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Dragon Ball: After the End

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I actually lol when he said he had a confession to make. That was unexpected.

That said, while he did confess to arranging this to happen, he said nothing about still being a Peat. So he still has something hiding.

Now, I am of the opinion that forgiveness is supposed to be gifted, however, I think this warrants an exception. I don't know if we should forgive him but regardless he needs a penitence, both to somehow keep the respect we gained from Vegetans and to get some time to win him over.
 
Would that trait we are on the verge of getting happen to be something like "The Little Lady" referring to our future position as Lady of House Goku?

Celeran himself... Wrong actions for the Right reasons, and we blew up those plans before they truly created any trouble. Him... I think we should forgive him, with a punishment tacked on because he did try to usurp control of these people.

House Peat on the other hand... We really can't let that go. Celeran I feel was trying to help, really and truly. His House head on the other hand... he might have been trying to help as well, but their past does not put the bias in their favor there. That is something that might have to be handled quietly and with dad's help though.

This is messy cause we have the Faith side and the Secular side, with the latter having tried to use the former. We can pull this apart though, here we need to handle the Faith, later we need to handle the Secular side, with help of course. As we said here, we are not The Lady Goku, not yet.

Reading that again... He may be trying to protect his house, genuinely wanting to protect them I mean. I'm not sure if we want to tip that hand or not, if only to him, though.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
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The current write-in, I feel, is missing the point. He is apologizing because in his arrogance, he tried to advance himself in a position close to that of our Lords. It is not the place of the Faith to accept his apologise for that but OURS. What he should be apologising to the faith about is manipulating them and preying on their fears and to us from trying in the first place. As Scion, we should also remember that we speak on behalf of the saiyan race. Throwing it to the faith to accept it or not, is going back to us not leading or mediating them which goes counter to what we said.

He also needs a punishment for us to gain more respect from clan Vegeta but it does not need to be cruel. I will take some time to further examine my reasoning but I am inclined to not accepting his apology and giving both a token punishment and some task or condition to earn it. Also, if you feel that he should make amends to the faith, telling him that besides that, he needs to make amend with the people of the faith for taking advantage of their time of need (instead of trying to take power, which is what he is rightly choosing us to be the one he asks for forgiveness). Also, some reminder that as a priest, his duty is to serve all saiyans.

This way, we show we are not entirely lenient as pasts Gokuns to the Vegetans, show mercy and diminish his influence by not accepting his apology, plus we get his help as he tries to make amends. The issue is that we need to give a punishment severe enough to satisfy our people and that is within our legal authority to give without stepping on dad's toes. I am inclined to ask him to prove how sorry he is and imply without saying that it would be best if he resigned as high priest to become a normal one, while also keeping him close where we can watch him.
 
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.

We seek unity. Those who turn back can always be forgiven.
Whether he's earnest doesn't matter so much as what the crowd sees.
They want Hope
Bakkasama said:
I actually lol when he said he had a confession to make. That was unexpected.

That said, while he did confess to arranging this to happen, he said nothing about still being a Peat. So he still has something hiding.

Now, I am of the opinion that forgiveness is supposed to be gifted, however, I think this warrants an exception. I don't know if we should forgive him but regardless he needs a penitence, both to somehow keep the respect we gained from Vegetans and to get some time to win him over.
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He also cunningly blocked off further accusations that way, since he already confessed first. Further protest would just make it look like we're taking advantage and squeezing extra
 
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[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
-[X] Also whisper to him that we need to talk about house matters, with emphasis on house.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
 
Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

Is there a House Son or House Briefs?
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You would think so, wouldn't you? And at one point, there was.

Crazy, how those dynastic trees tend to wither away when nobody is watching particularly closely. :( In this case, both families went extinct during the Dark Age through simple poor management of marriages, which happens all the time and is considered non-problematic in the modern world, but was a big problem for dynasties in the feudal/semi-feudal kind of society the Exiles have.

Thanks for all the kind words about the update, everybody. :D
 
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
--[x] Mercy has a redemptive quality, and Celeran is certainly no worse than Vegeta or Piccolo.

I want Kakara to be an advocate for mercy, and here's a chance.

PoptartProdigy said:
In this case, both families went extinct during the Dark Age through simple poor management of marriages, which happens all the time and is considered non-problematic in the modern world, but was a big problem for dynasties in the feudal/semi-feudal kind of society the Exiles have.
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Huh. I had half expected them to have been taken out by Garla's consolidation.
 
..More questions.

@PoptartProdigy, what are the most famous revolts/famous rebels/revolutionaries? Are there any famous non-Super Saiyan rebels/revolts/revolutionaries?

Other than Oni Goku or rebels, are there any famous post-Exile historical figures who are normally seen as villains?
 
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Call attention to how Goku handled things (something with the same intent as :"With Yamcha, Piccolo and then Vegeta of old, Goku always accepted those who truly changed. I can do no different")
Calling attention to how Goku would do things is hopefully another good thing to do with the Faith, and would probably cement his loyally further.

I want to accept his apology, for the reasons above. But I don't write well enough for a proper write in, so i hope the intent suffices.
 
There is a time and a place for mercy. As a Scion, we must know when to give mercy and when to give justice. As I explained before, his apology is right being directed to us unlike what some are proposing and there is the political situation to consider. We want to improve saiyan society and make it more akin to our beliefs for which we need political clout. Vegetans look down on Gokun Lords for giving so many chances to House Peat and refusing punishing him would look like we continue that trend, which I don't like considering we made a show of authority in order to present ourselves to them as a valid leader. Furthermore, while I think Celeran is honest in his apology, he is still protecting the Head of Peat and I don't take kindly to his machinations. While killing Celeran goes against Kakara's belief's (which is reason enough to spare him) it would also both destroy a link we can follow in our investigations and lead away Fennella so a harsh punishment would not be the best choice. On the other hand, outright forgiving him or claiming he has no reason to ask US for it would weaken our position and tossing the matter back to the faith goes against what we just told them. THIS is our first act as mediator and posible leader figure and how we manage it will reflect on how we will opérate. As such, we don't want to be too harsh but neither too lenient.

We want to make a better saiyan society. Forgiving is ok but to do so without thinking of the concecuences is the same as not adressing problems and hope someone else solves them.

[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.


Harsh line to appease the Vegetans but follows the whole forgiving thing the Gokuns have for them; acknowledges his fuckup regarding the faith but it doesn't pass the buck which would make us look uncomitting to the whole taking responsability thing. It also kicks the whole punishing thing ahead to when we actually have legal authority to decide his punishment and makes him toe around carefully so that he doesn't anger us while leaving us the choice to forgive him, with his actions to earn it being a good excuse to do so without losing face. It gives the chance of gaining him as an ally y giving him mercy and it doesn't leave his political strenght intact as just forgiving him might do, which will prevent him from getting ideas. It also sets a precedent of members of the faith swearing their life to helping others as a method to repent, which is a step in the direction we want our society to take; heck, if we decide to go ahead and cementing the faith as a power base we could even make it a proper religious order.

And we shall call it the Holy Saiyaman Order *cue a hundred or so saiyans in costume going through the Galaxy righting wrongs once we go spacefaring again*
 
I likes that.

[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
 
You know, something just occurred to me that has nothing to do with the current vote.

I was thinking on how busy next year will be and how we might have to look for easy training choices to stop our skills from atrophying and one thing led to the other... which brought up something that now that I am writing it, sounds like a dumb question but here it goes:

For all that he was an extremely powerful fighter, I tend to be less than impressed with Gohan's skills where fighting is concerned. So, with over two hundred years of people working on it, a lot of them probably a lot more inclined to fighting than the original user... is Gohan even a Master of Gohan style fighting? I mean, one would think so but with people improving on it over time and him too busy being a god and a teacher before that, it might be posible that he was left behind and it is the kind of ridiculousness I would expect from Toriyama's work anyways.
 
Bommelom said:
..More questions.

@PoptartProdigy, what are the most famous revolts/famous rebels/revolutionaries? Are there any famous non-Super Saiyan rebels/revolts/revolutionaries?

Other than Oni Goku or rebels, are there any famous post-Exile historical figures who are normally seen as villains?
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Click to shrink...

The Peat Rebellion was the biggest, but there was a post a ways back that mentioned a similar revolt put down by a cunning warrior named Endivan that will be making its way onto the Lore Screen once it stops kicking my ass. Other than that, no non-SSJ revolts. I mean, talk about futility.

The ones who opposed Lady Garla are generally reviled, and there were some Super Saiyans among them, but the secret of FPSSJ had shrunk to the point that she was the only one by then, so nobody stood a chance against her. The Last Head Talt -- Toma -- however, is unquestionably viewed as villainous, given that his revolt was an undisguised coup.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
The Peat Rebellion was the biggest, but there was a post a ways back that mentioned a similar revolt put down by a cunning warrior named Endivan that will be making its way onto the Lore Screen once it stops kicking my ass. Other than that, no non-SSJ revolts. I mean, talk about futility.
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No famous rebels going Oozaru and/or Kaioken times 20 (or higher), then?
 
@PoptartProdigy

Do we have access to the Mafuba? It seems like something that's right up Kakara's alley, and gives us a last-ditch non-lethal option to use in battle.
 
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