Uber, for the most part, you make good points. However, I must disagree very vehemently regarding your opinion of gaining further IC levels.
Tell me, do you think, if we fight in an army, that the enemy soldiers are going to be nice enough to let us be healed after every attack? That they'll gladly let our allies support us? That they won't, in fact, be trying their hardest to reduce us to bloody smears on the ground?
Because they are.
They are going to try to kill us. They are going to try to kill our teammates. They will try to take away every advantage we have, just to make killing us easier.
Gaining levels in IC is not a waste. It 's a method of ensuring our survival. Every level increases our health, which increases the amount of health Segarite Core restores. Every level increases our Resilience, which increases the amount of damage an attack or spell has to do in order to actually hurt us. Because they will. They will bringing their best and brightest, and as it was painfully demonstrated just this update, our defenses are not enough to protect us yet.
That is why my plan has us leveling IC. Because it helps us survive. Because it makes us tougher. Because every level means we're that much closer to actually being able to stand amongst the truly high-class fighters and hold our own.
We already know that IC is the best single defensive ability we're going to get. If an attack is under 99% of our current Health, it will block it. Everything else gets reduced by 99%, and we get a single free save from death per turn that very few things can bypass. However, if we actually fought someone who is both capable of both fighting in the same leagues we are, and penetrating our defenses, do you honestly think we'll be able to survive without outside interview? Because I do not. We need more level of IC.
I think the deciding factor between IC and Segarite Core is whether the Damage reduction from IC will go up with the increase in HP from Segarite Core. Even if it doesn't, there aren't many opponents that can deal more than 75% of Nepgear's HP per turn, considering how many defenses we have and if they deal less than that then we're still gaining HP without stopping. Even the massively boosted Interception from the Demon King only managed to take off less than a third of our maximum HP. Segarite Core is still worth investing in.
Um... I'm not sure about the upgrade plan, but doesn't the enemy magical girl get a multiple of the first number of our buffs as a damage buff of her own?
So couldn't this lesser gods thing really fuck us over? If it raised the damage buff to like 900, resulting in an x9 bonus for the enemy?
I think the deciding factor between IC and Segarite Core is whether the Damage reduction from IC will go up with the increase in HP from Segarite Core. Even if it doesn't, there aren't many opponents that can deal more than 75% of Nepgear's HP per turn, considering how many defenses we have and if they deal less than that then we're still gaining HP without stopping. Even the massively boosted Interception from the Demon King only managed to take off less than a third of our maximum HP. Segarite Core is still worth investing in.
Over know that. I just think that completely ignoring our ability that determines our health and resilience just because we get a health-restoration ability is, in fact, mind-bogglingly stupid.
Um... I'm not sure about the upgrade plan, but doesn't the enemy magical girl get a multiple of the first number of our buffs as a damage buff of her own?
So couldn't this lesser gods thing really fuck us over? If it raised the damage buff to like 900, resulting in an x9 bonus for the enemy?
When she's attacking us, she gets a multiple of our Existence Bonus, making her deal 5x normal damage. That is not something that will change, because it's a result of our Divinity affinity.
It also doesn't apply when nuking her with Spells, because she can't counterattack against them.
Um... I'm not sure about the upgrade plan, but doesn't the enemy magical girl get a multiple of the first number of our buffs as a damage buff of her own?
So couldn't this lesser gods thing really fuck us over? If it raised the damage buff to like 900, resulting in an x9 bonus for the enemy?
Tell me, do you think, if we fight in an army, that the enemy soldiers are going to be nice enough to let us be healed after every attack? That they'll gladly let our allies support us? That they won't, in fact, be trying their hardest to reduce us to bloody smears on the ground?
Show me an army, or even just a single enemy, that can sufficiently damage Nepgear that the extra levels are useful while at the same time not causing enough damage that they don't matter.
Here is a listing of the most damage every character listed on the Allies/Enemies pages can do in a single turn without spells:
Goddess Gold
31,000 per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 93,000 damage
Red Rose
2,000 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 10,000 damage
James Robert
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Michael Rodriguez
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Samael Balier
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Angel Gabriel
37,800 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 113,400 damage
Aquila Riven
3,000 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 6,000 damage
Lucky Star
31,000 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 31,000 damage
Carnage
1,100 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn + 2,000 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 8,200 damage
True Anti-Demon Tank
8,750 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 17,500 damage
White Knight
5,000 damage per attack x 15 attacks per turn = 75,000
Judgement Core
First Turn Damage: 11,165 damage
Fifth Turn Damage: 81,345 damage
Average Damage Per Turn = 46,255
Fairy Battle Mage
5,300 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 5,300
War Angel
2,200 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 4,400
Goddess White
First Turn Damage: 36,000 Damage
Fifth Turn Damage: 216,000 Damage
Average Damage Per Turn = 50,400
Solid Drive
2,325 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 4,650
Judgement Drive
17,798 damage per attack x 4 attacks per turn = 71,192
Archangel Michael
51,450 damage per attack x 15 attacks per turn = 771,750
Hell's Foot Soldiers
630 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 630
Hell's Ground Commanders
320 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 320
Hell Beast
600 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 1,200 damage per attack
Goddess Grey
10,999 damage per attack x infinity = infinity
Goddess Red
5,000 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 25,000
Maiden of the East
10,000 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 20,000
Maiden of the West
1,500 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 7,500
Angel WEAPON
8,750 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 26,250
Hero WEAPON
15,554 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 46,662
Sixth Heaven
21,000 damage per attack x 4 attacks per turn + 12,500 damage per attack x 6 attacks per turn = 159,000
Turns out I was wrong. There is exactly one character who happens to fall into that exact range. Of course it bares noting that of everyone on that list there are a grand total of four who can do more then 100k damage per turn:
Gabriel (113,400)
Archangel Michael (771,750)
Goddess Grey (Infinity shouldn't count)
Sixth Heaven (159,000)
So I stand by my point that we're not in so serious a danger of foes who can hurt Nepgear faster then she can recover, outside those who can instagib her, that we need to drop something like 10% of the XP we have ever earned on improving Nepgear's Health.
They will bringing their best and brightest, and as it was painfully demonstrated just this update, our defenses are not enough to protect us yet.
How so? This update just demonstrated that even an ancient Magical Girl who specializes in killing Divine level girls couldn't kill us or even seriously wound us. The only reason Nepgear isn't killing Sixth Heaven right now is because the GM decided he wanted Nepgear unconscious for this battle.
Hell as it turns out Sixth Heaven, thanks to Supremacy Zone, didn't even hurt Nepgear. It's all down to her hitting her head on impact and being "stunned".
That is why my plan has us leveling IC. Because it helps us survive. Because it makes us tougher. Because every level means we're that much closer to actually being able to stand amongst the truly high-class fighters and hold our own.
While technically leveling IC helps us survive there are so many better ways. For example drop half as much XP into Level 20 Purifier Beam and Nepgear would be almost untouchable with Intercepts. Or wait until the end of next update to see if we unlock anything even better to spend XP on.
Y'know, if there's one good thing about us being smacked into the ground, it's that Sega might find herself wanting to be able to emulate that. Think about it: that same attack would have splattered Sega across the ground, and she probably knows that, but we survived! If nothing else, it might get her on the path to upgrading to her own IC-equivalent.
Show me an army, or even just a single enemy, that can sufficiently damage Nepgear that the extra levels are useful while at the same time not causing enough damage that they don't matter.
Here is a listing of the most damage every character listed on the Allies/Enemies pages can do in a single turn without spells:
Goddess Gold
31,000 per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 93,000 damage
Red Rose
2,000 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 10,000 damage
James Robert
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Michael Rodriguez
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Samael Balier
2,500 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 2,500 damage
Angel Gabriel
37,800 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 113,400 damage
Aquila Riven
3,000 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 6,000 damage
Lucky Star
31,000 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 31,000 damage
Carnage
1,100 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn + 2,000 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 8,200 damage
True Anti-Demon Tank
8,750 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 17,500 damage
White Knight
5,000 damage per attack x 15 attacks per turn = 75,000
Judgement Core
First Turn Damage: 11,165 damage
Fifth Turn Damage: 81,345 damage
Average Damage Per Turn = 46,255
Fairy Battle Mage
5,300 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 5,300
War Angel
2,200 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 4,400
Goddess White
First Turn Damage: 36,000 Damage
Fifth Turn Damage: 216,000 Damage
Average Damage Per Turn = 50,400
Solid Drive
2,325 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 4,650
Judgement Drive
17,798 damage per attack x 4 attacks per turn = 71,192
Archangel Michael
51,450 damage per attack x 15 attacks per turn = 771,750
Hell's Foot Soldiers
630 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 630
Hell's Ground Commanders
320 damage per attack x 1 attack per turn = 320
Hell Beast
600 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 1,200 damage per attack
Goddess Grey
10,999 damage per attack x infinity = infinity
Goddess Red
5,000 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 25,000
Maiden of the East
10,000 damage per attack x 2 attacks per turn = 20,000
Maiden of the West
1,500 damage per attack x 5 attacks per turn = 7,500
Angel WEAPON
8,750 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 26,250
Hero WEAPON
15,554 damage per attack x 3 attacks per turn = 46,662
Sixth Heaven
21,000 damage per attack x 4 attacks per turn + 12,500 damage per attack x 6 attacks per turn = 159,000
Turns out I was wrong. There is exactly one character who happens to fall into that exact range. Of course it bares noting that of everyone on that list there are a grand total of four who can do more then 100k damage per turn:
Gabriel (113,400)
Archangel Michael (771,750)
Goddess Grey (Infinity shouldn't count)
Sixth Heaven (159,000)
So I stand by my point that we're not in so serious a danger of foes who can hurt Nepgear faster then she can recover, outside those who can instagib her, that we need to drop something like 10% of the XP we have ever earned on improving Nepgear's Health.
How so? This update just demonstrated that even an ancient Magical Girl who specializes in killing Divine level girls couldn't kill us or even seriously wound us. The only reason Nepgear isn't killing Sixth Heaven right now is because the GM decided he wanted Nepgear unconscious for this battle.
Hell as it turns out Sixth Heaven, thanks to Supremacy Zone, didn't even hurt Nepgear. It's all down to her hitting her head on impact and being "stunned".
While technically leveling IC helps us survive there are so many better ways. For example drop half as much XP into Level 20 Purifier Beam and Nepgear would be almost untouchable with Intercepts. Or wait until the end of next update to see if we unlock anything even better to spend XP on.
Alright since you keep going on about how Segarite Core makes it so we don't need to increase IC's level, how about this: Segarite Core increases our health by 75% of our maximum Health. At the moment, that's 2,250. Increasing IC to 20 increases our health to 5,000, which in turn increases the amount of health Segarite Cores regenerates to 3,750, which has a difference of 1,500 health. I'd say that regenerating 1,500 more health every turn is very useful, wouldn't you?
In addition, let's look at my previous post. Assuming Sega's IC-equivalent works the same way as ours, she'll get level 50 INDESTRUCTIBLE FRAME, at the absolute least. That gives her a Health rating of...I think 11,000, and a Base Resilience of 5,100. She'd be able to ignore anything less than 10,980, and that's after her resilience took a chunk out of an incoming attack. Getting Solid Core to that level would definitely help, don't you think?
Y'know, if there's one good thing about us being smacked into the ground, it's that Sega might find herself wanting to be able to emulate that. Think about it: that same attack would have splattered Sega across the ground, and she probably knows that, but we survived! If nothing else, it might get her on the path to upgrading to her own IC-equivalent.
Yeah, we've been previously told that she has access an Indestructible Core equivalent, but she doesn't know about it.
Also, nobody wants to comment on my theory that there's a NO LONGER MORTAL super ability which has No Longer Human, Echo of Peace, and Lesser Gods as prereqs, and has one of its effects be apotheosis?
I'm also guessing that there's also a super ability which combines Fractal Synchronization, Calamity Circuit, and an unknown ability (probably one which adds Spell Boost to the Purifier Beam).
A super ability which combines Purifier Beam: Extension, The Insurmountable Gap, and an unknown ability sounds fun, but probably doesn't exist.
Yes, I know, I'm just hoping seeing us not be instantly killed will make her start wondering how we survived that, and if she could pull that same trick off.
Yes, I know, I'm just hoping seeing us not be instantly killed will make her start wondering how we survived that, and if she could pull that same trick off.
An attack that even without Supremacy Zone, we still would have survived. Yes, OOC-wise we know why she survived. As far as Sega and Solid Core know, though? Her surviving that attack could very well be what drives home the fact that Solid Core is much tougher than her sister.
An attack that even without Supremacy Zone, we still would have survived. Yes, OOC-wise we know why she survived. As far as Sega and Solid Core know, though? Her surviving that attack could very well be what drives home the fact that Solid Color is much tougher than her sister.
Yeah, but IC, nobody knows that Supremacy Zone is a thing, which makes it look to Sega like Indestructible Core alone made us take 0 damage from that, which is almost sure to cause a reaction of "I WANT TO DO THAT TOO!"
Any particular reason for jumping all the way to 20, instead of going to 15 and then going higher later?
I want to start maintaining a stockpile of XP, because I have a very strong feeling that a bunch of things will unlock once Nepgear actually tries using Synchronize. Our lack of any weapons or spells which use our Faith affinity is extremely suspect, as is the fact that we still only have two spells.
Because since everyone seems to think a 1,000 health, 500 defense, and 750 extra Heal regenerated by IC is useless, I'm hoping an extra 2,000 health, 1,000 defense, and 1,500 extra health regenerated by Segarite Core will convince them.
Any particular reason for jumping all the way to 20, instead of going to 15 and then going higher later?
I want to start maintaining a stockpile of XP, because I have a very strong feeling that a bunch of things will unlock once Nepgear actually tries using Synchronize. Our lack of any weapons or spells which use our Faith affinity is extremely suspect, as is the fact that we still only have two spells.
To be fair we more then likely have more spells waiting to be learned, but we have to train to learn them, and we've been training every time just so we can keep our rapidly growing power under control. Once we have our power under control, which should be very soon since Purifier Beam is the only thing we are having Problem's with, we should have a new spell or two to look forwards to.
Because since everyone seems to think a 1,000 health, 500 defense, and 750 extra Heal regenerated by IC is useless, I'm hoping an extra 2,000 health, 1,000 defense, and 1,500 extra health regenerated by Segarite Core will convince them.
I don't see people saying that it's useless, more that it's overkill until everything else is high level.
The thing about IC is that the benefits of each individual level aren't as significant at higher levels compared to our other upgrades. This result should be expected, because IC is unique among our level-based things in that it's biggest effect isn't tied to its level.
Consider this. For most of our stuff, linearly increasing XP costs correspond to exponentially increasing power, but for IC, linearly increasing XP costs only lead to linearly increasing power (Health and Resilience increase by the same amount every level, instead of getting their old value multiplied by a number). Yes it's our best defensive ability, but our other abilities scale quicker.
