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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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TotallyNotEvil said:
One has awesome spirits, ancient mystical ruins, tremendous danger and adventure, crazy archer chicks (who can't shoot for shit IIRC), and the bestest adventurer/healer/spy protagonist.

The other doesn't.

Guess which I'd like to see continued :V
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Problem with Shadows was that the plot went nowhere and I really couldn't find a way to unbork that.

It would take a restart, not a continuation in my opinion. More streamlined and with a heavier emphasis on a proper plot.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
One has awesome spirits, ancient mystical ruins, tremendous danger and adventure, crazy archer chicks (who can't shoot for shit IIRC), and the bestest adventurer/healer/spy protagonist.

The other doesn't.

Guess which I'd like to see continued :V
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I'd actually love a revival of that quest. We just got our awesome spiritbone bow.

EDIT: And we even got our first party member!
 
Azel said:
Alright, since @Crake already got dibs on Harry Potter, I would like to call dibs on my wild idea of the Companions getting stranded in Shadowrun.

Simply because of the glorious scene of a Johnson ascensing Viserys and starting to scream like a little girl.
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One of the reasons I wanted to use Garin only would be that his range of abilities, while extremely powerful, aren't completely setting breaking like Viserys and some of the other Companions. He would be a scary motherfucker, though, especially once he got a decent grounding in Shadowrun-era technology.

If you do it, I hope that Shadowrun magic and D&D magic have no interaction at all. It wouldn't make much sense if they did, IMO.
 
@Azel I'm never sure about this, since from a tabletop perspective, for all practical purposes, Shadowrun Great Dragons are essentially "Powerlevel: Yes", but how would a Mature Adult Red Chromatic Fullcasting 20th Level Sorcerer with access to Cleric Spells, probably all manner of magical items/artifacts and a Grimoire of Spell Knowledge bursting with Divine and Arcane spells Viserys compare to one of them?
 
Goldfish said:
One of the reasons I wanted to use Garin only would be that his range of abilities, while extremely powerful, aren't completely setting breaking like Viserys and some of the other Companions. He would be a scary motherfucker, though, especially once he got a decent grounding in Shadowrun-era technology.

If you do it, I hope that Shadowrun magic and D&D magic have no interaction at all. It wouldn't make much sense if they did, IMO.
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I would actually go the other way around and force the Companions to conform more to the SR magic system, by virtue of that universes magic simply working differently.

Because otherwise, even Firebrand would be so hilariously overpowered that it stops being funny. Even Garins short range teleportation is setting breaking and in clear violation of the local rules of magic.
 
Duesal said:
EDIT: That said, I'm kind of looking forward to Dragon!Viserys in Harry Potter.
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This could lead to a somewhat darker, but also pretty interesting in exploring an unseen side, of Viserys being classified as a magical creature.

How would the government interact with the most powerful magical creature they've ever seen before? Viserys can raise the dead from level 14 onwards, after all. And spell resistance and saves in the 20s, when if you model wizards as the usual 3rd-6th level peeps with perhaps some DR (which is a thing from cannon IIRC) and tremenous overpowered SLAs/Special Ability to mimic their casting, Viserys will shrug off magic like water from a duck's back.

Wanna bet that the Killing Curse is considered unblockable just because it hasn't met one of:
- Wings of Flurry
- High SR
- A +20 Fort save

Not to mention the many summons with Death Ward as SLA.
Azel said:
She gets an early admission to Hogwarts by virtue of being capable to murder a whole auror team with a flick of her wrist and starts as a firsty with Harry.
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Have you good gentlemen ever head the Good Word?

I bet she'd use and abuse the Polymorph class feature, as becoming a YA Red Dragon or a Planetar would be pretty damn useful for killing squishy wizards and low-level monsters (which, let's be frank, HP stuff is) without running out of spells.

Her usual loadouts, especially as a prepared caster, are very very versatile and potent, but run out quick in a big running battle or anything of the sort. She is very good at killing high-CR Outsiders, but nowhere near as good at dealing with crowds of mid-level opponents, not more than a few times a day.
 
Azel said:
I would actually go the other way around and force the Companions to conform more to the SR magic system, by virtue of that universes magic simply working differently.

Because otherwise, even Firebrand would be so hilariously overpowered that it stops being funny. Even Garins short range teleportation is setting breaking and in clear violation of the local rules of magic.
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Ah, so he would morph from a Chromatic to a Shadowrun dragon?

...I still can't tell if that would be more powerful or not?
 
@Azel It would be funny to have Viserys and the Companions just wandering around Seattle, or some other Shadowrun hotspot, with their auras hanging out for anyone capable of Astral Perception to see and boggle over.
 
Crake said:
@Azel I'm never sure about this, since from a tabletop perspective, for all practical purposes, Shadowrun Great Dragons are essentially "Powerlevel: Yes", but how would a Mature Adult Red Chromatic Fullcasting 20th Level Sorcerer with access to Cleric Spells, probably all manner of magical items/artifacts and a Grimoire of Spell Knowledge bursting with Divine and Arcane spells Viserys compare to one of them?
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Shadowrun magic is a lot weaker then D&D magic. You need a very good mage in SR to replicate a simple Fireball.

This matchup? Viserys would waste the other dragon in a round. Even the big guys.
Though, that assumes a 1 on 1 duel without orbital kill-sats being fired at Viserys.
Goldfish said:
@Azel It would be funny to have Viserys and the Companions just wandering around Seattle, or some other Shadowrun hotspot, with their auras hanging out for anyone capable of Astral Perception to see and boggle over.
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So every runner group with a mage spontaneously leaves the area? With area being defined as north america?
 
Azel said:
Problem with Shadows was that the plot went nowhere and I really couldn't find a way to unbork that.

It would take a restart, not a continuation in my opinion. More streamlined and with a heavier emphasis on a proper plot.
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Rewind by a few chapters?

Time-skip the current quest (investigating something IIRC, it really felt like we had no options to follow that through) to a more interesting point?

I really want to keep our achievements on that, those were earned with a whole lot of sweat, tears, dog-shit luck and munchinkiry.
Goldfish said:
If you do it, I hope that Shadowrun magic and D&D magic have no interaction at all. It wouldn't make much sense if they did, IMO.
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I think you could reasonably model Shadowrun stuff as Incarnate abilities?
Crake said:
I'm never sure about this, since from a tabletop perspective, for all practical purposes, Shadowrun Great Dragons are essentially "Powerlevel: Yes", but how would a Mature Adult Red Chromatic Fullcasting 20th Level Sorcerer with access to Cleric Spells, probably all manner of magical items/artifacts and a Grimoire of Spell Knowledge bursting with Divine and Arcane spells Viserys compare to one of them?
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Casts Miracle: Immune to Nukes.

Starmantle: Pretty cruise missile you got there, would be a shame if it's fully mundane and I can't fail a DC 15 Ref save.
 
Azel said:
I would actually go the other way around and force the Companions to conform more to the SR magic system, by virtue of that universes magic simply working differently.

Because otherwise, even Firebrand would be so hilariously overpowered that it stops being funny. Even Garins short range teleportation is setting breaking and in clear violation of the local rules of magic.
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I don't see how that would work at all, to be honest. The two systems couldn't be more different and still be called magic.

And while extremely rare in flesh and blood creatures, the Harlequin and Ehran the Scribe are both capable of physically entering the Astral Plane, then traveling at the full speed of an Astral form, before returning their physical forms. For all intents and purposes, that's teleportation. It's nice to be an Immortal Elf with ancient magical powers that haven't been seen in six thousand years. And spirits of all sorts can switch between Astral and Material forms, again approximating teleportation. You just have to worry about sufficiently powerful Mana Barriers or Wards blocking your travel.

Garin's short-range teleportation abilities would be very powerful, but not something most savvy combatants in the Sixth World should be incapable of dealing with.
 
It's right up there with a "ominous" rating in terms of Needs To Be Added In around here.
 
Duesal said:
Did they all lose their Greater Ribbons of Disguise?
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Different kinds of auras. The Ribbons hide the auras that point to your Alignment, spells you are affected by, and whatever may be attached to your gear.

Assensing in Shadowrun is more like looking at your soul. It's actually a lot closer to how DP uses True Seeing in this quest, but more metaphysical.
 
@Goldfish Though DP doesn't really borrow that fluff for True Sight from Shadowrun, but instead the Dresden Files.

You can actually tell that that he draws from there because the Dreamscape is a lot like the Nevernever.
 
Crake said:
You can actually tell that that he draws from there because the Dreamscape is a lot like the Nevernever.
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On that note, how would a crossover with that go?

It's recently been the topic of a lot of discussion in the giantitp forums, actually, a lv 20 wizard with full WBL being dropped in the Dresdenverse.

It seems that, on one hand, the wizards are pretty tame, relatively speaking, on the other, everyone has some conceptual bullshit to throw around, doubly so for the majormost players.

But then again, D&D also has a ton of absolute effects. Like Freedom of Movement, and Death Ward, and AMF.
 
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Goldfish said:
I don't see how that would work at all, to be honest. The two systems couldn't be more different and still be called magic.

And while extremely rare in flesh and blood creatures, the Harlequin and Ehran the Scribe are both capable of physically entering the Astral Plane, then traveling at the full speed of an Astral form, before returning their physical forms. For all intents and purposes, that's teleportation. It's nice to be an Immortal Elf with ancient magical powers that haven't been seen in six thousand years. And spirits of all sorts can switch between Astral and Material forms, again approximating teleportation. You just have to worry about sufficiently powerful Mana Barriers or Wards blocking your travel.

Garin's short-range teleportation abilities would be very powerful, but not something most savvy combatants in the Sixth World should be incapable of dealing with.
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I must admit that I always ignored the whole Immortal Elf shenanigans from the fluff, since it always felt a lot like a parade of author avatars with a mile thick plot-armor and new powers as necessary.

If you let Garin be blocked by barriers and wards, then I think his ability would be unique and dangerous, but not setting-breaking.
TotallyNotEvil said:
Wouldn't it be a shame if there was some way of becoming immune to mundane weapons...
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Then they use orichalcum tipped warheads. I'm a bit rusty on anti-spirit weaponry, but there is stuff made to geek magical threats.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Rewind by a few chapters?

Time-skip the current quest (investigating something IIRC, it really felt like we had no options to follow that through) to a more interesting point?

I really want to keep our achievements on that, those were earned with a whole lot of sweat, tears, dog-shit luck and munchinkiry.
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Thing is, I've had a lot of time to think about this and something I noticed about both SotP and ToH is that I completely fucked up the systems.

For some insane reason I made a d100 roll-over system. Twice. Despite having mathematically proven to multiple gaming buddies over the years that these systems suck balls and are hellish to balance properly.

I seriously don't know what in the nine hells I was thinking.
 
Azel said:
Then they use orichalcum tipped warheads. I'm a bit rusty on anti-spirit weaponry, but there is stuff made to geek magical threats.
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I mean, then you Wings of Cover it, or Celerity + Resilient Sphere.

Or buy a Ring of Evasion to go with your Starmantle and make that DC 15 Ref save.

There are lv 3-4 divine spells that don't let you die from HP loss, even.
 
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Azel said:
Shadowrun magic is a lot weaker then D&D magic. You need a very good mage in SR to replicate a simple Fireball.

This matchup? Viserys would waste the other dragon in a round. Even the big guys.
Though, that assumes a 1 on 1 duel without orbital kill-sats being fired at Viserys.

So every runner group with a mage spontaneously leaves the area? With area being defined as north america?
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Great Dragon vs Viserys would come down to initiative and how serious they take each other as opponents. If the Great Dragon realizes just how dangerous Viserys is, it could cast hard, throwing out multiple extremely high Force spells, maybe a bunch of One Less Dragon, that might as well be a Heightened Destruction or Avasculate spells. But the Greats don't tend to fight in that manner, and rely on their ability to Counterspell or shrug off enemy magic more than they really should. At their level of power and proficiency, they tend to shut down one another's magic, meaning the combat ends up being a melee brawlfest more often than not. Their Counterspelling would do nothing against Viserys' magic, just as his Spell Resistance wouldn't work against their's.

The same applies for Viserys, of course, but I wouldn't pull any punches if I was running him.
 
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