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Alternate Universe : Texas V.S California

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The Lone Star Republic is a bitter enemy of the much maligned New Californian Republic. This is...
Janus

Janus

Location
America
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He/Him/His
The Lone Star Republic is a bitter enemy of the much maligned New Californian Republic. This is an alternate universe where both states are basically their own countries, and for some Twilight Zone reason the rest of the country doesn't exist. California wants America, and Texas wants America. They both have 21st century technology.

An alternate situation is that they have 20th century technology, and finally a third situation where everything is 19th century.
 
California has better defensive terrain, so we let the Texans break themselves trying to claw their way over the desert and mountain regions of the border. :V
 
Texas has better access to the rest of the North American continent, so they can win "simply" by containing California.
Also, they can drill for their own oil and do not have to trade for it.

Does 20th/21st century technology include nukes?
 
Rakaziel said:
Texas has better access to the rest of the North American continent, so they can win "simply" by containing California.
Also, they can drill for their own oil and do not have to trade for it.

Does 20th/21st century technology include nukes?
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GabeC1997 said:
Kind of a two way street there.
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Ah, but nothing happening is a failure condition for Texas, because California's existence is an insult to conservatives. Similarly, California wants nothing more than to be left alone and not have to deal with the US's shit.

As such, there's no scenario that isn't a Californian victory.
 
Cloak&Dagger said:
Ah, but nothing happening is a failure condition for Texas, because California's existence is an insult to conservatives. Similarly, California wants nothing more than to be left alone and not have to deal with the US's shit.

As such, there's no scenario that isn't a Californian victory.
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You realize that without any outside resources being funneled into it it's going to crumble right? There's only so much work a person can put out before you need to start siphoning off the efforts of others to increase the living standards of a few, and there's no foreign slave labor sweatshops to force all the work on while maintaining the illusion of moral superiority.
 
GabeC1997 said:
You realize that without any outside resources being funneled into it it's going to crumble right? There's only so much work a person can put out before you need to start siphoning off the efforts of others to increase the living standards of a few, and there's no foreign slave labor sweatshops to force all the work on while maintaining the illusion of moral superiority.
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Yes, being forced to pay more for resources and facing trade barriers we might go from $66k per capita to $60k per capita!

Ahhhhh! Not $60k per capita, anything but that!
 
Cloak&Dagger said:
Yes, being forced to pay more for resources and facing trade barriers we might go from $66k per capita to $60k per capita!

Ahhhhh! Not $60k per capita, anything but that!
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Sure, if you only pay attention to a small slice of the world while ignoring everything outside of it. The Confederacy used Africans, the Soviets used political dissenters, the Nazis used Jews, China is currently using Muslims, and America is outsourcing it to foreigners because We're too good to do it ourselves while receiving the benefits all the same. Why do you think Chinese manufacturing is so cheap, despite the massive costs for shipping? And if your thinking "But global trade stimulates the economy" that's historically because it created new demands for goods that couldn't be found at home (Like how certain spices were only grown in specific regions) or because nations were engaging in unfair business practices (like how Americans were being unfairly taxed by England, alongside all the other colonies), not because the worker costs were magically lower.

And if that's all too old for you, there's the fact that America has been running on a deficit ever since all these social welfare practices were put into effect. That means America is literally incapable of producing enough work (collected via taxes) to pay for it themselves, and yet we're somehow still getting the resources to implement them.

Edit: Here is a link to just some companies utilizing slave labor, all of which are subject to paying taxes to the United States of America. I trust you can use Google to find more.
 
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GabeC1997 said:
You realize that without any outside resources being funneled into it it's going to crumble right?
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That's much more a Texas problem than a California problem. Without being propped up and restrained by the "Blue States" I would expect any Red State to pretty rapidly collapse. All California has to do is hold out and watch Texas eat itself.

EDIT: Plus, in this scenario California can just use Texas as its source of downtrodden and impoverished labor.
 
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Cloak&Dagger said:
Ah, but nothing happening is a failure condition for Texas, because California's existence is an insult to conservatives. Similarly, California wants nothing more than to be left alone and not have to deal with the US's shit.

As such, there's no scenario that isn't a Californian victory.
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Modern Texas is only like 55% Conservative my dude.

Avernus said:
That's much more a Texas problem than a California problem. Without being propped up and restrained by the "Blue States" I would expect any Red State to pretty rapidly collapse. All California has to do is hold out and watch Texas eat itself.

EDIT: Plus, in this scenario California can just use Texas as its source of downtrodden and impoverished labor.
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Texas is also unique in that despite being a "Red" state it exports GDP rather than imports it. It is not being propped up by anyone, it in fact is propping up other states. Texas is not fucking Georgia. It's not Mississippi. Texas is Rich like very few other states can claim.

In this scenario it also has the enormous territory of the continent east of the Rockies to expand into, direct access to the bread basket of the great plains and the Mississippi river. California has some rocks and sand. And Washington state I guess.
 
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California and Texas are both states that can stand on their own, they can function without the federal government as they create far more in US revenue than they take in support. They would also be capable of indefinite autarky given time to reorient their economies. (Though why either would bother in a world that predisposes international economies still exist would be another question but they can in fact do this). So what do I see happening?

Well it depends on what quantum superposition of the US existing but not existing that is going on. Because if we go the US doesn't exist but everything it has presently somehow does in this Texas versus California universe, then California wins because for all that the Pantex Plant is located in Texas (Nuclear warhead disassembly/assembly) it doesn't have the same WMD striking power as California does which inherited large parts of the US Navy, US Marines, and US air force. with specifically the Navy operating nuclear subs. In a world where calmer heads didn't prevail, Texas loses, because once those subs are out at sea, Texas has no way of stopping a second strike. Much less a first strike.

Now assuming that both states are blood lusted, and despite the sudden nonexistence of the rest of the US have the logistical cajones to fight each other conventionally and hold off on deployment of WMDs I'd still slew towards California winning. Heavily. First, California is home to 32 military installations (California Military Bases | Military Council) as opposed to Texas's 13 (Texas' Military Installations.) 15 if you go by (Texas Military Bases | 15 Bases | MilitaryBases.com) though keep in mind MB.com seems to count closed bases. This is a terrible way to approximate their military strength so lets keep expanding and look at this nice page provided by (U.S. Military Installations in Texas) 73,100 Active Duty Army, 6,429 Active Duty Navy & Marines, 24,532 Active Duty Air Force, 5,340 National Guard and reserves for all four being generously rounded up to 10,000. Not small at all even with the understanding that most won't be combat ready troops and that Texas probably has a few thousand more it could call on not listed here. For California I couldn't find a similar list on short notice so we'll crib notes from a Golden Island to the West and Instant Sunrise who's ISOT has the California of 2018 transposed back in time and simply have to live with the fact that this comparison is really slap dash. (A Golden Island To The West — California ISOT from 2018 to 1850 Original - 19th Century - Supernatural). A quick cursory look at numbers makes it at least seem to weigh heavily in California's favor. (90,000~ US Marines alone.) This of course predisposes some sort of grand make or break battle with everything but numbers thrown by the wayside, but the point stands. Only through superior apportionment of it's military forces can Texas win, especially since California got a lot more of non-existent US's Military Industrial Complex (Talk about blessing and curse.) And more of the US's mothballed equipment (and equipment in general.). Finally however let us look at population as of 2019 29 Million people live in Texas to 39.5 Million in California. To me it seems in a no holds barred war where no one has the critical thinking skills to realize how dumb it all is California wins as its got, larger stockpiles, a larger base population, inherited more of the non-existent US's military and more of the technical and capital intensive production that you would need to maintain those forces. (More advanced manufacturing capability in other terms. I can't find the original source I used for this way back in 2017 but I presume it is still true, feel free to hit me up with a clue by four if it isn't.) As well as large military contractors as a legacy of the now non-existent US.
 
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Janus said:
The Lone Star Republic is a bitter enemy of the much maligned New Californian Republic. This is an alternate universe where both states are basically their own countries, and for some Twilight Zone reason the rest of the country doesn't exist. California wants America, and Texas wants America. They both have 21st century technology.

An alternate situation is that they have 20th century technology, and finally a third situation where everything is 19th century.
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You do now there are two state between them that separates them, ore are those two states divided between California and Texas.
 
Janus said:
Erm economies from city states that are independent from Texas and California.
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So there's no sudden trade collapse, but we can just assume the entire US is about $5-10k per capita poorer?

A few states I guess would be much poorer still, Nevada doesn't really have a reason to exist without gambling and military spending.
 
Janus said:
I would assume no trade collapse. Maybe the Californian Republic and Texas might even be richer through exploitation if they choose to be dirt bags. :🤷:
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Exactly, I was about to say that Cali and Texas can beat the shit out of every state around them.

Is the post-WW2 Western 'No Annexation' rule still in effect? Because Cali and Texas can just walk into most of their neighbors and take vital territory for themselves. Cali and Texas will want to just annex the entire Colorado and Rio Grande/Mississippi Rivers, respectively.
 
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Cloak&Dagger said:
Exactly, I was about to say that Cali and Texas can beat the shit out of every state around them.

Is the post-WW2 Western 'No Annexation' rule still in effect? Because Cali and Texas can just walk into most of their neighbors and take vital territory for themselves. Cali and Texas will want to just annex the entire Colorado and Rio Grande/Mississippi Rivers, respectively.
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They probably would do just that. I assume they will because despite being California and Texas, they are not part of a "United States".
 
Janus said:
They probably would do just that. I assume they will because despite being California and Texas, they are not part of a "United States".
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Well then how things go depends on the East Coast. Texas will expand until someone in the East stops it, and California has basically nothing stopping it from taking the entire West Coast and Rocky Mountains if it wants.

If Texas faces a giant Neo-Confederacy in the East then it won't be able to stop California from doing whatever it wants, and I doubt Michigan is going to stop California from pushing into the Great Plains.

Are Canada and Mexico still united or are they split up into their states as well?
 
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Janus said:
There are no such things as Canada and Mexico.
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Excellent, then British Columbia will make a path for California to take Alaska, and Baja California can be reunited with California, and California can make the Pacific States of America.

How are the independent Mexican states? Do they have Spanish Colony Disease like the rest of Latin America, or are they more developed ITTL?
 
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Cloak&Dagger said:
Excellent, then British Columbia will make a path for California to take Alaska, and Baja California can be reunited with California, and California can make the Pacific States of America.

How are the independent Mexican states? Do they have Spanish Colony Disease like the rest of Latin America, or are they more developed?
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I think the Spanish maybe have Spanish Colony disease.
 
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