Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

But does anyone in the Bay have a specific reason to send Aperion after the Nine?
Very likely since we are assuming these are real people in relatively modern day with real connections to people that live more that 10 miles from where they live.
2. What was the payment?
irrelevant since Joe has not disclosed any payment hes received for anything.
Because they are a seemingly unstoppable murderhobo group...also Joe has no reason to give his client's reasoning.
4. If Aperion could find the notoriously elusive Nine so easily does this mean he can find and hit anyone at any time?
Given what Survey was shown to do and given that Survey works with the Celestial Forge who are acknowledged bullshit artists, they should already be assuming this.
Even if he only hits villainous targets that's going to put a lot of villains into panic mode since all they know is at anytime their enemies could contract Aperion to take them out.
Thank you for being at least mildly less obtuse than the other guy by only conflating possibly the worst group of parahumans on the continent with all other villains. The point is still invalidated by comparing them to Johnny Sticky-Fingers with the power to run good and penchant for stealing candy bars.
5. If Aperion could be coming at you at anytime how do you stop him?
With the grit and determination of someone who thinks "yeah I can take them. All the stories are bullshit." Also let me remind you of Lung and the ABB and what Joe did to them. That is both an object lesson in the futility in confronting the CF and how Joe is not immortal and unstoppable as he can be made to bleed.
 
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Nobody is a threat to the Forge

Scion is the threat, I mean, it's his fucking job to defend the cycle against Outside Context Problems. Assuming he care enough to put up a fight.

The Endbringers... probably can't meaningfully damage members of the Forge, but I'm not sure the Forge can deal with them without wiping humanity, so let's call it even.

The very big players like Contessa, the Triumvirate, and Sleeper might be speedbump.

In comparison, the Dragonslayers would be splattered as soon as Joe look funnily at them.

That would still cause a large amount of panic because it suggest that Apeiron can be paid to act as a hit squad which would not be calming to a lot of people. the fact that the CF could deploy at any second because someone managed to get a contract with them is fucking scary. you have to understand from the POV from people in the world the only thing that keeps people from stressing about CF is that they don't do anything until you fuck with them.

the biggest problem is the statement of "someone paid me" is going to be under scrutiny and analyses of every thinker under the sun and if they detect that he is lying then the brittle illusion that CF is a passive reactive force is shattered. Joe doesn't what to risk lying to every thinker in the planet because it only takes a few for there to be panic. thats not even considering how it would raises the questions of who paid him and how did they pay for it?

Apeiron is a mercenary. Mercenaries accept contracts. Nothing new under the sun. In fact that liberty to justify anything with the magic word "contract" is why Joe pretend to be a mercenary in the first place.

Obviously this would stress a lot of people, but it's not new stress.

Through Joe would need to update his antiprecog, yes, the same way his antiprecog says he would go after March if he ever heard she's alive.

This will raise several questions.

Apeiron never give any informations about his contracts. He was even very explicit about this when he talked to the PRT. It might raise questions, but everyone know they won't get answers.

Just to be clear : I don't believe Joe will go the contract route. There's nothing inherently impossible about pretending it came from a contract, but... there's no significant benefit to killing the S9 today instead of tomorrow, so why show your hand ? It's not like the S9 can get away.
 
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don't know if this was mention before but Joe wrongly thinks Dragon is master thanks to his 'thinker power'.

when he come across the triumvirate he will most likely find out they are responsible for the case 53's. combine that with Eidolon connection with the Endbringers and if he finds out about Alexandria being the leader of the PRT Joe will most likely come to believe they are controlling and using the Endbringers for there own means. maybe even think the reason Leviathan attack brockton to force him to work with the hero's under the Endbringer truce so they can study his tec.
 
Apeiron is a mercenary. Mercenaries accept contracts. Nothing new under the sun. In fact that liberty to justify anything with the magic word "contract" is why Joe pretend to be a mercenary in the first place.

Obviously this would stress a lot of people, but it's not new stress.

Through Joe would need to update his antiprecog, yes, the same way his antiprecog says he would go after March if he ever heard she's alive.
Right now, everybody thinks that, as long as nobody goes out of their way to provoke him, Apeiron and the Forge will remain confined to Brockton Bay. If he violates that perception, no matter what the justification he gives, then people will panic.
 
Right now, everybody thinks that, as long as nobody goes out of their way to provoke him, Apeiron and the Forge will remain confined to Brockton Bay. If he violates that perception, no matter what the justification he gives, then people will panic.
Then "everyone" is an idiot whose opinions should be discarded.
 
Then "everyone" is an idiot whose opinions should be discarded.
I think you fail to realize that Joe is basically waiting until tomorrow morning. This might be many months for us but for Joe it's an incredibly short amount of time. He's also just being overly cautious Joe, as he's been for most of the story. Of course he's going to massively over complicate it and over prepare, that's his entire thing. While he might, and that's a big might, get away with alpha striking the 9 literally the distance between Spain and Poland away and within the territory of one of the most important capes in the world. Why would he risk that? It's not like the 9 are doing any harm currently. He can wait until morning, or maybe the next day, and then delete the 9 with no one batting an eye lash. Of course Joe, he who over prepares for everything, is going to take this course of action.
 
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Then "everyone" is an idiot whose opinions should be discarded.
And disregarding their opinions will prevent their panicked flailing from hurting innocent people how? Because, whatever your option of their intelligence, 'everyone' here includes the PRT as a whole, the Protectorate as a whole, the Guild, and the US government, just to start with
 
The only other way to contact him would be through his website which is only available in the Bay area. But does anyone in the Bay have a specific reason to send Aperion after the Nine?
The S9 have been to Brockton Bay in the past. Presumably some people were given reasons to not be fans at that time.
 
the fact that this not only seem plausible to do but even practical is hilarious. not only could he build 2 replicas easy but to mass teleport the entire city and it's population in the blink of an eye so that no one notices what happens and continue to walk about their day as joe spends between 1 to 5 minutes to clown leviathan (or 6-30 seconds for everyone in fake bb) and then put everyone back again with no one the wiser.

Absolute gold

Yeah, that's an option too. Or just let them loose on the job market…
"GREETINGS CIVILIAN EMPLOYEE! THIS TITAN HAS BEEN INSTRUCTED TO SECURE EMPLOYMENT AND ADVISED THAT THIS OFFICE WILL BE ABLE TO FACILITATE THIS!"
"Er… hi? Uh… what sort of job did you want?"
"THIS TITAN UNDERSTANDS THAT DEMOLITION IS A LEGITIMATE JOB CATEGORY?"
"Oookayy, I can see where you might be quite good at that yes, but it's a specialised role with a lot of regulations that we can't get for you. Er, how about we start you with some construction work? See what it is you'd be pulling down and all, while you go to night college to get the relevant qualifications?"
"THAT IS NOT IDEAL BUT THIS TITAN ACKNOWLEDGES THE LIMITATIONS OF YOUR POSITION AND APPRECIATES THE THOUGHTFUL ADVICE. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?"
"Well, you need to look at the job boards under "construction and I will have a look for night schools with particularly high ceilings."
"VERY GOOD. THIS TITAN WILL RETURN MOMENTARILY."
"What a nice robot. And so quiet too."


You may have forgotten but he already has a Transformers colony ship/deployable city in the garage somewhere. No need to even build something new; just push the button on that.

The CF has good forgery skills, but the only fiat-backed licensing is for vehicle operation.
Demolition vehicle, wrecking ball driver license? Does the Titan count as a vehicle? in the same vein as Garment, vehicles can also be people.
nah the point is that he can literally teleport the entire city with every single living thing being none the wiser into the workshop while replacing the space removed with a replica have a fight in that replica with the enemy he leaves behind, beat them and then put everything back where it should be with literally no one even realizing what happened including velocity at max perception
Regarding the possibility of BB reconstruction, with the nano forge he can reconstruct the entire city in less than a second either in a remote location or his workshop. Now he just needs a robust infrastructure for droid replacement deployment.
 
The problem with the Fake Brockton Bay plan in Joe's Workshop is that it'll most likely tear apart Joe's Wushu-level security curtain. At that point, it'll open the entire Workshop for postcog and all that even before you get into the "catastrophic failure" that is said to come about the failure of anything that comes out of Super Scientific Solution.

So I propose an alternative. Joe can easily open doors into parallel Earths. He just had not gotten any reason to actually make them. Why not just make the Fake Brockton Bay in one of those, and then use that as an evacuation plan? If the issue is the creation being detected, Joe can probably also just make another security curtain for that area that he won't mind failing when the fake city is used for evacuation purposes.
 
Yeah, that's an option too. Or just let them loose on the job market…
"GREETINGS CIVILIAN EMPLOYEE! THIS TITAN HAS BEEN INSTRUCTED TO SECURE EMPLOYMENT AND ADVISED THAT THIS OFFICE WILL BE ABLE TO FACILITATE THIS!"
"Er… hi? Uh… what sort of job did you want?"
"THIS TITAN UNDERSTANDS THAT DEMOLITION IS A LEGITIMATE JOB CATEGORY?"
"Oookayy, I can see where you might be quite good at that yes, but it's a specialised role with a lot of regulations that we can't get for you. Er, how about we start you with some construction work? See what it is you'd be pulling down and all, while you go to night college to get the relevant qualifications?"
"THAT IS NOT IDEAL BUT THIS TITAN ACKNOWLEDGES THE LIMITATIONS OF YOUR POSITION AND APPRECIATES THE THOUGHTFUL ADVICE. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?"
"Well, you need to look at the job boards under "construction and I will have a look for night schools with particularly high ceilings."
"VERY GOOD. THIS TITAN WILL RETURN MOMENTARILY."
"What a nice robot. And so quiet too."


You may have forgotten but he already has a Transformers colony ship/deployable city in the garage somewhere. No need to even build something new; just push the button on that.
Joe would have to get the titan to accept one of them as it's city speaker. Otherwise it'll just sit there in sleep mode.
 
So I propose an alternative. Joe can easily open doors into parallel Earths. He just had not gotten any reason to actually make them. Why not just make the Fake Brockton Bay in one of those, and then use that as an evacuation plan? If the issue is the creation being detected, Joe can probably also just make another security curtain for that area that he won't mind failing when the fake city is used for evacuation purposes.
problem is what would happened after if anyone figured out they were in a different world free of endbringers. country's were be trying everything they can to get a uninhabited endbringer-free world. the case 53 problem is bad and will be worse when some of them get inpatient and try something desperate to get Joe's attention like blowing up brockton
 
How? I don't know of any method, but he has enough different tech bases that I could easily have overlooked one.
Mostly the teleportation techbases. Joe has mentioned being able to adapt either the Totally Spies! tech or the Transformers tech into opening into other worlds, and there are also magical options that Joe can use to open gateways. It's just that the usual reasons as to why you would want to open such a portal are a non-issue - he already has a dimension of his own to work with, and it's more secure than any parallel Earth that the passengers could still observe. By the time it became an option it was already an inferior one to what he already had.
the case 53 problem is bad and will be worse when some of them get inpatient and try something desperate to get Joe's attention like blowing up brockton
:???:

I'm not sure where you got the blowing up Brockton from, given that Apeiron has publicly made it very clear that he wants Brockton Bay functioning and with its people safe. Even if you're desperate to get Apeiron's attention, if you want to be on his good side it wouldn't even be on the list of options. If anything, it's more likely that they'll publicly claim to protect Brockton Bay.

As for whether people would want to move to other worlds entirely, that's not my problem - I wasn't the one that suggested the evacuation anyway, I just pointed out a more reasonable option than letting thousands of people into Joe's most protected and private base. Given Uppercrust has been stated to would have difficulty in even getting to see the Workshop, Joe would most certainly only use the Workshop in such a way if there was really no other option available, like every parallel Earth destroyed in Golden Morning.
 
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The Empire was currently mounting up for the first major cape offensive since the Ungodly Hour. Dragon was ready to intercept them, and the Dragonslayers were ready to intercept her.
... yeah, remind me again Saint how fighting nazis is Evil AI behavior?
do you really wanna be the people that helped the nazis? even indirectly?
 
Scion is the threat, I mean, it's his fucking job to defend the cycle against Outside Context Problems. Assuming he care enough to put up a fight.

The Endbringers... probably can't meaningfully damage members of the Forge, but I'm not sure the Forge can deal with them without wiping humanity, so let's call it even.

The very big players like Contessa, the Triumvirate, and Sleeper might be speedbump.

In comparison, the Dragonslayers would be splattered as soon as Joe look funnily at them.

Threats to Joe are only Scion and the Gurren Lagann anti spiral scenario getting triggered.

The endbringers aren't an issue simply because they already aren't. When Tybalt was rolled he could stalemate levi solo while naked. Since then he's gotten his gear which has even been upgraded, more perks and things like aura. Levi's toolkit is also extremely basic basically being physical atks and water manipulation and way back at the Weld rescue Joe had water controlling sabers. Endbringers also don't sense things normally but through their powers which is water in Levi's case so Tybalt can beat Levi up while the others use them to keep water away from the battlefield and counter any tidal waves. Ziz is similarly neutered by the anti precog devices and Joe having ocp in addition to things like the applications of Weld's selective manton limit and Joe's tech sensing and controlling powers. Behemoth is trickier but still a non issue due to the simple fact one of them can't atk for more than 2 more weeks and the next one 3 months after that, even longer if they get a kill which they do have options for like stygian iron.

Future endbringers would gain counters to stop them being destroyed in the same way such as the canon forcefields between layers but they still can't appear for 3 and a half months at the earliest which gives the forge plenty of time to develop possibly even to the point of just shutting them down through shardspace to say nothing of possible effects on the whole you needed worthy opponents thing.

Contessa is also countered by the anti precog measures. Sleeper is fairly unknown but got intimidated into leaving because Legend wiped out a block. The Triumvirate are also probably a non issue Legend is a lot weaker than people realise because he is a glass canon his only defence is slipping into the breaker state to heal after he is hit which also uses a portion of the atk to heal him but Legend is very weak to big hits trapping him in it for ages. Alexandria shouldn't be able to destroy Joe's creations and the forge does have counters to her both possible ones like Tetra but also just things like soul targeting, divine powers or March's version of sting.

Eidolon can be handled because he only gets 3 powers which slowly grow in due to his shard running out of power which has also caused the big powers he calls on to fight things like endbringers to weaken. Most notably his reaction times and speed are at base human lvs usually only boosted by a flight power which puts him at a strong disadvantage against the forge members if it came to it though Joe could always use countercraft on any atk he makes.
 
The problem with the Fake Brockton Bay plan in Joe's Workshop is that it'll most likely tear apart Joe's Wushu-level security curtain. At that point, it'll open the entire Workshop for postcog and all that even before you get into the "catastrophic failure" that is said to come about the failure of anything that comes out of Super Scientific Solution.

So I propose an alternative. Joe can easily open doors into parallel Earths. He just had not gotten any reason to actually make them. Why not just make the Fake Brockton Bay in one of those, and then use that as an evacuation plan? If the issue is the creation being detected, Joe can probably also just make another security curtain for that area that he won't mind failing when the fake city is used for evacuation purposes.
Scan and reconstruct instead, can do so for whole world when he gets the next upgrade?
 
The endbringers aren't an issue simply because they already aren't. When Tybalt was rolled he could stalemate levi solo while naked.

The problem isn't surviving the Endbringers, it's killing them. The magic shortcut (like HP killing curse) is closed due to the magic-parahuman equivalence, and destroying the core through physical force is impossible without destroying Earth.


Aperion publicly stated he wasn't taking contracts. (Technically a Lie considering he makes one with Uppercrust.) But the general public and anyone not Uppercrust or in his circle believe Aperion is not making contracts currently.

It was, what, a week ago ?
 
Temporal Controls (Personal Reality) 200:
This Personal Reality Option gives you control over how fast time flows in your Personal Reality while you're not there. The default is 1:1, but with this you can dial it anywhere from 1:10 to 10:1. Remember, this doesn't work when you're in the warehouse.
I presume that last word should be workshop.

For some reason, it only worked when I was outside my workshop, meaning that my duplicates could make use of it, as could the rest of the team, but I was specifically excluded.
I mean it not like staying out of his workshop would stop him from tinkering. He could just find a place to build a new workshop, if he wanted to. It would take him what 10-20 seconds. All things considered it might actually be just as good as his workshop, in some ways, because he built it more recently. Would be a fun, 'let's see how far I can go' activity. Would have to start with a foundation of anti-thinker work of course.

Kicking someone out of the house to go play does not work as well when they can rebuild their room outside as soon as you turn around.

Alternatively, he could use one of those claw grabbers things to tinker while standing outside the workshop.
 
I presume that last word should be workshop.


I mean it not like staying out of his workshop would stop him from tinkering. He could just find a place to build a new workshop, if he wanted to. It would take him what 10-20 seconds. All things considered it might actually be just as good as his workshop, in some ways, because he built it more recently. Would be a fun, 'let's see how far I can go' activity. Would have to start with a foundation of anti-thinker work of course.

Kicking someone out of the house to go play does not work as well when they can rebuild their room outside as soon as you turn around.

Alternatively, he could use one of those claw grabbers things to tinker while standing outside the workshop.
Eh, there's a bunch of specific effects he gets from it being "The" Workshop rather than whatever he builds.

The volcano forge and the automatic item repairs are the first things that come to mind.

Building something with access to the Workshop is always going to be better for Joe than what he can make outside of it (though, by anyone elses standards, he can make world changing technology with whatever he has in his pockets at the time)
 
I presume that last word should be workshop.


I mean it not like staying out of his workshop would stop him from tinkering. He could just find a place to build a new workshop, if he wanted to. It would take him what 10-20 seconds. All things considered it might actually be just as good as his workshop, in some ways, because he built it more recently. Would be a fun, 'let's see how far I can go' activity. Would have to start with a foundation of anti-thinker work of course.

Kicking someone out of the house to go play does not work as well when they can rebuild their room outside as soon as you turn around.

Alternatively, he could use one of those claw grabbers things to tinker while standing outside the workshop.

Eh, there's a bunch of specific effects he gets from it being "The" Workshop rather than whatever he builds.

The volcano forge and the automatic item repairs are the first things that come to mind.

Building something with access to the Workshop is always going to be better for Joe than what he can make outside of it (though, by anyone elses standards, he can make world changing technology with whatever he has in his pockets at the time)
His noble Phantasm allows him to build stuff in his workshop without being in his workshop. Also, he can pay the cost with his hair and has infinite hair.
 
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