When and where should I reincarnate?

  • As Princess Rhaenyra (Dance of Dragons Era)

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • As the daughter of Roose Bolton

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • North of the Wall (write in details)

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Commoner south of the Wall (write in details)

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
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Betha is born the daughter of an Innkeeper in the Riverland, but ever since she can remember, strange dreams come to her while she sleeps. Dreams of a different world, of the freedom to be oneself, and of curious knowledge that could help her and her friends change the world.
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Elevator pitch

Neko-tama

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I have a few ideas for possible asoiaf fics, but probably only patience for actually writing one of them, if that, so I wanna put it to a vote what you'd like to see me take a shot at.

The story is gonna be about a version of me being reborn in Westeros, with extreme longevity. The excuse totally legitimate reason for which I'll tailor to the specific situation.

I've got a pretty broad range of interests, science, philosophy, antropology, and manufacture among them, so I'll be able to do a lot regardless of when and where I land.

Importantly, I don't want to write this as a management sim competence wank, but have actual characters, dialogue, and emotions involved, though I will write this flying by the seat of my pants. No plans made beforehand.

About me:
I'm an anarchist, which will be the main thing in the story next to the tech I bring. I got amateur level knowledge on computer science, engineering, architecture, chemistry, physics, biology, sociology, biology, history, antropology, politics, philosophy, and more or less extensive experience with diy projects, working with wood, steel, clay, soil, leather, pitch, and basically anything you might find in your garden, or on a walk through the forest.

Them's the choices:

-Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen. If you ever wanted to see an anarchist become queen, and struggle with having to wield authority she thinks no-one should have in the first place.

-Roose Boltons daughter. Similar to the first choice, but not on top of the hierarchy, and instead of the Dance it's the Others that are the looming threat.

-North of the Wall. Start with basically nothing, and have to go from there. Interesting challenge. Write in the time, and further details that you think might make it interesting.

-Commoner south of the Wall. I don't just start with nothing, but also have to contend with the powers that be. Options here are manifold. A reaver from the Iron Islands, a peasant in the north, a barmaid in the Riverlands, etc. Write in your ideas for when and where that you think would make things interesting.








SV doesn't want to let me post this yet due to length (I actually just misunderstood which field did what, but now I already wrote this) so I'm gonna filler ramble a bit about my previous projects.

I've posted on SB before, started three stories there. The first, The OP pixie was kinda crackie. Fun to write at first. The size, and mutenes of the MC made for a neat writing challenge, but it wasn't going anywhere, and I got into Gamer stories, so I started one of those, which turned out pretty well, but I kept overthinking the system, as I tend to do, so I stopped after a Purity interlude that was both hell to write, and poorly received.

I gave the Gamer shtick another go with a revised system and a different MC that would be easier to keep consistent, but it didn't flow, and I was putting too much pressure on myself to get everything right to have any fun with it, so that tapered out as well.

More recently I'm planning another Worm fic with a bio/nanotech tinker MC, which I'm trying to outline and everything in advance. It's gonna be great, I'm convinced, but I like to write just for fun and see where it takes me, so that's where this story comes in. There are gonna be plot holes, and inconsistencies, and poorly thought out ideas, and here, that's gonna be OK.

I also like to do art for my stories, though how good I am at it... You be the judge of that. I think I'm pretty decent considering how rarely I actually do artwork.

Anyway, enough of this. Don't forget to write in.
 
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Canon's depiction of various cultures as uncultured, vicious, and simply unreasonable is direct repeating of colonialist rhetoric. Whole societies inexplicably depicted as pillagers or murderous cannibals, no clear answer to the question of how exactly the Dothraki, the "Wildlings," Skagosi, or the Ironborn are maintaining their populations. Just whole chunks of the map operating like the Pirate-Port of Tortuga, which wasn't exactly very large or long-lasting.

An Anarchist take on Game of Thrones can repudiate that, showing a more realistic depiction of the societies these fictional ones are defaming.

Show the careful, deliberate stockpiling of food foraged from carefully managed woodlands by the Wildlings in preparation for Winter. The appreciation for the preciousness of human life that is shared by all such cultures where life is so difficult. Their traditions of carefully managed group decision making that finds an acceptable way forwards for all the people in the group, so as not to risk the catastrophe of intra-group violence that could potentially condemn them all to starve.

Show the largely fishing-based lives of the Ironborn nautical culture in defiance of the delusions of their Reactionary overlords. Their seasonal and even permanent ports and settlements up and down the coast of a continent, where they are not-rarely set upon in the night by hateful, religiously-homogenistic mainlanders who deny their right to exist as they have since time eternal, and births the bitterness and desperation in the folk that the aforementioned reactionary overlords take advantage of for their own brutal agendas.

Show... uh, a completely reworked from the bottom up Dothraki. Like, either Dothraki reproduce by spores like Orks, or nearly everything about them is logistically infeasible. At least the Ironborn are mentioned to fish and run trade routs, what the f^%$ are the Dothraki eating? Almost everything I can find reference to is some variation on horseflesh, which sure they have but Horses are A) not an animal bred foremost for its meat, and B) only breed so fast, and by all appearances the Dothraki have next to no goats, sheep, camels, cattle, or other major staples of (for example) Mongol diet. Where's the dairy, the yogurt?

Sorry, got distracted ranting about Martin's view of the humanity of other people, and namely how it matches that of an agoraphobic medieval monk. I'll get back on topic.






I like the idea of a Giant North of the Wall. Cheating a bit to make your words heard at first, cause you're real big and incumbent hierarchy structures beyond the Wall will have trouble just knocking you over the head. You can make a number of strong Anarchist arguments from an interpretation of the Old Gods faith as practiced in the True North.

The Old Gods abhor slavery, what do you call what the southern lords do to their smallfolk? What makes their smallfolk "theirs," or for that matter, "small?" "We Do Not Kneel" is a pretty solid cultural-translation of "No Gods No Masters" for a culture which doesn't have a homogenizing religion. Slavery has not yet been defeated while there yet lives one person who must kneel to another!

Further appealing to Freefolk democratic traditions as a jumping off point for a system to forever free the whole world from Lords.

A good first target for exporting the Revolution after the True North stands together would be Skagos, in my mind, as its barely even in contact with the mainland, nevermind loyalty. Depending on the time of year, it may not even be necessary to construct transports: in past centuries, it was sometimes possible to walk to Greenland from Iceland across the ice over winter, and upper Skagos ain't that far from hardholm.

I think an interesting "When" could be far-enough-back for a recently realized Anarchy Beyond The Wall to have been established a few years prior to Robert's Rebellion. With The North's attention firmly South, its an excellent time for moving into the many abandoned portions of The Wall, and launching from there to both seizing The Gift and, thus surrounded, eradicating the Crows.

If you're of a stations-of-canon mindset, this could lead to a settled peace with the Iron Throne, and resumed hostilities during the War of Five Kings. If you're brave, pushing into the Gift creates a spiraling commitment against the Umbars which draws in closely allied lords into a fight against the Freefolk, whom are enthusiastically selling smallfolk on the benefits of Anarchy.

Stark's focus on the War in the South could create a rift in the Lords, as he seemingly neglects the advancing adversary closer to home. I can imagine a scene where Last Hearth is cracked open with the aid of outraged smallfolk within the Walls, leading to a visceral scene of the captured members of house Umbar being rounded up the godswood for a trial, which sees them each confronted with the options of renouncing their holdings, titles, dynastic-name, etc, or being fed to their own Weirwood. Reguardless of how many of them make the smart decision, that scene would light a terror in the hearts of many Lords.

Stark would have to either abandon the War in the South for now or face mass disertion or even rebellion by many of his Lords. Either option allows for fun, acanonical events in the Rebellion. If its early enough, an early Targaryen victory. But I'd make a great deal of effort to work out a way for this to happen while the Targaryens are still a viable faction but the Lannisters have already committed themselves against them before Tywin could learn how badly things were going in the North.

Double Bonus points for Aerys successfully destroying Kings Landing with Wildfyre, killing Tywin and wiping out the better part of the Westerlands' best men and equipment. With everyone involved dead, its possible that Tywin's intention to join Robert's side will be lost in the chaos, at least for a while, leading Tyrion to feel obligated to try to cement his shaky position by "re"affirming the Westerlands' commitment to the Targaryen cause.

Meanwhile, the Two Norths move into a new phase of the War.

The alternate post-rebellion political layout could be fascinating. Do the Starks succeed in stopping the Anarchists, or do they advance right to the Neck? Can the discordant Targaryen loyalists get their shit together and win now that Aerys isn't mucking things up anymore, with Viserys as a puppet child-King? Or can Baratheon maintain his momentum and move strongly against the Reach occupation in the Stormlands, Arynn get some horse-trading done with lords in the Westerlands, and the War turns into an inexorable push for Highgarden?

What of the Capitol? The Targaryen Loyalists will want to re-establish Kingslanding, but in the short term they need an actual fortified base of operations. What about Robert? Is he just going to declare Storm's End his capitol, and risk being seen by less-committed lords not as a viable King of Westeros but rather as a Secessionist Storm King? The Iron Throne is gone, how much long-term legitimacy is anyone claiming a right to it going to have without the ancestral symbol of the united Westeros?

The Peace would not be lasting, that's for sure.
 
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you say long living... if your goal is a sort of anarchic society, it should be a long story... knowledge must be widely available for 'commoners' to make good decisions. start as rhaenyra during the dance. force maesters to split into every kingdom and guide them into widespread teaching. start walking up the tech tree, and get to ww1/2 level by cannon start.
 
I mean, the easiest place for an anarchist group to really start is probably the bannerhood without brothers, taking the "literally knight everyone" and the "we are definitely a monarchy, we just happen to serve a king who only breathes infrequently" thing
 
I would prefer a commoner in the South, in Kings Landing for example. SI into noble is done to death and being north of the Wall with the Others comming is the last place I would want to be. One thing tho, how is going to be anarchist be possible in such society? Not trying to go too political, but I thought you need a more advance society first to abolish such hierarchies, specially if the scope is going to be all of Westeros. I don't know if comparable, but is like some SI fics try to introduce democracy to the Middle Ages without much thought on why or how.
 
One thing tho, how is going to be anarchist be possible in such society? Not trying to go too political, but I thought you need a more advance society first to abolish such hierarchies, specially if the scope is going to be all of Westeros. I don't know if comparable, but is like some SI fics try to introduce democracy to the Middle Ages without much thought on why or how.

There is a logistical issue on that scale; as a guideline Anarchy is more successful as access to information increases. That said, there is no requirement for such. Various indigenous peoples such as the Cheyenne or certain strains of Daoism have operated in terms of true Direct Democracy, ie Anarchy.

On a continental scale it'd be quite difficult to maintain cohesion prior to the invention of the printing press. Group investment in good roads and shipping infrastructure, both things which are beneficial to the community in any case, would make things simpler but only to a point. The tensions of a large Anarchy trying to reconcile the disparate interests of far-flung Communes could itself be an interesting source of conflict for a story. Further, I'd expect that most Communes would tend to associate more closely with those other Communes whom are most geographically, culturally, and religiously close to their own in any case, both due to convenience as well as a matter of shared interests and problems.

Its worth understanding that may Anarchist theorists don't believe that perfect Anarchy is "attainable," in a similar way in that most Jewish theologians doesn't consider Justice "attainable." Rather, it is a verb, an ideal which is to be striven for at all times and places in one's life.
 
The final decision
Alright everyone, thanks for your input. Going by the numbers between here and SB the most requested would be Rhaenyra, however, as has been pointed out, nobility SIs have been done to death, and also somebody expressed scepticism about the ability of a barmaid to affect social change in a way that really rubbed me the wrong way, so I've decided to write that partially out of spite, partially because I might actually end up writing something original.
 
Alright everyone, thanks for your input. Going by the numbers between here and SB the most requested would be Rhaenyra, however, as has been pointed out, nobility SIs have been done to death, and also somebody expressed scepticism about the ability of a barmaid to affect social change in a way that really rubbed me the wrong way, so I've decided to write that partially out of spite, partially because I might actually end up writing something original.

A recent vote by 100% of the involved persons has yielded a unanimous decision that they prefers to write about a barmaid! The system works!
 
Oh, I forgot to vote in the poll!
So, kings landing or the inn at the crossroads?
 
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I was just saying to myself earlier this week "You know what I need in my life? Literally any amount of explicitly leftist SI fanfiction." I am incredibly eager to see where this goes.
 
I was just saying to myself earlier this week "You know what I need in my life? Literally any amount of explicitly leftist SI fanfiction." I am incredibly eager to see where this goes.
Glad you're excited, but you should know that between a full time job, and various other hobbies this might be slow.
 
I am curious;

-How politicly driven the fic will be? In the sense how much the focus of the mc is going to achive her political goals and how big the scope of those goals is going to be?

-How realistic the fic wil be? Not that x political proyect is impossible but more how... the stars are going to allign to favor, or not the mc? In fics the spectrum can varie from "It turns out I am the bastard of Robert and Stannis adopt me the first time we meet and every one likes me and rob falls in love at first sight" to "I die of cholera at age 13, thanks KL sanatary state" While the extreme are usually boring/unpleasent, there is nothing wrong to have some luck. Sometimes is neccesary to have drama an interesting story.
 
As far as I understand it Feudal systems tend to smash Anarchic systems due to their ability to quickly mobilise and utilise military force. A Medieval Feudal society is even more violently hostile to the ideas of Anarchism than even the nation states of the 19th century as seen in the generally terrible fates of religious anarchic groups in Christendom and the Islamic world.

I could only see an Anarchic revolution working in the South if it were timed well at a point where the Nobility are exhausted but the Peasantry are relatively untouched which I'm unsure of how it could happen without mass assassinations.
The trouble as far as I can see comes from how difficult amassing power and resources is in a given lifetime, Westeros isn't even sophisticated enough to have a true Burgher class yet as far as I can recall, never mind any sort of Middle-Class that can challenge the power of the Nobles and Royalty.

Doing it without violence would require charisma and wisdom of legendary proportions.

That said all sorts of democratic systems worked for peasants among peasants for centuries and San Marino stands as a testament to surviving under the nose of greater and more violent powers.
 
I am curious;

-How politicly driven the fic will be? In the sense how much the focus of the mc is going to achive her political goals and how big the scope of those goals is going to be?

-How realistic the fic wil be? Not that x political proyect is impossible but more how... the stars are going to allign to favor, or not the mc? In fics the spectrum can varie from "It turns out I am the bastard of Robert and Stannis adopt me the first time we meet and every one likes me and rob falls in love at first sight" to "I die of cholera at age 13, thanks KL sanatary state" While the extreme are usually boring/unpleasent, there is nothing wrong to have some luck. Sometimes is neccesary to have drama an interesting story.
- I'm hoping to write mainly character focused, in the moment kind of scenes with as little broad recapitulation as possible, though it is the kind of story that probably demands at least some of that.

- My character isn't gonna turn out to be nobility, nor have any positive relationship with nobility beyond what is required to not get decapitated by some disgruntled lordling.
As for luck... Well I want to rely on that as little as I can, but thematically, I have no interest in depicting the futility of anarchism. Make of that what you will.

The trouble as far as I can see comes from how difficult amassing power and resources is in a given lifetime, Westeros isn't even sophisticated enough to have a true Burgher class yet as far as I can recall, never mind any sort of Middle-Class that can challenge the power of the Nobles and Royalty.
The nature of feudalism is indeed something of a challenge.

One problem is that land can't really be purchased, since owning land is the privilege of nobility, and they see themselves more as stewards than owners, which makes the idea of selling land not just unpalatable, but downright bizarre, which makes projects like food souvreignty, and independent community building basically impossible.

I don't know if it would really be spoilers exactly to reveal what one might do about that, but I've got something like a plan or two in mind.
 
My guess as the best start would be to do something like the Sparrows, a movement I've never actually seen show up in any ASOIAF fic. They're already a massive social movement of the realm's downtrodden, unified through religion being taken seriously as opposed to just being a system of control for the upper class.

Now throw in some Leveller and Digger ideas in there about equality before the law and common land ownership, and you've got something going!
 
Ooh, the example of the Sparrows is actually very interesting! I hadn't thought of them and I even mentioned religious anarchism.

That would probably be one of the better ways to get low education peasants to buy into the idea rather than traditional hierarchies.

It does put a lot of power in the hands of religious leaders of course.
 
Sure, but consider: No Banners. No Kings. No Lords but Light.
Also, the Brotherhood has the advantages that its a movement which has its concentration and leadership distributed widely accross the countryside, rather than being centered on those already displaced, that it is a new religion without connections to the social and reactionary order of westeros, and that it could gain some connection to the more liberationist essossi religious groups, notably Moqorro. And Moqorro is, in fact, cool as hell, so. Also, the miracles actually happen, they actually try and aid the peasantry, and they have the advantage of their magic actually working.
The Stony sept could very well turn anarchist: it alreeady has a peasant leader.
 
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I like this one. I am curious how an Anarchist would deal having "all" the power (for that sweet irony) and make a functional society and not accidentally get everyone killed.
-Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen. If you ever wanted to see an anarchist become queen, and struggle with having to wield authority she thinks no-one should have in the first place.
[X] Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen
 
Humble beginnings - 01
"Can I open my eyes yet?" Edd asked, clearly getting antsy.

"Almost there," I reassured him. "Careful not to stumble over that root there, aand now!"

He opened his eyes to look at the little valley now before him. A frown made it's way onto his face. "You dragged me through the forest for half an age to show me... Trees?"

"It's more than that! Look closer!"

He strained his eyes before they went wide. "It's empty."

"Completely untouched," I confirmed. "Nobody lives within a quarter day's march from here. I checked."

I could see the gears turning in his head. "Isn't it too long a walk from home to be a secret base though? We'll hardly have much time to come here very often."

I shrugged. "You win some, you lose some. We can have a base that's easy to reach, or one that's actually gonna stay secret. I don't have to tell you how important it is that we stay undiscovered."

A shadow that had no business being on the pale features of an eight year old flickered over his face. His knuckles turned white as he clenched his fists.

"Well make them pay," I put my hand on his shoulders, and gave a gentle squeeze. "We just need to stick to my plan."

He nodded, and let out a breath. "Magic."

"Technology," I corrected reflexively.

Predictably, he rolled his eyes, the piercing dark green of his irises, and the contrast to his normally stern expression making for an oddly funny picture.

"Anything here you can use?" He asked instead of continuing the old debate.

I nodded. "Plenty! There is a little stream with a waterfall, extensive clay beds, a little cave, and plenty of limestone and quartz in the cliff face over there. Plus, plenty of trees, and a bunch of stinging nettles!"

He still seemed skeptical. "And you can make spells with that that can kill a knight?"

"In time." I shot him a dirty look. "More importantly, I can make things that will make us rich. We just need some tools, and as much metal as we can get."

"Yeah, yeah." He knew that I knew that he knew. I drilled the plan into his head at every opportunity after all. I couldn't help but fret though. We were eight after all, and children were all idiots when it came to keeping secrets, and measured action.

"Remember. I need a-"

"A saw more than anything else. Yes. You've said, Betha. A quadgillion times."

"That's not an actual number," I muttered, crossing my arms, and focusing on the valley that spread before us instead of my only best friend.

"So, what do we need to do?"

That put a grin on my face, and I pulled - in lue of an actual shovel - my knife from its sheath. "Get ready to dig up some clay! We'll need a lot of bricks!"



Hey everybody! Sorry I took so long to get started on this, I was insanely busy the last months with work, and trying to organize some stuff IRL, so I have very little opportunity, and energy for writing. I'm still pretty swamped, so expect infrequent and short updates like this one for the next while.

I'm going to work a lot with description, and characterization by implication. I know that it's gonna bite me in the ass when people inevitably want this or that explained directly and explicitly, and especially once someone grasps a few implications that I hadn't thought of, but hey. We're all just here to have some fun.
 
Forget "somewhere, a commander builds a Metal Extractor", it's all about "somewhere, a normal human builds a clay oven."
 
if the discussion around the story & its possible directions is any indication, this'll be thought-provoking!
 
Forget "somewhere, a commander builds a Metal Extractor", it's all about "somewhere, a normal human builds a clay oven."
Yeah. Researching just how far you could feasibly go up the tech tree without a whole lot of supporting infrastructure was, and continues to be quite enlightening. It's amazing what a bit of knowledge about chemistry, biology, and engineering can really do for you.
 
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