PS Leffen I Ain't Done Yet.
Private Lee O'Malley
Easygoing Egoist
- Location
- Gensokyo
Full Disclosure: This is in part sponsored by Sony Pictures Animation
I have ran three quests, none of which were successful and went out not with a bang, but a whimper. Take that into note as you read on. (or skip to the tl;dr.)
Oh, and I promise nothing and deliver less.
So, quests are really popular. Like, "Most Viewed Board on SV" popular. Quests can stretch onto thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of pages so it's quite clear people love quests. The #1 goal of all fiction is to get the audience invested, so what's a better way of doing that than giving them direct control over the story's plot? Of course, not exactly one person has all the control but rather, everyone has a voice in changing the story. This leads to the huge amount of pages due to all the discussion that occurs inbetween updates. That's what makes quests so much fun, asides from the folks who take it too seriously and begin insulting others by comparing their fighting skills to a dairy farmer.
At the same time, however, what makes quests so fun can also end up harming the quest's story. It's a common joke between QMs that one should never considering putting in a joke option because that will be picked, regardless of how detrimental it is. There is also the fact that story can be put aside in favor of making a fun game/experience, depending on how much game mechanics play into the story. Then there's pressure from the questers themselves who may get too invested in a character or have formed an image of what the character is like, etc. That can make the QM wary of either killing 'em off, or introducing something that goes against what the questers think of the character.
Although really, quester pressure is omnipresent in all stages of the quest. This can lead to QMs making suboptimal decisions for the story simply because they want to retain the playerbase. Now you might say this is true of fic writers, but the fact that questers actually do have a hand in the story makes a big difference. A fic reader may read something that's questionable to them but shrug it off. However, it's more difficult for a quester to do that as either they can feel cheated in that the QM took the story in a direction they didn't mean to in their vote. Or angry and spiteful when an opposing vote wins resulting in a negative consequence or changing the story in a way they don't like. This can sour them and swear off the quest permanently as they feel it's been "ruined" for them by others. So quester retention is (Note: There are no facts backing this up. In fact, there is no evidence for anything in here. All of this is just anecdotal.) more difficult to maintain than it is for a normal fic.
Solutions to this can be either keeping the general direction of the story vague, heavily railroading it, or start off with your original story and then adapt accordingly. Unfortunately, all of these options are suboptimal, with the second one just asking for a flame war. They are suboptimal because making a good story out of them is a lot more difficult due to all the variables tossed in. Now is this to say quests can't be fun because their stories aren't good? Far from it! Cherno Alpha quest was a fucking blast to play because fuck yeah punching giant monsters in the face! Who cares about plot? (Admittedly there was a good mystery plot going on BUT ROWBITS THO.) But notice how I said "play", it really wasn't a story. More like the story was a mechanism to throw out bigger and tougher challenges which is fine n' dandy. This, however, makes it a poor example as it isn't a narrative heavy quest so let's turn to say, Terrene Spire!
...
Okay you Terrene Spire (Am I even spelling it right?) folks are going to need to help me out because I have no idea what it's about sans that it's pretty heavy on story. People seem to like it, so I assume it's a pretty good story. That's the thing though, is it good because of the player investment in it, or is it good simply because it's good and being part of the experience only improves upon it, not cover up it's shortcomings? In fact, how much do the questers effect the story?
See, thing is, we're a pretty niche bunch of blokes. Not only are we nerds/geeks/whatever the fuck, but we also communicate through an online forum. That's not even getting to the franchises we like, which deviates us even further from the mainstream. So, we're all really weird folks with crazy ass ideas all pooling into one story helmed by a dude who is probably just as insane as us. Somehow, through all the bloodshed and screaming, the story is concluded at it's own pace and not because of a gameover. Great! Everyone is cheering n' shit and slapping each other on the back about how much of an experience it was.
Excellent.
Now what do people in the mainstream think about it?
And no, this isn't about how nerd culture is worthless and that it doesn't matter compared to the "real world", but rather where the enjoyment is derived from the quest. Since a quest's story appeals primarily to it's audience, who are usually not aligned with the same views as the rest of the world, does that weaken it? Could a quest stand on it's two feet, or does it rely on it's players to bolster it's popularity? Can a quest actually make it big or will they forever be condoned to being "That Weird Thing From SV"? Can a quest appeal to people outsie of our demographic?
I ask this because I feel that it is difficult to write a story when there's a bunch of people looking over your shoulder, shouting suggestions and getting upset when you don't accept them. So while the story would be enjoyable to that specific audience, it might not pick up any ground simply because it only appeals to a very niche group and sacrifices too much to satisfy said group. It becomes a balancing act between your vision and the wants of the questers, at least I think it is. But once again, I am a shitbag writer so this is all probably just crazy talk.
tl;dr:
fuck u read it all
Can you write a good story within the handicaps of a quest? Do questers actually ruin stories? Will said story stand a chance outside of it's very niche audience?
Are questers the ones holding back a quest's narrative potential?
inb4 this is all just a conspiracy to get more people to write stories marketable to a wide audience so that squishy can profit off of them.
I have ran three quests, none of which were successful and went out not with a bang, but a whimper. Take that into note as you read on. (or skip to the tl;dr.)
Oh, and I promise nothing and deliver less.
So, quests are really popular. Like, "Most Viewed Board on SV" popular. Quests can stretch onto thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of pages so it's quite clear people love quests. The #1 goal of all fiction is to get the audience invested, so what's a better way of doing that than giving them direct control over the story's plot? Of course, not exactly one person has all the control but rather, everyone has a voice in changing the story. This leads to the huge amount of pages due to all the discussion that occurs inbetween updates. That's what makes quests so much fun, asides from the folks who take it too seriously and begin insulting others by comparing their fighting skills to a dairy farmer.
At the same time, however, what makes quests so fun can also end up harming the quest's story. It's a common joke between QMs that one should never considering putting in a joke option because that will be picked, regardless of how detrimental it is. There is also the fact that story can be put aside in favor of making a fun game/experience, depending on how much game mechanics play into the story. Then there's pressure from the questers themselves who may get too invested in a character or have formed an image of what the character is like, etc. That can make the QM wary of either killing 'em off, or introducing something that goes against what the questers think of the character.
Although really, quester pressure is omnipresent in all stages of the quest. This can lead to QMs making suboptimal decisions for the story simply because they want to retain the playerbase. Now you might say this is true of fic writers, but the fact that questers actually do have a hand in the story makes a big difference. A fic reader may read something that's questionable to them but shrug it off. However, it's more difficult for a quester to do that as either they can feel cheated in that the QM took the story in a direction they didn't mean to in their vote. Or angry and spiteful when an opposing vote wins resulting in a negative consequence or changing the story in a way they don't like. This can sour them and swear off the quest permanently as they feel it's been "ruined" for them by others. So quester retention is (Note: There are no facts backing this up. In fact, there is no evidence for anything in here. All of this is just anecdotal.) more difficult to maintain than it is for a normal fic.
Solutions to this can be either keeping the general direction of the story vague, heavily railroading it, or start off with your original story and then adapt accordingly. Unfortunately, all of these options are suboptimal, with the second one just asking for a flame war. They are suboptimal because making a good story out of them is a lot more difficult due to all the variables tossed in. Now is this to say quests can't be fun because their stories aren't good? Far from it! Cherno Alpha quest was a fucking blast to play because fuck yeah punching giant monsters in the face! Who cares about plot? (Admittedly there was a good mystery plot going on BUT ROWBITS THO.) But notice how I said "play", it really wasn't a story. More like the story was a mechanism to throw out bigger and tougher challenges which is fine n' dandy. This, however, makes it a poor example as it isn't a narrative heavy quest so let's turn to say, Terrene Spire!
...
Okay you Terrene Spire (Am I even spelling it right?) folks are going to need to help me out because I have no idea what it's about sans that it's pretty heavy on story. People seem to like it, so I assume it's a pretty good story. That's the thing though, is it good because of the player investment in it, or is it good simply because it's good and being part of the experience only improves upon it, not cover up it's shortcomings? In fact, how much do the questers effect the story?
See, thing is, we're a pretty niche bunch of blokes. Not only are we nerds/geeks/whatever the fuck, but we also communicate through an online forum. That's not even getting to the franchises we like, which deviates us even further from the mainstream. So, we're all really weird folks with crazy ass ideas all pooling into one story helmed by a dude who is probably just as insane as us. Somehow, through all the bloodshed and screaming, the story is concluded at it's own pace and not because of a gameover. Great! Everyone is cheering n' shit and slapping each other on the back about how much of an experience it was.
Excellent.
Now what do people in the mainstream think about it?
And no, this isn't about how nerd culture is worthless and that it doesn't matter compared to the "real world", but rather where the enjoyment is derived from the quest. Since a quest's story appeals primarily to it's audience, who are usually not aligned with the same views as the rest of the world, does that weaken it? Could a quest stand on it's two feet, or does it rely on it's players to bolster it's popularity? Can a quest actually make it big or will they forever be condoned to being "That Weird Thing From SV"? Can a quest appeal to people outsie of our demographic?
I ask this because I feel that it is difficult to write a story when there's a bunch of people looking over your shoulder, shouting suggestions and getting upset when you don't accept them. So while the story would be enjoyable to that specific audience, it might not pick up any ground simply because it only appeals to a very niche group and sacrifices too much to satisfy said group. It becomes a balancing act between your vision and the wants of the questers, at least I think it is. But once again, I am a shitbag writer so this is all probably just crazy talk.
tl;dr:
Can you write a good story within the handicaps of a quest? Do questers actually ruin stories? Will said story stand a chance outside of it's very niche audience?
Are questers the ones holding back a quest's narrative potential?
inb4 this is all just a conspiracy to get more people to write stories marketable to a wide audience so that squishy can profit off of them.
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