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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Alright, that cliffhanger made me do a cartoon NOOOOOOE!! in my head...

Anyway, once I got that out of my system I went over the chapter again and noted that there were lots of new information and as promised a look at the wider world, plus the structure of the PRT and the Protectorate.

Love the character building of Chubster - apparently he knows the power of the dad-joke... :D

Interesting to see Apeiron's anti-thinker effects in action. People recognizing his fighting style as weaponized tai-chi, which Chubster specializes in, was a nice detail. The fact that Ben has trained away his freeze-or-run reflex kind of highlights that the man got nerves of steel - fitting for an s-class responder.

Bakuda has apparently made contact with the PRT and offered to negotiate about hostages. When did that happen? I can't seem to remember if it ever came up in the actual text, even if I think Leet thought about it in his last interlude. Do we know anything about what she said/offered/demanded? Beyond releasing some people as mentioned in this chapter.
 
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LordRoustabout said:
He let out a slow breath as Charley's concerns fell into place. "Probably not." It wasn't the answer she was looking for, but it was the best he could give. "They didn't declare an S-Class threat for the Ungodly Hour, and retroactively changing that won't trigger a deployment. From everything I've heard things are largely settled."
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LordRoustabout said:
That was true for the most part, but it would be hell for the local offices and the PRT as a whole. Bakuda has sent out a message that morning to both the PRT and various news agencies, officially opening negotiations. She even had a goodwill offer, ten hostages that could be released without retribution from her.

It sounded massive, but really just brought national attention back to an aspect of the disaster that people were doing their best to downplay. The ten people she was offering to release was barely more than one percent of the total being held. Seven hundred and eighty four in the 'holding camp' set up in one of Brockton Bay's parks, and an unknown number who were suspected to be hiding in the city's blackout area.

Bakuda had shined a spotlight onto a glaring problem with no solution that anyone wanted to entertain. The idea that they wouldn't take her up on the offer was unthinkable, but that meant selection and then pressure to secure more releases. Really, it was the most basic aspect of hostage taking, but it seemed it only took a shred of basic competence to upset the stage in that city.
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LordRoustabout said:
Outside the city it was hard to really appreciate what was happening. They were so extreme, and so widely publicized that the scope tended to get lost in the media coverage. He's seen the shock at the severity of the situation give way to a kind of tired acceptance that Brockton Bay just was that kind of place. That the craziness was normal for them, and thus nothing anyone should get worked up about.
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Am I the only one noticing things like this where peoples reactions are remarked to have been different or had a different impact then they would normally have been because of little things like when they happened?
 
readerdreamer said:
With OCP, the result is straightforward - if a shard tries to precog you (except for Coil), they get a 404 error. Blank is a much stronger perk that comes in tie
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Wrong!
"Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's precog doesn't seem to be able to pick you up, instead returning a zero-sum error whenever they try to force the issue."
Zero sum error is the opposite of straightforward and of 404. It's a misdirection and 'bias', it's more valid to call it a mistake in an equation. Apeiron will slip under the radar, because everything else will be the cause, but not him.

Basically if you ask a precog 'will there be an EMI field over BB?' Instead of saying 'Apeiron's damaged robot will cause an EMI field' it will answer 'Lung will damage a device causing a particle field to be released'. It basically will shift attention from Apeiron making him seemingly unimportant to the upcoming event.

Edit: Can be very fun if powers literally provided their users with a 'zero-sum error' message, but the intent of the perk seem to be to slip under the radar, not be a Christmas tree to every precog that asks (which will happen at first pass by watchdog)
 
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LuxPurplishGreen said:
Bakuda has apparently made contact with the PRT and offered to negotiate about hostages. When did that happen? I can't seem to remember if it ever came up in the actual text, even if I think Leet thought about it in his last interlude. Do we know anything about what she said/offered/demanded? Beyond releasing some people as mentioned in this chapter.
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As you mentioned, in the previous Leet interlude, he convinced Bakuda to give some degree of clemency as to force the Protectorate to follow her lead. No communication = no demands = the Protectorate is left free on their own devices on what to do with Bakuda, and with what she has done, the gloves are certainly off on that front. That was why Leet convinced her to release a few hostages - to leave the Protectorate with their hands tied while Bakuda has more time to decide what she wants to do.

And it was certainly effective. By providing some degree of clemency, the Protectorate are forced to wait for her public demands instead of just acting immediately. Ben points out in this interlude that it was the most competent thing Bakuda has done so far - which is a low bar, and funnily enough, not even her idea. I wonder what people would think if they found out that it was Leet who essentially turned this from a vague sense of doom into a "simple" hostage taking?
andreykl said:
Wrong!
"Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's precog doesn't seem to be able to pick you up, instead returning a zero-sum error whenever they try to force the issue."
Zero sum error is the opposite of straightforward and 404. It a misdirection and 'bias'.

Basically if you ask a precog 'will there be an EMI field over BB?' Instead of saying 'Apeiron's damaged robot will cause an EMI field' it will answer 'Lung will damage a device causing a particle field to be released'. It basically will shift attention from Apeiron making him seemingly unimportant to the upcoming event.
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Except it is? It's in LordRoustabout's WoG, heck the very chapter Joe got it he described OCP's effects. There is no such misdirection to OCP. It is just a pure block - which makes it easier for Joe's anti-precog charms to do their work of misleading people to assume that Apeiron and team would remain passive.

If anything, if Joe didn't get Item Construction beforehand, it's likely that OCP would've done far more damage than it would have helped. Countless precogs already had their eye on Apeiron, Cauldron and Simurgh included as per WoG. OCP's pure block would have raised alarms among these precogs almost immediately.

Here's the WoG links: About the block. About the panic. Honestly I am almost impressed with how sure you were to contradict me when I haven't heard anything like what you've described. Even Joe's anti-precog charms don't mislead or misdirect his role in future events as you've described, they just outright gave different results of a more passive version of Joe instead of making him unimportant.
 
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readerdreamer said:
Here's the WoG links: About the block. About the panic. Honestly I am almost impressed with how sure you were to contradict me when I haven't heard anything like what you've described.
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Nothing in there says that it's a Hard block, just that people will notice the difference. There will be a noticeable 'cut off' of info due to perk redirecting queries, it does not mean an outright block. Check definition of zero-sum error, I merely tried to explain how zero sum works.
 
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KillerFish said:
Lastly, I just threw my hands up and concluded LordRoustabout either subtly trolled everyone, we have a rare true coincidence, or we've discovered the source of his naming power!
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Maybe this is a foreshadowing to getting "Cybertonian Forge" in the next Joe chapter, and cybertronian body with it. One can only hope.
Utterly Depraved said:
Am I the only one noticing things like this where peoples reactions are remarked to have been different or had a different impact then they would normally have been because of little things like when they happened?
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Don't know, don't know.
The second example would have the same effect whenever it played out (except if it was too late to make any demands).
The third one is just BB's reputation working against it when people outside the city seems to care less about all hell that breaking out there just because it's "normal" for The Bay.
And the first one is waves of March's plans from before her karmic punishment. It shows how strong her powers were, but it's work of March, not Zombie March.

All around is seems to be just your paranoia. In her new state, March shouldn't prove any more dangerous than a newborn bunny.
Wait... I just puled a PRT's treat assessment team, didn't I.
 
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readerdreamer said:
You provide actual direct evidence instead of your own interpretation of OCP then. I'll wait.
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Perk description is clear, it says "zero sum" and "messes up their ability to predict you", not "not found", nor "blocked". That's very different things.
Zero sum error, is an error in understanding or bias. Source of an issue gets misjudged, 'blame' redirected.

I just checked chapter 58.2, and it does say "simple effect of blocking all power-based precognition". @LordRoustabout , please clarify that, it seems to contradict perk description.
 
readerdreamer said:
Honestly I'm more concerned about the possibility of Zombie March getting caught by Noelle.
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True, that didn't even come to my mind. Not sure if that even possible, with March being half-shard (Leet said that her new anatomy is incomprehensible for him), but if it does happen, more of March would be a problem.

Hey, there's a (very slim) possibility of clone March being an asset to Gold Human MonkeFerrum.
If somehow, clone decided that the best way to make original's life hell is to help out the man that almost killed her and/or to always save Fléchette's live so that March can't be with her in death.
That would require some mental gymnastics from the clone, but it's not impossible.
 
andreykl said:
Perk description is clear, it says "zero sum" and "messes up their ability to predict you", not "not found", nor "blocked". That's very different things.
Zero sum error, is an error in understanding or bias. Source of an issue gets misjudged, 'blame' redirected.

I just checked chapter 58.2, and it does say "simple effect of blocking all power-based precognition". @LordRoustabout , please clarify that, it seems to contradict perk description.
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So your response to your interpretation differing from that of the author is... that the author is wrong and contradicting with the perk description. Even when BCF has been nothing but LordRoustabout's individual interpretations of each perk, with added clemency and flexibility for interpretation for the perks with higher cost.

I don't doubt that zero-sum error means what you say it does. But this interpretation is what the fic is using, and we had plenty of forewarning about it before the fact. People were asking about OCP on the very first chapters.
 
andreykl said:
Perk description is clear, it says "zero sum" and "messes up their ability to predict you", not "not found", nor "blocked". That's very different things.
Zero sum error, is an error in understanding or bias. Source of an issue gets misjudged, 'blame' redirected.

I just checked chapter 58.2, and it does say "simple effect of blocking all power-based precognition". @LordRoustabout , please clarify that, it seems to contradict perk description.
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The out of context perk would normally give a clearly wrong answer or just not work

Example
Coil asks Diahan what the chances Aperion attacks him in the next 24 hours .
Her answer would be "chocolate pasta ditch" percent.

But due to the Fate Servent Item Craftimg A+++, it instead gives a incorrect answer


So instead Diahan answer 5.3 percent, when Joe plans to 100 percent attack him.
 
LordRoustabout said:
(Author's note: Shorter chapter this week. I needed to cut a planned preamble due to limited writing time. The preamble will be included in next weeks chapter, a long awaited interlude set outside of Brockton Bay.)
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LordRoustabout said:
"Author's note: The main interlude I planned took longer than expected, so I'm posting the preamble as a mini-interlude for this week, basically a half chapter. As I've said, these short chapters aren't going to become a habit, but I prefer shorter posts to missing weeks. The promised longer interlude is still coming for next week."
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LordRoustabout said:
(Due to time constraints I had to cut this chapter short, so we have another interlude at half its intended length. The rest of the interlude will be coming next week, after which we'll finally get back to Joe.)
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You know, at some point you might just call this full length and be done with the issue. It's not like 5k+ words chapters is anything resembling to "short" anyway...
 
Why is this so flipping wholesome!? This can't possibly exist in Wor- *remembers that Chubster died in front of Taylor in canon* ......Well, that explain things. Wilder Beast knew that if he let The Chubster loose the whole premise would cumble under his sheer dad energy.

Ben saying that Lexy Packages are cannon fodder though, that hit right in the guts with how true it would be. Most of them may as well be annoying flies....
 
Mesaphrom said:
Why is this so flipping wholesome!? This can't possibly exist in Wor- *remembers that Chubster died in front of Taylor in canon* ......Well, that explain things. Wilder Beast knew that if he let The Chubster loose the whole premise would cumble under his sheer dad energy.

Ben saying that Lexy Packages are cannon fodder though, that hit right in the guts with how true it would be. Most of them may as well be annoying flies....
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Heck if you look at it, Alexandria is also the first of Cauldron to die since the start of canon (I would say overall, but Hero died first).
 
andreykl said:
Perk description is clear, it says "zero sum" and "messes up their ability to predict you", not "not found", nor "blocked". That's very different things.
Zero sum error, is an error in understanding or bias. Source of an issue gets misjudged, 'blame' redirected.

I just checked chapter 58.2, and it does say "simple effect of blocking all power-based precognition". @LordRoustabout , please clarify that, it seems to contradict perk description.
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The exact text of the perk:
It'd be boring if you were to just die right at the start so for free
you'll have a selective immunity to the powers of a few rather nasty plot device level opponents
that by all rights would probably want to kill you right out of the gate. Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's
precog doesn't seem to be able to pick you up, instead returning a zero-sum error whenever they
try to force the issue. They won't notice this until you garner enough attention for them to try and
then they might take further measures to see what the problem is. But at the moment you'll be
safe from being instantly killed due to the threat you pose to their plans. This works on all
shard/entity derived precog. Your peculiar inter-dimensional nature just messes up their ability to
predict you. Coil is an exception due to the weird nature of his power.
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Zero Sum, in this case, is used incorrectly. Zero Sum is a term from Game Theory that means that there is no win/win condition in the situation; for a person to win, another person must lose. Such a term makes zero sense when used in this context. Personally, I think it is SUPPOSED to say "Divide by Zero Error" instead of "Zero Sum Error", which makes a lot more sense.

Should that be the case, it would be a hard block. Divide by Zero is "undefined", after all, and it flat out prevents Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's precog from seeing you.
 
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I want to say it was a thing, but not as coloquially used as it's now. And liking fat bottomed girls had always been a thing anyway, that's why there is a song about (or twenty) about it.

I just normally take this kind of things as acceptable anachronisms. Better than teenagers with flip phones in the late 2010s anyway...
 
Mesaphrom said:
I want to say it was a thing, but not as coloquially used as it's now. And liking fat bottomed girls had always been a thing anyway, that's why there is a song about (or twenty) about it.

I just normally take this kind of things as acceptable anachronisms. Better than teenagers with flip phones in the late 2010s anyway...
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Many people like fat bottomed girls, reportedly because they make the rocking world go round. These people are also noted to be unable to tell a falsehood.
 
Jordisk said:
Many people like fat bottomed girls, reportedly because they make the rocking world go round. These people are also noted to be unable to tell a falsehood.
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Wasn't there also something about anacondas? I can't really remember.

So, uh. Good chapter, can't wait for part 2. I find myself wondering what the bay would be like if Joe decided he just wanted to be the world's biggest troll.

Also, I wonder what the bare minimum is for an item Joe would feel safe giving to Taylor. Would he feel comfortable giving her a bouncy ball or would he hold back for fear that Taylor would use it as a bludgeon?
 
AmberSlime said:
Also, I wonder what the bare minimum is for an item Joe would feel safe giving to Taylor. Would he feel comfortable giving her a bouncy ball or would he hold back for fear that Taylor would use it as a bludgeon?
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A mono-molecular weightless blade enchanted for extra speed and cutting is the floor level for that particular issue...
 
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