Advice and Trust [NGE]

[Elder Haman]

I must ask, was there only one survival pod period, or just one surviving survival pod?

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One surviving survival pod. In the scene in the anime, we clearly see at least one additional survival pod mechanism that has been destroyed, and what looks like one or two more wrecked survival pods.

Not really, we see her coping mechanism is keeping busy not drinking.

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Uh... no. We repeatedly see Misato drinking as soon as she gets home, and in her discussion with Shinji it's clear that she deals with bad things by pretending they don't exist and letting them float away. That fits right in with using alcohol.

Maybe you're referring to her coping after Kaji dies? I'm not even certain that is the case, as that might be more that she's coping by adopting Kaji's coping mechanism of discovering why, and that as a side effect that keeps her busy.

My point is that Misato is already engaging in a coping mechanism from the first episode. And that mechanism is clearly drinking and pretending to be a party girl. Rather than a drinking problem being a fan creation, I think the fan creation is Misato being a party girl - as we actually don't really see that. She drinks at home, alone. And sometimes she goes out for drinks with Ritsu. That's about it. She gives off the vibe of "party girl" but she doesn't really seem to be one. It's more like an image that Misato wants to present so that she can pretend everything is okay.

No reason she can't have two of them.

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I suppose that's true.

She isn't most orderly person and spend most of time at work, whole apartment was full of stuff that needed cleaning.

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Doesn't change the fact that after less than a two weeks of living in her apartment Misato has a huge collection of empty beer cans and at least three empty hard liqueur bottles. That is not a healthy drinking level.

It's absolutely obvious that the anime wants to signal: "This woman may seem carefree and happy go lucky, but she's actually an alcoholic."

In fact, it hints that Shinji moving in caused Misato to drink less, and that Asuka moving in decreased her alcohol intake even more.

That would be Rei actually, she doesn't have many problems aside from problems with expressing her emotions and insufficient socialization early in her life. Casual disregard to death is iffy due to tank of spare bodies.

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Rei? Rei is not a functional human being at the start of the show. She appears to be, but only because everyone ignores her, and her distress is dismissed as "Rei is Rei" weirdness.

If anything Rei might be the most broken character out of them all. She has been denied human contact and sensory input, raised to believe her primary purpose is wrapped up in dying to fuel a ritual to merge all individual human life into a borg like assimilation thing. And told that her secondary purpose is to fight monsters to protect humanity until she can accomplish this. And she's been taught that she is entirely expendable and can be replaced. All of this was essentially deliberate emotional abuse to make her pliant and submissive to Gendo Ikari.

None of her behavior is healthy or even functional. Unless you accept Gendo's definition of functional: "Able to pilot an Evangelion, and supportive of the Human Instrumentality project with the commander's scenario."

Could Rei communicate with her classmates? Clean her room? Care for herself at a decent level of care? Dress appropriately to meet social norms? Go shopping? Answer her mail?

Rei is so dysfunctional that she is a profoundly disturbing character.

Don't get me wrong. I like Rei a lot. She seems like a nice girl under all that psychological scarring, but she is definitely a broken character, and the most obviously so. Gendo Ikari might beat her as the most broken character in the show, but he can certainly hide it a lot better than she.

They're ALL functional though. Or at least they all are at the start of the show.

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Well... I did say that Misato was the most functional. All of them are functional to some level, although for many that only means functional within the certain role that Gendo Ikari expects them to fill, with no real concern for functioning in normal society.

Misato is pretty clearly the least broken and most functional - at least until Kaji shows up. He might tie her for most functional.

Rei and Gendo are the most broken. Rei can't even hide it, and Gendo is only able to hide it because everyone just assumes he's a cold emotionless bastard who hates his son, instead of an insane man going through a 10 year long psychotically depressive episode.

The rest of the characters are in between.

Well, I am excluding minor characters such as the three bridge bunnies.

By rest of the characters I mean: Asuka, Shinji, Ritsu

 

[Cae Lumis]

Very Insightful Snip

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Bravo, couldn't have said it better myself. Actually, you beat me to the punch with the same observations, so kudos.

 

[Stargrave]

Well... I did say that Misato was the most functional. All of them are functional to some level, although for many that only means functional within the certain role that Gendo Ikari expects them to fill, with no real concern for functioning in normal society.

Misato is pretty clearly the least broken and most functional - at least until Kaji shows up. He might tie her for most functional.

Rei and Gendo are the most broken. Rei can't even hide it, and Gendo is only able to hide it because everyone just assumes he's a cold emotionless bastard who hates his son, instead of an insane man going through a 10 year long psychotically depressive episode.

The rest of the characters are in between.

Well, I am excluding minor characters such as the three bridge bunnies.

By rest of the characters I mean: Asuka, Shinji, Ritsu

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'Broken' and 'functional' are not direct antonyms though. In fact of the adult cast I'd say Misato is the least functional of them all. Well, maybe not Gendo (Although I think Gendo's fuck up level is a bit overstated), but Ritsuko is a world class scientist, head of NERV's research division, and, you know, not an alcoholic.

As the show progresses Ritsu looses it completely while Misato still maintains some measure of composure, but that has much to do with the circumstances of the story itself. At the start of the show Ritsuko is very likely the healthier human being of the two of them.

 

[Strypgia]

I thought that was made explicit when Misato told Kaji why she broke up with him. She said that she suddenly realized that he was just like her father, and she was irrationally afraid that he would die for her just like her father did. Which makes it all the more emotionally devastating when Kaji turns around and does die just a few episodes later.

Am I just misremembering all that?

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This was also because Misato was still very conflicted about her father: She hated him for being a shitty, neglectful father who was absentee so much her mother was in the middle of a nasty divorce when Second Impact happened, but also loved him for saving her life at the cost of her own. Combine that with Misato's raging intimacy issues and she just kind of panicked when she realized she and Kaji were getting serious, and she broke things off with him in fear of being that close and open to someone. Par for the course in Eva.

As to Misato and booze... well... This is a woman who's only been at her apartment a short while: She hasn't unpacked her moving-in boxes, still doesn't know her way around NERV HQ without a map, is still new to the area. She's only been here a few weeks at most. And it already looks like this:

Spoiler: Big Pics of Boozin'

And one from Rebuild:

That's at least 15 hard liquor bottles and uncountable beer cans. This is more booze than I've drunk in over two years. All in a few weeks. This is a high-functional alcoholic. She's great at her job. She compartmentalizes like Hell. But her personal life is a mess of coping mechanisms and avoidance.

She did seem to tone it down when Shinji moved in, and more so when Asuka arrived. In A&T, she's reduced even more as she and Kaji have gotten closer. In fact, most of her drinking these days is with Kaji, when they're out on their totally-not-dates-really-oh-who-are-we-kidding.

 

[Elder Haman]

Ritsuko is a world class scientist, head of NERV's research division, and, you know, not an alcoholic.

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Ritsuko is a woman with serious mommy issues who is sleeping with her mother's lover, who is also her boss, and who any rational woman should have seen was using her.

She also appears to have no friends, other than Misato, which is mainly a hold over from college. Virtually every interaction is instigated by Misato (the one exception was actually a plan by Gendo, who asked Ritsuko to use her friendship with Misato to manipulate Shinji into forming a connection with Rei). She's a workaholic, so bad that she doesn't even have time for her cats who she has to have her grandmother take care of. (Really, how much maintenance do cats require?)

She's also working to bring to pass the assimilation of all mankind into some borg like thing - that by itself does not suggest a healthy mind. Oh, and she's essentially the surrogate mother to the clone of her lover's dead wife, which is just all sorts of messed up, I can't begin to comprehend.

Functional by what definition? Sure, Ritsuko functions very well in the role that Gendo Ikari has assigned her, but not very well in normal society.

By outer appearances the most functional characters are Gendo and Ritsuko, but they both lack vital functionality in humanity. They both have achieved power and praise, but they don't have functional families, they don't have functional friendships.

When I say someone is functional, I mean that they can communicate with others, make friends, and generally treat other people like people, instead of parts in a machine, or pieces on a chess board. Misato and Kaji are the Evangelion characters that come closest to meeting that standard, and even they have trouble. Ristuko doesn't do very well, probably about as bad as Shinji. Rei and Gendo fail completely, though for very different reasons. Rei because she's never been taught how to function, Gendo because he is so crippled by grief and obsession that he doesn't care anymore.

That's actually one of the major messages of Evangelion. You have all these powerful, "successful" people who are all desperately unhappy, and can't hold together any kind of meaningful relationship. They are all isolated, lonely, miserable, losers.

Compare this to characters from other anime, like say Kimi Ni Todoke, which is exactly the opposite, as it's about people making connections to each other. (Hence the name "Reaching You").

Those characters are functional. Evangelion? One big screwed up family.

Of which, I still hold, Misato was the healthiest and most functional. Misato could be dropped down in an normal anime and she'd be the screwed up, cool big sister who's kinda broken if you think about it, but still able to make some connections with people.

Ritsuko? At best she'd be the cold, highly professional scientist, whose only friends are cats. Maybe she'd get a story arc about her finally breaking down and making friends and finding happiness because of the purity of the lead heroine.

I don't hate Ritsuko. I feel sorry for her. But there is no way I'd pick her over Misato as a friend - and I'm an intellectual introvert who would find Misato's antics highly annoying, and probably enjoy a scientific discussion with Ritsuko. The problem is that Ritsuko is just... messed up. I was even feeling that before she went off the deep end. I kept thinking - "does this woman ever do anything other than work? That can't be healthy."

 

[Jake]

This was also because Misato was still very conflicted about her father: She hated him for being a shitty, neglectful father who was absentee so much her mother was in the middle of a nasty divorce when Second Impact happened, but also loved him for saving her life at the cost of her own. Combine that with Misato's raging intimacy issues and she just kind of panicked when she realized she and Kaji were getting serious, and she broke things off with him in fear of being that close and open to someone. Par for the course in Eva.

As to Misato and booze... well... This is a woman who's only been at her apartment a short while: She hasn't unpacked her moving-in boxes, still doesn't know her way around NERV HQ without a map, is still new to the area. She's only been here a few weeks at most. And it already looks like this:

Spoiler: Big Pics of Boozin'

And one from Rebuild:

That's at least 15 hard liquor bottles and uncountable beer cans. This is more booze than I've drunk in over two years. All in a few weeks. This is a high-functional alcoholic. She's great at her job. She compartmentalizes like Hell. But her personal life is a mess of coping mechanisms and avoidance.

She did seem to tone it down when Shinji moved in, and more so when Asuka arrived. In A&T, she's reduced even more as she and Kaji have gotten closer. In fact, most of her drinking these days is with Kaji, when they're out on their totally-not-dates-really-oh-who-are-we-kidding.

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That, ladies and gentlemen, is what clinical depression looks like. She just hides it better than most...

EDIT: Quote added for clarity.

 

[Always Late]

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Well, Pen Pen certainly is.

 

[Ultimate Paragon]

If Hannibal Lecter tried to eat her liver, he'd probably die from alcohol poisoning.

 

[Elder Haman]

Evangelion threads.

Inevitably they devolve into arguments over which one of the messed up characters is more messed up than the other messed up characters.

 

[Betatrack]

Ritsuko is a woman with serious mommy issues who is sleeping with her mother's lover, who is also her boss, and who any rational woman should have seen was using her.

She also appears to have no friends, other than Misato, which is mainly a hold over from college. Virtually every interaction is instigated by Misato (the one exception was actually a plan by Gendo, who asked Ritsuko to use her friendship with Misato to manipulate Shinji into forming a connection with Rei). She's a workaholic, so bad that she doesn't even have time for her cats who she has to have her grandmother take care of. (Really, how much maintenance do cats require?)

She's also working to bring to pass the assimilation of all mankind into some borg like thing - that by itself does not suggest a healthy mind. Oh, and she's essentially the surrogate mother to the clone of her lover's dead wife, which is just all sorts of messed up, I can't begin to comprehend.

Functional by what definition? Sure, Ritsuko functions very well in the role that Gendo Ikari has assigned her, but not very well in normal society.

By outer appearances the most functional characters are Gendo and Ritsuko, but they both lack vital functionality in humanity. They both have achieved power and praise, but they don't have functional families, they don't have functional friendships.

When I say someone is functional, I mean that they can communicate with others, make friends, and generally treat other people like people, instead of parts in a machine, or pieces on a chess board. Misato and Kaji are the Evangelion characters that come closest to meeting that standard, and even they have trouble. Ristuko doesn't do very well, probably about as bad as Shinji. Rei and Gendo fail completely, though for very different reasons. Rei because she's never been taught how to function, Gendo because he is so crippled by grief and obsession that he doesn't care anymore.

That's actually one of the major messages of Evangelion. You have all these powerful, "successful" people who are all desperately unhappy, and can't hold together any kind of meaningful relationship. They are all isolated, lonely, miserable, losers.

Compare this to characters from other anime, like say Kimi Ni Todoke, which is exactly the opposite, as it's about people making connections to each other. (Hence the name "Reaching You").

Those characters are functional. Evangelion? One big screwed up family.

Of which, I still hold, Misato was the healthiest and most functional. Misato could be dropped down in an normal anime and she'd be the screwed up, cool big sister who's kinda broken if you think about it, but still able to make some connections with people.

Ritsuko? At best she'd be the cold, highly professional scientist, whose only friends are cats. Maybe she'd get a story arc about her finally breaking down and making friends and finding happiness because of the purity of the lead heroine.

I don't hate Ritsuko. I feel sorry for her. But there is no way I'd pick her over Misato as a friend - and I'm an intellectual introvert who would find Misato's antics highly annoying, and probably enjoy a scientific discussion with Ritsuko. The problem is that Ritsuko is just... messed up. I was even feeling that before she went off the deep end. I kept thinking - "does this woman ever do anything other than work? That can't be healthy."

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I tend to agree with you. I think a good way of comparing the two's mental stability goes thus: While both of them are messed up Misato's mental stability is like a plateau, not the healthiest, but stable and wide enough that she wont fall over the edge unless seriously pushed (as we see in the show). Ritsuko's stability is balanced on a razors edge, she's happier at the start, but only at Gendo's leisure. Pretty much anything that contradicts her relationship with Gendo will throw her right over (also as we see in the show).

 

[Immanent Hope]

Evangelion threads.

Inevitably they devolve into arguments over which one of the messed up characters is more messed up than the other messed up characters.

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Because humans are just messed up that way.

 

[BadRoad]

(Really, how much maintenance do cats require?)

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Feed, water, and scoop poop twice a day; change litter once a week. Less if you have an autofeeder, a fountain, and a self-cleaning litterbox or at least partially outdoor cats.

If you don't have time for a cat, just get a pet rock.

 

[Cae Lumis]

Evangelion threads.

Inevitably they devolve into arguments over which one of the messed up characters is more messed up than the other messed up characters.

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CLEARLY, The most messed up character in Evangelion is Pen2​!!!! The time spent with that booze hound Misato must've left mental scars only few can dream of.

Spoiler: Punchline

By the way... my tongue is being held firmly in my cheek, to clear up any doubts.

 

[Rumetheus]

If you don't have time for a cat, just get a pet rock.

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Do you know how high maintenance rocks are? Very. You gotta protect them from erosion. That's thousands to millions of years of time you don't have to spend.

But they are truly man's best friend.

 

[Stargrave]

Ritsuko is a woman with serious mommy issues who is sleeping with her mother's lover, who is also her boss, and who any rational woman should have seen was using her.

She also appears to have no friends, other than Misato, which is mainly a hold over from college. Virtually every interaction is instigated by Misato (the one exception was actually a plan by Gendo, who asked Ritsuko to use her friendship with Misato to manipulate Shinji into forming a connection with Rei). She's a workaholic, so bad that she doesn't even have time for her cats who she has to have her grandmother take care of. (Really, how much maintenance do cats require?)

She's also working to bring to pass the assimilation of all mankind into some borg like thing - that by itself does not suggest a healthy mind. Oh, and she's essentially the surrogate mother to the clone of her lover's dead wife, which is just all sorts of messed up, I can't begin to comprehend.

Functional by what definition? Sure, Ritsuko functions very well in the role that Gendo Ikari has assigned her, but not very well in normal society.

By outer appearances the most functional characters are Gendo and Ritsuko, but they both lack vital functionality in humanity. They both have achieved power and praise, but they don't have functional families, they don't have functional friendships.

When I say someone is functional, I mean that they can communicate with others, make friends, and generally treat other people like people, instead of parts in a machine, or pieces on a chess board. Misato and Kaji are the Evangelion characters that come closest to meeting that standard, and even they have trouble. Ristuko doesn't do very well, probably about as bad as Shinji. Rei and Gendo fail completely, though for very different reasons. Rei because she's never been taught how to function, Gendo because he is so crippled by grief and obsession that he doesn't care anymore.

That's actually one of the major messages of Evangelion. You have all these powerful, "successful" people who are all desperately unhappy, and can't hold together any kind of meaningful relationship. They are all isolated, lonely, miserable, losers.

Compare this to characters from other anime, like say Kimi Ni Todoke, which is exactly the opposite, as it's about people making connections to each other. (Hence the name "Reaching You").

Those characters are functional. Evangelion? One big screwed up family.

Of which, I still hold, Misato was the healthiest and most functional. Misato could be dropped down in an normal anime and she'd be the screwed up, cool big sister who's kinda broken if you think about it, but still able to make some connections with people.

Ritsuko? At best she'd be the cold, highly professional scientist, whose only friends are cats. Maybe she'd get a story arc about her finally breaking down and making friends and finding happiness because of the purity of the lead heroine.

I don't hate Ritsuko. I feel sorry for her. But there is no way I'd pick her over Misato as a friend - and I'm an intellectual introvert who would find Misato's antics highly annoying, and probably enjoy a scientific discussion with Ritsuko. The problem is that Ritsuko is just... messed up. I was even feeling that before she went off the deep end. I kept thinking - "does this woman ever do anything other than work? That can't be healthy."

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A lot of those things are applicable to Misato as well though. Parental issues? Defining feature. Friends and family? We never see any. Neglected personal life? Have you seen her apartment? Seeing people as pieces on a chess board? She will do this. She will get surprisingly ruthless and Machiavellian in her work mode, and we know this is ultimately fueled not by her sense of duty, but desire for revenge.

Misato is ultimately no better at making connections to people than anyone else in the series is. She has this laid back persona, but like her work persona that is really just a mask designed to keep people away and keep the real Misato hidden deep down (It's telling that after six months of living together and all the things they've been through she still doesn't get Shinji at all. Let's not even start about Asuka). Perhaps ironically I think the only times in the first part of the show when we get to see the real Misato are when she's alone with Ritsuko.

I also think you're misconstructing a lot of things there. I highly doubt Ritsuko giving Shinji Rei's security pass was part of Gendo's master plan, Ritusko is in no way a surrogate mother to Rei, and as I've mentioned a few times before, I think her and Gendo's relationship is a lot more complex than just one sided manipulation.

 

[MWKillKenny84]

... apart the japanese beer, I can recognize 'edited-for-anime' versions of some liquors. Some are HARD liquors.

To be more precise, they are liquors that one do not drink... without having eaten a full, solid meal. And no more than two or three glasses.

And Misato has drunk them dry (or three quarter of them) ALONE and with minimal meals/take aways/[redacted]... yes, I think Second Impact gave her a liver with the same regenerative abilities of a Ree.

That or Ritsuko has tampered with Misato's DNA during their college years so to avoid to lose her sole best friend, because a normal human being would have died from alchool poisoning if shi tried to do like Misato...

 

[greensun]

... apart the japanese beer, I can recognize 'edited-for-anime' versions of some liquors. Some are HARD liquors.

To be more precise, they are liquors that one do not drink... without having eaten a full, solid meal. And no more than two or three glasses.

And Misato has drunk them dry (or three quarter of them) ALONE and with minimal meals/take aways/[redacted]... yes, I think Second Impact gave her a liver with the same regenerative abilities of a Ree.

That or Ritsuko has tampered with Misato's DNA during their college years so to avoid to lose her sole best friend, because a normal human being would have died from alchool poisoning if shi tried to do like Misato...

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Or more likely she doesn't keep it all down. A lot of people get sick after drinking too much and then keep on going, it's a childish, stupid thing so it's right up Misato's alley.

 

[Elder Haman]

I also think you're misconstructing a lot of things there. I highly doubt Ritsuko giving Shinji Rei's security pass was part of Gendo's master plan, Ritusko is in no way a surrogate mother to Rei, and as I've mentioned a few times before, I think her and Gendo's relationship is a lot more complex than just one sided manipulation.

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It's explicit in the story that Gendo asked Ritsuko to have Shinji give Rei her pass so as to encourage the connection between them so as to give him a stronger handle on Shinji. Remember that Shinji only fought because Gendo wheeled out Rei on a stretcher as said that if he didn't pilot he'd make Rei do it.

It's all about manipulation of Shinji's instinctive desire to protect his mother, and Rei looking almost exactly like Yui. That's explicitly deliberate. Pushing his son to interact with Rei fits right into that plan to maintain a way to control Shinji even after Rei is no longer injured.

I agree that Gendo is credited with too much power over events, when in actuality he's just very opportunistic.

But when it comes to manipulating people, Gendo is the master. He clearly picked Misato as operations command over other candidates because he know he could turn her into a mother figure for the pilots he had the hardest time controlling, but that her desire for revenge would keep her sending "her kids" into danger. He clearly set things up so that Misato would empathize with Shinji over his bad relation with his father, and would offer to take him in. (Since she had already been a guardian for Auska, this was a pretty likely outcome).

Ritsuko is pretty obviously the surrogate mother figure for Rei. Ritsuko provides Rei with medicine and medical care, and is the only woman that truly interacts with Rei. Ritsuko's just a very very very bad step mother who is jealous of the attention the father (Gendo) gives to the daughter (Rei). Thus instead of a healthy mother daughter relationship it's closer to something out of a fairytale with a wicked stepmother. That still leaves Ritsuko as the surrogate mother figure, just as an evil one rather than a good one (like Misato). Truthfully, I've always wanted to read a fanfiction where the "Shinji awakens Rei to normal living plot" results in Rei trying to treat Ritsuko as her mother, and Ritsuko starting to freak out about it.

 

[ToothMaker]

Truthfully, I've always wanted to read a fanfiction where the "Shinji awakens Rei to normal living plot" results in Rei trying to treat Ritsuko as her mother, and Ritsuko starting to freak out about it.

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Doing it Right this Time has Ritsuko discover that her mother used her own genetic material rather than Yui's, making Rei her little sister - and she does freak out about it.

The story also has Gendo getting bitchslapped early on, which is always fun.

 

[Stargrave]

It's explicit in the story that Gendo asked Ritsuko to have Shinji give Rei her pass so as to encourage the connection between them so as to give him a stronger handle on Shinji.

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Is it? I honestly don't remember it being explicitly shown anywhere in the series.

He clearly picked Misato as operations command over other candidates because he know he could turn her into a mother figure for the pilots he had the hardest time controlling, but that her desire for revenge would keep her sending "her kids" into danger. He clearly set things up so that Misato would empathize with Shinji over his bad relation with his father, and would offer to take him in. (Since she had already been a guardian for Auska, this was a pretty likely outcome).

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This sounds a bit far fetched, TBH.

Ritsuko is pretty obviously the surrogate mother figure for Rei. Ritsuko provides Rei with medicine and medical care, and is the only woman that truly interacts with Rei.

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That doesn't really make her a mother figure. It makes her, well, nothing more than a nurse. For her to be a mother figure for Rei would require some level of relationship between them that is just absent from the show.

I actually feel you, I think the interaction between Ritsuko and Rei has potential for greatness and is an untapped gold mine for fanfics. Ritsuko certainly has the potential to be a mother figure for Rei, either good or bad. But as far as canon is concerned, that stays solely within the realm of potential.

 

[Strypgia]

Given how hostile and all-around bad the canon interactions between Rei and Ritsuko got, they'd be a really f*cked up mother-daughter set-up... but again, par for the course in Evangelion. Might be closer to elder sister-younger sister given the generations, though as usual that's muddied.

 

[Jake]

Doing it Right this Time has Ritsuko discover that her mother used her own genetic material rather than Yui's, making Rei her little sister - and she does freak out about it.

The story also has Gendo getting bitchslapped early on, which is always fun.

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And in that case it did help that I went with the theory that no, Ritsuko was not aware Gendo slept with her mother until she found out that Naoko (apparently) tried to baby-trap him.

 

[Elder Haman]

Is it? I honestly don't remember it being explicitly shown anywhere in the series.

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There is about a three second scene where Gendo (off camera) talks to Ritsuko (off camera - gotta love the way Evangelion saved money) talking about how he will control Shinji, just before Ristuko has the scene asking Shinji to give Rei her pass.

In the manga it's a whole page in which Gendo explicitly asks Ritsuko to give Shinji Rei's pass (just think about it, why couldn't Ritsuko give it directly to Rei? How does it make sense to ask Shinji to deliver it), and says that he will use Rei to control Shinji. (Oops! Goofed there Gendo! - One of only two mistakes in manipulating people that Gendo makes - the other is predicting he can manipulate Shinji in the fight against Toji.)

The bit about Misato is less explicit but still implied by the anime. Gendo deliberately rejects Shinji in front of Misato, to make her empathize with Shinji. Next thing you know, Misato offers Shinji a place to stay.

That seemed unpredictable... unless you knew that Misato had already served as a guardian for a pilot. Then it becomes a likely scenario that Gendo probably planned for. At least as a preferred outcome if not a certain one.

It's also hinted at by the fact that Misato is only a Captain, a very low rank for the operations commander in this situation. There is also a short three sentence conversation between her and Ritsuko referencing how hard she had to work to get this job instead of it going to someone else, and how she wants to prove herself as qualified to handle it.

In the manga, it's made explicit that Gendo picked Misato over more senior and higher qualified candidates, primarily because he knew about her hatred of Angels, and that that would make her easier to control, with his secondary concern being that she could bond with the pilots so that he could use her to control them. He specifically cites her being a woman, and guardianship of Asuka as factors. It's hinted that Ritsuko provided him with information about Misato's hatred of angels that made Gendo pick her.

Gendo really is a manipulative bastard. He also prepares for a lot of different possibilities so that he can always claim "just as planned" even when what he really means is that he is now on plan Z because plan A to Y already got messed up.

Gendo also deliberately surrounds himself not with "the best qualified" for their jobs, but with "the most easily manipulated" which is why he leans so very very heavily on Ritsuko. She's his treasure who is both the best qualified and easy to manipulate.

 

[TiaC]

Given how hostile and all-around bad the canon interactions between Rei and Ritsuko got, they'd be a really f*cked up mother-daughter set-up... but again, par for the course in Evangelion. Might be closer to elder sister-younger sister given the generations, though as usual that's muddied.

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With how fucked up Gendo and Ritsuko's relationship is, I could see her deciding to tie him to her by attaining influence over Rei. So, she drags her maternal instincts out of storage, forms a real bond with Rei, and now she's even more indispensible. In addition, she's moved Rei from rival to stepdaughter. However, she didn't expect that she'd actually come to care for Rei. Whoops.

 

[Stargrave]

Gah, sorry it's taking me so long to respond. I didn't to drag this out because this was a pretty interesting discussion, but the weekend was hella hectic and I kinda... forgot.

Anywho,

There is about a three second scene where Gendo (off camera) talks to Ritsuko (off camera - gotta love the way Evangelion saved money) talking about how he will control Shinji, just before Ristuko has the scene asking Shinji to give Rei her pass.

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I skimmed through the episode and I couldn't actually find that scene. In fact from what I saw there's no part of Ritsuko and Gendo talking anywhere in the episode except for the flashback to Rei's accident. Are you sure it was in that episode?

In the manga it's a whole page in which Gendo explicitly asks Ritsuko to give Shinji Rei's pass (just think about it, why couldn't Ritsuko give it directly to Rei? How does it make sense to ask Shinji to deliver it), and says that he will use Rei to control Shinji. (Oops! Goofed there Gendo! - One of only two mistakes in manipulating people that Gendo makes - the other is predicting he can manipulate Shinji in the fight against Toji.)

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Yeah, but manga does take liberties and plays fast and loose with the plot and characters at times. Gendo specifically is much more of a cackling maniac there, so I would hesitate to put much faith in it.

The bit about Misato is less explicit but still implied by the anime. Gendo deliberately rejects Shinji in front of Misato, to make her empathize with Shinji. Next thing you know, Misato offers Shinji a place to stay.

That seemed unpredictable... unless you knew that Misato had already served as a guardian for a pilot. Then it becomes a likely scenario that Gendo probably planned for. At least as a preferred outcome if not a certain one.

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That still sounds majorly far fetched to me. I could accept that he manipulated her into taking Shinji in, but that would require him to actually do some manipulating. Predicting that everything will go according to plan based on her history and one look he throws Shinji's way after the battle is something that would make Palpatine go "Bullshit."

I don't know. Perhaps I've fallen into a trap of trying to interpret what Gendo's actions say about Gendo as opposed to what they're doing to other people, but I can't really see Gendo as a schemer on that level. He makes far too great mistakes for that to hold up.