Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

So this is a bit off-topic, I guess, but since Tattletale brings it up it is actually kind of relevant, I guess.

Can anyone remember what Coil's endgame with the Traveler's/Noelle actually was? I know they were relying on him for help to 'cure' her, and that he had intended on stringing them along as long as he could.... but in his intricate little plan to take over the bay, did he ever actually have a plan for dealing with a pissed off/unstoppable Noelle?
It was never outright stated in canon.
My personal head Canon is large magnesium blocks.

The heavily reinforced nature of the sub bunker was referenced several times, as well as some features of the door to it.
So headCanon is. That sub-bunker was an oven. When Noelle wasn't of use to control the travellers, Coil would ignite the magnesium, and burn the dangerous monster to ash.
 
"Thanks to the different nature of my connections I was still in contact with my passenger, but the data links of other passengers would be disrupted. Not enough to impact the powers of their hosts, but enough that data gathered would be useless, like it was being taken through a high blur filter. While it didn't solve the problem of what Aisha would do when she left, it took care of a much bigger concern than just an unguarded entrance."

See, it's exactly that part that get me thinking. After Aisha leaves the base (which is exactly what I said originally), her Shard has access to her memories, and knows she was being blocked, the memories and data recollected by the host, for example Tin Ti-Ti explaining that the power he got was infinite power, infinite energy. Quoting from the chapter:
- "Seriously? What's Spiral Energy do?" She asked, leaning forward.

- I smiled at the irony of this combination. "It gives you instant, unlimited, reality altering power…" Aisha's eyebrows shot up "providing you have complete and absolute confidence and determination, with no doubts whatsoever."

So after Aisha left his apartment, her Shard should have complete access to Aisha's memories, with all the details, and the Shard also knows, through Aisha, that Joe's powers do what he says they do. Specially since they all get Data desperate near him.

I light the Eden theory, after all Zion always was the "Dumb strong boyfriend", and it's possible that he is so depressed that even the absolute solution staring him in the face wouldn't get registered... The rest of the shards are too locked down to react, unless QA grows some ovaries...
 
So after Aisha left his apartment, her Shard should have complete access to Aisha's memories, with all the details, and the Shard also knows, through Aisha, that Joe's powers do what he says they do. Specially since they all get Data desperate near him.

The privacy curtain is Washu tech. Aisha's memories are probably encrypted forwards and backwards in time with trapdoor super-ciphers that make funny faces at you every time you think you've solved them.
 
If you are a person in a story then presumably you wouldn't be mindless text on the page. You would exist as a character in the mind of something/someone greater while they imagine what you would feel, think and do in a particular scenario.
Even if we go for the broadest definition of character, encompassing both the objective existence of text/visual art/etc and the subjective existence of author/reader impressions, we still aren't left with any characters that are actually people. So I think my point still stands.
 
Even if we go for the broadest definition of character, encompassing both the objective existence of text/visual art/etc and the subjective existence of author/reader impressions, we still aren't left with any characters that are actually people. So I think my point still stands.
Personally, I think you are overthinking it. Everyone is a character in at least one story. Most more than one.
Someone from outside the local universe, would see a blend of stories from a number of people, to blend perspectives. After all there are parts that are best viewed from other people, and parts of anyone's story are just dull.

So, what's your story?
 
LR, it's scary how well you write Lisa as a real, flawed person.

I was getting really annoyed by her secrecy and evasion in earlier chapters, but now I just pity her.

Lisa being terrified of being "Dinah'ed" only seems ridiculous when we are viewing Apeiron from his viewpoint, with our knowledge. Rereading the healing scene, yeah, I could see how she would get freaked out. Didn't she pick up Joe's off-the-cuff idea to put Taylor in chrono-stasis? The same guy that accepted tissue samples as payment? Given Lisa's life experience and age, and "earth-bet-ness", Lisa not being terrified would be more surprising, in my opinion.

A scared girl relying on her Machiavellian manipulation skills because that's all that's ever given her success, meets someone who is powerful enough to just upend the table you spent time setting.

I can only hope that Joe notices Lisa's clear, genuine distress, and tries to de-stress the undersiders. I think Joe still doesn't understand how he is externally perceived, given his companions either know him outside of costume (Aisha) or think things are normal, since that's all they have ever known, aka the rest of the crew.

Humbled Lisa is fun to read, Lisa breaking down from a perceived damocles sword, not so much. Give the poor girl a Apeiron-grade therapy watch-module, and a elven everfull mug of perfect painkilling hot chocolate, and let her know sometimes things aren't actually traps.
 
See, it's exactly that part that get me thinking. After Aisha leaves the base (which is exactly what I said originally), her Shard has access to her memories, and knows she was being blocked, the memories and data recollected by the host, for example Tin Ti-Ti explaining that the power he got was infinite power, infinite energy. Quoting from the chapter:


So after Aisha left his apartment, her Shard should have complete access to Aisha's memories, with all the details, and the Shard also knows, through Aisha, that Joe's powers do what he says they do. Specially since they all get Data desperate near him.

I light the Eden theory, after all Zion always was the "Dumb strong boyfriend", and it's possible that he is so depressed that even the absolute solution staring him in the face wouldn't get registered... The rest of the shards are too locked down to react, unless QA grows some ovaries...

Or, because the shards only perceive the world in terms they can understand rather than relying on human input plus the scrambling effects of Joe's security, her fragment cannot understand or realize that what she was just told is TRUE.... But then again, they also didn't realize that they could potentially generate infinite energy by creating a pocket universe that has radically different physical laws within and harvest the outflow... Unless that was what the Ash Beast's shard did but the Entities were too stupid to realize it.
 
Last edited:
Can anyone remember what Coil's endgame with the Traveler's/Noelle actually was? I know they were relying on him for help to 'cure' her, and that he had intended on stringing them along as long as he could.... but in his intricate little plan to take over the bay, did he ever actually have a plan for dealing with a pissed off/unstoppable Noelle?
I think it went something like...
Coil develops a cure for Echidna, and... no, I'm just kidding. When everything is lined up and the PRT is strained to breaking, Coil engineers for hired mercenary capes to attack his own complex and free her, leaving Coil 'injured' and out of the picture while everything else unfolds. Echidna attacks the city, people band together to fight her, and it serves much the same role as Leviathan did, but it's controlled destruction, engineered by Coil. In the aftermath, Piggot is accused of failing in her duties, and Calvert takes over a relatively strong PRT Department. Brockton Bay stabilizes, flourishing in cape population, and the rogue elements are systematically stamped out.

From the Traveller's perspective, Coil did everything he could, so I'm guessing either they keep working for him for money/out of gratitude, or leave for greener pastures on good terms.

I'm wondering what Fleet would even do if he went evil A.I. mode. I mean, Survey went full surveillance state, Matrix went gray goo, but I can really only see Fleet as just installing himself on every vehicle ever and going "I am going to drive you to the grocery store and you are darn well going to like it."
Hmmm, well he is Fleet Management Program. So I guess police state? Micromanage everyone to the tiniest details and such.
Stations of canon are deader than disco.
I'd say they went sideways after the bank heist.
 
Or, because the shards only perceive the world in terms they can understand rather than relying on human input plus the scrambling effects of Joe's security, her fragment cannot understand or realize that what she was just told is TRUE.... But then again, they also didn't realize that they could potentially generate infinite energy by creating a pocket universe that has radically different physical laws within and harvest the outflow... Unless that was what the Ash Beast's shard did but the Entities were too stupid to realize it.

There is literally no reason to think that the Entities can create universes for a net gain of power.
 
There is literally no reason to think that the Entities can create universes for a net gain of power.

As much as I hate how Ward was literally a giant middle finger to the fandom, It is apparently canon that the solution to Entropy was in the hands of the Entities already and they didn't understand it, given the fact that it is going to be a bargaining chip if more Entities show up. Mind you, Entropy was only part of the problem for the Entities... once they figure that out they will probably redo the same thing they did to their homeworld, breed till there is no more room and descend on each other in an orgy of violence, just on a much larger scale.
 
See, it's exactly that part that get me thinking. After Aisha leaves the base (which is exactly what I said originally), her Shard has access to her memories, and knows she was being blocked, the memories and data recollected by the host, for example Tin Ti-Ti explaining that the power he got was infinite power, infinite energy. Quoting from the chapter:


So after Aisha left his apartment, her Shard should have complete access to Aisha's memories, with all the details, and the Shard also knows, through Aisha, that Joe's powers do what he says they do. Specially since they all get Data desperate near him.

I light the Eden theory, after all Zion always was the "Dumb strong boyfriend", and it's possible that he is so depressed that even the absolute solution staring him in the face wouldn't get registered... The rest of the shards are too locked down to react, unless QA grows some ovaries...
Shards don't speak English though. They can barely comprehend things even slightly outside of the scope of their speciality and even that requires something akin to reproduction to pull off.
 
I thought that perk was working via fiat and fiat works on shards. So even Negotiator is just like "it's a cat, okay here are the juicy details." The debate over parahuman cat vs para cat is probably the same level of detail that Lisa has to stop, see her forcefully ignoring Apeiron's hair styling.

Yeah, but the fact a CAT is a parahuman is not superficial, shards connect to humans, not cats, so the fact the cat has powers IS a big deal, yet Lissa does not know that so she sees nothing wrong with the para at while Negotiator is freaking out.
 
Yeah, but the fact a CAT is a parahuman is not superficial, shards connect to humans, not cats, so the fact the cat has powers IS a big deal, yet Lissa does not know that so she sees nothing wrong with the para at while Negotiator is freaking out.
Well Negotiator would only freak out if the Fiat backed power that makes him seem normal and forces everyone to judge him based on his actions instead of his appearance didn't work on Shards. Except if it is Fiat backed meaning the Negotiator shouldn't be able to see a problem with him being a cat.
 
Can anyone remember what Coil's endgame with the Traveler's/Noelle actually was? I know they were relying on him for help to 'cure' her, and that he had intended on stringing them along as long as he could.... but in his intricate little plan to take over the bay, did he ever actually have a plan for dealing with a pissed off/unstoppable Noelle?
As I recall he intended to actually follow through on healing her if he could work it, but didn't actually have anything.
 
As I recall he intended to actually follow through on healing her if he could work it, but didn't actually have anything.
I think his plan was to arrange for a cure, then string them along for as much as possible before administering it.

Potentially forever unless they forced his hand.
Then he failed at acquiring a cure and went for Plan B.
 
Coil was a schemer. If he could deliver on the promise, without too much expense ( read over extending himself, in his own risk averse reckoning), then so much so good.
If not he was certainly going to have a way of disposing of the loose end before it came back to bite him.
The "well, I tried " would only have been for if that failed, and he was forced to "rewind". Setting up for it would be as simple as having her poked occasionally with a syringe on a stick...
 
Hmmm, So I wonder who/what Survey is gonna be mistaken for? Considering the rumors about Apeiron's powerful healing tech + supposed costs I wonder if Uppercrust will come to same conclusion? Probably make him more intensely driven in order to get healed.

Y'know, it just dawned on me that this is probably going to lend a lot more to Apherion's supposed abilities to heal case 53s.

Actually, if this isn't a spoiler, does anyone know when Apherion's team will be revealed to the wider world? Cause I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the PRT and the PHO's response to them.
 
Y'know, it just dawned on me that this is probably going to lend a lot more to Apherion's supposed abilities to heal case 53s.

Actually, if this isn't a spoiler, does anyone know when Apherion's team will be revealed to the wider world? Cause I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the PRT and the PHO's response to them.
PHO: "Please keep them in Brockton Bay. For the sake of our sanity."
Local PRT: after brief period of denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and lastly acceptance "It's amusing that anyone thinks we have any control over what his group does. Or that the rest of the world is safe just because they remain in Brockton."
 
No, see, in this case you still imagine yourself as an entity with a will separate from that of your author and readers. You are thus able to make choices which influence the story from within the story.

But if "you" are actually just a story then you have no will or agency; you're just the mindless text on a page which is the best effort of an author to be pretentiously meta.

And if you are a real person and an author is manipulating your every action like you're a puppet in order to fit a plot, then the disturbing part of the situation is that authors apparently have reality warping mind control powers over other universes, not that you're "fictional."

(I get the feeling I'm taking a lighthearted joke a bit too seriously with this response, but I'm still posting it.)
To me there is no difference between believing a God created the universe and a writer, I'm still myself and real. And the canon would just be the Tapestry of Fate and some people take comfort in this belief.
 
There's a couple things I've noticed that everyone else seems to have been glossing over are these little bits in the Tinker notes and power notes.

After this jump any powers are now part of you instead of your shard/passenger, and its connection is severed completely. All other shard limitations are released, even if you stay, letting Tinkers mass produce their tech, precogs see the Entities and Endbringers, etc. This doesn't enhance your power, only removes things like the Manton Limit that held it back before. The same applies to your companions and anyone you bring with you.

So, what's everyone else thinking about Aisha now? Or, heck, if we're being generous here, the Undersiders in general? It doesn't specify Followers or anything like that, just 'anyone you bring with you,' which is... incredibly broad. Throwing confusion into the mix is that Joe... technically is still within the Worm jump, and cannot move on, or anything of the sort - yet this is specifically a post-jump effect. It brings into question whether or not it'd apply at all, what the criteria are, etc.

Is every Parahuman that ends up allied with Joe going to get spiffy new Manton Limitless Inherent Powers? I know that'd cause quite a bit of commotion amongst people in the know, if it were discovered, and even with divination disruption, that seems like it'd make waves in shardspace, which could certainly have repercussions given he's actively creating a grey goo base there.

It'd also mean fascinating interactions between Cauldron and Apeiron. God knows they'd probably be trying to break out their best Thinkers that still work if they wanted to approach him, and finding out what he does to Shards would be promising. The next Endbringer fight is liable to be fascinating, as well - and result in an interesting interaction between the In The Know Cauldron members and Apeiron, once all's said and done, assuming they can catch Joe at a private moment.

Tinker abilities give you an insanely large and advanced database of scientific knowledge and superhuman skill at employing it, all within their specialty. Your power will always mean that within this field you'll learn, innovate, and improve in superhuman ways, growing beyond what you start with.

As if Joe needed his skills to grow over time even more than normal, there's this. Joe's skills in everything Efficiency and Miniaturization cover just got Heretical Adaptation'd. Not sure how many other boosts he's gotten that ensure future growth of technical skills in distinctly superhuman ways even once the Forge has run out of surprises, other than stuff that'd just do something like boost intelligence. Spiral's inherent nature makes me wonder if it could do something similar - no limits, and all - but I don't know enough about the source material there to say for certain.

All in all, fun power get!
 
PRT INTERNAL THREAT ASSESSMENT: APEIRON (Subrosian_Smithy)
Joe had a loyal, supportive team behind him.

As if he wasn't overpowered enough already.

PRT INTERNAL THREAT ASSESSMENT: APEIRON
See also: Case 53, Case 69, Case 72, Case 74

Overview/Primary Classification:

  • Tinker 11 - Unconfirmed "Mad Scientist" primary methodology. Tinker specialization should be treated as irrelevant, with known manifestations in kinetic and energy weapons, multipurpose mechanisms, biomodification, semiautonomous robotics, advanced chemistry, exotic fields, and more. Presents standard Tinker complications (force multiplication, variation in equipment over time) seemingly without commensurate weaknesses (time constraints, vulnerability to asset denial). Respond or approach with multiple parahuman strike teams, Triumvirate, if necessary; Tinkers must engage from a distance to prevent the subject from acquiring new study material in the field.
  • Trump 9 - Possesses technology or totem objects capable of altering the expression of parahuman powers on a lasting basis, with unclear limitations and mechanisms of action. Parahuman operatives in the field must be prepared to disengage on a moment's notice, and must engage from a distance wherever reasonable.
  • Brute/Mover 7 - Presents with apparent integrated Tinker technology granting total bodily regeneration, as well as as vastly heightened strength, resilience, and mobility. Annihilator-class parahumans should be deployed in any elimination attempts, and their abilities directed to the total destruction of the subject's head and torso.
  • Stranger 9 - Possesses unknown technologies or secondary power manifestations capable of maximizing aesthetic responses, manipulating word association pathways, and establishing lasting memetic effects. Operatives engaged with the subject in the field can anticipate the erosion of their focus through increasingly aggressive superstimuli, if not the redirection of their attention through classical thought injection.
  • Master 15 - Subject has loving and supportive friends.
 
Last edited:
  • Master 15 - Subject has friends.
Hahaha, "Hey so.. I heard Aperion has.. I can't believe this" looks at document, clears throat "he... he has friends?" he notices a gleam enter his superiors eyes as he finishes before he can even ask the document is snatched out of his hands and his superior his filling out the section which he knows is for master's specifically for human master's.
Man I can just see the way that would play out.
 
Back
Top