Day 24 Chapter 10
[X] Plan Kaiju



Tomoe-san's living room is awfully cramped, thanks to the intrusion of Caster's many person decorations, but your living room is perfectly sized to contain all five of you, plus Archer and McRemitz-san, as well as the unconscious Father Despair draped across one of your couches. You can sense the presence of three other servants, but for whatever reason they are keeping their distance. Most every one of your allies have their eyes fixed on McRemitz-san's missing limb, with expressions ranging from concern from Tomoe-san, to sympathy from Kure Kirika. And for each pair of eyes, McRemitz-san returns fire with a harsh stare and a repetition of "I'm fine. Really."

"And, you say a familiar did this, Akemi-san?" Tomoe-san asks, trying to look at anything but McRemitz-san's missing arm. "How? I've encountered particularly aggressive familiars before, but none that I haven't been able to defeat before. I was under the impression that McRemitz-san was more experienced than any of us, so-" Tomoe-san's eyes eventually settles on McRemitz-san's, and there they stay as she asks "-How did this happen? Was it a simple error in judgement, or are they really that strong that they can do this to an experienced veteran?"

You shake your head, and McRemitz-san joins you in saying "It wasn't an error in judgement; they really are that strong. Or rather, it might be more accurate to say that they were impossible to fight against."

"How so?"

"Nothing that any of us did to them - Akemi, Archer, or myself - was able to harm or deter them. Akemi tried to freeze them, but it was as if the ice never touched them. I tried to punch one, and it reformed its body around my fist without ever slowing down."

"And not just McRemitz-san's arm, either. I saw them bite through Archer's Projected weapons as though they were made of soft ice cream. The one that took McRemitz-san's arm did so just by passing through her with its mouth open. Nothing the three of us had could touch them, but just their touch alone was enough to destroy anything their jaws came into contact with."

"So basically, the witch found a way to turn on noclip, but in real life?" asks Kure Kirika, as she leans in from her perch atop Mikuni Oriko's lap. "Because if that's the case, then that's really, really cheap." Kyouko nods, taking a bite out of her candy bar as she kicks her feet against your couch.

"Bet ya a thousand Rider could still beat'em, though." Another bite extinguishes the life of Kyouko's candy bar, and she stuffs the wrapper into the pocket of her shorts. "See, he's got this crazy busted ability where he flat-out can't be harmed. So I figure, we pit him against sumthing else that can't be harmed, and he'll have the upper hand on account of actually knowing how ta fight, an' not just being flesh robots fer a witch. Right?"

You hadn't known that about Rider; you hardly know anything about Rider, now that you think about it. You know who he is, thanks to Archer keeping you informed, but outside of that you hardly know a thing about him, as either a warrior or a person. "Perhaps, but theory often goes out the window when faced with reality. We don't know what it is that allows these familiars to use their selective intangibility the way that they do. For all we know, they may have a way of harming even Rider." You turn your head towards Mikuni Oriko, and then to the servant presence you feel standing nearest to Tomoe-san. "Well? Can either of you see if sending Rider into battle against these familiars will be successful?"

"Rider's clothes and weaponry are not invulnerable," Caster says, appearing beside his master in a flash of gold. "If he stands against them as a proud athlete of his people, it will be a stalemate at best, with neither side having the means to harm one another. But to defeat the serpents, wholly and completely, will not be possible until the Black Mountain itself is fallen." Caster shakes his head, adding "Perhaps I could have been clearer from the start, but in truth I had not known that the witches my master and her allies fight look as I saw of the Black Mountain."

"Not all witches, just this one, apparently. I've never known any two witches to appear identical," Tomoe-san says to her servant. "And with everything else that's popping up in this city, I'm not sure we could have said it was a witch, not without knowing what we know now."

"What Caster says... It's not entirely true." Mikuni Oriko opens her eyes, to your surprise upon hearing her refute Caster's claim. "He is correct in saying that we cannot defeat the familiars without also defeating the witch, but there is one element I saw that he has neglected to mention. Without Sister Hope to guide their senses, and without a symbolic representation of the light by which their shadows are cast, the familiars will be unable to manifest outside of the witch's labyrinth."

"Sister Hope did say something to that effect," Archer chimes in, unfolding his arms from his chest. "She said that the sunburst they use as their symbol represents the light that casts the witch's shadows. In other words, the witch must need that symbol to manifest their familiars."

"Then we have the basics of our plan." You stand, and with a snap of your fingers project several aerial angles of the 'Church' warehouse onto your projector screens. "If Caster says that Rider and the familiars will stalemate each other, then we'll use him as a diversion." You turn to the servant presence seated beside Kyouko, and Rider appears beside her. "Your task will be to draw the familiars into open territory, away from Sister Hope. If they need her to be their eyes and ears, then perhaps luring them away from her will blind and deafen them." Next, "Caster, I know you said that we can't defeat the familiars without first defeating the witch, but if possible I'd like for you, as well as Mikuni Oriko and Lancer, to look into ways of either harming or hindering them, for as long as they're in our realm."

"Archer, you'll circle around the 'Church' and attempt to destroy as much of their imagery as possible. If the familiars need the 'Church's sunburst to appear in our world, then destroy every sunburst you can find."

"Does that include the ones inside the 'Church' as well?"

You nod. "Yes. Before we begin, I'll scout the 'Church' and see if it's possible to extract Sister Hope without us having to fight. If that's impossible, we'll move forward with the plan as stated, and once Rider has drawn the familiars far enough away, I'll move in, recover Sister Hope, and sever her connection to the witch. Either way, once I have her, I'll give the signal for you to level the 'Church' with everything you have."

"It won't work..." you hear an unfamiliar male voice whisper those words. There's a shuffle from the farthest couch, as Father Despair pulls himself up, rubbing at the back of his neck as he gazes out at the crowded living room. You can only imagine what sort of thoughts are going through his mind right now. "I... I don't know who, or what, any of you are, but I know that your plan won't work."

McRemitz-san is the first to speak up, asking "And how do you know that?" as she turns to Father Despair. "This is your daughter we're talking about rescuing. I would have assumed you'd be the first person who would want her back. Unless you have any better ideas, that is."

"Ah!" Father Despair's eyes light us at the sight of McRemitz-san. "I recognize you! The- the foreign lady, who- What happened to your arm? You had both of them-"

McRemitz-san cuts the man off with a stern glare, saying "Tell us why the plan won't work."

"... Right. Alina - that's my daughter - she was the first person to be touched by the Sister. The Sister... Chose her; I don't know why. There's nothing special about her that She couldn't have chosen anyone else. But I- I can't feel Her mark on my body any more, but I can still hear her... Alina was under for... A-a week, I think, longer than I was; maybe longer, I can't really remember much. Even if you cut Her mark off, she'll still hear Her, I'm sure..."

The man speaks with an impressive baritone, made all the less so by his mousy features and the constant waver in his voice. "As long as she's still able to hear Her, she'll be drawn to the Sister no matter what you do. As long as she's still able hold a pencil, she'll be able to make the mark that allows the Sister's shadows into the light... You would have to break her hands, and lock her in a dark room, if you wanted to truly prevent her from returning to being used as the Sister's vassal."

[ ] Continue with the plan anyway
-[ ] "Then we'll do what we have to to keep her and everyone else safe."
[ ] Take Father Despair's advice; call off the attack and save your strength
[ ] Try to meet in the middle; an alternative plan that retrieves Sister Hope and prevents her from falling back into the witch's clutches
-[ ] Is there such a plan? (write-in)
[ ] Other (write-in)​
 
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Too bad we can't just lock Alina in stasis until the witch is taken care of.

And we have no guarantee that the Black Mountain won't just latch on to someone else if we do sever the connection. (I'm convinced if we just lock her up, she'll resort to using her own blood to drawn the needed symbols.)
 
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Too bad we can't just lock Alina in stasis until the witch is taken care of.

And we have no guarantee that the Black Mountain won't just latch on to someone else of we do severe the connection. (I'm convinced if we just lock her up, she'll resort to using her own blood to drawn the needed symbols.)
The witch isn't just renting real estate inside her head at this point; the witch is Disney and Alina is everything you watch on TV. That's how bad she's got it.
 
Would weaponising Kyubey work?
How do you plan to weaponise Kyubey? What does that even entail?
I don't think that Witches can mind control Magical Girls, right?
Oriko got herself kissed some time after we BEFRIENDED her, and her only symptoms were loss of sleep (because it was the insomnia witch) and, following the witch's defeat, some sporadic memory loss (common side-effect of witch's kisses no matter what). But with regards to the witch of the Black Mountain, they're more likely to have the Sebastian's dismember us than they are try to kiss and mind control us.
 
How do you plan to weaponise Kyubey? What does that even entail?
Grab them both and order Kyubey to make her a Magical Girl, at gunpoint if necessary.

Oriko got herself kissed some time after we BEFRIENDED her, and her only symptoms were loss of sleep (because it was the insomnia witch) and, following the witch's defeat, some sporadic memory loss (common side-effect of witch's kisses no matter what). But with regards to the witch of the Black Mountain, they're more likely to have the Sebastian's dismember us than they are try to kiss and mind control us.
The idea was to make Alina a Magical Girl to free her from the control of the Black Mountain.
 
Grab them both and order Kyubey to make her a Magical Girl, at gunpoint if necessary.


The idea was to make Alina a Magical Girl to free her from the control of the Black Mountain.
She's barely cognizant enough to give a response that the witch hasn't already told her to say, and we've already seen what it looks like when she tries to deviate from the script. How is she supposed to make a wish?
 
The witch isn't just renting real estate inside her head at this point; the witch is Disney and Alina is everything you watch on TV. That's how bad she's got it.

This analogy doesn't really make sense to me, but I think I get the gist of what your saying?

[q] Have Archer nuke Sister Hope with Caladbolg. It's the only way to be sure.
 
[X] Try to meet in the middle; an alternative plan that retrieves Sister Hope and prevents her from falling back into the witch's clutches
-[X] Go with the plan as before, but knock Sister Hope out while doing so. Ask Caster and Bazett if they can utilize any sort of Magecraft/Magic that'll allow them to put Alina in an artificial slumber. If not, tell Lancer "Hey. Stop being a jobber and Isa this girl into a week-long coma". Regardless, they'll bind Alina while awaiting the Black Mountain's awakening.

There's no way some Magus hasn't invented a seal, Magecraft, or date-rape potion that would put someone under/force them asleep, seeing as how it would make for retrieving live subjects for a Magus' research much easier. If it was invented by Humanity, Caster'll have it.

EDIT: Going with SVS' suggestion, word for word. (obviously Homura won't be saying it like that, just thought it was funny)
 
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I forget. IS Homura aware that GoB is a great big bag of everything?
She knows it contains a massive storehouse of weaponry and magical items, because that's what Gil sold it to her and Mami as. She has no idea that Nasu thinks it should contain literally anything and everything ever created by mankind ever, forever.

Frankly, I miss the days when Gil didn't have a magic pressure cooker, hot springs, or nuclear submarine inside Babylon.
 
She knows it contains a massive storehouse of weaponry and magical items, because that's what Gil sold it to her and Mami as. She has no idea that Nasu thinks it should contain literally anything and everything ever created by mankind ever, forever.

Frankly, I miss the days when Gil didn't have a magic pressure cooker, hot springs, or nuclear submarine inside Babylon.
Let's not forget the mass-redecorating of Mami's apartment, now! xD
I think at this point, Homura probably thinks that Gilgamesh has whatever he wants to have, if not necessarily "everything invented by Humanity" specifically. Also I thought Homura looked at everyone's Servant parameters at school that one time after forcing the vote down her throat? GoB's description should clue her in, her being able to see its description due to having seen it in action.
 
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Let's not forget the mass-redecorating of Mami's apartment, now! xD
I think at this point, Homura probably thinks that Gilgamesh has whatever he wants to have, if not necessarily "everything invented by Humanity" specifically. Also I thought Homura looked at everyone's Servant parameters at school that one time after forcing the vote down her throat? GoB's description should clue her in, her being able to see its description due to having seen it in action.
The mass redecorating of her apartment is CasGil's Territory Creation, and logically it stands to reason that Gil would have massive amounts of gold and tapestries and his own furniture from his own temple from when he was king.

The bone I have to pick has more to do with the modern day GoB and the idea that it contains everything ever made by humans, ever, forever, even long after Gil's time. We've made a lot of worthless shit in our thousands of years as societal beings, and to me it feels like it goes completely against Gil's character to bother with obtaining the worthless things we've created just because they exist. Some random hospital supplies or a random mage's date-rape drug just don't strike me as things that Gil would have bothered with obtaining because they don't strike me as things that would have or add value to his collection.
 
The mass redecorating of her apartment is CasGil's Territory Creation, and logically it stands to reason that Gil would have massive amounts of gold and tapestries and his own furniture from his own temple from when he was king.

The bone I have to pick has more to do with the modern day GoB and the idea that it contains everything ever made by humans, ever, forever, even long after Gil's time. We've made a lot of worthless shit in our thousands of years as societal beings, and to me it feels like it goes completely against Gil's character to bother with obtaining the worthless things we've created just because they exist. Some random hospital supplies or a random mage's date-rape drug just don't strike me as things that Gil would have bothered with obtaining because they don't strike me as things that would have or add value to his collection.
I think Gil might value things created by highly trained professionals (which both magi and medical engineers would qualify as), since they would symbolise the potential of human ingenuity. Even if he might not value the items themselves, he'd value the effort that went into making them.
 
The mass redecorating of her apartment is CasGil's Territory Creation, and logically it stands to reason that Gil would have massive amounts of gold and tapestries and his own furniture from his own temple from when he was king.

The bone I have to pick has more to do with the modern day GoB and the idea that it contains everything ever made by humans, ever, forever, even long after Gil's time. We've made a lot of worthless shit in our thousands of years as societal beings, and to me it feels like it goes completely against Gil's character to bother with obtaining the worthless things we've created just because they exist. Some random hospital supplies or a random mage's date-rape drug just don't strike me as things that Gil would have bothered with obtaining because they don't strike me as things that would have or add value to his collection.
I think Gil might value things created by highly trained professionals (which both magi and medical engineers would qualify as), since they would symbolise the potential of human ingenuity. Even if he might not value the items themselves, he'd value the effort that went into making them.
I agree with CMAzrael's assessment moreso. That hospital equipment you speak of was at one point the height of Human ingenuity (not even that long ago) and it's presence, including the advancement of medicine in general, had a huge impact on Humanity's way of life, which would definitely qualify for GoB. Obviously, things like ShamWow wouldn't make it in, however the first, and the greatest, towels would, due to their impact on our society (e.g. the development of proper hygiene throughout the ages, saving countless lives, alongside the most ideal version of it). The more original the creation, or the more greater it is, the more likely it would make it into GoB, like how Gilgamesh has all of the prototypes of most Noble Phantasms. A complex potion that puts someone under for a duration would definitely make it in, as would our modern-medicine equivalent used in hospitals, it's just that the best or original versions of said potion would more than likely make it in in particular.
 
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the best or original versions
See, I get that Nasuverse magic works on the principle of "older is better" but when we start talking medical or scientific advancements, or any advancements that aren't magical (and arbitrarily limited by your conception of magic being in a constant state of decay) "original" and "best" are more often than not mutually exclusive. Since we're talking about medical technology right now, would Gil have, say, Koch's original Tuberculin, or a modern-day anti-TB cocktail? Tuberculin was the original, but it sucked and was better as a TB indicator than a cure; whereas the modern stuff is infinitely better but is hardly "original"?

What about dinosaurs? if Gil had a dinosaur inside the GoB, how would he know what it looks like? I'm not even trying to joke when I bring this up- Science's perception of dinosaurs changes every few decades, so would a dinosaur belonging to a Gil summoned in 1890 be the same dinosaur as a Gil summoned in 1990? Would he have a different dinosaur for each era's conception of what dinosaurs look like? Would he even have a dinosaur dinosaur, or just whatever pile of bones was arranged into a dinosaur shape by human hands?

Or, what about that date-rape potion? If someone from 5,000 years ago made one, but someone from last week made one that improved on everything it did, which would Gil have? The original, or the "best"? If both, what would be the point of having one over if, outside of improvements, they both did the same thing?

I don't know. To me it feels way too easy to nitpick this stuff when you take the contents of GoB away from their original context of 'all the treasures in the world [collected by Gil] in his lifetime' and expand it to be 'literally everything and constantly expanding'.

And then, all of this is completely putting aside the fact that we don't even need to use Gil for this-
Too bad we can't just lock Alina in stasis [emphasis added] until the witch is taken care of.
-when we could just tell Lancer "Hey. Stop being a jobber and Isa this girl into a week-long coma" to the same effect, with less chance of Gil getting uppity at us for using him for something that's probably not his definition of "worth his time". But that's just me. Whether Gil decides to do it or not is all up to the roll of the die.
 
I would think that Gilgamesh would have the original, most functional version then. He would also have the best version, seeing as how I doubt a golden fishing rod was the original. Also, I'm pretty sure Gilgamesh doesn't have living creatures in his Gate, nor has Humanity created the dinosaurs of old. Gilgamesh would have the original, working version of such a potion you mentioned, as well has the best/greatest kind of the potion invented. He also has variations of stuff too, such as his many wines/luxury goods, so he'd also likely have variations of such a potion, such as those created under different methods for possibly differing purposes or are comparable to one another, or whatever else that's in his Gate (e.g. fishing rods, probably tanks/helicopters/nukes and the like, magical talismans from different cultures that perform the same thing, etc.).

Though yeah, GoB is basically a deus ex machina for whatever is needed at the time, I definitely agree with you there. You do you in this quest when it comes to Gilgamesh, just go with the usual "Gilgamesh only does what he wants/pushes them to use their resources" approach you've been going with if you want to circumvent such things being asked of him. Just because he has a date-rape potion doesn't mean he'll give it to them to use if they have the solution in their group already (Lancer). :)

Also edited my vote.
 
[X] Try to meet in the middle; an alternative plan that retrieves Sister Hope and prevents her from falling back into the witch's clutches
-[X] Go with the plan as before, but knock Sister Hope out while doing so. Ask Caster and Bazett if they can utilize any sort of Magecraft/Magic that'll allow them to put Alina in an artificial slumber. If not, tell Lancer "Hey. Stop being a jobber and Isa this girl into a week-long coma". Regardless, they'll bind Alina while awaiting the Black Mountain's awakening.
 
Though yeah, GoB is basically a deus ex machina for whatever is needed at the time, I definitely agree with you there.
Old GoB feels like a guy with a Jag, a Benz, a Rolls-Royce, a Ferrari, and a private jet; while New GoB feels like that same guy, but now he also has 50 Harleys, a dozen Honda Civics, a Toyota Camry, and a beat to shit jeep that's more rust than jeep parts.

doesn't mean he'll give it to them to use if they have the solution in their group already (Lancer).
Not just Lancer, but I feel like we've been neglecting all of our allied servants that aren't Archer or Caster with respect to their "screentime". We've gotten one good use out of Rider and Berserker so far, and we never even got to see that because we couldn't see inside Assassin's labyrinth. Berserker, that's understandable. How are we supposed to have any kind of meaningful interaction with him when he's barely coherent and driving his master insane just by existing? But it really feels like we should have at least tried interacting with Rider once Kyouko was our ally, since we did with Caster.
 
But it really feels like we should have at least tried interacting with Rider once Kyouko was our ally, since we did with Caster.
Rider is a pretty cool dude, and that's all we need to know. :V

[X] Try to meet in the middle; an alternative plan that retrieves Sister Hope and prevents her from falling back into the witch's clutches
-[X] Go with the plan as before, but knock Sister Hope out while doing so. Ask Caster and Bazett if they can utilize any sort of Magecraft/Magic that'll allow them to put Alina in an artificial slumber. If not, tell Lancer "Hey. Stop being a jobber and Isa this girl into a week-long coma". Regardless, they'll bind Alina while awaiting the Black Mountain's awakening.
 
Not just Lancer, but I feel like we've been neglecting all of our allied servants that aren't Archer or Caster with respect to their "screentime". We've gotten one good use out of Rider and Berserker so far, and we never even got to see that because we couldn't see inside Assassin's labyrinth. Berserker, that's understandable. How are we supposed to have any kind of meaningful interaction with him when he's barely coherent and driving his master insane just by existing? But it really feels like we should have at least tried interacting with Rider once Kyouko was our ally, since we did with Caster.
To be fair, the times in which we got to know Caster was during the period in which Homura and Archer weren't aware of who was friend or foe, and therefore Archer was sent to investigate. Specifically in regards to Rider, Kyoko for a good portion of the first part of the quest was really stand-offish and wouldn't have been likely to allow Rider any combat-worthy info to potential enemies/competition, and we're only really now earning some trust/friendliness after getting this quintet together. Hasn't been much opportunity since allying with Oriko & Kirika and dousing the flames Kyoko and others were raging over the duo's inclusion to really get to know Rider, but as such things are dying down we'll prob get a good chance to do so soon (assuming people don't die from the operation that's going to be done).

Hopefully Kirika takes Homura's advice after Oriko asks her about it, so then the group can get to know Lancelot.
 
Personal take on GoB is that it had the original and most mystically powerful material version of a valued concept humanity had come up with. But it comes out blinged to shit because of interaction with Gilgamesh's own Golden Rule, i.e. it has to be materially valuable as well.

I.e. if you got Gilgamesh to get an antibiotic he'd be bringing out Original Panacea, in a vial of purest jade, which works because it was the oldest iteration of the idea, back when medicine was (possibly literally) Magic, and is powerful because back then you had a lot of Mystery to the medicine and thus could make up the difference in unclear function with lots of MP.
 
Rider is a pretty cool dude, and that's all we need to know. :V
But what if he could be more? What if he could be the coolest dude?
Or what if he had actual depth to his character beyond what Fate/A Potted Plant allowed him to be because allowing him to be any more would have cut into Walking Garbage Sieg's screen time?

Hopefully Kirika takes Homura's advice after Oriko asks her about it, so then the group can get to know Lancelot.
And hopefully Kirika will be willing to use a whole lot more after that, once Lancelot realizes that Oriko looks like Guinevere.

Personal take on GoB is that it had the original and most mystically powerful material version of a valued concept humanity had come up with. But it comes out blinged to shit because of interaction with Gilgamesh's own Golden Rule, i.e. it has to be materially valuable as well.

I.e. if you got Gilgamesh to get an antibiotic he'd be bringing out Original Panacea, in a vial of purest jade, which works because it was the oldest iteration of the idea, back when medicine was (possibly literally) Magic, and is powerful because back then you had a lot of Mystery to the medicine and thus could make up the difference in unclear function with lots of MP.
Now see, this is a take on GoB that I can get behind, because it jives with Gil as a person and as a character, gives both actual and perceived value to the contents of GoB while cutting away mountains of chaff, and manages to mesh both the original and modern takes on GoB seamlessly without veering into Nasu-ese and trying to say that ancient Sumerians had nuclear submarines because
The desires of ancient humans were similar to those of the current age, so their technology, bolstered by the powerful magic of his era, was not inferior to that of the modern age.
which just sounds like the cheapest copout ever in all of Fate, even cheaper than Saber dodging the Gae Bolg because muh luck stat.
 
Saber dodging the Gae Bolg because muh luck stat.
Mmm, personal take on THAT is that Saber's personal destiny overrode Gae Bolg's curse as a Fate based effect contest.
King Arthur is meant to be wounded by the Spear of the Dolorous Blow, but to survive, and be weakened by a wound which would not heal, but which would contribute to her demise later on. King Arthur's destiny was to fall by the blade of the ones she loved and trusted(Sparks Liner High).

So a spear using Destined To Die magic simply wouldn't work on her on the first time, but if she had to fight Gae Bolg a second time there was a very significant chance of it killing her.
 
Before I get to typing, I just want to take a moment to lament how, thanks to the update, I now have to manually type out [.justify] and [.hr] if I want to jusify my text or insert a page break. It's an inarguable drop in functionality from the previous version, and I don't like it one bit.
 
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