymore.
I guess in a roundabout way what I'm saying, and why Lovecraft's visions are partially so enduring, is because of the idea behind it. The idea that nothing that was ever important to you really matters in the face of such unimaginable age, such power, such alien will. You are just a small blotch of meat adrift on a little mote of dust in a universe that yawns empty and hungry and bigger than you could ever comprehend. Your ideas of what's important, your image of what you actually are, would be cute if it wasn't so small and sad and meaningless.

This, for example. For a lot of people nowadays, this is just a "yeah, and?" Just take a look at Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking. I mean, hell, the entire modern school of existential philosophy centers on being able to understand that your life is meaningless while still putting some meaning into your life anyway.
 
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This, for example. For a lot of people nowadays, this is just a "yeah, and?"

I'd argue pretty strongly that that's not really the case. Not for the average person and not for the average reader/consumer of Cosmic Horror stuff. Like...people might be obliquely aware of shit like that, but they haven't really internalized what it means or even understand it in but the broadest strokes. Being as, y'know, minds like Carl Sagan and Hawking and entire schools of philosophy are not exactly what one would call casually accessible. :V

Honestly part of that is just a willingness to buy into shit. A willingness to be scared. If you just go "I'm woke as fuck and this is silly" you're not really giving it a chance and it's not exactly the fault of the material if you won't try to meet it halfway.

Why are cosmic horror writers so obsessed with tentacles or eyes?

Because tentacles connote to the deep ocean and fucked up things live in the deep, 'cause tentacles serve the same purpose as our own limbs but without being analogous physically ("like but not like") which can bee deeply unsettling, they're squirmy and weird in general too. Eyes are expressive things and too many are a good way of illustrating that Something Is Wrong. Also because if something has a lot of eyes it's more likely to see you.

Also because Lovecraft did a lot of it first and a lot of writers are kinda hacks.
 
This, for example. For a lot of people nowadays, this is just a "yeah, and?" Just take a look at Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking. I mean, hell, the entire modern school of existential philosophy centers on being able to understand that your life is meaningless while still putting some meaning into your life anyway.

Read Division by Zero by Ted Chiang. He didn't choose to go in a horror direction but the concept itself shows that cosmic horror isn't dead, it just needs to specialise and adapt. I'm a scrub casul at maths and can barely begin to grasp the implications and it still disturbed the hell out of me.

That and Hell is the Absence of God, which was also pretty horrifying, though not horror.
 
Because tentacles connote to the deep ocean and fucked up things live in the deep, 'cause tentacles serve the same purpose as our own limbs but without being analogous physically ("like but not like") which can bee deeply unsettling, they're squirmy and weird in general too. Eyes are expressive things and too many are a good way of illustrating that Something Is Wrong. Also because if something has a lot of eyes it's more likely to see you.

Also because Lovecraft did a lot of it first and a lot of writers are kinda hacks.
I see. Its just I wish they would be more creative then just do these tired old stuff.
 
Well yeah but that's mostly a function, I think, of (well for one writer's being hacks) but also the general rule that the scariest shit is what you don't know. What you don't see, what you can't process, what you don't understand.
Which is a reason why a lot of the best horror cosmic and otherwise is the horror that doesn't actually show the horror directly, or minimizes exposure to it. Much of Lovecraft's best work was like that; for example the characters only actually saw the "Colour" in The Colour Out of Space only for a few moments at the end of the story; everything else was its indirect effects or the aftermath of its actions.
 
Something to keep in mind is that even in some of Lovecraft's best works the horrors can and are beaten. The cost is often horrifying and leaves men shattered or dead in their wake along with the potential for it to all happen again.

The Innsmoth horrors can be stopped, the Dunwich horror is practically a sheep in wolf's clothing and many of the other ones are very small scale but they subvert our understanding of the world as we know it and in their wake leave questions with no easy answers.

It's even implied that the Great Ones are like us and just as sad and insignificant on the greater scale. In cosmic horror even the horrors can be faced with the same existential dread.
 
One thing to note is that the sea and space aren't simply often used because writers are hacks but also because there aren't a lot of unexplored frontiers left. And the genre relies on being on the edge of knowledge.

Sure you could be working at the edge of mathematics, art, or psychology as well but often those are harder sells. The genre tends high concept to begin with, before you start relying on the mind numbing terror of an obtuse mathematical theorem. :V
 
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It's even implied that the Great Ones are like us and just as sad and insignificant on the greater scale. In cosmic horror even the horrors can be faced with the same existential dread.

This was something I noticed in Bloodborne as well. All the Great Ones can be killed, each of them can experience the pain of losing their child, and some Great Ones can even be surrogate parents.
 
This was something I noticed in Bloodborne as well. All the Great Ones can be killed, each of them can experience the pain of losing their child, and some Great Ones can even be surrogate parents.

It's worse then that. Great ones inherently MUST lose their children and long for a surrogate. Any children they have are either stillborn or cause the parent to die. There's even implications that most of them were genuinely trying to help but failed because they are so unlike humans.

The Great Ones pay for their power in a way few eldritch horrors are shown to and that's one of the more interesting bits. The horror wouldn't stop if you became a Great One, it'd merely change.
 
However, I'd say that the aesthetics of the genre are important too, and I'm just tired of seeing tentacle monsters being the representative eldritch abomination of many cosmic horror works.
Eldritch must be barely comprehensible, but also scary. The problem is we kinda depleted our classical sources of visual scaryness. Does the OP needs visuals in any case?

The usual scary things are darkness, pointy things, eyes, big mouths, pustules, necrotic tissue, slimy tissue, etc. Tentacles are versatille things, they can have pointy things, mouths, be slimy and come from the darkness. I guess a fractally-feathered hand with 15 ankles just doesn't have the same effect...

Here's some sound I found a bit eldritch (and blueballing, funnily enough):


And here's a location whose mundane capabilities still make me shudder, I don't know why. It's a visceral thing.

Oh, and things that eat things alive. Those also produce shudders on some people.
 
I had a lot of stuff come up and couldn't respond, sorry, but i'm glad some good discussion came up of this. In my own setting, It's changed over the course of a few months. As it stands, my "Eldritch Horror" is less on the horror side itself and more on the "hard to comprehend" side. Everything that happened of importance in my setting stems from the actions of one such being, an equivalent to Great Cthulhu waking up. While this doesn't completely destroy all mankind, it greatly influences everything that happens after that fact. It, among other things, allows:
- Beings of higher and lower dimensions to interact with each other (4d being intersecting into 3d space, and anywhere from 1D to who-knows-how-high-D;
- Beings from other realities also interacting with ours (alternate realities, different realms, dreaming world, etc,
- the founding of what I call mana (has many other names ic), a liquid resource like oil that is eventually used in the creation of steam/dieselpunk magitech machines and technology. Among other things it has weird affects on the mind and can "mutate" things living or not into different stuff (a person near the sludge left over from refined mana for too long may become something horrific, and the container may shift and go all non-euclidean) and other such weird effects.
-And the edge of all this, people more or less "know" this is what happened. The details are blurry, few remember exactly what happened, but there are theories, and people know beings like this exist in some form. They wander around, they do different things, and corporations exist ala the SCP foundation inspired group to combat or contain such things.

After reading all that, yeah it is a far departure, even with me leaving out a lot of details due to time restraint and post length. There are still plenty of things that draw reference to Lovecrafts stuff, but even I know the overall horror of the thing is diminished when shown through this view. But I like taking the base ideas and changing them, adapting them. Its an interesting job, for sure.
 
I pretty much agree with your analysis of cosmic horror.

However, I'd say that the aesthetics of the genre are important too, and I'm just tired of seeing tentacle monsters being the representative eldritch abomination of many cosmic horror works.
You can always take inspiration from microscopic creatures for inspiration for new designs.


 
Far departure? You are closer than most tentacle-faced giants so-called eldritch. Entities that cannot be comprehended, people trying to live with such reality hovering on their heads, even the goo thing isn't that off.
Sure, but the departure comes from the fact that more or less, these beings are known. Only a few people could even start to combat them, but it is possible for some, and all of humanity isn't super insane (probably) from knowing they are around.
 
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