- Location
- Italy
A moment of silence for the pancakes. They tried their best, but it wasn't enough.
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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
A moment of silence for the pancakes. They tried their best, but it wasn't enough.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ahhh. I think I understand.
I'll keep pecking away at it over time. @Blackstar , do you want one post for each Plan or one giant post for all of them?
Well, my problem was, I had no goddamn clue what a Partmax even is.
I'm hoping to find and note the moment at which VSNKh realized it was probably better to have the gulag penal battalions doing massive outdoor construction projects in southern Russia during the winter and northern Russia during the summer, instead of for some odd reason always winding up doing it the other way around...
- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Per plan would be the best format if you can. Again thank you so much for doing this.
I am probably going to be too out of it today to work on the next update, but so far, I've planned everything out; I just need to write it.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
I believe the general consensus is that we figured out that winter exists about 3 years into the 1st Plan.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm already three years into the First Plan and I can find no clear evidence that this is the case.
In fairness, the way the game divides up the year makes it a bit non-obvious which "half" has significantly worse winter weather. While January-February are generally colder than November-December in most parts of the Northern Hemisphere I'm familiar with, it's a bit more subtle than if the two half-years were explicitly named "Summer" and "Winter" or some such.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
We figured out that winter existed and decided to ignore that fact because we still had too much work to do IIRC.
We just at that point acknowledged that we were throwing our workers into winter conditions instead of being confused and wondering why they were all dying of frostbite.
CrabMonarchy
Allegedly Dutch
- Location
- the Netherlands, apparently
I'm already three years into the First Plan and I can find no clear evidence that this is the case.
In fairness, the way the game divides up the year makes it a bit non-obvious which "half" has significantly worse winter weather. While January-February are generally colder than November-December in most parts of the Northern Hemisphere I'm familiar with, it's a bit more subtle than if the two half-years were explicitly named "Summer" and "Winter" or some such.
Just after the results for the 1st half of 1931, ctulhuslp commented on the winter deaths:
Later on, near the end of the vote for the 2nd half of 1931, crazycryodude noted that winter was a thing, but also that the Trans-Siberian Railroad was important so some deaths would be acceptable:
For reference, the GULAGs were taken over in the 2nd half of 1930, so it seems that after the first time workers froze to death the thread did realize the issue, and just chose to send them out anyways.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Thanks. Good to have that benchmark.
This may be a big ask, but can anyone who was more active in those days try to identify the first point at which we didn't do a big project at a particular time because of the absurd ball-freezing cold we'd be sending the workers into?
This may be a big ask, but can anyone who was more active in those days try to identify the first point at which we didn't do a big project at a particular time because of the absurd ball-freezing cold we'd be sending the workers into?
I thought of a joke the other day which I imagine might've be told by someone annoyed by a certain renovation project that recently became available if they telling it in English for some reason
MNKh leaders in heaven
Mikoyan, Malenkov and Voznesensky are sitting in a car together when it suddenly crashes. They all die and when they wake up, they see a beautiful set of pearly gates. There they meet Karl Marx passing judgement on the dead. He tells them "Hello comrades. This is the entrance to Communist Heaven. I shall see if you've been good Communists. Pass, and you may enter into the eternal Proletarian Democracy all live in harmony. Yet fail, and you shall go to Communist Hell where you shall be purged for all eternity!
First Marx asks for Mikoyan. Marx leans over and asks him "Comrade Mikoyan! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
Mikoyan replies "Capital!"
Then Marx asks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Mikoyan replies "Sell them all ice-cream and use the proceeds to destroy religion! The opium of the masses!"
But Marx merely looks disapprovingly and says "that is not the right answer", pulls a lever and Mikoyan falls screaming into the abyss
Next comes Malenkov. Marx asks him "Comrade Malenkov! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
Malenkov replies "Well uh...capital, sir?"
Then Marx aks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Malenkov replies "w-well I guess we could get rid of some of it but maybe spend some more time building trains instead?"
But Marx merely looks disapprovingly and says "that is also not the right answer ", pulls a lever and Malenkov falls screaming into the abyss
Then finally comes Voznesensky. Marx asks him "Comrade Voznesensky! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
To which Voznesensky replies with a booming "Capital!"
Then Marx aks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Voznesensky replies "To be utterly and completely destroyed and replaced, the ashes of the old swept away from the annals of histroy!"
And finally, Marx looks approvingly and says "very good! Finally someone worthy. Just one final question: what exactly is capital?"
And Voznesensky thinks for a second before replying
MNKh leaders in heaven
Mikoyan, Malenkov and Voznesensky are sitting in a car together when it suddenly crashes. They all die and when they wake up, they see a beautiful set of pearly gates. There they meet Karl Marx passing judgement on the dead. He tells them "Hello comrades. This is the entrance to Communist Heaven. I shall see if you've been good Communists. Pass, and you may enter into the eternal Proletarian Democracy all live in harmony. Yet fail, and you shall go to Communist Hell where you shall be purged for all eternity!
First Marx asks for Mikoyan. Marx leans over and asks him "Comrade Mikoyan! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
Mikoyan replies "Capital!"
Then Marx asks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Mikoyan replies "Sell them all ice-cream and use the proceeds to destroy religion! The opium of the masses!"
But Marx merely looks disapprovingly and says "that is not the right answer", pulls a lever and Mikoyan falls screaming into the abyss
Next comes Malenkov. Marx asks him "Comrade Malenkov! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
Malenkov replies "Well uh...capital, sir?"
Then Marx aks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Malenkov replies "w-well I guess we could get rid of some of it but maybe spend some more time building trains instead?"
But Marx merely looks disapprovingly and says "that is also not the right answer ", pulls a lever and Malenkov falls screaming into the abyss
Then finally comes Voznesensky. Marx asks him "Comrade Voznesensky! What is the greatest enemy of the working class?"
To which Voznesensky replies with a booming "Capital!"
Then Marx aks "and what is the fate of Capital?"
And Voznesensky replies "To be utterly and completely destroyed and replaced, the ashes of the old swept away from the annals of histroy!"
And finally, Marx looks approvingly and says "very good! Finally someone worthy. Just one final question: what exactly is capital?"
And Voznesensky thinks for a second before replying
Well...Moscow innit?
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Out of curiosity, what do people think the current population of the Soviet Union is at this point in the quest? Historically, the SU had it's first official census in decades in 59, which was why I started thinking about it. In reality it was at about 208 million people, with some areas actually having declined in population compared to the 39 census. I have to think that with our aversion of the worst famines and significantly reduced casualties from WW2, plus a trickle of foreign immigration, that we are significantly higher. Maybe somewhere around 240 million? No wonder we have a housing crisis.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
In 1956 it surpassed 280 million according to Blackstar on Discord its been a couple of years since, so we should be close to 300. We didn't have the self-owns of collectivization, a lot less civilian casualties from the GPW, more housing and medicine than OTL. So the demographic hole from then isn't anywhere near as bad TTL.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So not merely significantly higher, but nearly 50% higher, which is a pretty astronomical delta for population figures. And we're still only seeing the start of the post-war baby-boomers, so it's only going to continue.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Welllll.
By 1959, the postwar baby boom is pretty well winding down in the sense that the generation that was of young adult age in World War Two has already had most of their kids.
This is the US's birth rate, not the USSR's, so there will be differences, but:
The orange part is the baby boom, and note that it falls off right around 1960. For reasons broadly similar to what I expect to happen in the USSR.
By 1959, the postwar baby boom is pretty well winding down in the sense that the generation that was of young adult age in World War Two has already had most of their kids.
This is the US's birth rate, not the USSR's, so there will be differences, but:
The orange part is the baby boom, and note that it falls off right around 1960. For reasons broadly similar to what I expect to happen in the USSR.
- Location
- The great frozen north
@Simon_Jester Thanks for the write up, but context behind the pancakes?
...When DID we stop worrying about digging canals in winter? I think it was during Malenkov's reign, but IDK how much of that is from technology advancement alone, and how much is from Mal consciously trying to reign in Stalinist/Mikonyanist butchery?
...When DID we stop worrying about digging canals in winter? I think it was during Malenkov's reign, but IDK how much of that is from technology advancement alone, and how much is from Mal consciously trying to reign in Stalinist/Mikonyanist butchery?
Well then... while Numbers Go Up is great, I worry about the impact on global warming this TL will have from a USSR that both has a 50% higher population than OTL and has shattered steel production records with the number only going up- as well as a China that didn't see Mao's great leap forwards.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
The sharper the Global Warming increase, the greater the chance that the governments will actually acknowledge it as a problem that needs to be addressed.
- Location
- Britain
The major difference I think from reading the thread is that you all are planning to push heavily into nuclear-punk once you can rather than have nuclear tech be indefinitely stalled like it was IRL by Three Mile and Chernobyl. So while the 50-90's will have a larger climate impact, you'll also be ready to start on cleaner replacement tech for the worst offending polluters far sooner than than we've been embracing IRL.
- Location
- Italy
I'm somewhat optimistic about that, actually. lots of nuclear and hydro will help transition away from coal, and with the URSS having a strong central authority it should be easier to push for those reforms that HAVE to come from the top... like, say, making Solar Panels obligatory on new buildings, NOT stopping Nuclear, banning a few dangerous substances and so on.
the Party might not care about universal rights, but we care enough about not having the world go to shit. We live there, after all!
Basically, while there might be the usual disinformation about climate change in the west, I don't think it will be as bad in our Russia. Not once we're actually in position to act about it, at least. I suppose we might deny it until we develop a solution.
We're kinda planning to push many different technologies, but yeah, Nuclear is our next step. Autonuke has already been mentioned as a somewhat expensive option for the next 5YP.
Wind is not currently worth it, same for Solar that will probably not be worth it for AT LEAST another couple decades, and possibly well into the 2000s, geothermal is niche...
Hydro has a LOT of potential still, though. Blackstar mentioned on the Discord there's 1100 twh of potential in Russia, and to put it into context
quick google check:
global electricity production in 2019: 23845 twh
Russia's Consumption in 2020: 943 twh (4th country)
China's consumption in 2020: 6875,1 twh (1st country)
U.S.A's consumption in 2020: 3843,8 (2nd country)
India's consumption in 2020: 1229,4 (3rd country)
So Hydro by itself, fully taken advantage of, could cover modern Russia full consumption. a Mix of Hydro, Nuclear and some Gas should be enough once we can scale up.
Give it time and we might finally manage to close down all coal plants.
CrabMonarchy
Allegedly Dutch
- Location
- the Netherlands, apparently
When we took over the GULAG system, we voted to increase rations for the workers to improve productivity, which according to one worker took the form of pancakes.
- Location
- Northish
I will not lie to you, the OTL USSR was terrible at environmental protection and on pollution. However one benefit of our top down power structure is that if the Supreme Soviet plays ball we can mandate the kinds of green initiatives that western countries struggle to get corporations to agree to. Moreover we are electrifying as much of our heating, manufacturing, and transportation as reasonably practical. In time our push into carbon neutral power production will pave the way forward.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The thing is, there'll be an offset between when those babies are born and when they want things like, say, housing - a baby boomer is probably going to start looking for a home separate from their family's around eighteen years old, while the same person is going to be adding load on our school and food supply considerably sooner. If it falls off around 1960, I suspect we're going to be needing to put quite a bit of work into housing expansion until 1980. On the other hand, school expansions shouldn't be too much of an issue if what we've got now is basically fine.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It was, though we've tried to lean into pushing back against that here and there. Malenkov actually gave the beginnings of a damn about the environment once in a while, and while Voz probably doesn't, he's the kind of long-term thinker who actually cares intensely about a 3% reduction in lung cancer rates from reduced particulates in urban air, or plans far enough ahead to be thinking "what of the future of the Union when the oil runs out?" Which is a broadly acceptable substitute that over time drives the USSR's economy towards greener energy options anyway.
As CrabMonarchy documented.
In the 1931H2 results post, a letter written in-setting by a laborer working on the Stalingrad Dam explicitly referenced the stack of pancakes (admittedly without butter) the workers were now being served every morning. In that and subsequent turns, the letters from the labor divisions frequently discuss many other problems with the working conditions, but never complain about the food as far as I can tell.
I chose the pancakes as the literary device that would address VSNKh's decision to increase rations to the gulag workers and translate it into more human terms.
Primary and secondary schools are probably close to their maximum necessary scale for the foreseeable future, though ongoing school construction will still be necessary to replace shitty old buildings. We may see a modernization option, for instance, updating schools with better insulation, air conditioning, PA systems (GOD those are useful), and stuff like photocopiers when and as that becomes available.
Universities are going to need sharp ongoing expansion, because right now the baby boomers haven't even begun to hit college age yet.
We may need, in effect "autoschool" and "autocollege" options.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
I believe we are doing an autoschool/university option right now?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
All the better!
But point is, we're gonna go on needing it. Especially the universities; a gradual "rolling refurbishment" of the oldest primary and secondary school buildings may be pre-covered under the normal operating budget of, uh, whoever runs the Soviet equivalent of the Department of Education in this timeline. Though major modernizations ("Attempting To Abate the Asbestos") may show up under our Services budget again.
obssesednuker
Commander of 10 Million Men
- Location
- In the Kremlin, activating Perimtr.
Hrm, let's see: if we assume the "baby boom" generation starts in 1945 (since WW2 in Europe ended a year earlier than OTL), that puts the first ones as hitting the tertiary educational system by… 1963.
So yeah, definitely something we're gonna start needing to think about.
Informational: Achievements of the Second Five-Year Plan
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Achievements of the Five Year Plans
Second Five Year Plan (1933-1937)
Second Five Year Plan (1933-1937)
For a baseline of where the USSR stood economically and technologically speaking in 1933 (as of this writing, barely twenty-five in-game years ago), see here.
1933: Comrade Stalin chooses another old friend, Anastas Mikoyan, to lead VSNKh onward. With basic essentials of Soviet industry established to some minimal level, military reform and production targets are added to the Plan. Most influential in setting these targets is Alexander Vasilevsky, an advocate of widespread distribution of radios and improved officer training to strengthen the Red Army's command and control. Mikoyan spends considerable political clout with the Party to push Vasilevsky's scheme for military buildup. This involves minimal expansion of the armed forces as a whole, but combines massive expansions of the officer corps with extensive programs to improve equipment and training, in preparation for rapid mobilization and expansion in the Third Five Year Plan. To some grumbling among the party, Mikoyan only promises objectively unachievable-in-full targets of 150% growth in most economic sectors (though only a 50% increase in food production) over five years. Much of the Party seems to have been hoping for yet higher (and more outlandishly impossible) targets. VSNKh is given an ambitious 35% of Soviet GNP to make these things happen.
Mikoyan swings into action with work on a variety of projects contemplated or unfinished in the First Plan. The refurbished railroads of the Far East are re-equipped with new 1200-horsepower diesel locomotives. In the remote wilderness of Siberia, this produces great improvements in efficiency, eliminating the need for constant water stops and simplifying winter operations. Power lines begin to spring up between cities throughout the Ural region, in preparation for the area's ongoing industrialization. Workers return to Magnitogorsk, laying the foundations of yet another tranche of great steel mills.
Farther west, the Stalingrad Hydroelectric Station, hailed as the largest power plant in the world, is finally completed in the early months of this year, though at a heavy price as the work proceeds through a hard winter. Expansions to Gorky's machine tool plants finally permit satisfactory domestic production of steam turbines. Plant systems for bakelite and ammonia-based fertilizers are expanded though not entirely perfected. The Donbass coal mines' initial mechanization programs were finally completed, reducing casualties to workplace accidents, though the hazards of black lung grows if anything worse. Work to expand the schools and polytechnic universities continues.
Mikoyan spearheads significant changes to impact the peasantry. Systematic efforts to suppress and discourage religion grow stronger, and competing institutions in the form of secular, Party-supported community centers spring up across much of the Soviet Union. With grain production increasing, the state begins buying grain at lower and lower prices in an attempt to pressure the remaining old-style landholder peasant farmers into moving to the new, more productive and Party-approved collective farms and "new towns."
Groundwork is laid for the military reforms by performing a thorough overview of existing equipment, establishing a formal procurement board, founding numerous OKBs to design the hardware, and greatly expanding the officer academies, as Vasilevsky has recommended. Within the ministry proper, Mikoyan launches further hiring drives and prepares a first step towards one of his own personal agenda items- taking proper advantage of foreign trade. This begins with technology licensing programs aimed at sourcing foreign technologies in strategic areas such as aircraft engine design and chemical engineering; Mikoyan then moves on to create a specific state enterprise for handling international trade, aimed at getting better prices and results.
1933
...
(more of this later)
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