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Alt History ideas, rec and general dicussion thread

Not sure if this has been proposed before, since Business Plot related 2ACW TLs aren't my forte but:
The Business Plot proceeds and kicks of the secon, but either through overestimating the ability/popularity of whichever would-be military figurehead they come with in place of Butler or MacArthurwith troops or assuming that the less-than-thrilled-with-Roosevelt (and more numerous than a bunch of obscenely rich men and their toadies) conservative parts of America would fall in line without the necessary legwork; you end up with everyone to the left of the Silver Legion/what's left of the Klan/Henry Ford caught so flat footed they end up stuck on the loyalist side; no doubt setting the stage for round 3
 
i have a question.
is there any alternate history that is depressing
i mean like twilight of the red tsar
where nukes are flying and there is so much death and destruction
do you know any alternate history like this?
i feel like i read too many wholsome ones.
 
gooderyan said:
i have a question.
is there any alternate history that is depressing
i mean like twilight of the red tsar
where nukes are flying and there is so much death and destruction
do you know any alternate history like this?
i feel like i read too many wholsome ones.
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For All Time is the spiritual ancestor of a ton of the modern dystopian TLs. To be honest, a lot of the dystopic TLs fall under the "cringeworthy alternate history" category for me, but I'm willing to give For All Time a pass because it originated a ton of tropes that later TLs rehashed, so I think some of my distaste is coming from less well-crafted TLs following the same beats as For All Time.
 
hydra1234 said:
For All Time is the spiritual ancestor of a ton of the modern dystopian TLs. To be honest, a lot of the dystopic TLs fall under the "cringeworthy alternate history" category for me, but I'm willing to give For All Time a pass because it originated a ton of tropes that later TLs rehashed, so I think some of my distaste is coming from less well-crafted TLs following the same beats as For All Time.
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can you please give me the link?
and the link of other "Cringe worthy" TL's?
 
Has anyone ever done a timeline with McKinley surviving? Or alternately Garfield, who frankly didn't deserve to go out like he did.
 
gooderyan said:
can you please give me the link?
and the link of other "Cringe worthy" TL's?
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Any of Sorario's timelines, but I've really hesitant to recommend those to anybody and they portray what is a dystopia based on the events that happened (e.g. mass use of WMDs, nuclear exchanges, etc.) as "better than OTL."

There's SM Stirling's The Draka. Anything after that, just search for "dystopia" in this thread: What's the most Cringeworthy Alternate History you've ever read? Post-1900.

Actually, the only other dystopian TL I can think about that I would recommend would be this Soylent Green TL: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...reen-a-short-eco-apocalyptic-timeline.515933/
 
hydra1234 said:

Any of Sorario's timelines, but I've really hesitant to recommend those to anybody and they portray what is a dystopia based on the events that happened (e.g. mass use of WMDs, nuclear exchanges, etc.) as "better than OTL."

There's SM Stirling's The Draka. Anything after that, just search for "dystopia" in this thread: What's the most Cringeworthy Alternate History you've ever read? Post-1900.

Actually, the only other dystopian TL I can think about that I would recommend would be this Soylent Green TL: https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...reen-a-short-eco-apocalyptic-timeline.515933/
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thank's about F.A.T
but i literally wont go near soylent green because it's too horrible even for me...
but i read all of the others except fat
 
Perused the Soylent timeline. Not very depressing or interesting.

What makes dystopic timelines dystopian to me is that a mostly terrible world CONTRASTS with a little bit of hope. Pain is made worse when it is paired with hope. A mostly bad world is more depressing than a all bad world.

Like the reason alternate history dystopias are boring is because at a certain point saying "and then there was another gigadeath event...and another one" isn't interesting because at some point you have to say "OK, what's being lost? You haven't depicted any chance for people to escape this or what they are losing."

Green Antartica is a great example of this because the Tsalal, as depicted, don't do anything but murder-torture-rape everything in sight 24/7. That's just not *interesting*. It's lame.
 
king of hybrids said:
Wasn't Reds! at least partially based upon McKinley's survival and no progressive era under TR as one of its POD?
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Yes

gooderyan said:
i have a question.
is there any alternate history that is depressing
i mean like twilight of the red tsar
where nukes are flying and there is so much death and destruction
do you know any alternate history like this?
i feel like i read too many wholsome ones.
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What Madness is This? is pretty bleak, the pitch black comedy just helps it go down easier.
 
Born in the USSA said:
What Madness is This? is pretty bleak, the pitch black comedy just helps it go down easier.
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It also helps if you chalk some of the weirder aspects of the TL up to the machinations of the Elder Gods, although by "machinations" I think they're just screwing around for their own amusement.

And the cocaine, of course. Can't forget the cocaine.
 
Jake said:
It also helps if you chalk some of the weirder aspects of the TL up to the machinations of the Elder Gods, although by "machinations" I think they're just screwing around for their own amusement.

And the cocaine, of course. Can't forget the cocaine.
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I mean they basically worship Nyarlathotep and an extremely detached and wrathful Old Testament God. And can't forget the cocaine, it's part of a balanced diet in the Union.
 
Popping back on here after a bit to recommend four timelines for those on AH.com (my own summaries in italics):
  • The Center Cannot Hold: A History of the Second American Civil War (Sean McKnight) - as detailed as ever, and elaborates on a bunch of plot points that have been altered from his prior DeviantArt version. After a chaotic 2028 election, Donald Trump Jr. declares his secession from the United States, beginning a years-long civil war that pits the American federal government against Trumpism as a whole. Timeline has been completed, with a few retcons here and there.
  • The Consequences of Trivial Causes: a Timeline of the Second American Civil War (AkhenatenOrRamses) - a somewhat unique take on a 2ACW, different enough from TCCH to make it interesting in its own right, Enraged by a narrow defeat in the 2024 election, Donald Trump and his allies declare an America of their own. The resulting conflict spans several years, and sees the nation grapple over Trumpism and its aftermath.
  • Ad Distantia Astra Per Aspera, Ad Posterum Humanitas (AstroRangerBeans) - rather interesting take on SV's own Leaving the Cradle, blended with a few other timelines from AH.com like The Death of Russia. Follow the United States throughout the 21st century, as it experiences political polarization, revolution, and catastrophe. Currently finished up to 2029.
  • Backs Against The Wall (New Potomac) - I particularly like this one because it goes in-depth into examining late-2010s American politics, to the point that it serves as a spiritual successor to Fear, Loathing, and Gumbo. The migrant caravan is moved a month earlier than in OTL. What effect could that ever have? As it turns out, it's enough to make 2018 a blue wave, and alter the stage for the upcoming 2020 election.
 
Born in the USSA said:
I mean they basically worship Nyarlathotep and an extremely detached and wrathful Old Testament God. And can't forget the cocaine, it's part of a balanced diet in the Union.
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i do have a question
if i were to include a WMIT nation (maybe NUSA ) in a map game ,should i include the eldritch aspect's of it ?
and which nation is the most deranged or "interesting" in your opinion?
i say napoleonic france because i love the totalitarian monarchist european aesthetic.
 
gooderyan said:
i do have a question
if i were to include a WMIT nation (maybe NUSA ) in a map game ,should i include the eldritch aspect's of it ?
and which nation is the most deranged or "interesting" in your opinion?
i say napoleonic france because i love the totalitarian monarchist european aesthetic.
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The best part is that the occult stuff is ambiguous enough it could literally just be cocaine fueled vibes run amok. As for most interesting I thought the Beutelists were a neat concept though I'd probably say the Illuminists and whatever the hell is going on in China. Also CoCaro and its CoCorean puppet state are a fun second stringer to the NUSA.
 
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gooderyan said:
i have a question.
is there any alternate history that is depressing
i mean like twilight of the red tsar
where nukes are flying and there is so much death and destruction
do you know any alternate history like this?
i feel like i read too many wholsome ones.
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It's a Lovely Day, Tomorrow by EBR has an Axis victory, with it right now covering the twenty years after in 1965 and, after that, the post collapse in the 70s.
 
SadSack said:
It's a Lovely Day, Tomorrow by EBR has an Axis victory, with it right now covering the twenty years after in 1965 and, after that, the post collapse in the 70s.
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Currently he's on the Empire of Japan - which he is depicting as a slightly more conventional colonial empire with an explotative relationship to its neighbours and ruled by a very authoritarian but hazily fascist monoparty headed by Kishi Nobusuke.... oh wait, hang on a minute, I'm looking at the wikipedia page.

On a more serious note, has there been any post-war Japan timelines which result in the the Liberal Democratic Party not becoming so overwhelmingly dominant?
 
What's the maximum 'things go really, really well for the Hapsburgs after the Congress of Vienna' timeline look like in terms of territory (either gains or consolidation)?
 
king of hybrids said:
What's the maximum 'things go really, really well for the Hapsburgs after the Congress of Vienna' timeline look like in terms of territory (either gains or consolidation)?
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After Vienna? I think in terms of expansion it really got the maximum that was possible (i.e., Bosnia), so it would really be mostly about not losing Venetia-Lombardy. Which really doesn't seem feasible to me long-term.

...there are some maps of a changed German War where Austria regains Silesia from Prussia, and perhaps even more, but I don't think it would play out that simply because of France.
 
An Austrian/German Confederation victory in the Austro-Prussian War (1866) comes to mind I suppose given it would likely result in a weaker Prussia given beyond military losses I'd imagine and suspect Austria and other German states likely wouldn't hesitate to conduct territorial grabs at Prussia's expense in the aftermath.

I'd also imagine Bismark would likely find it hard to survive politically as well given he'd likely take the blame for the defeat.
 
Alane1 said:
An Austrian/German Confederation victory in the Austro-Prussian War (1866) comes to mind I suppose given it would likely result in a weaker Prussia given beyond military losses I'd imagine and suspect Austria and other German states likely wouldn't hesitate to conduct territorial grabs at Prussia's expense in the aftermath.
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As I have said, not that easy due to France. Apparently, Napoleon III. assumed (like all the world, basically) that Prussia would lose, and hence his plan was to intervene late in the war to protect Prussia, and demand the Rhine border in return. That was one reason for Austria basically gaining a white peace; Bismarck felt pressured to act quickly before France could react.

But here is the thing: The German Confederation had been founded pretty much as an alliance against France. A political framework for Germany replacing the HRE, yes, but the reason that was considered required were the revolutionary tendencies of the time and France, which had been still widely distrusted. What is more, both sides of the war were trying to pander hard to German nationalists. So I can't see either side accepting French "aid". Bismarck would, of course, he was ruthless enough for that, but his position was fragile enough, and with the war lost he would indeed be gone soon.

So I think the outcome of Austria "winning" the German War would be a white peace for Prussia either way: either a quick one the reverse of OTL, or as part of an earlier Franco-German War with Austria and Prussia on the same side (or Prussia at least being neutral).
 
As I recall the German lands wasn't the only fire that Napoleon III had to deal with in 1866 though which I suppose might affect French calculations on when and what sort of action they take.

France apparently had troops propping up what left of the Papal States against the Kingdom of Italy and would continue to do so until December of 1866, France was also in the midst of a military withdraw from very hostile Mexico of a large number of troops that wouldn't be completed until early 1867 and I gathered also planning a punitive expedition against Korea over catholic missionaries being killed.
 
Hello.

I have an idea and I would like to consult on one issue. The thing is, I want to write a piece, I want the world to feel like the "Sixties". Bring in the "Sixties Atmosphere". How could I achieve that?

(Not talking about political realities)
 
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