Ask About French History

ganonso

Compulsive Quest Starter
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PACA France
Not knowing if people are interested but posting the thread in any case. :)

Exactly what it says on the thin. If you have questions, thoughts or comments about French history, this thread is for you.


Want to know why AC: Unity pisses people off, why the cheese-eating surrender monkeys is a silly stereotype to begin with, or our long-standing feud with the damm British, feel free to ask
 
Tell me what food/dishes is popular for the French in the Late Medieval Ages. Preferably for the more wealthy but I'd take the peasants POV as well.

It's for my research.
 
Not knowing if people are interested but posting the thread in any case. :)

Exactly what it says on the thin. If you have questions, thoughts or comments about French history, this thread is for you.


Want to know why AC: Unity pisses people off, why the cheese-eating surrender monkeys is a silly stereotype to begin with, or our long-standing feud with the damm British, feel free to ask
Okay then, I'm curious about a couple things mainly. The story of the Tarrasque from what I've heard is French in origin, any truth to that? And what was the Gaulish pantheon like, mostly in comparison to others and how little use it sees like the Irish pantheon.

Also a bit curious where some of the feuds the French have had come from, what are the main origins?
 
The Tarrasque is French, more precisely Provencal, it comes from the city of Tarascon.

The Gaulish Pantheon is not very known because it was absorbed in the Greco-Roman one after the conquest. That explains why you don't see it used often. We know of Cerumnos (the original Horned God), we know that Lugh was worshipped (Lyon's old name was Lugdunum aka Lug's City).
But we have no myths, just list of names with their eventual Roman incarnation , Lug was indentified with Hermes, Taranis with Jupiter, this sort of thing.

For the wealthy cuisine of the Medieval Ages: Mostly venaison (that's the thing that separates nobles from commoners) but I will need precises dates to be more precise.
 
For the wealthy cuisine of the Medieval Ages: Mostly venaison (that's the thing that separates nobles from commoners) but I will need precises dates to be more precise.

Around the 1350s to the early 1500s please. :)

Why is venison more of a nobles thing? What meat did peasants eat?
 
The Tarrasque is French, more precisely Provencal, it comes from the city of Tarascon.

The Gaulish Pantheon is not very known because it was absorbed in the Greco-Roman one after the conquest. That explains why you don't see it used often. We know of Cerumnos (the original Horned God), we know that Lugh was worshipped (Lyon's old name was Lugdunum aka Lug's City).
But we have no myths, just list of names with their eventual Roman incarnation , Lug was indentified with Hermes, Taranis with Jupiter, this sort of thing.
Huh, neat. Though I could've sworn some of the Gaulish pantheons myths survived some how, ah well. Having anything is better than nothing.
 
Peasants were forbidden to hunt, penalties for poaching varied from beatings (for rabbits) to death (for bucks). So no venaison from them. When they ate meat and that was rare) that was the usual pork, lamb, chiken. But from what I remember the main staple of peasants diets was vegetables and cereals
 
France pioneered invention of the tank. The FT-17 was one of most successful tanks early era of armored warfare. Yet when WW 2 rolled around French tanks had some questionable and obsolete design. And not so good armored warfare doctrine. Why did France lag behind in tank technology and tactics ?
 
I've read that the Pre-WW2 French Navy had some different ideas about what naval war would look like and the plans to match, but the only non-traditional design I've seen is for this combat cruiser. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this, or at least let me know how fake those drawings are.
 
France pioneered invention of the tank. The FT-17 was one of most successful tanks early era of armored warfare. Yet when WW 2 rolled around French tanks had some questionable and obsolete design. And not so good armored warfare doctrine. Why did France lag behind in tank technology and tactics ?
The simple reason is that France did not have the social capital to afford sweeping investment in mobile warfare. There were certainly real economic reasons, but those were obstacles that could genuinely have been overcome. Were there a will there would have been a way. But France as a nation hadn't the stomach for it. The losses France had suffered were simply catastrophic - most of the war on the Western Front was fought on her own soil and some of the most industrialized provinces at that - and the burden of the war was disproportionately on her shoulders. The resulting demographic malaise, literally a decade of empty classrooms, was combined with the Great Depression. Needless to say, the Republic was wracked by social turmoil.

In a bitter irony the French military establishment would be captured in a dark mirror of the institutional and social factors that had trapped the army in mobile warfare taken to its excessive extreme in the years leading up to the Great War. A particular kind of politics played an outsized role in dictating training: suspicion of the military establishment. To combat it a clique of politically fervent nationalist officers led a creeping monopolization of training for the purposes of inculcation in the values of the Republic. As such despite having three years of active to other nation's two, the French recruit did not necessarily learn much more about his craft in the field than his counterparts. Attaque a outrance as originally conceived was a viable, cohesive doctrine of mobile warfare hinging on skillful, sudden deployment of the Soixante-Quinze to destroy the enemy caught in the open with storms of fire that would prove itself in the Miracle on the Marne. However the primacy of the social agenda led many less fervently republican officers to nevertheless go along with the ideological programme and make the best of the situation where a recruit would assuredly be filled with Gallic furor but practical training was not so guaranteed. Despite recognizing the major flaws in their approach, the French Army as an institution internally rationalized taking that doctrine of blood and bayonet to its extreme.

In similar fashion, the aftermath of its heroic efforts in the first World War compelled French governments to invest in static war of position. The trauma indelibly stamped on the national psyche simply would not permit the possibility of losing an inch of sacred soil ever again or the wastage of men in the open field. The proportionally small French defense budgets and the best personnel became tied up in this societal straitjacket. Like the officers who had turned attaque a outrance into a disaster, much of the interbellum French Army from top to bottom recognized the Maginot line as folly even as they went about putting it in place. Whatever else might be said about Charles de Gualle, he is unquestionably on the record for advocating a universally mechanized army. Nevertheless without the political capital to abandon defensive belts in depth for lengthy, expensive exercises to test such a radical shift in doctrine - nevermind actually reorganizing the entire army on those lines - the French Army did what it did before WW1. It made the best of it.

However, it goes too far to say that French armor was categorically obsolete. The French SOMUA S35 has a well deserved reputation as a monster in the early years of WWII. Most of the German tanks in that era were Pzkwgn Is and IIs. The faults of French tanks were by and large the very same ones seen in Germany's vehicle park at the time, including one of their best the Czech designed 35(t). This was simply unavoidable when mass armored warfare was still in its teething stages.
I've read that the Pre-WW2 French Navy had some different ideas about what naval war would look like and the plans to match, but the only non-traditional design I've seen is for this combat cruiser. I was wondering if you could shed some light on this, or at least let me know how fake those drawings are.
When you say "Pre-WW2", do you refer to the interwar period specifically, or in a more general sense? France was on the cutting edge of naval developments throughout the 19th century.
 
Not knowing if people are interested but posting the thread in any case. :)

Exactly what it says on the thin. If you have questions, thoughts or comments about French history, this thread is for you.


Want to know why AC: Unity pisses people off, why the cheese-eating surrender monkeys is a silly stereotype to begin with, or our long-standing feud with the damm British, feel free to ask
u wot mate

tryin to steal my shtick r u

(will follow thread with interest)
 
What were the differences between the France of the Capetians and the France of Valois and the Hundred Years War?
 
We have plenty of non-Louis kings :)

Best Exemples are Francis 1 who brought back a certain Leonardo Da Vinci from his italian campaigns, Phillipe the Fourth said the Fair that condemned the Knight Templars, Henry the Fourth that ended the Wars of Religion.

Technically there were very few differences. After all Philip the Sixth was first cousin to the last Capetian King. I would say the Valois started weaker than the Capetians ended, one part because the accession of Phillip 6th was bought with some territorial concessions and because the Valois represented the noble's reaction to the previous kings centralization efforts.

Then there was the Hundred Years Wars and look the Duke of Bourgogne who was previously a faithful vassal (much of the Capetian' problems were due to Flanders) is now an ennemy and will remain so until Louis XI assassinated (apparently) Charles the Fearless. That would culminate in Charles the Seventh pitful kingdom near Bourges.

Then after the Hundred Years Wars there was the Wars of Religion.

Let's say there's a reason the Bourbons are more fondly remembered in the history books than the Valois.
 
I heard (or perhaps misread) that the French kidnapped the Pope. Twice. I don't recall which Popes there were but I knew at one point the guy was basically on the French's payroll. Which Popes were these and why did this happen?
 
That was the Avignon Papacy, a period from 1309 to 1377 where the Popes where based in Avignon instead of Rome. Ehich started after a French Pope was elected and he refused to move to Italy.

Avignon Papacy
 
We did not kidnap the Pope. We apparently poisoned the one who refused to move in Avignon but Clement V came from his own free will (Rome at the time was not really secure and the Papacy was in conflict with the Holy Roman Empire)

We laid siege to Pope Boniface palace in Agnagni and slapped him to insanity though
 
Would you rate the motives behind the French involvement in the Scramble for Africa to be primarily economic or for the Prestige of owning a large Colonial Empire?
 
When you say "Pre-WW2", do you refer to the interwar period specifically, or in a more general sense? France was on the cutting edge of naval developments throughout the 19th century.
I meant it in a more general sense. I should probably note that I don't really care about early or mid 1800 unarmored designs.

Also, if France was on the cutting edge, then why where they so behind in fleet elements at the start of WW1?
 
Also, if France was on the cutting edge, then why where they so behind in fleet elements at the start of WW1?

The Entente Cordiale meant that France could afford to focus on land power, and sort of leave the ocean to the British, who were more inclined towards that anyways given their direct naval rivalry with Germany and their vast overseas obligations. France didn't build up a massive fleet before 1914 because they didn't need to.
 
When did the French elites of the First Empire start to lose faith in Napoleon? Was it the catastrophe of Russia? Or the loss of Germany?
 
The reasons for the French Colonial Empire were manifold.

One We had an empire already with the Carribeans or possession in America we lost or sold. So continuing to expand was natural

Two: Simple Geography after all for us Africa is just a sea away and we traded/warred against the northern kingdoms for quite a while.

Three: Export of French-style democracy was considered a Republican responsability

Four: If we don't have an empire, the British will have more lands and that's unnaceptable!
 
Troll question: Charlemagne or Karl Magnus?

2nd troll question: Rosbif or Boche, who is the greater foe?

Srsquestion: Have there been any concerted French efforts to extinguish the Occitanian and Brettonian languages and suppress their culture?

Srsquestion 2: How great of a threat would a united, strong, and centralized Holy Roman Empire have been to the eyes of the rulers of France?
 
1st question: Carolus Magnus of course

2nd question: While the British are our most ancestral foe (by that I mean we've spent more time ennemies than allies) the tendency of the French Right to refer to dismal Germany as a model in our times would make me nominate the boches.

3rd Oh yes in the 19th Century and the start of the 20th. Basically imagine your standard Native American Catholic School (children being beaten for speaking the wrong language, no documentation at all provided in their native tongue, teachers that were often expressly sent from French-speaking parts of the country). We take our langage very seriously here. Ironically that was the experience of the First World War where Britons, Provencals and Parisians were in the same trenches that signed the end of the regional tongues. (At varying degrees, my maternal grandmothers which is 78 understood Provencal when she was a child)

Morally it is difficult to condone such policies but I must mark that French Catalonia has exactly zero serious desires of independance compared with Spanish Catalonia or of course the Basques. (we have some independantists movements but they are fringe groups)

4rth The last time the HRE was unified under Charles 5th it captured our king Francis 1 after defeating him in battle. So I say a very large threat. However don't forget that some parts of France (like Provence at a moment) were Electors in the HRE (Francis was himself a candidate for the post and was neither the first or the last French King to have the idea)
 
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