Dragon Ball: After the End
[X] Cruel and Kind
-[X] Physical: Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Mental: Force understanding on Dazarel - understanding of value of life and connection to others.
-[X] Seal him in human body, with all human shortcomings and limitats - but also with all human capability to feel. (ask sorcerers to do it if needed)
--[X] Let adults judge him.
We cannot let him free - but we also cannot crush dragon's spirit by violence. It is not how it works - he sees himself as the end personified, fully capable of any amount of violence and cruelty.
Instead, let him understand. There are 'things that cannot be unseen' - but it does not always goes in direction of horror. Consider Dazarel. A dragon. Solitary being, cruel and prideful, thinking nothing of others, not valuing life in the slightest, certain in his power and domination.
Let's show him other point of view.
Let's show him how precious each life is. The value of each blade of grass and each squirrel.
Let's show him how pointless pride and rage it in face of simply happiness of life.
Let's show him friendship, a connection to others and how it can make life brighter and better.
Let's show him laugh, joy and how simple, little things can be so important to person.
Let's show him love and tenderness and let him feel it for the very first time in his life.
Let's show him how much unity can achieve, and how that unity, that understanding grinds to dust all his rage and power.
In short, let's show him how human feels. Make him understand it, share all of that with him even if only for a moment. And make him remember it each time he thinks of his goal, of his actions, his rage and pride.
And then seal him in a body that is capable to feel all of those.
It is closest we can come to redeeming the dragon.
...and it very nicely fits both with fundational trait of Kakara, her goals, and state she is in.
-[X] Physical: Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Mental: Force understanding on Dazarel - understanding of value of life and connection to others.
-[X] Seal him in human body, with all human shortcomings and limitats - but also with all human capability to feel. (ask sorcerers to do it if needed)
--[X] Let adults judge him.
We cannot let him free - but we also cannot crush dragon's spirit by violence. It is not how it works - he sees himself as the end personified, fully capable of any amount of violence and cruelty.
Instead, let him understand. There are 'things that cannot be unseen' - but it does not always goes in direction of horror. Consider Dazarel. A dragon. Solitary being, cruel and prideful, thinking nothing of others, not valuing life in the slightest, certain in his power and domination.
Let's show him other point of view.
Let's show him how precious each life is. The value of each blade of grass and each squirrel.
Let's show him how pointless pride and rage it in face of simply happiness of life.
Let's show him friendship, a connection to others and how it can make life brighter and better.
Let's show him laugh, joy and how simple, little things can be so important to person.
Let's show him love and tenderness and let him feel it for the very first time in his life.
Let's show him how much unity can achieve, and how that unity, that understanding grinds to dust all his rage and power.
In short, let's show him how human feels. Make him understand it, share all of that with him even if only for a moment. And make him remember it each time he thinks of his goal, of his actions, his rage and pride.
And then seal him in a body that is capable to feel all of those.
It is closest we can come to redeeming the dragon.
...and it very nicely fits both with fundational trait of Kakara, her goals, and state she is in.
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- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
By that logic, doing anything that might let him kill somebody else would be the same as us killing those people.
We are defeating the enemy, non-lethally, then handing them over to our head of state for judgement. If they then choose to kill it, it's on them.
- Location
- Somewhere
So you're essentially advocating we engage in a mental battle with a psychic while keeping control of the Spirit Saiyan transformation?
Had we not critted our willpower check, I'd call this a recipe for disaster. In this case, I will 'merely' call this a bad idea.
This should be common sense people. Never engage an unknown quantity inside their home field.
Edit: And don't get me started about how we have almost no experience with the mind arts.
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- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
We shonend this so hard.
Let's keep the shonen going. He can be our Vegeta!
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
We shonend this so hard.
Let's keep the shonen going. He can be our Vegeta!
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Yes. It is. But he has not killed anyone yet in our demesne, and if can subdue and seal him or something like that, it would be much more true to Kakara's personality. Furthermore, anything that leads to what she can reasonably assume would be death would, I assume, have heavy vote weighting against it.
KnightDisciple
Brotherhood. Unity. Peace.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
Asking about Sealing without getting nitty-gritty, because that'll give us a wider range of options.
Also, @PoptartProdigy , bravo good sir. I actually almost got misty-eyed reading the update, there was just something about it.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
Asking about Sealing without getting nitty-gritty, because that'll give us a wider range of options.
Also, @PoptartProdigy , bravo good sir. I actually almost got misty-eyed reading the update, there was just something about it.
CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
As a reminder to anyone still considering ending the Dragon?
Here's the realization that Kakara literally just had:
Here's the realization that Kakara literally just had:
(Emphasis mine)
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Thank you for pointing this out.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Except that is not how telepathy works? Telepathy is a one way connection that sends, it requires either the receiver sending a message with telepathy back or using mind delve on them for two way communication. So by sending the memory, we wouldn't actually enter his mind.
The dragon also talks via telepathy so if using telepathy could open us to having our mind crushed, it would already have done so. Our method of communication relies on ki manipulation and ki sensing, not in PSY abilities so using them on him shouldn't make us more vulnerable than not using them.
Speaking of which, I am trying to compile what we know about telepathy.
1- Are telepathy and Mind delve the same skill?
2-Does both parties need to know telepathy to receive a message?
3- How do you eavesdrop telepathy?
4-Can we send memories with telepathy? Is there a risk of other memories being seen when you send them with telepathy?
5- How awesome is telepathy?
6-Can ki sense be used to detect telepathy and how it is done?
7-Are you sure about that? High level fights rely on sensing the ki in the opponent's body to know what they are doing.
8- What is Telepathy, even?
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
So no need to fear the dragon invading our mind via our telepathy attempt.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I mean, if it could invade our mind, our use of telepathy shouldn't make it any easier or harder. We are already using it to talk to it after all.
- Location
- USA
Adding a few approval votes. I don't want "painlessly" being a requirement, mostly because that's quite the limitation we would give ourselves. I'm very much against adding more chance of failure to our certain victory.
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[x]Hold down the dragon. Ask the sorcerers "Can you turn him into dragon balls"
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[x]Hold down the dragon. Ask the sorcerers "Can you turn him into dragon balls"
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
Is it possible to seal him in a human form he will only be able to escape if he learns to appreciate life for its own sake?
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
Is it possible to seal him in a human form he will only be able to escape if he learns to appreciate life for its own sake?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I am absolutely thrilled by the response to this update. Thanks, everybody! 
Now, I've spoilered off most of my responses because goodness there are a lot, but this one I'm keeping out in the open because it's a very good question with a very important answer.
Kakara's objection to the Sealing -- even before she learned that it malfunctioned and placed Jaffur in an alternating state between, "solitary confinement," and, "cage match with grief-maddened twin followed by temporary mind wipe and possible second round depending on how keyed up the two of them are" -- was that it, in her eyes, amounted to the death of Jaffur as a person. What Dandeer characterized as the only practical treatment for her son's mental disorder, Kakara views as an attempt at all but murder. Who Jaffur was, had the Sealing worked as intended, would be gone, and Jaron would be his only replacement.
That is the crux of her objection to the Sealing, and, thus, would not be a problem for her in the majority of the proposed Sealing plans. Kakara believes in ethical imprisonment, but implicit in all these Sealing plans is her resolution to take responsibility for Dazarel's treatment, to an extent (particularly the one that tries to turn her into a jinchuuriki), and thus she would be at liberty to tweak terms and conditions until they satisfied her sense of ethics. Unless somebody votes to Seal Dazarel's mind, Kakara will not object, but the instant somebody does, they get smacked with Protector's vote weighting, because she sees that as murder.
).
Now, I've spoilered off most of my responses because goodness there are a lot, but this one I'm keeping out in the open because it's a very good question with a very important answer.
This is a good question.yeah, lets not jinks ourself here guys.
Oh hey question for the QM:
If we, for some reason, go with the seal in ourself plan what are the odds we risk another crisis of faith as with the pacifist trait for doing to another what jafur's mother did to her son even if the intent was dfferent than the result?
Kakara's objection to the Sealing -- even before she learned that it malfunctioned and placed Jaffur in an alternating state between, "solitary confinement," and, "cage match with grief-maddened twin followed by temporary mind wipe and possible second round depending on how keyed up the two of them are" -- was that it, in her eyes, amounted to the death of Jaffur as a person. What Dandeer characterized as the only practical treatment for her son's mental disorder, Kakara views as an attempt at all but murder. Who Jaffur was, had the Sealing worked as intended, would be gone, and Jaron would be his only replacement.
That is the crux of her objection to the Sealing, and, thus, would not be a problem for her in the majority of the proposed Sealing plans. Kakara believes in ethical imprisonment, but implicit in all these Sealing plans is her resolution to take responsibility for Dazarel's treatment, to an extent (particularly the one that tries to turn her into a jinchuuriki), and thus she would be at liberty to tweak terms and conditions until they satisfied her sense of ethics. Unless somebody votes to Seal Dazarel's mind, Kakara will not object, but the instant somebody does, they get smacked with Protector's vote weighting, because she sees that as murder.
Characterizing what is about to ensue as a, "fight," is vaguely hilarious.
If they vote for them all separately, then only the top result wins. If they vote in a block and that block wins, everything on that block is executed.
Spirit Saiyan won't last forever, of course, nor even for an extremely long period of time, but it's not a, "one update long," matter (if only because, "one update," is not in fact a useful measure of time.
).The original Exiles could reach Namek (although they refrained out of security concerns), but after centuries, they have lost its location and have no handy familiar ki signatures onto which they can lock.
You don't know, but can always ask the sorcerers.
Yeah, really want to take a crack at it.
Way I see, it's [potential power boost]+[hammy conversations/commentary]+[highest level of responsibility]+[Interesting Narrative]-[hammy conversations/commentary]-[attempted possessions]. That last one being a minor concern, so long as we aren't pants-on-head retarded about it.
I just wish we had a better understanding of magic, to see if it's actually plausible or not.
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Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
- Location
- Getting Somewhere
- Pronouns
- She/Hers
Well, with Poptart's update, I'm not nearly as opposed to Sealing as I once was. Heck, it sounds like Kakara and I are in broad agreement, here.
I only want to point out what is probably obvious: if we do decide to Naruto Uzumaki that nonsense, we need to make sure that whatever seals we place upon the dragon only allow him to talk to us when we will it. We'll talk with him some every day, of course - barring important things that otherwise steal away our attention - but Dazrael cannot be allowed to undermine our thoughts and decisions in any way, even by "mild taunting".
There's an argument to be made here, but you're going to have to make it to Kakara herself, not just the rest of us. She has an inherent characterization, and that characterization balks in the form of vote-weighing against attempts to kill.
I only want to point out what is probably obvious: if we do decide to Naruto Uzumaki that nonsense, we need to make sure that whatever seals we place upon the dragon only allow him to talk to us when we will it. We'll talk with him some every day, of course - barring important things that otherwise steal away our attention - but Dazrael cannot be allowed to undermine our thoughts and decisions in any way, even by "mild taunting".
There's an argument to be made here, but you're going to have to make it to Kakara herself, not just the rest of us. She has an inherent characterization, and that characterization balks in the form of vote-weighing against attempts to kill.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
Yeah, no way that could go spectacularly wrong and endanger everyone and everything we love.
I am absolutely thrilled by the response to this update. Thanks, everybody!
Now, I've spoilered off most of my responses because goodness there are a lot, but this one I'm keeping out in the open because it's a very good question with a very important answer.
This is a good question.
Kakara's objection to the Sealing -- even before she learned that it malfunctioned and placed Jaffur in an alternating state between, "solitary confinement," and, "cage match with grief-maddened twin followed by temporary mind wipe and possible second round depending on how keyed up the two of them are" -- was that it, in her eyes, amounted to the death of Jaffur as a person. What Dandeer characterized as the only practical treatment for her son's mental disorder, Kakara views as an attempt at all but murder. Who Jaffur was, had the Sealing worked as intended, would be gone, and Jaron would be his only replacement.
That is the crux of her objection to the Sealing, and, thus, would not be a problem for her in the majority of the proposed Sealing plans. Kakara believes in ethical imprisonment, but implicit in all these Sealing plans is her resolution to take responsibility for Dazarel's treatment, to an extent (particularly the one that tries to turn her into a jinchuuriki), and thus she would be at liberty to tweak terms and conditions until they satisfied her sense of ethics. Unless somebody votes to Seal Dazarel's mind, Kakara will not object, but the instant somebody does, they get smacked with Protector's vote weighting, because she sees that as murder.
That's a relief, if we risked losing our will power bonus due to a bad vote it would have been a disaster, plus having kakara that unsure of herself and in her beliefs again so soon would be painful to witness so soon.
Edit still don't like the juwathever (Couldn't it have been a word easier to remember than that? Damn naruto and the japanese language
) plan for ethical reason, but at least I can stomach it if it ever come to pass.
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