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Deep Red (Avatar: The Last Airbender)

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Gh055twr1t3r said:
Most of those are conditional though? Sozen didn't beat Roku, he left him to die when they were saving a local village from a volcano eruption and Roku was old.

Kuvira beat Korra sometime after she had recovered from the metal poison. Then Korra went into the Avatar state and beat her handily.

Azula's was a sneak attack and Amon would have lost handily to Aang if we're being honest here.
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Shhhh. Shhhhhhhhhshshshhhh.
Shush.
I'm trying to be ironically wrong here.

Well, it's hard to beat someone who can wield four elements simultaneously and is supported by the Spirit of Light, the closest thing to a chief deity the Avatar World has. So I would guess it's a race against time: beat him before he masters four elements and learns how to enter the Avatar state at will.

People trying to become stronger than Aang while I'm hoping she'd manage to get stronger than her insane dad. Eh.

Antix_Shadows said:
The avatar doesn't have a stake in this. if he attacks us it's an offensive action. I would allow him to live his life however he likes as long as he doesn't get involved in the war.
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Alright hold the fuck on here sweet cheeks

The Fire Nation genocided his entire people
Or course he has a stake here
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
The avatar doesn't have a stake in this. if he attacks us it's an offensive action. I would allow him to live his life however he likes as long as he doesn't get involved in the war.
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I'm sorry are you arguing that Aang, the last airbender and current avatar has no beef with the Fire Nation? The same Fire Nation that committed genocide on his people? The same Fire Nation that murdered every single Waterbender in the Southern Tribe except for one young girl? The same Fire Nation that has engaged in a 100 year war against the entirety of the world? The same Fire Nation that will almost certainly hunt him down the moment they hear he's alive, because we aren't in charge right now by the way.

Are you really arguing this?
 
Vaermina said:
That's... Yea...

Subverting him is quite literally impossible due to Sozen wiping out the Air Nomads. And killing him, well, the world is quite literally working to make sure he succeeds. Even assuming Akane somehow succeeded in killing the Avatar however, Sozin got his entire line cursed with insanity doing it the first time. So I shudder to think what would happen to Akane if she actually repeated Sozin's mistake. (Best case would probably be getting tossed into the Fog of Lost souls...)
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So we should just give up and stop the quest here, right? Because nothing we do will matter, Aang will win anyway, the Avatar will just beat the firenation and the only way to not die and get our country destroyed is to play nice with him because he's almighty. Because that sounds like fun.
 
Ulrad said:
So we should just give up and stop the quest here, right? Because nothing we do will matter, Aang will win anyway, the Avatar will just beat the firenation and the only way to not die and get our country destroyed is to play nice with him because he's almighty. Because that sounds like fun.
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No, it's possible to win against Aang, you just probably won't like the results is what we're trying to say here.
 
Ulrad said:
So we should just give up and stop the quest here, right? Because nothing we do will matter, Aang will win anyway, the Avatar will just beat the firenation and the only way to not die and get our country destroyed is to play nice with him because he's almighty. Because that sounds like fun.
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We're saying that conquering the entire world is unrealistic if not extremely difficult and that doing so will either break Akane or turn her into a monster. Now I don't have a problem if you want to do that since this is quest. My issue is that people are assuming that conquering the world will be easy or that it won't have very serious and very fucked up consequences.

Like, we can end this in the Fire Nation's favour without conquering the world. Besides, the quest isn't about conquering the world. The quest is about Akane.
 
Raiseth said:
No, it's possible to win against Aang, you just probably won't like the results is what we're trying to say here.
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"Subverting him is impossible and the world is literally ensuring he wins" does not sound like it. The point that is hammered in throughout the show and continues to be hammered in with the comics is that the Avatar is human, Aang is still a kid, he's FAR from infallible and honestly, he just wants peace. To act like he's some invincible, insurmountable obstacle is exaggeration.
Gh055twr1t3r said:
My issue is that people are assuming that conquering the world will be easy or that it won't have very serious and very fucked up consequences.
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And this, I have issue with because I keep seeing it brought up and for the life of me I don't understand why. NOBODY is saying it will be easy, NOBODY is saying it won't have a cost and NOBODY is pretending there is some perfect happy ending where everybody just drops everything, starts holding hands and sings Kumbaya while Firenation tanks roll through the streets. We get it.
 
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Ulrad said:
"Subverting him is impossible and the world is literally ensuring he wins" does not sound like it. The point that is hammered in throughout the show and continues to be hammered in with the comics is that the Avatar is human, Aang is still a kid, he's FAR from infallible and honestly, he just wants peace. To act like he's some invincible, insurmountable obstacle is exaggeration.
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But I'm not? He's perfectly defeatable and killable, just
You know what, you're not actually reading what I'm typing so why do I bother

Good night to you all, later.
 
He is also a demigod. Basically we have around a year after canon hits until Aang masters the elements and the Avatar State. When that happen, Aang will become the most powerful thing on the planet, capable of single-handedly defeating the Fire Nation.

He is not infalible nor immortal, but in terms of power his potential is unmatched. If you want to deal with Aang, stop thinking in terms of power because that is a losing approach.
 
Ulrad said:
So we should just give up and stop the quest here, right? Because nothing we do will matter, Aang will win anyway, the Avatar will just beat the firenation and the only way to not die and get our country destroyed is to play nice with him because he's almighty. Because that sounds like fun.
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You can't have your cake and eat it too.

While the story might have started out completely open, the choices made since then have continually narrowed down the available options if she wants to avoid a repeat of what happened to Azula.



Antix_Shadows said:
I've never assumed that conquering the world would be easy. But we can do it without becoming a monster.
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You might want to think about the realities of actually conquering the world...

Especially the reality of conquering the Norther Water Tribe given their ability to just retreat to an area of the planet where Firebending just won't work for half the year due to the sun being out of the picture for that period of time.
 
Antix_Shadows said:
I've never assumed that conquering the world would be easy. But we can do it without becoming a monster.
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I mean, that depends on your definition of monster. I think that spear-heading a nation that instigated and has continued to engage in a 100-year war to be something a monster would do. Conquering the world requires a lot of dead bodies. It's going to require more dead bodies because the people you're conquering aren't going to like the fact you conquered them.
 
Combatants are different than civilians. [In quest] I don't consider it monstrous to put down enemy combatants. (obviously I don't support invading soverign nations and killing a shit ton of people to be anything other than atrocious IRL.)
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
Combatants are different than civilians. [In quest] I don't consider it monstrous to put down enemy combatants.
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Given the 100 years of war and the attempted genocide, I think it's pretty naive to suggest that Earth Kingdom/Water Tribe civilians won't become "combatants" to try and stop their cultures from being annihilated.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Given the 100 years of war and the attempted genocide, I think it's pretty naive to suggest that Earth Kingdom/Water Tribe civilians won't become "combatants" to try and stop their cultures from being annihilated.
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And that's their decision to make. They are choosing to be soldiers. If you live by the sword, expect to die by the sword.


Edit: I'm not saying they are in the wrong for defending their nation or culture. Just don't expect mercy if you're wielding lethal force.
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
And that's their decision to make. They are choosing to be soldiers. If you live by the sword, expect to die by the sword.


Edit: I'm not saying they are in the wrong for defending their nation or culture. Just don't expect mercy if you're wielding lethal force.
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Yeah, okay, whatever.

Keep ramming your heads into walls and acting surprised when kosm doesn't engage with your desires for a consequence-free LARP as a fascist dictator, I guess?
 
Vaermina said:
How exactly were the Air Nomads, a group of pacifists by the way, combatants?
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They weren't and it was lamentable what happened to them and the water tribe.
Redshirt Army said:
Oh, so you do acknowledge the costs of this course of action on both Akane's psyche and in terms of overall lives lost and human suffering, you just advance it anyway?

I'm not sure that's better, dude. :V
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I do however know that neither of us know exactly what the costs on akane this is going to have. And it's never correct to make assumptions.
 
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Antix_Shadows said:
And that's their decision to make. They are choosing to be soldiers. If you live by the sword, expect to die by the sword.


Edit: I'm not saying they are in the wrong for defending their nation or culture. Just don't expect mercy if you're wielding lethal force.
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Except they wouldn't need to become soldiers to fight if we hadn't decided to kill their loved ones and destroy their culture? Like, none of what we're doing is ethical and justifying killing the enemy is pointless since we're the aggressors here.
 
Gh055twr1t3r said:
Except they wouldn't need to become soldiers to fight if we hadn't decided to kill their loved ones and destroy their culture? Like, none of what we're doing is ethical and justifying killing the enemy is pointless since we're the aggressors here.
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I'm not bringing my real world ethics into this, and neither should you. Sacrifices have to be made to unify the world. some things i'm unwilling to sacrifice and others i am willing.
 
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