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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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tarrangar said:
tortured or killed slaves for fun or profit
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Fun or profit are totally different forms of motivation.

See, one can be apathetic and don't care about slaves, and torture to profit from them. But when you torture for fun, you are recognizing the target's ability to suffer and its importance, and you are still torturing them. That is capital E evil.
 
Dimensionist said:
Reminds me of Demiurge from Overlord. That's pretty much exactly what he does (except he doesn't bother to transform them into cattle before feeding the parents their own children).
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Hey now, Demiurge is perfectly civil! He separates the families so you only eat other people's children! Any limbs and/or organs that he cuts up he makes sure to regrow!

He even has an amazing skin-care regime for them! What other captor goes out of his way so his captives are ensured smooth, strong skin?
 
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tarrangar said:
Which is why I want having tortured your slaves for fun or profit to be a sacrifice worthy offence, not slavery in general, but to have tortured or killed slaves for fun or profit specifically, that we could easily check for, and I believe that kind of evil deserve being hung on a heart tree.
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Depending on your definition of 'torture', pretty much everyone who's owned a slave has tortured them at some point.
 
Tomcost said:
Fun or profit are totally different forms of motivation.

See, one can be apathetic and don't care about slaves, and torture to profit from them. But when you torture for fun, you are recognizing the target's ability to suffer and its importance, and you are still torturing them. That is capital E evil.
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I know they are totally different motivations, but I believe both of them deserve to be punished by sacrifice, fun might be worse than profit, but profit is still bad enough, that you should be a valid target for sacrifice.

Sure the guy who bought and killed a slave because he likes killing people, might be a worse person than the guy who bought and killed a slave, to demonstrate that the weapons he was selling, can cut someone in half in a single swing, but both of them are evil enough that I want them to be sacrificed.
 
Tomcost said:
Where is Irony?
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In a vial in Vee's pocket. He would be rather noticeable otherwise.

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 4, 2018 at 4:56 PM
This vote count is in an error state, please contact support
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on May 4, 2018 at 4:56 PM, finished with 74 posts and 11 votes.
  • [X] Plan "A Magpie's Lament"
    -[X] Viserys turtles the Thanadaemon and the enemy mage, if it still lives. If captured, heal the enemy turtle-mage to prevent it's untimely demise..Gather any dropped loot.
    -[X] Lya restores Dany's negative level with a Restoration spell. Dany renews her Sign spell.
    -[X] From altitude, determine wear the fighting remains heaviest, then use Teleport to transport Richard, Lya, and Dany to that location.
    -[X] Moonsong returns to her group and continues putting down any resistance.
    -[X] Amrelath begins hunting down any stray Daemons.
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065tdsa said:
Depending on your definition of 'torture', pretty much everyone who's owned a slave has tortured them at some point.
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Which is why I specified for fun or profit, I get that whippings and such as punishment is just part of the toxic culture Tyrosh has, but there's a difference between whipping a slave as punishment, and whipping a slave because you are bored and their screams amuse you, as are there between doing it as punishment, and doing it because you are demonstrating how effective your whips are at making the punishment hurt to your customers.

Basically while I don't like it, I accept that harsh physical punishment is the norm in Tyrosh when it comes to slaves, but punishment is one thing, doing it on a whim is another, and doing it to earn money is a third, and I believe both the torture device seller, who torture his slaves to demonstrate his wares, and the sadist who torture his slaves for his own pleasure, are a special kind of evil even by the standards of a slave state, and so deserve to be sacrificed to the old gods.
 
We totally should brain-melt the cultist kidnapper for all info he has before sacrificing him.
Names of all children aside, this ritual, for all it was used for terrific things, may not be all that bad by itself.
 
egoo said:
We totally should brain-melt the cultist kidnapper for all info he has before sacrificing him.
Names of all children aside, this ritual, for all it was used for terrific things, may not be all that bad by itself.
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It's not nearly as useful as you might think. It probably needs an already subdued prisoner in order for the ritual to take effect, and if that's the case we can already restrain or contain said individual without issues.
 
ryuan said:
It's not nearly as useful as you might think. It probably needs an already subdued prisoner in order for the ritual to take effect, and if that's the case we can already restrain or contain said individual without issues.
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My policy is "There is no bad arcane knowledge, long as it exists, it can probably be used in conjunction with something else to make something better".
Sure, it's useless for us in adventuring.
But it's a magical ritual we, potentially, could trade away.
Or have our future R&D department set on it to make a more useful version.
And on and on and on.

Not taking it, though? That actually means less choice available to us.

Also, if it isn't evil and doesn't require high-level spellcasters, it's a great tool for NightWatch.
Taking a turtle with you back to the tree is much easier than a winter-y abomination.
 
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egoo said:
My policy is "There is no bad arcane knowledge, long as it exists, it can probably be used in conjunction with something else to make something better".
Sure, it's useless for us in adventuring.
But it's a magical ritual we, potentially, could trade away.
Or have our future R&D department set on it to make a more useful version.
And on and on and on.

Not taking it, though? That actually means less choice available to us.
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Nobody said not to take it, just said that we shouldn't hype it took much.
 
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Part MCMLXXX: The Scouring
  • Threadmarks
    • The Scouring ​

    Twenty-Seventh Day of the Second Month 293 AC

    There is something uniquely absurd, yet satisfying just the same, about turning so fearsome a fiend as could put armies to flight to the shape of a helpless beast. You are somewhat surprised when that shape is an over-large black rat and not a turtle as you might have wished, but to your relief the beast has nothing more to defend itself beyond filthy teeth and scratching claws. It has, however, retained the full measure of its foul temperament.

    "He's alive alright!" Dany says, pouring a trickle of healing power into the former captain of the fiendish horde, nowhere near enough to wake him, but sufficient to ensure that he does not die to some mischance in having his flesh transmuted so close to perishing. His end will be a far grander affair, one that will give some aid to the city for all the evil he has wrought.

    "Can I keep that until it's time?" Moonsong asks, struggling and failing to hold back laughter. "It would make an excellent song to just dangle it around to see the utter ruin of all he has worked towards." Usually it's easy to forget that Moonsong's humor can have a vicious edge to it. Not so now. The smile upon her delicate features would do credit to a shadowcat.

    "Don't you still have songs of battle yet to sing?" you remind her.

    "Right... chasing rats down holes." She gives a mock-sigh. "Don't think I'll be able to catch any quite so fat as that one, though."

    Amrelath seems to have settled for finding her antics amusing because he decides to accompany the gossamer-winged fey, trailing the whirlwind of broken, cursed bone in his wake. No doubt he will break off along the way to tear stray daemons from the sky from both greed and disgust at their presence.

    "Is that entirely wise to make use of in full view of the city?" Lya asks.

    What do you reply?

    [] Let Amrelath continue

    [] Ask him to destroy the undead (3 Bonestorms)
    -[] What do you offer in exchange (Can include everything he looted off the fiends if you wish)

    ***​

    As you ascend anew to get a proper image of how the battle is going, the picture that presents itself is actually quite heartening. The attacks on the north gate have slackened almost entirely, with only a few stray madmen and ravening undead previously hidden in the horde continuing their frenzied attacks until they are cut down.

    The Plaza of the Drunken God has also been secured almost bloodlessly, with only a few clashes with vastly smaller guard patrols reported around the perimeter, though maintaining a tense standoff with the the guardians of the temple of Trios. As soon as the four of you land you are greeted by Bronn, happy at the easy victory, and Valaena who seems considerably more conflicted that she did not perform any deeds of note in the battle.

    "You might want to fly down south, Your Grace," a nervous officer speaks up. "Supposedly the Red Priests are offering to send their Fiery Hand to help keep down the city 'so long as you free the slaves'," he adds obviously affronted at the implication that you might not do so. "The Flame Keeper wants to talk to you to make arrangements before letting armed men loose on the streets."

    "Sensible," Ser Richard allows grudgingly. "Would not hurt to take a look down there just in case the others need help smoking out the damn lunatics holed up there."

    What do you do?

    [] Speak to the Red Priests
    -[] Write in

    [] Go help one of the other groups
    -[] Group 3 (Waymar, Malarys, Xor, Tyene, Spyglass Archon)
    -[] Group 2 (Garin, Wyla, Maelor, Vee, Spyglass Archon)

    OOC: The northern groups are basically handling stray fiends and looters at this point.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • So...
    Three Bonestorms, caster, that kidnapper-cultist and a Thanadaemon, right?
    What are we looking at in terms of fertilizing value, here?
     
    Poor Valaena. She's getting pretty glory hungry, I see. Asha should talk to her about the very exciting time she had not fighting Salladhor's fleet, when Deepcleft fell to our rule.

    I want those fiendish items for sacrifice...so I'm reluctant to trade them for Amrelath to stop making it obvious he's an undead monstrosity, but we should probably still do it. Bleh.

    Finally...I think delaying talking to the Red Priest might be better for us. If he gets the fiery hand out soon enough, he can share in the victory, and claim some part of it for the red god. If we only show up to talk to him after everything is settled, for the most part, he can't really try that trick.
     
    Bonestorms aren't sentient. Which is why it says "destroy".

    But in terms of value, with any unique items we trade for from Amrelath, and whatever else the other groups caught, we should have enough tainted items for a tree, and probably enough HD for another tree so long as we pad it out with lots of cultists.

    In all likelihood, since most of them are being cut down where they stand, we'll only have enough HD and CL total for a couple Tier 3 trees.
     
    Crake said:
    Bonestorms aren't sentient. Which is why it says "destroy".

    But in terms of value, with any unique items we trade for from Amrelath, and whatever else the other groups caught, we should have enough tainted items for a tree, and probably enough HD for another tree so long as we pad it out with lots of cultists.

    In all likelihood, since most of them are being cut down where they stand, we'll only have enough HD and CL total for a couple Tier 3 trees.
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    Well, hopefully we get that knife Azel added in his omake, entirely untelatedly to any other loot.

    @everyone, Tyrosh tree first, then Philosopher's Tree and (if there are items left) NightWatch tree, right?
     
    tarrangar said:
    Some cultists do things like that, but cultists run the gamut for how hardcore evil they are just as much as slavers, they are all evil of course, but they run from extreme evil like that to just blood sacrifice from power, so while the worst of the cultist, are a bit worse than the worst of the slavers, there are plenty of cultists less evil than the evilest of slavers.

    After all slavers do such things as torturing innocents for fun or profit, so while the average slaver is less evil than the average cultist, there are slavers just as bad the average cultist, and yet those slavers wont be sacrificed.
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    Not quite, even those cultists "just" sacrificing for power are torturing innocents for fun and profit, their masters revel in pain and despair, look at how they Divinate, the poor girl was carved into a ritual circle by a swarm of rats.

    Besides sacrifice is not and will not be a punishment, it's effective use (and denial) of resources and we've made the decision that the profit point is at those who consort with the various powers of dominion and destruction.

    Both because they have the correct modifiers to increase their worth (spellcasting, undead etc.) And because the "cost" of public opinion is low.

    Slavers are low HD, vanilla humans who "cost" more than the high HD +modifier sacrifices.

    It's just bad business.
     
    egoo said:
    Well, hopefully we get that knife Azel added in his omake, entirely untelatedly to any other loot.

    @everyone, Tyrosh tree first, then Philosopher's Tree and (if there are items left) NightWatch tree, right?
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    Tyrosh Tree, then Dawn Fruit Tree, then everything else. The sooner we grow the Dawn Fruit Tree the sooner we get thousands of that Dawn Fruit every month. We're not skipping over this.
     
    Well, It seems like moonsong has claimed yet another soul, poor amrelath, he has lived for longer, true, but being trapped in a tower does not grant Wisdom of the outside world, that girl is nothing but trouble old bones.

    [X] Let Amrelath continue
    [X] Speak to the Red Priests
    -[X] Tell them that their aid is unnecesary to secure the city and that you already plan on freeing the slaves, that much should be clear.
    -[X] Ask if his men know of any places that requieres particular protection, or if he has any advice on how to proceed so that more lives can be saved, we could use his local knowledge.

    Make It clear we dont need the help alone, but if he has information that can make a real impact, we are willing to let them join in the Glory.
     
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    Those jokers better not get in the way.

    We spent a lot of time an effort into planning this party, they've got no right to crash it just when things are getting good.
     
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