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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
The same applies for Viserys, of course, but I wouldn't pull any punches if I was running him.
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To be fair, we never do.

A more interesting take would be that stuff does interact, and it does come down to a brawl inside an AMF.

As usual, a big diferential would be the ability to no-sell certain things on D&D magic, and raise the dead.
 
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Goldfish said:
Great Dragon vs Viserys would come down to initiative and how serious they take each other as opponents. If the Great Dragon realizes just how dangerous Viserys is, it could cast hard, throwing out multiple extremely high Force spells, maybe a bunch of One Less Dragon, that might as well be a Heightened Destruction or Avasculate spells. But the Greats don't tend to fight in that manner, and rely on their ability to Counterspell or shrug off enemy magic more than they really should. At their level of power and proficiency, they tend to shut down one another's magic, meaning the combat ends up being a melee brawlfest more often than not. Their Counterspelling would do nothing against Viserys' magic, just as his Spell Resistance wouldn't work against their's.

The same applies for Viserys, of course, but I wouldn't pull any punches if I was running him.
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It ultimately boils down to how you rule the systems, both magic itself and their effects on HP / Wounds, armor and so on, interact with each other.

Also, I personally always considered Counterspelling a fools bet, due to how you can boost your own casting much easier then your counterspelling and because a crafty caster can easily use indirect attacks that won't allow counterspelling at all.
TotallyNotEvil said:
Oh? Do go on.
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The core issue is failure rate of trained PCs on simple tasks. Shadows tried to address that with stupid high DCs and large bonuses, making simple tasks auto-successes, but at the same time, that makes many rolls meaningless while provoking a ton of bookkeeping. On the other end of the spectrum, you have systems where a seasoned war veteran with a hundred battles under his belt will hit, at best, half the time, barring the dice hating him.

Dice-Pool systems are much more predictable in this regard and deliver more consistent results.
 
Duesal said:
@Goldfish, if you really want, we now have enough free Adamantium to deck out the 47 Fighter 2 Minotaurs and Argo and Aubert Flowers in Reinforced Segmented Adamantium Fullplate.

29,321.5 lbs (original supply) - 20,240 lbs (47 Fighter 2 Minotaurs) - 440 lbs (Argo the Cunning) - 55 lbs (Aubert Flowers) = 8585.5 lbs

We now have the means to pull this scheme off.
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I would actually rather not devote that much Adamantine to Minotaur armor. I don't know what we would use it for, yet, but it would almost certainly end up being more useful that concentrating so much of it on such a small number of combatants.

Maybe we could use it for Constructs?
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Sounds like a certain system I've mentioned before :V
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Considering the sheer amount of stuff we've talked about over the years, jog my memory. Which one?
Goldfish said:
I would actually rather not devote that much Adamantine to Minotaur armor. I don't know what we would use it for, yet, but it would almost certainly end up being more useful that concentrating so much of it on such a small number of combatants.

Maybe we could use it for Constructs?
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If you don't need it for something urgent, I could need a ton or so for adamantine tipped projectiles.
 
Goldfish said:
I would actually rather not devote that much Adamantine to Minotaur armor. I don't know what we would use it for, yet, but it would almost certainly end up being more useful that concentrating so much of it on such a small number of combatants.

Maybe we could use it for Constructs?
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In that case the Herald comes to mind.

How about Adamantium weapons at least for the Minotaurs?
 
Goldfish said:
I would actually rather not devote that much Adamantine to Minotaur armor. I don't know what we would use it for, yet, but it would almost certainly end up being more useful that concentrating so much of it on such a small number of combatants.

Maybe we could use it for Constructs?
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I'd also rather not just deck the minotaurs out in adamantine armour from nowhere.
large greataxe is 24lbs each, which is a bit better than full armour.

Except Argo, who is special :D
 
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Herald should be at least CR 10.

It would be cooler if its effects/abilities made it more like CR 12 though.
 
Azel said:
We really need an updated Herald.
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I would offer to do it if I had any idea what I was doing.

However, I do have lots of things I want to see implemented in there.

1. Mostly Valyrian Steel because it would be so cool, but mostly for practical purposes
2. Incorporate that Orb of Wildfire inside him so that every single fire attack bypasses immunity
3. Build in Aerial Alacrity to make him a much better flier than he otherwise would be. And yes, this is more than worth the cost.
 
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Azel said:
Considering the sheer amount of stuff we've talked about over the years, jog my memory. Which one?

If you don't need it for something urgent, I could need a ton or so for adamantine tipped projectiles.
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At 50 arrowheads or bolt tips per pound, that would be 100,000 projectiles.

Not a bad use of the Adamantine, but not really all that good either.

Adamantine weapons would be among the best uses, IMO. Not just daggers like we've made for the party, but swords and axe heads. Ignoring object Hardness is just amazing for destroying stuff, including an opponent's shields and weapons. Hacking down doors and walls is nice, too.
 
The Herald was always thought up as a discount Iron Golem in dragon shape. So I would love to keep that aspect, whatever else happens.

Maybe rebrand the original write-up as "Lesser Herald".
 
@Azel Not a bad idea. We could have multiple heralds, and then a Greater Herald which entreated with the REALLY high mucky mucks.
 
Goldfish said:
At 50 arrowheads or bolt tips per pound, that would be 100,000 projectiles.

Not a bad use of the Adamantine, but not really all that good either.

Adamantine weapons would be among the best uses, IMO. Not just daggers like we've made for the party, but swords and axe heads. Ignoring object Hardness is just amazing for destroying stuff, including an opponent's shields and weapons. Hacking down doors and walls is nice, too.
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I didn't mean bolts. I meant artillery shells.

The kind you use to violate fortresses and turtle ships.
 
Azel said:
The Herald was always thought up as a discount Iron Golem in dragon shape. So I would love to keep that aspect, whatever else happens.

Maybe rebrand the original write-up as "Lesser Herald".
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I'd definitely like this. A few Lesser Heralds, and then a Greater Herald which gets all the amazing goodies.
 
Azel said:
The core issue is failure rate of trained PCs on simple tasks. Shadows tried to address that with stupid high DCs and large bonuses, making simple tasks auto-successes, but at the same time, that makes many rolls meaningless while provoking a ton of bookkeeping. On the other end of the spectrum, you have systems where a seasoned war veteran with a hundred battles under his belt will hit, at best, half the time, barring the dice hating him.
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On this, you singled out roll-over for a reason, as in roll-under isn't so problematic, or just because you happened to use it?
 
Azel said:
I didn't mean bolts. I meant artillery shells.

The kind you use to violate fortresses and turtle ships.
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Maybe an Adamantine tip or penetrator, but I wouldn't make the entire shell out of it. That would be criminally wasteful. Remember, the stuff is worth 600 IM per pound, minimum.
 
Goldfish said:
Maybe an Adamantine tip or penetrator, but I wouldn't make the entire shell out of it. That would be criminally wasteful. Remember, the stuff is worth 600 IM per pound, minimum.
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60 IM per pound actually, if we go by Pathfinder pricing.

And no, of course just the tip. No point in making more then that out of the expensive super-material.
 
@Azel I'm confused.

What would be the fundamental difference between launching a solid steel shell at something and an completely Adamantine one, anyway? For either to have a deleterious effect on what they hit, they would have to be launched with great force from their platform, and with kinetic weaponry once you achieve a certain amount of force, what you launch starts to receive diminishing returns.

Edit: Of course you answer this just as I post...
 
Azel said:
60 IM per pound actually, if we go by Pathfinder pricing.

And no, of course just the tip. No point in making more then that out of the expensive super-material.
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Bah, you're using trade good pricing. I'm using finished good pricing. Why sell a pound of Adamantine for 60 IM, when you can sell a one pound Adamantine dagger for 600 IM? There's a reason such weapons are so expensive and it's not just because of the skill required to make Masterwork weapons. With a Hardness of 20, and an object's innate resistance to energy damage, it is blatantly impossible to work with Adamantine without using serious magic to heat it to the proper temperature for forging, or just cheating and using Fabricate (which is pretty high level, all things considered).

Even by modern standards, it would be impossible to machine Adamantine. For any kind of precision work, you would have to use some sort of sintering. I have no clue how you could forge it; maybe laser welding or thermite? It's only about half a step down from Marvel's Adamantium.
 
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