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Confringentur, Mk.2; a Madoka Magica / Fate/Stay Night crossover

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but could we use Inguz to cleanse our soul gem? Either by using it to store our corruption in an item or by granting us a passive regen. I can't remember how soul gems work in this story. If they build up corruption that needs to be drained away or if they get used up and need to be refilled. Either way Inguz might be able to address the issue. Which is a very good thing to work towards as aren't we running really low on witches to hunt?

I do think we should focus on runes instead of dipping into reinforcement since with runes we can also combine the runes we know for even more effects so the more runes we know the more we can accomplish.
 
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Enetious said:
Please, @Slayer 10321 @NMS @SaintBenot, I need your opinions on what kind of thing you guys want Homura to work towards. 😅

Anything thoughts on what Homura should work towards is fine; if you think Homura should stick to Isa and go down another path, sure; if you want her to go down the McRemitz School of Reinforcement, that's fine; do you think Homura would benefit from having Instinct, Eye of the Mind, Magic Resistance, etc.? Just chip in your thoughts. We don't even have to go down a full path, we could just have Homura dip into some of them for some lower/mid-level benefits before switching to another. I just don't want to be making this decision for everybody considering this will likely drastically alter the way Homura utilizes her abilities in battle for most of the Runes in question.
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I pick reinforcement since the OP talked about nerfing Eye of the Mind.
 
I'll have you know that I have 25,000 men from my hometown at my beck and call!




... ahem.

I don't social. Much. I joke about living in a cave, but outside of close friends asking me to go out and watch a movie, I'm not really sure about this kind of stuff. So I'm gonna suggest watching a movie (inside). Or playing Monopoly.
Enetious said:
Please, @Slayer 10321 @NMS @SaintBenot, I need your opinions on what kind of thing you guys want Homura to work towards. 😅
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I know you asked for input earlier than this, and I don't know if you were asking me for help at that time, but I'll address it now. Look, I saw that index post you linked a couple pages ago, and it's so deeply steeped in Fate that I cannot in good conscious make any informed decision. Luck this, Causality that, I have absolutely no clue. It was what my "You're talking to me?" post was getting at. So I can't give any help, sorry. (And if this comes off as aggressive, that's not quite my intention and I also apologise for that)
 
Slayer 10321 said:
I pick reinforcement since the OP talked about nerfing Eye of the Mind.
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I might agree if we could get reinforcement up to a decent level, but according to Archer we would be lucky to be able to reinforce two limbs at the same time by the time Walpurgisnacht arrives. Better to improve our rune magic instead. Basically reinforcement would slightly improve our survivability but wouldn't give us any new options or any way to hurt Walpurgis. Runes on the other hand give us more options and abilities.
 
hyrushoten said:
I might agree if we could get reinforcement up to a decent level, but according to Archer we would be lucky to be able to reinforce two limbs at the same time by the time Walpurgisnacht arrives. Better to improve our rune magic instead. Basically reinforcement would slightly improve our survivability but wouldn't give us any new options or any way to hurt Walpurgis. Runes on the other hand give us more options and abilities.
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I was referring to the reinforcement rune...unless I was mistaken.
 
Slayer 10321 said:
I was referring to the reinforcement rune...unless I was mistaken.
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Well I think most of the problems with reinforcement magic are also present with the reinforcement rune. I think it is a better choice, just that there are other runes that would be more beneficial. Remember that we're working on a time limit and so whatever magic we develop will be limited. In the long run using runes like Bazett does to give us high grade reinforcement would be incredibly useful, but we won't reach that level by the time we need it.
 
hyrushoten said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but could we use Inguz to cleanse our soul gem? Either by using it to store our corruption in an item or by granting us a passive regen. ... Either way Inguz might be able to address the issue. Which is a very good thing to work towards as aren't we running really low on witches to hunt?
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Now, I don't want to say whether you're on the right track or not, but I would like you to elaborate more on your idea of using Inguz to cleanse Soul Gems. How do we do it; what else would we need to know how to do in order to achieve the desired result; and, as Homura looking out, how would we even come to the conclusion that that's something (you think) we can do with Inguz?
Slayer 10321 said:
I pick reinforcement since the OP talked about nerfing Eye of the Mind.
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Not so much a 'nerf' as much as it is 'I don't know how to best approach writing EotM any better than I already am, considering that I think it's a skill Homura likely already possesses to some degree'.
WanderingTwix said:
I'll have you know that I have 25,000 men from my hometown at my beck and call!
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Oh, good. That almost makes it a fair fight.
I don't social. Much. I joke about living in a cave, but outside of close friends asking me to go out and watch a movie, I'm not really sure about this kind of stuff. So I'm gonna suggest watching a movie (inside). Or playing Monopoly.
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There's no TV in the Mikuni cabin, and if we want to make progress in our relationships with the other girls, and not destroy them outright, Monopoly is probably the worst possible way of achieving that. I'm picturing Kirika REEE'ing because Sayaka won't sell Oriko a property, Homura stopping time to rearrange the board to Madoka's advantage (and also being bled dry by Kirika whom she has to keep blackmailing in order to let her BS slide) and Kyouko just blatantly fucking over everyone she can as often as she can. Oriko using her precognition to see what die rolls she'll get and planning her moves 10 steps ahead, Mami forming ribbons into the shape of dice and using them to always get the best possible roll; just an all-around shitshow, Monopoly would be.
 
SVS said:
There's no TV in the Mikuni cabin, and if we want to make progress in our relationships with the other girls, and not destroy them outright, Monopoly is probably the worst possible way of achieving that. I'm picturing Kirika REEE'ing because Sayaka won't sell Oriko a property, Homura stopping time to rearrange the board to Madoka's advantage (and also being bled dry by Kirika whom she has to keep blackmailing in order to let her BS slide) and Kyouko just blatantly fucking over everyone she can as often as she can. Oriko using her precognition to see what die rolls she'll get and planning her moves 10 steps ahead, Mami forming ribbons into the shape of dice and using them to always get the best possible roll; just an all-around shitshow, Monopoly would be.
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Perfect, sounds like a great bonding opportunity. :V The test of friendship is how much you can hate each other and still be friends the next day.
 
WanderingTwix said:
Perfect, sounds like a great bonding opportunity. :V The test of friendship is how much you can hate each other and still be friends the next day.
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On the flip side, the absolute worst thing that could happen is we lose several important allies when the complete frustration of the game causes Oriko and Kirika to break up, Sayaka to beat Kyouko so badly we need several Avalons just to duct tape her back together, and the timeline ending up forsaken when someone accidentally shoves the scotty dog into Madoka's eye.
 
Still better than Monopoly with my family. (*Loud screaming* "If you give me that property then I'll stop." *Resumes Loud Screaming*)
 
Agh, missed a lot of responses, so I'm just gonna @ people.

@SVS Eye of the Mind doesn't have to make you include vastly more detail, the important part of it is that it's a spur of the moment combat thing, where Homura (if she had the Rune) could dodge vastly faster/stronger enemy's attacks like Archer does against Lancer in F/SN, and it would also grant her vastly increased capability offensively against her opponents that excels at taking advantage of weaknesses; one example being her shooting her bow at just the right angle and predicting where her opponent will be on the fly to accurately shoot them in the heel between a nick in their armor.

@NMS I linked you since you never really acknowledged my argument against going down that path, namely that drain would probably be useless against Homura's primary enemies, Witches and familiars (and especially Walpurgis); Witches don't have stamina nor do they have a cap on magical energy (presumably). If we were to go down another Isa path I'd highly recommend the time slowing one, as that debuff would work against just about everything that's not Kirika.

I'm casting my vote for learning Inguz as that's what SVS recommended :p. Here's what I'd previously written about it:
Inguz: Storage of mana and/or life energy in the rune/object it's on, can eject the mana and/or life energy in the rune or from an object it's placed on, increase passive regeneration of od (life energy), hypnosis magic
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Homura might be able to "eject" grief from Grief Seeds, might be able to passively reduce grief in Soul Gems over time, can store all kinds of magical energy for a variety of uses; she could carve Inguz on accessories for her friends/allies to grant them the passive grief reduction/for them to have a store of magical energy on hand; she could give a passive od regen to Hitomi as she'd benefit from it as well. The whole ejection of grief thing would more than likely work, btw, since the Incubator is able to take grief out of Grief Seeds in the first place to harvest the grief for energy.

EDIT: Actually nvm on the whole having Homura learn Inguz thing; if Inguz could do that why not just have Lancer do it for the team? :p
 
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SVS said:
Now, I don't want to say whether you're on the right track or not, but I would like you to elaborate more on your idea of using Inguz to cleanse Soul Gems. How do we do it; what else would we need to know how to do in order to achieve the desired result; and, as Homura looking out, how would we even come to the conclusion that that's something (you think) we can do with Inguz?
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Well how I imagine it could work is that Inguz would let us transfer the corruption from the soul gem to some other item, thus cleansing the soul gem. Of course for this to work our soul gem corruption needs to be something that Inguz affect. We would also need the item to actually be able to hold the corruption and not immediately explode. I'm not sure how much of a handicap that is though. Whether a nice solid rock would be enough, or if we would need high quality gems, or if we would need to magically enhance an object before it could hold the corruption.
As for why Homura would think of it that is fairly straightforward. First off she knows from Kirika that runes can be used to top off one soul gem with another, so she knows that there are ways runes can be used to counter the corruption. As for Inguz she would be thinking about the lack of witches and thus grief seeds and want to find a solution and Inguz would be the closest to recreating a grief seed.

Of course just as I finish this Enetious comes in and provides a bunch of alternate uses of the Inguz rune that I hadn't even thought about. One thing I'm unsure of though is what effects ejecting grief would have. Is it a minor effect or would it have a noticeable negative impact on the area such as making a witch or familiar? I mean being able to reuse grief seeds would be an even better option than my idea since she could cleanse grief seeds for everybody to use instead of only being able to cleanse her own soul gem.
 
Enetious said:
Witches don't have stamina nor do they have a cap on magical energy (presumably).
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If that were true then there's not really a reason for the Incubators to have created more than the first Witch. Cause, like, their whole thing is trying to stave off the heat death of the universe, right? So, if Witches really did have inifite magical energy, then QB and Co would have finished their buisness on Earth millennia ago. If they even would have done their thing on Earth at all?
 
Enetious said:
Homura might be able to "eject" grief from Grief Seeds, might be able to passively reduce grief in Soul Gems over time, can store all kinds of magical energy for a variety of uses; she could carve Inguz on accessories for her friends/allies to grant them the passive grief reduction/for them to have a store of magical energy on hand; she could give a passive od regen to Hitomi as she'd benefit from it as well. The whole ejection of grief thing would more than likely work, btw, since the Incubator is able to take grief out of Grief Seeds in the first place to harvest the grief for energy.
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SaintBenot said:
What would actually happen to the grief that's ejected? Would it just float around?
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hyrushoten said:
Well how I imagine it could work is that Inguz would let us transfer the corruption from the soul gem to some other item, thus cleansing the soul gem. Of course for this to work our soul gem corruption needs to be something that Inguz affect. We would also need the item to actually be able to hold the corruption and not immediately explode. I'm not sure how much of a handicap that is though. Whether a nice solid rock would be enough, or if we would need high quality gems, or if we would need to magically enhance an object before it could hold the corruption.
As for why Homura would think of it that is fairly straightforward. First off she knows from Kirika that runes can be used to top off one soul gem with another, so she knows that there are ways runes can be used to counter the corruption. As for Inguz she would be thinking about the lack of witches and thus grief seeds and want to find a solution and Inguz would be the closest to recreating a grief seed.

Of course just as I finish this Enetious comes in and provides a bunch of alternate uses of the Inguz rune that I hadn't even thought about. One thing I'm unsure of though is what effects ejecting grief would have. Is it a minor effect or would it have a noticeable negative impact on the area such as making a witch or familiar? I mean being able to reuse grief seeds would be an even better option than my idea since she could cleanse grief seeds for everybody to use instead of only being able to cleanse her own soul gem.
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'Ejecting' Grief would most likely be bad for the environment, but since you're all hitting the nail at least partially on the head I can say this- We'd also probably want to dabble in a bit of gem magic in order to safely transfer Grief from our Soul Gem into another receptacle.
Enetious said:
EDIT: Actually nvm on the whole having Homura learn Inguz thing; if Inguz could do that why not just have Lancer do it for the team?
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And what do we do if/when Lancer is no longer around? Are we SOL if we're relying on her to perform a vital task and something happens to her?
 
hyrushoten said:
Of course just as I finish this Enetious comes in and provides a bunch of alternate uses of the Inguz rune that I hadn't even thought about. One thing I'm unsure of though is what effects ejecting grief would have. Is it a minor effect or would it have a noticeable negative impact on the area such as making a witch or familiar? I mean being able to reuse grief seeds would be an even better option than my idea since she could cleanse grief seeds for everybody to use instead of only being able to cleanse her own soul gem.
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General pollution? "Depletion Garden"? Uncontrolled familiars (generic familiars? Candeloro/Ophelia/Latria/Sotria/Homulily familiars, depending on the main source of vented grief?)
In short: a key point would be finding a way to contain the corruption so you don't get Bad Things happening.
 
SVS said:
And what do we do if/when Lancer is no longer around? Are we SOL if we're relying on her to perform a vital task and something happens to her?
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... that's a very fair point, and from Homura's perspective she could prob use it in future timelines if things don't work out. I'm back in the Inguz group. :)

Could everyone just cast their Rune votes now for when we formulate the final vote?
[X] Inguz
 
[X] Inguz

As tempting as something like Eye of the Mind or Instinct is, being able to cleanse soul gems on our own is an advantage we can't pass up.
 
Altria_Pendragon said:
General pollution? "Depletion Garden"? Uncontrolled familiars (generic familiars? Candeloro/Ophelia/Latria/Sotria/Homulily familiars, depending on the main source of vented grief?)
In short: a key point would be finding a way to contain the corruption so you don't get Bad Things happening.
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I just want to say that "Depletion Garden" would make a kickass name for a metal album.
 
[X] Inguz

Fuck it, I've been convinced.

I also wonder but since Grief is highly corrosive to...everything, once we learn to remove it from our (Homura's) Soul Gem, can we take the Grief and at minimum use it like a bootleg Gandhr/'Magic Missile'? Because Gandhr seems like weaponized Grief from what I remember about it's description.
 
Slayer 10321 said:
I also wonder but since Grief is highly corrosive to...everything, once we learn to remove it from our (Homura's) Soul Gem, can we take the Grief and at minimum use it like a bootleg Gandhr/'Magic Missile'? Because Gandhr seems like weaponized Grief from what I remember about it's description.
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... yes, all of this. Have Homura store a bunch of Grief in a makeshift tin can like a pipe bomb /s.
 
Didn't know we were voting on this right now, but in that case
[X] Inguz

Isn't Inguz the equivalent of gem magic? I mean maybe it only lets you put mana/life energy into an item and not actual spells (although I suspect it can do that as well) but that's all we need it to do. The magecraft the Tohsakas use is based on transference and storage of mana, which is what Inguz does, and they use gems because they have a high natural storage capacity and retetion. Gems also come with inbuilt traits.
Gems might not even be the best material for holding Grief. After all a large collection of Grief can lead to Witches and it is at least implied that Kyubey collects full Grief seeds to dispose of them before they turn back into witches. So having a gem full of a lot of Grief might do the same. Rather it might be better to use something else that can't hold as much and as well and just use more of them. If they slowly leak the Grief back into the world that might be the best way to handle it instead of letting it pile up in one location. Essentially one method would be using one expensive gemstone to drain a Soul Gem and then having to find something to do with that large buildup of Grief. Another method would be using five or ten marbles (or whatever) to drain a Soul Gem then scatter those marbles over a large area and let the Grief slowly dissipate without releasing very much very fast in any one location.

Slayer 10321 said:
I also wonder but since Grief is highly corrosive to...everything, once we learn to remove it from our (Homura's) Soul Gem, can we take the Grief and at minimum use it like a bootleg Gandhr/'Magic Missile'? Because Gandhr seems like weaponized Grief from what I remember about it's description.
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While this might be doable against people I think it would not be all that useful against Witches. Still something to consider.
 
[X] Plan A Grieftastic Night
-[X] What do you suggest after everyone has eaten and had the chance to tell a scary story?
--[X] Get through any school work they might have brought so that they could enjoy themselves all day tomorrow, with Archer chipping in to aid them in their school projects when applicable
--[X] Learn the basics of Inguz from Lancer after you've gotten through your school work with your friends

EDIT: @hyrushoten grief can only spawn a witch if its in a Grief Seed/Soul Gem. On it's own its just volatile energy. Also we don't have to store grief in expensive gems, especially if we're not planning on using it in the future; plus the runes themselves can store magical energy and a lot more concretely than non Age of Gods methods.
 
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