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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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I don't get why everyone thinks that nothing happens, given that we've already destroyed canon beyond saving.

The local PRT is practically neutered and on every public official's shit list, March came in and whipped the ABB into somehow being worse, the Undersiders are falling apart, Uppercrust's (and with him the Elite have a foot in), Dragon and the Dragonslayers have come knocking, and now the Teeth are back.

In comparison to the summit in Worm, everything in BCF summit's practically unrecognizable.
 
I think I can empathize a bit more now with the complaints about the pacing. The best way I can think to describe it as is as if we are getting continuous starters and side-dishes when we are hoping for the main course. These dishes are both individually delicious and will likely complement the chef's final dish perfectly, but they just keep coming, building up the final treat when you just want to dig in already. Not really a fault I think, so much as just a characteristic of the story but I can see why some people might be annoyed. It really just means I'll have to be patient with the updates and then re-read the whole arc later to appreciate it properly.
 
S. Shortcake said:
I don't get why everyone thinks that nothing happens, given that we've already destroyed canon beyond saving.

The local PRT is practically neutered and on every public official's shit list, March came in and whipped the ABB into somehow being worse, the Undersiders are falling apart, Uppercrust's (and with him the Elite have a foot in), Dragon and the Dragonslayers have come knocking, and now the Teeth are back.

In comparison to the summit in Worm, everything in BCF summit's practically unrecognizable.
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It's not that they think the story is somehow stations of canon compliant. Because it's not.

It's because out of the 11k words. Over half was to show the Capes moving chairs, and the Butcher posturing and Joe letting them because as stated, he's too passive to take any initiative.

Sure, Joe not being a doormat anymore is stupendeously big, and it was delivered in a way thar conveys it's importance.

Does the world end with you, or does it extend further than that?
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Profound stuff

But when it takes you thousands of words to descibe people moving their seats a bit...well, the phrase less is more comes to mind.

Basically, Lord always, always, always spend thousands of words to describe every single detail from the most minute and trivial ( moving seats a few inches ) that it takes hundreds of thousands of words and tens of chapters for all that build up to actually bear fruit.

tulsa360 said:
I know its not going to happen, but I really, really, want Apieron to just cut the Gordian knot, not let the Teeth get a foothold in the city, and just unbind/exorcise the Butcher.
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Same, I was getting pretty pissed when it looked like Joe was just gonna remain passive again and just placate the Butcher and the rest of the villains when he could stomp them by himself because he's too much of a doormat to actually leave the workshop for more than an hour to take care of them.

If Joe hadn't rolled his latest perk that literally makes him not a doormat I would be resigned to another 500k words of Joe indecisively playing balancing act with the Teeth and the rest of the factions because he's waiting for another Fiat Perk that'll give him the perfect counter to Ziz, thankfully it came early.

But now? I'm hoping Joe's newfound spine turns out to actually useful now that A) He's immune to the Ziz's precog B) He's now also immune to Master effects so he doesn't have to fear becoming a Ziz Bomb.
 
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Yeah. Like I get the need for flowery speech and really going in depth in descriptions and how you can really get into a flow when you write about something you enjoy... but KISS is your friend.

The worst thing I think that just adds too much needless stuffing in the word count is Joe's constant hyper analyzing of people reacting to him. Like it's one thing to draw attention to a character's extra sense or thinker power picking up stuff, it's another to use it for basically pulling a Isekai/Anime/OPFic side character reaction montage in how everyone reacts to him slightly shifting in his chair.
 
Kraftykidd said:
Yeah. Like I get the need for flowery speech and really going in depth in descriptions and how you can really get into a flow when you write about something you enjoy... but KISS is your friend.

The worst thing I think that just adds too much needless stuffing in the word count is Joe's constant hyper analyzing of people reacting to him. Like it's one thing to draw attention to a character's extra sense or thinker power picking up stuff, it's another to use it for basically pulling a Isekai/Anime/OPFic side character reaction montage in how everyone reacts to him slightly shifting in his chair.
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Exactly, at the rate things are going the next chapter's gonna be 5k+ words of Joe just posing and slightly moving his chair and the other Capes' reaction to it over analyzed to the Nth degree with countless mentions Dragon Pulse and their emotions etc etc

So much for being more proactive. Even Fiat backed precog immunity wasn't able to get him moving. Hopefully fiat backed Master/Stranger immunity and his power literally telling him to stop being such a doormat would speed things up beyond 500k words of tech exposition and buildup paired with 500k words of purple prose and over analyzing ever minute detail and 10k words of actual progression.
 
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LordRoustabout said:
was either a new recruit of a cape from one of the splinter cells who had recently changed her costume.
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or
LordRoustabout said:
The butcher glanced towards the rest of the Teeth and nodded
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B
LordRoustabout said:
Tetra, well, she was trying to avoid looking at Hemorrhagia, but that made the fact that she was restraining herself from looking at Hemorrhagia, which only served to put the cape further on edge
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As mentioned previously, there's a word missing here. Personally I'd add 'clear' after 'made', but there's various fixes.
 
LordRoustabout said:
I turned back to the table. The Butcher was looking impatient while the rest of the capes were one edge. This was another step, another place where I had to move forward. I'd been happy to let the Butcher make her proclamations, partially out of curiosity, but also in the hopes that I could work around her presence. That I could keep things stable long enough for them to improve. That I could go with the flow.

That stopped now. The Butcher and the Teeth were here, and it wasn't just to seize territory. Blasto had said it himself, Brockton wasn't a tempting target. Not now, and certainly not when it had been exploding on a nightly basis. But the Butcher had agreed to an alliance with the ABB. Why? What was she after? No, what had she been promised?

My own insights, Survey's analysis, fresh details from Tybalt, and the Butcher's own fear at the prospect of her death. It all came together. I smiled as I turned towards the confident women as the Forge missed a connection to the Size constellation, the murmurings of the table falling silent in response to the slight movement.

"Tell me," I asked the Butcher. "What was it that March offered you?"
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This is actually a excellent question. The Teeths and Butchers return to Brookton Bay was inevitable but that just means that when it happens is arbitrary which means that a Timing Thinker can decide it.



As for what's being offered I'd have to guess Titanhood, or something equally involved in Shardspace shenanigans, and/or Bakuda given that she's in need of healing, which could be granted by hosting the Butcher power, pronto. Something reliant upon time-crunches and impending desperation.
Gumiho said:
Man, fuck the Teeth. Hopefull, they are in for a smiting in the near future.
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AldariSiradla said:
From passive to active.
And the question, most important, has been asked.
What has the White Rabbit offered to the Bloody Butcher?
Why pick up the pieces of a dead city and impose ancestral ownership?
Why, why, why o' why?
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Rem Freeman said:
Apeiron: "Because I really hope it was worth what my team and I are about to do to you and yours. Spoiler: it wasn't."
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tulsa360 said:
I know its not going to happen, but I really, really, want Apieron to just cut the Gordian knot, not let the Teeth get a foothold in the city, and just unbind/exorcise the Butcher.
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Ghost in a wall said:
You know, I wonder why people haven't realized- The Butcher is fucked if they go against Ape-Iron. See, he doesn't need to kill the Butcher, instead, he just needs to make a sporific to knock them out. Then, he uses his healing prowess to ensure that the Butcher is in a medical coma and never wakes up. Problem solved.

I mean, nobody even knows where his workshop is, or admits to that. It's not like Joe couldn't hide the "body" somewhere nobody would ever find it. I doubt he'd do that, but really, it's something that he could easily do with the capacities he's shown in combat as is.
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Aaaall of these edgelords clamoring for the boring solution. So disappointing.
Daniel14541 said:
Well his power isn't wrong. He is a doormat.



What is interesting though is that this means he will earn immunity to the mental effects of the angel bitch.



Now that is an interesting way to stick it to her. She absolutely would be aiming for him first of all in a fight trying to subvert him but that is now impossible.
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Given that the Simurghs "Mastering" is based off of precognition and memory association, that being forcing a person to associate a memory with them and then associate themself with some future event to modify their behavior, the only way to avoid it would be to avoid remembering them.
Tiz Goldeneye said:
Seeing the World Ends With You was amazing. I hadn't even considered the therapeutic effects of needing to work past personal flaws that are present within the game, instead focusing purely on the power. I realize now that was wrong because Joe is struggling with a lot in his life and being given a clear path of what to work towards, as well as a reason to work towards it probably does mean the world. I'm glad to see his decision because the world ends with you only as far as you let it, if you're willing to reach out, to make connections with others, then the scope of the world is infinite and you can claim your part. Let Joe know certainty in who he is and have peace in his life.

"By ourselves, we're no one. It's when other people look at us, and see someone — that's the moment we each start to exist. All they needed was for someone to see them, connect with them"-Joshua (KH3D)
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That sounds like it's got synergy with his prayer powered stuff and whatnot.
Anaja said:
Powers are people themselves, and they're not willing to just sit back removed from the world. They can decide to change things if they need to.
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Yeah but to do that it'd need to leave behind a living person. Someone could be saved from that power. That'd also be a win condition.
KSn5Ynoh said:
Ah yes, the clones choosing of their own volition to become passive for more power. I feel going behind Joe Prime's back is somewhat thematically opposed with Repeardom. If anything, I can see the clones leaning more towards Revival than Prime.
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No you don't understand. Clones are all about not needing to self-improve in the same way that Reapers are. They'll probably end up offing themselves just to supply more power.
Anaja said:
That Undefinable Thing lets him work with souls. It should be enough all on its own to remove past Butchers.
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Plus he'll want to figure out composite minds in relation to Exspheres before it develops one without that oversight.
KNM said:
It's not that they think the story is somehow stations of canon compliant. Because it's not.

It's because out of the 11k words. Over half was to show the Capes moving chairs, and the Butcher posturing and Joe letting them because as stated, he's too passive to take any initiative.

Sure, Joe not being a doormat anymore is stupendeously big, and it was delivered in a way thar conveys it's importance.


Profound stuff

But when it takes you thousands of words to descibe people moving their seats a bit...well, the phrase less is more comes to mind.

Basically, Lord always, always, always spend thousands of words to describe every single detail from the most minute and trivial ( moving seats a few inches ) that it takes hundreds of thousands of words and tens of chapters for all that build up to actually bear fruit.
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I hear that the Wheel Of Time series is the same way. Lots of description of physical habits like hair-tugging and shit like that.
 
Lord_Sanguinius said:
and yet another 10k chapter where nothing happens. when stuff happens in this story I love it but that is extremely rare yet somehow good enough that I keep reading. I just wish the technical bullshit spouting would stop.
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What the fuck are you talking about. Like it was a chapter full of character interaction.

What technical stuff.

Also a tin happened, the teeth are introduced and they stake their claim. Joe gets a new power that force him to make a choice about his future.

Like give me an example of what you would count as something happening. Like what do you want.
 
I await the response of the PRT, learning the Teeth are in town, as 'Reinforcements' to ABB.

On a different subject? We will soon reach over 1000 pages, will we start a new thread?
 
Kraftykidd said:
The worst thing I think that just adds too much needless stuffing in the word count is Joe's constant hyper analyzing of people reacting to him. Like it's one thing to draw attention to a character's extra sense or thinker power picking up stuff, it's another to use it for basically pulling a Isekai/Anime/OPFic side character reaction montage in how everyone reacts to him slightly shifting in his chair.
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I found the careful analysis of the cape leaders' reactions very valuable. It's a very fast way to get across details about who these characters are in this fic, while simultaneously communicating the mood of the gathering.
 
I can't wait for the reveal that March is a shard-zombie to the main cast. The scene with Leet where her blatant manipulations of timing were laid bare now that she's not really human any more... especially with how frustrated you could tell March was behind the scenes.
 
The perk on the stability of the psyche is fine, the introduction of teeth, too. As I would like a little more action, but this is due to weekly expectations, so we'll wait for more, what to do.
*mod deliverer on*
Something else is interesting. Will these hints related to the FaultLine develop? Was there any canonical continuation of that omake about Joe resting in a Palanquin?)
 
You would think that 1.2 million words into the story that everyone would have figured out how Brockton's Celestial Forge is paced, grasped LordRoustabout's writing, and realized that neither is going to change. The author has directly addressed such complaints time and again, even going so far as to try to accommodate them, almost to the point of burning out on the entire story trying to do so.

I guess some people just like to have something to bitch about. Every chapter it is the same damn critiques. I wonder if all the usual critics are even reading new chapters or are just popping in to repeat themselves.

Brockton's Celestial Forge is not just a good but flawed story. It's a fucking great story. A story I eagerly await a new chapter from every week or two weeks. I respect and admire the immense amount of work LordRoustabout puts into it. It is an ambitious and surprisingly deep work, where instead of just a crowd-pleasing series of crubstomp battles, Joe's progress along the branches of the Forge is simultaneously a metaphor for how Joe is slowly triumphing over his personal issues and building a new functional, caring family for himself, and the in-store impetus for those changes. BCF isn't a story about Joe vs the gangs of Brockton Bay, the Protectorate, the Endbringers, or even Scion. It's a story about Joe versus himself.

And a damned great one.
 
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TheScrub said:
Ah! Called it. No body=still alive, them's the rules (Expect Asian Dragon Boy, he's very dead).
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I think it was mentioning a WOG, but March probably called the Butcher in before the confrontation at the Docks, along with the Dragonslayers. One of the many balls she juggled in keeping the city off kilter.

The current Butcher is terrified of becoming one of the screaming voices in her head, and March probably enticed her with Leet's information and research into Passenger Space, with the possibility they might be able to do something.

Probably didn't know how exactly, but given that she had Leet screwing around with dimensional tech and powers, they could plausibly come up with a way to access the shards associated with the Butcher collective.
 
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Man it's been a while since this argument has started huh?……almost 3 whole days. Incredible


To reiterate, this "story" isn't really that, it's not a "normal story" or a normal work of "fanfiction".

A lot of you still don't get that this is a writing exercise. Something made by the author LordRoustabout to explore a previously unexplored variant of the writing tool known as the "jumpchain" called the "Celestial Forge".

This is more a record of how these powers would interact if given to a single person and how the world interacts to them in return.

It's a beautifully written account of the partially original character called "Joseph" who received this absolutely earthshattering power.

It's a work to explore his reactions to the powers, the reactions of those around him and the reactions of the world at large.
So of course there would be long flowery long winded explanations. Of course there would be a lot of emphasis on seemingly pointless actions, Because these actions have a huge impact on the world itself no matter how small it looks to us readers.
And to this work, that's what matters.

This is not a Worm story, it's a Celestial Forge writing exercise that just so happens to be set in the world of Worm.
 
I feel like people just don't like reading sometimes. The author has said several times that he writes the story for all those power descriptions, and everything else is just there to enable them. Since you can speedread most of those sections without missing anything and everything else is great, just assume every chapter is about a third shorter and you'll be fine. Unlike those power descriptions though, analyzing everyone else at the table is part of the plot. Joe really wants this meeting to go well (because of his doormat tendencies) and is doing everything he can to understand and predict their thoughts and actions. The part where he was holed up in the workshop doing nothing to move the overall plot forward for twenty chapters was terrible from a storytelling perspective because ninety percent was technobabble, but everything else since then was fine.
 
Joe: Well now that the teeth are here we-

Suddenly 9 individuals walk through the entrance "Jack is on the house baby!"

Joe: wait what, why are you here.

Jack: what? Most bad guys are here, of course we would show up.

Joe: Do the peace rules even apply to you-

Suddenly a wall exploded "It's us! Uber and leet! And we have this bomb thing with us and our main goal us to blow up and then act like we don't know nobody!"

Joe wanted to groan but got distracted as he felt a connection to the forge, which made Lisa groan in his place.

While Joe looked at nothing like an idiot and Uber and leet (who really wished he stayed home to play call of duty) started their evil speech, two girls entered the establishment.

"Wait this isn't a clothing store" said glory girl while floating around.

"What the hell made you think it was one?!?!" Exclaimed Amy beside her.

Vicky shrugged and then spotted survey and went to compliment her clothing, which somehow summoned Pariah.

Suddenly another wall exploded, right besides the hole in the wall and from the hole came armsmaster riddding his bike "Halt villains! You are all under arrest!" From behind him every single protectorate member showed up and even the wards were there.

Then everyone pointed and laughter at armaster, even the heroes laughted at him and he could swear he heard piggot laughting from somewhere.

He looked at the floor depressed and walked away dragging his halberd along.

Lisa finally stopped banging her head against her table and said "ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO SHOW UP?!?!"

There was a golden flash and suddenly Scion "...can I join you guys? I am very sad and alone right now." Then a door appeared out of nowhere and a woman with a comically large hat walked out and flipped off Scion "fuck off, commit no breathe"

Scion then went to a corner of the room and began to cry.

Joe finally stopped looking at nothing like an idiot "sorry I dose off a bit what did I miss?"

Of course, that's when lung crashed down from the ceiling.

"THERE ARE FUCKING WHALES ON SPACE"
 
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