At noon GMT on May 5th 1979, The territory of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern...
A Thatcher Redux: A British ISOT
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At noon GMT on May 5th 1979, The territory of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, its colonies, Dependent Territories, concessions and sovereign waterways and airspace, are ISOT'd to noon GMT on May 5th, 2019.
I was born in 1980 so it's over to you guys for the consequences and effects of this.
I was born in 1980 so it's over to you guys for the consequences and effects of this.
This is something called the Good Friday Agreement. - The EU
- Location
- Cambridge, UK
This is a blight on blighty. Much like being stuck in a late seventies mindset, tech base and culture, forty years later.
There's also Brexit to consider, because donny trump wont let the EU pretend it doesnt exist.
- Location
- Australia
It depends really, the British economy would be shot. Then again it already was at the time. If we also added the territorial waters around the UK, that would also mean replenished fish stocks, less tapped off shore oil, which added to Brexit which the EU would not be capable of stopping (America, and EU indecisiveness); still operational mines and factories (shut, but still restartable) and lacking a lot of the social/political strife that has afflicted the UK since Blair changed the paradimes/gentrified the cities. I mean yeah people hated Thatcher, but you didn't have the polarisation from nowadays.
The biggest changes however will be the overseas territories with the Falklands undermanned and lower density. And China screaming into its police brutality, that it has to start Hong Kong's colonisation/'reeducation' all over again.
And that's even if they can retake it since they just lost a major part of their economy/investments/manpower (best crackdown forces); while America, Korea, Taiwan and Japan will swoop down like a flock of hawks.
When it comes to Brexit and the EU I seriously don't see Thatcher joining up/stopping Brexit. This is Thatcher we're talking about, the woman who had 'the Empire Strike Back' over some miserable islands off Argentina, and the UK only joined under the blander the toast PM John Major.
Aside from that, another major shift will be 1979 UK coming across the modern world, and especially its politics. Thatcher got voted in because of the socialist/government control policies of the Labour Party; seeing the world as it is now, would terrify them when you add in all the different societal changes we've had since then. I mean think of what a working class Londoner would think of the men/elites we have today? Then we move to Ulster/Northern Ireland; you have the Troubles to worry about, as at this point it was in full swing infiltrating throughout the UK.
The UK would be a basket case, but it's not one that could be easily navigated aside from a few assurances. Thatcher no matter what would be re-elected out of fear, the Labour Party would be shunted even further. The EU in its current state would be seen as the new USSR. Trump would have a field day, especially with the boost to the American economy from developing/advancing the UK. And the monarchy, potential succession crisis in the Commonwealth will likely be averted for another 40 years.
One big boon at least is that they'd certainly be a lot of tourists and Freddy Mercury's still alive/doesn't have aids yet (alongside a lot of other British actors/musicians/celebrities)
The biggest changes however will be the overseas territories with the Falklands undermanned and lower density. And China screaming into its police brutality, that it has to start Hong Kong's colonisation/'reeducation' all over again.
And that's even if they can retake it since they just lost a major part of their economy/investments/manpower (best crackdown forces); while America, Korea, Taiwan and Japan will swoop down like a flock of hawks.
When it comes to Brexit and the EU I seriously don't see Thatcher joining up/stopping Brexit. This is Thatcher we're talking about, the woman who had 'the Empire Strike Back' over some miserable islands off Argentina, and the UK only joined under the blander the toast PM John Major.
Aside from that, another major shift will be 1979 UK coming across the modern world, and especially its politics. Thatcher got voted in because of the socialist/government control policies of the Labour Party; seeing the world as it is now, would terrify them when you add in all the different societal changes we've had since then. I mean think of what a working class Londoner would think of the men/elites we have today? Then we move to Ulster/Northern Ireland; you have the Troubles to worry about, as at this point it was in full swing infiltrating throughout the UK.
The UK would be a basket case, but it's not one that could be easily navigated aside from a few assurances. Thatcher no matter what would be re-elected out of fear, the Labour Party would be shunted even further. The EU in its current state would be seen as the new USSR. Trump would have a field day, especially with the boost to the American economy from developing/advancing the UK. And the monarchy, potential succession crisis in the Commonwealth will likely be averted for another 40 years.
One big boon at least is that they'd certainly be a lot of tourists and Freddy Mercury's still alive/doesn't have aids yet (alongside a lot of other British actors/musicians/celebrities)
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What British entertainment and music figures do we get back?
Eight-year-old David John McDonald will be stunned when he finds out what he became in 2005.
Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee alive again too...
Eight-year-old David John McDonald will be stunned when he finds out what he became in 2005.
Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee alive again too...
Jimmy Savile.
Edward Heath actually.
- Location
- Australia
Yeah, not to sure the BBC would be able to cover his hide, since all his dirty secrets were revealed to the world
With Edward Heath, that correct for the trade block predecessor to the EU, which was controversial even when he did it. However when the EU itself formed in the 90's, Major was the PM that actually signed onto joining the it. Which was also highly controversial due to all the things it allowed the other EU states to do in formerly sovereign British waters, in addition to many other things that got worse under Blair that led to the rise of UKIP and eventually Brexit.
The leave movement has been quite popular in the UK ever since Heath joined the trade block; And due to the closeness to that event, and knowing the voting habits of the people from that age group (last election); the no longer subtle German/French ambitions and control over the continent will be very terrifying for the British, a good number still remember WW2, and don't like the French out of tradition.
With Edward Heath, that correct for the trade block predecessor to the EU, which was controversial even when he did it. However when the EU itself formed in the 90's, Major was the PM that actually signed onto joining the it. Which was also highly controversial due to all the things it allowed the other EU states to do in formerly sovereign British waters, in addition to many other things that got worse under Blair that led to the rise of UKIP and eventually Brexit.
The leave movement has been quite popular in the UK ever since Heath joined the trade block; And due to the closeness to that event, and knowing the voting habits of the people from that age group (last election); the no longer subtle German/French ambitions and control over the continent will be very terrifying for the British, a good number still remember WW2, and don't like the French out of tradition.
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- Location
- Perth
I wonder what Britain can even do economically. Like.
They were held together by the Commonwealth, Canada, Australia, etc trading on a preferential basis with Britain. That ended when Britain joined the EU and had to cancel their preferential system. Something that essentially meant Australia, Canada, etc had to find new trading partners. Which we can see now with Australia's major trading partners being America, China, Japan, Indonesia etc.
Without the Commonwealth or the EU... and with Thatcher bringing in Neo-Liberalism... just who is going to be trading with Britain? They don't have the intellectual property to export to Eastern Europe/China to build an economy. They are no longer the economic heart of the EU where every EU dollar has to pass through London as per the agreement (which is why Brexit makes no sense. They had the best deal ever, what could be better than the best deal ever?)
They have an outdated military, an economy in shambles, a population that will probably flee to places like Australia and Canada... because why stay in Thatcher England when they can see into the future through wikipedia and see just how badly Thatcher's economic policy and her successor's policy's are going to destroy their communities and economies. And see just what a shitshow the future is for everyone that isn't the top 1% of society. In Australia they at least have the sun, in Canada they get modern electronics.
They were held together by the Commonwealth, Canada, Australia, etc trading on a preferential basis with Britain. That ended when Britain joined the EU and had to cancel their preferential system. Something that essentially meant Australia, Canada, etc had to find new trading partners. Which we can see now with Australia's major trading partners being America, China, Japan, Indonesia etc.
Without the Commonwealth or the EU... and with Thatcher bringing in Neo-Liberalism... just who is going to be trading with Britain? They don't have the intellectual property to export to Eastern Europe/China to build an economy. They are no longer the economic heart of the EU where every EU dollar has to pass through London as per the agreement (which is why Brexit makes no sense. They had the best deal ever, what could be better than the best deal ever?)
They have an outdated military, an economy in shambles, a population that will probably flee to places like Australia and Canada... because why stay in Thatcher England when they can see into the future through wikipedia and see just how badly Thatcher's economic policy and her successor's policy's are going to destroy their communities and economies. And see just what a shitshow the future is for everyone that isn't the top 1% of society. In Australia they at least have the sun, in Canada they get modern electronics.
- Location
- Australia
The problem is that Australia isn't 80's Australia. It's economies still in the dolldrums (I should know I live there) and wouldn't be that appetising. America looks like it's about to begin ACW 2.0, Canada is a joke (literally, if you look at what they'd think of Trudeu). And the EU is led by the Fourth Reich/'Jupiterian Empire'.
Also the decay of british society would likely be blamed on Blair, not thatcher seeing how he is the one that presided on the worst of its descent, and reworked it into it present state. Well him and Cameron to say the least. The factor of Britain being a major trade node however would remain the same, due to its position regardless of its trajectory with the EU. Trade passes through the UK because it is closest and easiest to access America for Northern Europe, much like how Australia is pretty good for investors due to how far away it is from everyone/political stability.
The EU however would be in a lot of trouble as while less advanced 1979 UK would be far more confrontational, and over protective of its sovereignty. The Germans would lose their largest European export market. The French, Spanish, Skandanavians, Dutch and Belgium's would be crater as they lose access to British fishing waters/markets. And Ireland gets an evan rawer deal than its already terrible current condition, as the troubles comes back in full swing.
Also the decay of british society would likely be blamed on Blair, not thatcher seeing how he is the one that presided on the worst of its descent, and reworked it into it present state. Well him and Cameron to say the least. The factor of Britain being a major trade node however would remain the same, due to its position regardless of its trajectory with the EU. Trade passes through the UK because it is closest and easiest to access America for Northern Europe, much like how Australia is pretty good for investors due to how far away it is from everyone/political stability.
The EU however would be in a lot of trouble as while less advanced 1979 UK would be far more confrontational, and over protective of its sovereignty. The Germans would lose their largest European export market. The French, Spanish, Skandanavians, Dutch and Belgium's would be crater as they lose access to British fishing waters/markets. And Ireland gets an evan rawer deal than its already terrible current condition, as the troubles comes back in full swing.
Well, to be realistic the EU will not accept anything less than Thatcher signing onto the GFA and given that she gets to stop the troubles Thatcher is unlikely to oppose the idea. And you like the Brexit voters overrate the economic importance of the fisheries to both Brussels and Whitehall.
The only reason they're a sticking point in Brexit today is Political.
Thatcher is unlikely to give a shit about the fishermen, you have to remember shes not a modern far-right tory. And thats not my opinion by the way, the Tories switched caucus in the EUParliament away from neo-liberalist/conservatives to the Far-right crowd.
The only reason they're a sticking point in Brexit today is Political.
Thatcher is unlikely to give a shit about the fishermen, you have to remember shes not a modern far-right tory. And thats not my opinion by the way, the Tories switched caucus in the EUParliament away from neo-liberalist/conservatives to the Far-right crowd.
- Location
- Perth
When Britain signed the EU, they did so in a position of power.
Like, they got to keep the Pound, aka an independent currency that they control. Meaning, that when the EU went 'BALANCE THE BUDGET' and then went 'Italy you bastards, you don't get to grow because we, in Germany, who run the EU economy because we stacked the department, are running a surplus. Everything needs to be balanced because household economics for a multi-nation coalition is a genius idea that will absolutely not lead to political extremism'.
Britain got to keep the pound, do whatever it wanted with its currency and not need to balance the budget because they weren't on the Euro. Note how France has basically gone 'no, fuck off. We're going on a surplus now' as have many other nations who were meant to on a deficit to keep it all 'balanced'. Said balance basically being Austerity that has seen Greece, France, Italy, Spain, etc being hit particularly hard. Being a european coalition but favouring a few countries over the others, heh, Germany you're as bad an ally in WW1 as you were in WW2 as you are now.
Another thing Britain got was Veto rights over the passing of legislation.
They also got to decide which laws they wanted to follow or ignore.
They also got all the money in the EU to flow through London since the exchange would be located in London.
In essence, Britain was 'part' of the EU, while being able to ignore most of the rules and laws that made up the EU if they so wanted. Which makes Brexit a giant joke, they were never part of the EU to begin with everyone else in the EU cries.
A Britain demanding the same things today in this political climate? Where the aforementioned economic decisions that the EU has made and is in the process of making (the EU reserve bank saying 'you cannot do this' while doing exactly this, making everything they're doing illegitimate, which brings up even more problems) has caused enormous civil unrest. Political extremism is on the rise, wealth inequality is on the rise and so on. A Britain waltzing in and getting 'special' priviliges is going to make everyone... very very angry.
Britain is going to basically have to decide to remain as they are while stagflation is going around. Aka the thing that Thatcher stopped... by stripping workers rights and fighting with the unions. Starting the process of extreme wealth inequality that we see today... raising civil unrest and allowing political extremism to take root.
Or they try and rush neo-liberalism to bring themselves in line with the rest of the world. Aka stripping workers rights, etc and basically demolishing the entire political system as the members of parliament are lynched.
Seriously speaking, the economics and politics of a 1970s Britain in a 2019 world is like day and night. The next 10 years are going to be extremely rough, the political landscape is going to fracture (Rupert Murdoch's little empire doesn't have as wide a grasp as it does now.) Which is going to cause even more of an issue, problematic in a nuclear state.
Oh, and we have Princess Diana's life on the internet, with many many documentaries. I wonder how the Royal family is going to handle that.
Basically, the question seems simple on the surface. But, honestly speaking, it's the kind of thing that you would get an entire library's worth of books written about it.
Like, they got to keep the Pound, aka an independent currency that they control. Meaning, that when the EU went 'BALANCE THE BUDGET' and then went 'Italy you bastards, you don't get to grow because we, in Germany, who run the EU economy because we stacked the department, are running a surplus. Everything needs to be balanced because household economics for a multi-nation coalition is a genius idea that will absolutely not lead to political extremism'.
Britain got to keep the pound, do whatever it wanted with its currency and not need to balance the budget because they weren't on the Euro. Note how France has basically gone 'no, fuck off. We're going on a surplus now' as have many other nations who were meant to on a deficit to keep it all 'balanced'. Said balance basically being Austerity that has seen Greece, France, Italy, Spain, etc being hit particularly hard. Being a european coalition but favouring a few countries over the others, heh, Germany you're as bad an ally in WW1 as you were in WW2 as you are now.
Another thing Britain got was Veto rights over the passing of legislation.
They also got to decide which laws they wanted to follow or ignore.
They also got all the money in the EU to flow through London since the exchange would be located in London.
In essence, Britain was 'part' of the EU, while being able to ignore most of the rules and laws that made up the EU if they so wanted. Which makes Brexit a giant joke, they were never part of the EU to begin with everyone else in the EU cries.
A Britain demanding the same things today in this political climate? Where the aforementioned economic decisions that the EU has made and is in the process of making (the EU reserve bank saying 'you cannot do this' while doing exactly this, making everything they're doing illegitimate, which brings up even more problems) has caused enormous civil unrest. Political extremism is on the rise, wealth inequality is on the rise and so on. A Britain waltzing in and getting 'special' priviliges is going to make everyone... very very angry.
Britain is going to basically have to decide to remain as they are while stagflation is going around. Aka the thing that Thatcher stopped... by stripping workers rights and fighting with the unions. Starting the process of extreme wealth inequality that we see today... raising civil unrest and allowing political extremism to take root.
Or they try and rush neo-liberalism to bring themselves in line with the rest of the world. Aka stripping workers rights, etc and basically demolishing the entire political system as the members of parliament are lynched.
Seriously speaking, the economics and politics of a 1970s Britain in a 2019 world is like day and night. The next 10 years are going to be extremely rough, the political landscape is going to fracture (Rupert Murdoch's little empire doesn't have as wide a grasp as it does now.) Which is going to cause even more of an issue, problematic in a nuclear state.
Oh, and we have Princess Diana's life on the internet, with many many documentaries. I wonder how the Royal family is going to handle that.
Basically, the question seems simple on the surface. But, honestly speaking, it's the kind of thing that you would get an entire library's worth of books written about it.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Obviously this is very good for Britain and they will go on to reform the Empire.
Rule Britannia! /s
Rule Britannia! /s
1. Even worse. even more doomed.
2. The Soviet Union is a dead state, nobody will care after three weeks.
3. The Disasterous results in elections by trotskiyite labour is likely to see a faster evolution of New Labour.
4. Nobody will care.
5. Wow, that's a statement... you got alot proof of that do you?
7. EU and US has the GFA, Unlike Boris, Thatcher is sane, it's unlikely that the troubles will persist for very long.
Harry is in the 2020 USA with Meghan, so when he gets to the newly arrived 1979 UK he gets to meet his mother as an 18 year old teenager - young enough to be his daughter.
Anchises
Leader of the Coconut Tree Fremen
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Uff like maybe cool it with the political hot takes a little bit?
- Location
- Perth
Eh, after watching everything crash and burn because some hacks thought Austerity was a good idea... and doomed Europe to a solid decade of economic hardship for reasons that were later found to be 99% made up. Well, it's hard to be neutral on the topic. Not when it's resulted in the political landscape that we see right now. All of the rioting in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal... all of it because some people decided to lock down the economies of the entire EU on the strength of like... 2 studies... which were then proven wrong. Then the IMF had to come out in 2015 and say 'Austerity is stupid, EU, can you like not?' and the EU reserve bank went 'Austerity is stupid, but we can't do anything because of the law...'
Or the British who didn't even need to do Austerity... but did it anyway because we're evil I guess?
It's not a hot-take in that there is much stronger language that can be used to describe the horror that has been the EU's economic policy in the last 15 years. Starting from the shit shovelled onto the Greeks to cover up the sheer incompetent failure of the French and German banks in the GFC, all the way to now where they can't agree on a stimulus package for Italy, Greece and others hit hardest by Covid.
Anchises
Leader of the Coconut Tree Fremen
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Germany in the EU is an ally as bad as the German Reich in WW2" is very much a hot take with extra spicy sauce on top. I'm not going to start a policy debate with you just my five cents.
- Location
- Perth
If we're talking about that point.
WW1 Germany, we're going to ally with Austria-Hungary and plan an offensive. That we say we're going to provide half the manpower for, to buy a year of time for the AH to train and rebuild their military. Then we pull out at the last moment AH's manpower is shattered, their veterans dead and... ugh, we got nothing?
WW2 Germany, we're going to ally with the Italians but, despite being the superior military force. Not provide any training and help, constantly insult them, steal their supplies, provide the minimum amount of assistance possible, then blame them for everything after the war is over.
Germany EU, we're going to be part of this coalition but since our economy is focused almost entirely on exports, are going to build a supply chain in Hungary and Romania. But since our economists who are hacks say the EU needs a balanced economy, we're going to force France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece and everyone south of us to run deficits so we can run a surplus. Then we're going to blame them for their struggling economies and not pass any stimulus bills or bail them out when our banks fail.
Like, there are entire books written on how bad Germany and Prussia before it is in terms of being a Coalition Partner or ally.
Robert Citino's Death of the Wehrmacht, The Wehrmacht Retreats, The Wehrmacht's Last Stand for example.
Like... I don't know what else to say to convince you? You could look at Angela Merkel's activity in the last few months/years to see how little she's done despite the economic issues I guess?
- Location
- Perth
I'm not sure what you're trying to ask? You say perspective, yet the entire post you quoted had was focusing on economics and politics. Yet war crimes and the holocaust is what you pulled from it?
The entire perspective analysis is wrong here, if this was a Source Anaylis test you would get a 0 out of 4 in the;
Perspectives and interpretations
• analyse and account for:
----> the different perspectives of individuals in the past
----> the different perspectives of groups in the past
(From the SCSA Sample Assessments page: https://senior-secondary.scsa.wa.ed...1-sample-assessment-tasks-WACE-201516_pdf.pdf)
Like if you wanted me to respond to what you had in your head and not what I typed, you need to have it typed out.
On that note, I'm out. As you can probably tell from the file I linked, I have assessments on the mind and need to get back to writing them.
Apalos
Funk Soul Brother
- Location
- Chicagoland
40 year difference? Jeez, the local, regional, world economic impact is going to be insane. We'll get hit with a depression, worse than what we have now. Possible good news is that Covid 19 might be butterflied away, but that's a long shot.
Alot of companies are gone, or a shadow of their former selves. (ex. BP, HSBC, TESCO, etc...)
The entire army is outdated and everyone is stuck in a cold war mentality.
Looking at OP " its colonies, Dependent Territories, concessions and sovereign waterways and airspace " if that brings back Canada, Australia AND Hong Kong as well, the damage is going to be spread across the entire globe. Biggest issue I see, other than the whole EU/Brexit thing, is Hong Kong. Is China going to allow it to go back to the UK? Are they going to invade and occupy what they see as their territory? Will UK respond with outdated military technology? Are they going to call upon all their allies? I can seriously see the China/Hong Kong issue as potentially kicking off a brand new war, maybe even WW3, but that's the pessimist in me talking.
Alot of companies are gone, or a shadow of their former selves. (ex. BP, HSBC, TESCO, etc...)
The entire army is outdated and everyone is stuck in a cold war mentality.
Looking at OP " its colonies, Dependent Territories, concessions and sovereign waterways and airspace " if that brings back Canada, Australia AND Hong Kong as well, the damage is going to be spread across the entire globe. Biggest issue I see, other than the whole EU/Brexit thing, is Hong Kong. Is China going to allow it to go back to the UK? Are they going to invade and occupy what they see as their territory? Will UK respond with outdated military technology? Are they going to call upon all their allies? I can seriously see the China/Hong Kong issue as potentially kicking off a brand new war, maybe even WW3, but that's the pessimist in me talking.
Except that doesn't help Northern Ireland, there's a reason the GFA includes an Amnesty on both sides.
the atom
Anarcho-Kemalist Thought Leader
- Location
- Comfortably numb
Did Australia and Canada really count as 'dependent territories' back then?
AYC
Make blunts not bombs
- Location
- California
Much as I dislike Thatcher, I will admit she was damn smart and knew how to absolutely dominate a room with her presence. That likely means the US-UK relationship will be less lopsided than it otherwise would be considering the tech gap because of how incredibly easily she'll be able to manipulate Trump and make him look so, so stupid.