InvaderViceroy
Would you like to make a gamble~?
- Location
- A casino near you
[X] [SCHOOL] Go to college
[X] [CAPITAL] Move everything to Korhal
[X] [CAPITAL] Move everything to Korhal
Attempting to Subvert the Plan: Dominion Edition
- Thread starter Etranger
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- starcraft plan quest
- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
Yeah, this is not a competitive vote. I'll be closing it 12 hours early so I can get started on writing.
I do have to say that one of the things I really like about this quest is that there is discussion and such. I mean yeah, in this case its kind of uniform, but there was actual conversation and discussion. I also really like how people comment the why on plans they post and votes they make. It makes it more lively and interesting.
Just wanted to say thumbs up on that, its really cool and it makes this quest quite fun to read and participate in.
Just wanted to say thumbs up on that, its really cool and it makes this quest quite fun to read and participate in.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
[X] [SCHOOL] Go to college
[X] [CAPITAL] Move everything to Korhal
[X] [CAPITAL] Move everything to Korhal
How effective are marines (and other bread and butter units) actually?
Like, yes, a bit more than a Zergling, a bit less than a Zealot
But seriously, gameplay is obviously not the most accurate source, since battleships can be shot down by infantry, and I feel the cutscenes never explained very well.
Like, yes, a bit more than a Zergling, a bit less than a Zealot
But seriously, gameplay is obviously not the most accurate source, since battleships can be shot down by infantry, and I feel the cutscenes never explained very well.
Vote closed
- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but not all civil wars are created equal.
A civil war in which we start by blowing Mengsk the fuck up, then present Valerian as the rightful heir with the support of at least one or two of our buddies in the "poker game" cabinet is one thing.
A civil war that begins with us rallying entire forces and planets off Korhal and bringing that power to Korhal while Mengsk is still alive and in a position to fight back... That's another thing, and a much dicier proposition that's more likely to end badly for the Dominion as a whole.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...or we could not just assume that this whole thread is on board with Plan "Monarchy is the only solution."
E: To clarify I'm still not against the move to Korhal. Just didn't bother to vote because that seemed pretty settled.
E: To clarify I'm still not against the move to Korhal. Just didn't bother to vote because that seemed pretty settled.
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I fully, 1000% support, this idea. Making this the end result of the coup works on multiple levels for me. Also I like the idea of having it be done so fast that Mengsk doesn't have time to marshal his loyalists. By the time anyone blinks its done, Valerian is in charge, and nobody is even thinking of questioning it.
We then continue as Chancellor to help stabilize things or we retire soon afterward with our various money making enterprises continuing to make us money.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not saying "monarchy is the only solution;" it's clearly not. Monarchy isn't better than a republic in any objective sense.
But if you can think of a way to quickly and cleanly decapitate Arcturus' regime (that is, decapitate Arcturus himself) and establish a Terran Republic in the Koprulu Sector without fighting an extremely chancy and bloody civil war that's likely to leave the Terrans very vulnerable to winding up as Zerg chow...
Well, you're a better strategizer than I am, in that case. Because I don't see one.
Whereas replacing Arcturus with Valerian could, at least in principle, be a quick, clean change of government if we play our cards right.
...
I'm not going to get mad if the thread collectively goes ride-or-die on republicanism. And even if we do end up playing a series of war turns as we fight a civil war on the republican side against hostile Dominion remnants, or against a combined Dominion still under Arcturus, well, that's a good hill to die on.
But not gonna lie, if I'm trying to play the hand we're dealt and figure out a way to succeed in overthrowing Arcturus personally without collapsing Koprulu Zone humanity into a state incapable of defending itself...
I think the "king is dead, long live the king" ending is our best bet.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
If we discredit Mengsk and do a palace coup we could just... not put Valerian in charge? Because yeah, the canonical end is that Valerian becomes an absolute monarch with literally no checks and balances (just like his father) other than his morality but it's okay because he's nice, and that's what Blizzard cares about.
So yeah, fuck that.
Do we literally have to get into this discussion every few pages? Like nothing seems to come out of it except the same constant points with no change of views.
You say "fuck it" I say, "awesome on Valerian coming to power and softening things." You say "seriously Blizard" and I say "it was a nifty element they did there, cool stuff." Neither opinion is right - though canon clearly showcases Valerian's rule is better than his father. (In canon Matt Horner joins Emperor Valerian as his General.)
But yeah, do we really need to get into this same comment chain again and again.
You say "fuck it" I say, "awesome on Valerian coming to power and softening things." You say "seriously Blizard" and I say "it was a nifty element they did there, cool stuff." Neither opinion is right - though canon clearly showcases Valerian's rule is better than his father. (In canon Matt Horner joins Emperor Valerian as his General.)
But yeah, do we really need to get into this same comment chain again and again.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, as long as people keep on assuming Valerian being in charge is the default to plan for... yes. Yes we have to keep on having this discussion.
E: But yeah, Valerian canonically is literally an absolute dictator just like his father but because he's nice everything's better. It's legitimately to the right of half the monarchists of the 20th century, lol.
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Well I guess if it keeps on being brought up then I will have to keep on commenting that I think removing Mengsk and replacing him with his son, Valerian, is an awesome plan. One that I wholeheartedly and fully support. And that I think it will be the only way for there not to be an actual internal civil war with battle fleets devastating whole worlds.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well sure, and we'll keep on coming back here where I try to remind people that actually absolute dictators with total power over everyone else are bad, y'hear.
You're talking about real world stuff and I am talking about a fictional universe.
Its like there can be a quest where we are a loyal Imperial Moff who stays in the Empire rather than joining the Rebels.
Just because 'its bad in reality' doesn't mean it can't be fun in fiction. So there is no need to say 'its bad y'hear."
And there is also the fact that right now Terran society and culture is being beset by alien foes on multiple sides and in the future Earth's attempt at conquest. Having, and this is a well put phrase, 'radical societal reconstruction' at this point is ridiculous.
Its like there can be a quest where we are a loyal Imperial Moff who stays in the Empire rather than joining the Rebels.
Just because 'its bad in reality' doesn't mean it can't be fun in fiction. So there is no need to say 'its bad y'hear."
And there is also the fact that right now Terran society and culture is being beset by alien foes on multiple sides and in the future Earth's attempt at conquest. Having, and this is a well put phrase, 'radical societal reconstruction' at this point is ridiculous.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I mean, I also think that Empire Stans are one of the worst elements to exist in Star Wars fan culture, lol.
Wouldnt it be reasonable to try and force a type of constitutional monarchy on Valerian. Just because canonically they are a absolute dictator dosnt mean they have to be one. given their nicer nature it may be possible to start adding checks and balances in Valerians rule to migrate towards a republic. Perhaps with a figurehead monarchy.
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So on a different topic that I was meaning to ask about, as part of our goals we have Complete one non-[Reconstruction] project in each Revitalization Goals category by the end of Q4 2511
Revitalization Goals
Infrastructure
Heavy Industry
Light and Chemical Industry
Environmental
Services
And I was curious if we are actually tracking this and such. I mean I know we are in 2508 right now and thus have years but if we don't actually do some of the math to figure out our meeting thse goals we might be blindsided. Especially as I read that as us finishing all Parts of a particular action line to meet the goal.
--
Also anyone notice that when our great QM posted the result he also rolled a dice for our education and got 25. I wonder if that is a good thing.
Revitalization Goals
Infrastructure
Heavy Industry
Light and Chemical Industry
Environmental
Services
And I was curious if we are actually tracking this and such. I mean I know we are in 2508 right now and thus have years but if we don't actually do some of the math to figure out our meeting thse goals we might be blindsided. Especially as I read that as us finishing all Parts of a particular action line to meet the goal.
--
Also anyone notice that when our great QM posted the result he also rolled a dice for our education and got 25. I wonder if that is a good thing.
To be more elaborate about it
The Dominion, and the Confederacy, had been an autocracy or oligarchy for centuries. From top to bottom, the culture and political system revolves around this assumption. Democracy is presumably fathomable, but pretty foreign.
Transitioning from a dictatorship to a democracy is therefore going to be a great deal of work, as well as directly counter to the interests of the current political elite who are used to autocratic rule.
Unjust as military dictatorships are, this means that your republic will demand both a great deal of bureaucracy, and significantly increase the odds of the elites taking their private armies and fighting back/ screwing off.
But SC2 hasn't happened yet. If we lose the war in SC2, we go extinct. The Terrans canonically came away pretty alright, but it's a chancy proposition to rock the boat like that when extinction (three times over) is on the line.
Ergo
Valerian on the throne looks pretty good for our odds of surviving (because that's canon), while democracy looks significantly worse. Because I like living more than I like political enfranchisement, I am inclined to wait until after SC2 until proposing anything dramatic.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
We're literally in charge of the bureaucracy. We literally have a potential private army of our own. Of all the critiques, the "but what about the bureaucracy" is one of the ones that ironically is least applicable for a new Republic in our case. The new Republic in this case will be born with a powerful, energetic bureaucracy that's spent years belling the Mengskian cat in the name of liberty and human rights.
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- Location
- The internet
Its not entirely clear that Valiarian is an absolute monarch in canon anyway. Blizzard doesn't exactly go deep into the politics of any polity. That said, given that Caroline Davis's plan in Covert Ops amounted to a political pressure campaign to get rid of Valarian, there probably was an impeachment mechanism of some sort that she was hoping to use if Valarian wasn't polite enough to just offer to resign.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
The die roll was for our college education, the bonus gain did not proc because it was under 76.
For our goals:
INFRASTRUCTURE- Even if we do nothing else, Augustgrad qualifies. Fringe Bunkers are easy as well.
HEAVY INDUSTRY- SCVs or Tool and Die would cover this if we got to the ends of them.
LCI- Phoros is almost done.
ENVIORNMENTAL- This one's a bit harder, we haven't really been focusing heavily on non-mandatory multiphase projects. On the other hand, we have very few priorities here, so it should be relatively easy to, IDK, pick a biosphere and rebuild it.
SERVICES- Word of QM is that more investment into UNN would get this one, and the Shipyards would also do it, being a multiphase project.