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Architect's Workshop (Girls' Frontline design quest)

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At any rate, there was good reason to assume that the higher flight ceiling wouldn't give the benefits we hoped, I just was thinking purely ground asset threats with my Stinger T-Doll thing - I think what pushed me over was the fact that I play Arma too, and I've lost a whole lot of AR-2 Darters to flying way too close to enemy infantry for recon.
 
Solark said:
Can you be more specific? When something is in theory or approximately, I word it accordingly. On the other hand, numbers and calculations are trustworthy.
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The base idea of the quest is "Here's a problem, here's some basic ideas on why its a problem and thus hints on the solution to it" and then we go out, throw shit at the wall, then work out what might work and what might not, then build it, then finally test it in real-world conditions and find out what we overlooked.

T-dolls having aim-bot hax being one of those things that we could have overlooked in this case and thus why the smaller ones wouldn't have worked (when we were arguing it out I mean).

So, In Theory, the smaller ones would be harder to hit. Except aim-bot hax being potentially overlooked would be a practical reason why it wouldn't have.
TenthDaughter said:
Stinger T-Doll thing
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tbf, G&K shouldn't have access to any kind of rocket launchers or heavy emplacement weaponry right now. They didn't break that rule until they were blatantly betrayed by the army.
 
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Solark said:
Can you be more specific? When something is in theory or approximately, I word it accordingly. On the other hand, numbers and calculations are trustworthy.
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Solark said:
Retrofitting the drones with second generation engines would bring them well out of danger
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Solark said:
Or you could keep the gen-1 propulsion and optics, but miniaturize the drones, taking advantage of new components and power units. This would make them very hard to spot and nearly impossible to hit at the standard altitude
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These are what we had to work with, so my reasoning was:
-Big drone=no risk
-Small drone=reduced risk
Now, maybe i reasoned wrong or didn't thought out of the box enough but nothing seemed to indicate that they would be so vulnerable

EDIT: (This is not a criticism, just how I misread the situation)
 
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ShadowAngelBeta said:
The base idea of the quest is "Here's a problem, here's some basic ideas on why its a problem and thus hints on the solution to it" and then we go out, throw shit at the wall, then work out what might work and what might not, then build it, then finally test it in real-world conditions and find out what we overlooked.
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Nope, the idea of this type of choices is "here's a problem, here're your options, try to figure out the correct one." Testing phase is for me to let you know why you choice worked or didn't. What you describe fits the brainstorm format, which is another beast with different rules.

Undeadmuffin01 said:
These are what we had to work with
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Should I have said "Retrofitting the drones with second generation engines would bring them well out of danger from ground-based troops fire if no helos are flying to intercept"? I kinda see your point, it's just this decision is not about managing trade-offs. I deliberately put 2 days for both options, so that it wasn't time vs risk. By your logic there's absolutely no sense to go with a smaller option, since you can have zero risk vs some risk. Why would I offer a choice like that? "You can press A or B, press A to win" [x] A [x] B.
 
Solark said:
Nope, the idea of this type of choices is "here's a problem, here're your options, try to figure out the correct one." Testing phase is for me to let you know why you choice worked or didn't. What you describe fits the brainstorm format, which is another beast with different rules.
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Training your players to behave and think through certain hoops in the gameplay only to just pull the rug out from under them and go "Here are the new rules, get cracking" isn't fun, that's just mean.
 
Solark said:
By your logic there's absolutely no sense to go with a smaller option, since you can have zero risk vs some risk. Why would I offer a choice like that
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My view (which wasn't based on anything said, I freely admit), was that the smaller drones would probably be cheaper/easier to manufacture since we kept the same engine and optics but at the cost of still being (less) vulnerable, while the largest drone would be costlier/harder to manufacture, since we needed new engine and optics, but at the advantage of being (near) invulnerable.

(EDIT: In the end it doesn't matter that much, I guess I was just wrong. It's fine, it's just a game)
 
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ShadowAngelBeta said:
Training your players to behave and think through certain hoops in the gameplay only to just pull the rug out from under them and go "Here are the new rules, get cracking" isn't fun, that's just mean.
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Iirc, we were told we'd get brainstorming rules in certain circumstances, not in every decision - we got a pretty simple binary choice here and we made the less optimal one because of a combination of miscalculating the benefits and misunderstanding the circumstances, it sucks but c'est la vie.

(Mind you I 100% could be misremembering, please do tell me if I'm wrong)
 
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ShadowAngelBeta said:
Training your players to behave and think through certain hoops in the gameplay only to just pull the rug out from under them and go "Here are the new rules, get cracking" isn't fun, that's just mean.
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Those are not new rules, this quest started with binary choices and brainstorm open vote type was introduced later. What exactly can I do better at this point? Would you prefer for all design votes to be the brainstorm type?

Undeadmuffin01 said:
My view (which wasn't based on anything said, I freely admit), was that the smaller drones would probably be cheaper/easier to manufacture since we kept the same engine and optics but at the cost of still being (less) vulnerable, while the largest drone would be costlier/harder to manufacture, since we needed new engine and optics, but at the advantage of being (near) invulnerable.
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I'm avoiding the issue of manufacturing and resources as much as I can, because I don't want this to be a base/org management spreadsheet-quest. When it's in play, I'll be mentioning it explicitly. You can count on me writing "you could make twice as many small drones" when it's the case (not now).
 
Failure is an option. We learned that when we messed up Destroyer's request by giving her proximity fuses instead of timed fuses.

Solark said:
Now about the mechanics: there is a limit to how nerdy (and knowledgeable) I can be in pursuing realism in this not-so-science-fiction setting. So instead of assuming stuff and then making you guess my assumptions based on our in-game knowledge, I do my best to put all the answers you need in the text itself. This means when Architect thinks smaller drones are going to be "very hard to spot and nearly impossible to hit", you can trust it. After all, everything she thought about the higher-flying drones turned out to be true too: they are out of reach of ground troops, but you did know from the earlier chapters that the enemy has helos and remote-controlled anti-UAV clouds.
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The bolded/underlined is something that is very good to know, and which I wish I had known going into the latest vote.

Anyway, I say we take the L and move on to the next project. We still have an iron in the fire regarding Dreamer and our future prisoner. And I'm curious to see Solark's take on other ringleaders.
 
Mechasaurian said:
Anyway, I say we take the L and move on to the next project. We still have an iron in the fire regarding Dreamer and our future prisoner. And I'm curious to see Solark's take on other ringleaders.
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Agreed, now that we know what to expect we can be prepared. Maybe brainstorming amongst ourselves before voting to really get a good idea of the situation.

EDIT: @Solark can we add something like:
[] move on
-[] Tell Scarecrow to be creative with the improved capacity: switching between low and high altitude to avoid cloud or ground fire, use altitude to spy at an odd angle, add a deadman code to turn the drone into a kamikaze against anti-UAV helicopters etc.
TLDR: Be creative bestie !

So while we don't make a new drone, we can at least give her pointers on how to use the improved capacity to at least partially patch the drone shortcoming ?
 
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Mechasaurian said:
The bolded/underlined is something that is very good to know, and which I wish I had known going into the latest vote.
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Now this is something I'm going to own up to. You're absolutely right, I'll do better going forward.

Undeadmuffin01 said:
EDIT: @Solark can we add something like:
[] move on
-[] Tell Scarecrow to be creative with the improved capacity: switching between low and high altitude to avoid cloud or ground fire, use altitude to spy at an odd angle, add a deadman code to turn the drone into a kamikaze against anti-UAV helicopters etc.
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Nope, because Architect is UnsTaBlE and about to cry 😭
Buuut, Scarecrow is smart enough on her own!
 
[x] smaller version (4d)

Yeah, as much as I hate spending 6 days on a "quick" 2-day project, we can't afford that 2x penalty. Last time, switching to the other prototype got rid of the debuff, and I'm willing to eat that time cost rather than having to deal with a depressed Architect in a brainstorming session.

Still, oooph on us failing every single coin-flip vote that's critically important. Except maybe the unstable grenades for Destroyer. That was just smuck bait.
 
Solark said:
Haha, yeah, that one was just asking for trouble. But you also masterfully avoided several pitfalls handling Intruder's request.
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Oh, the sort-of free form brainstorm then develop cycle we had with Intruder and to a lesser extent Agent we are good at. Give us a problem with no clear solutions and we'll come up with a meme solution that fixes almost every single problem there is while avoiding almost every pitfall.

It is the simple requests that we screw up. Give us any binary vote for different approaches that isn't solved with Mr. Sharky and we will screw it up.

This is why I want to continue helping out Scarecrow here. Our best work comes out with the freeform stuff, and I really don't want us having to pick a worse option because our 5-day solution now takes 10 days to complete.
 
Oracle of Space said:
Oh, the sort-of free form brainstorm then develop cycle we had with Intruder and to a lesser extent Agent we are good at. Give us a problem with no clear solutions and we'll come up with a meme solution that fixes almost every single problem there is while avoiding almost every pitfall.

It is the simple requests that we screw up. Give us any binary vote for different approaches that isn't solved with Mr. Sharky and we will screw it up.

This is why I want to continue helping out Scarecrow here. Our best work comes out with the freeform stuff, and I really don't want us having to pick a worse option because our 5-day solution now takes 10 days to complete.
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I much prefer the free-form brainstorming mechanics over attempting to guess the 'right' choice.
 
Solark said:
When Architect feels incompetent, she spends 2x time not because she's just peevy. She works twice as hard and double-checks everything, leaving herself no room for failure. That's all from me on the topic.
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I meant if backtracking to make the small drone will automatically remove the ''incompetent debuff'' or it randomly might or not
(But I understand if you want to keep that secret)
 
I believe the method of removing the "feels incompetent" debuff is simply to succeed at a project. It could be the drone thing, it could be something else.

Me, I just want to see Solark's take on a different Ringleader. We've spent plenty of time with 'Crow and 'Trudy already.
 
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    Chapter 17
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    • [x] move on
    Scarecrow: Attention all Ringleaders, G&K chopper in the air, sector 138-71, heading 215.

    Your eyes remain shut as you listen to her broadcast. She's neither blaming you nor cheering you up, handling the situation in her usual all-business manner.

    Scarecrow: Ground forces activity at 137-71. A single motorized platoon. Diverting Juliett Three and Lima One to engage.

    You can't bear to look at her, or to say goodbye. That's right, you're not going to fix this. Not this time. That's why you can't be here any longer. So you quietly stand up and exit the room without saying a word. Scarecrow will manage. She always does. You disregard burning sensation in your eyes, striding to the train as fast as you can without breaking into a run. You can't escape the failure, but at least you won't have to deal with anyone on top of it.

    A short ride back to the workshop was not enough. You don't want to do anything, can't even bring yourself to even read the next request. Tomorrow then. You know better than to fight this feeling, so you lie down and allow it to invade you, torment you, reliving the failure again and again. It's depressing and frustrating and mortifying, but with every passing minute it gets just a bit duller, a little more subdued. So you grit your teeth and endure. You can't allow it to drag you down tomorrow.


    It's morning, and you feel like shit. Your therapy has exhausted its usefulness, but you've more or less come in terms with what happened yesterday. Thinking about picking up a new project isn't filling you with disgust and denial anymore. You brace yourself and open the next request in you queue, which turns out to be from Executioner.

    Heya, Archi! Here's what I need: repair kits! Something I can use in the field to patch myself up. Damn cowards wear me out, their attacks are weak, but they add up. I can take on any of them when I'm fresh, but after a few battles in a row I'm no longer a match for their elites. And after a few more even their averages stand a good chance against me. Help me level the field, or I'll be stuck with base defense for the rest of my life!

    [x] Brainstorm
     
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    • [x] inside panel coating
    [x] expanding foam
    [x] Spare Part Doll (can use the doll arms, legs, and common panels with quick un/reattach)
     
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