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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
I'm betting that they won't peacefully coexist with us. The Seven have a very clear attitude of "all magic must be our magic or perish" that fundamentally goes against everything we're building our kingdom up to be. I will be well and truly shocked if they ever peacefully coexist with a sorcerer king and his guild who explicitly aren't under their control.

As for killing the Seven, that's just a desire without an actual plan. If we ever get the chance then I'd love to go for it. We've got Yss in the flesh and the Old Gods who would probably cheer us on despite having only asked us to humble the Seven.

Mainly, though, wanting to kill the Seven is because of a personal grudge. I got seriously pissed when asked to give up our magic and submit.
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The Seven will just have to adapt, I'm not even sure how ironclad those rules are, they certainly haven't been going after the Lannister's, and the Maiden's Cleric is working with mages not of the Seven.

I'm guessing in the last age of sorcery, it was merely a degree to be wary of magic not from the Seven, then it got warped into a full ban, after the gods lost most of their communication after the doom, the Cleric of the father is reflecting this aspect of the Seven, and he was made specifically to face us, that don't mean it's one of the most major part of them, considering the Cleric of the Maiden hasn't been told to stop working with those mages, I'm guessing for most aspects of the Seven it's only a minor matter, distasteful but not all that important.

And I don't think Brienne's asking us to give up magic and turn to the Seven, was a decree from them, I think it was an 8 year old child, trying to find a way to convince a person she liked, to turn away from his heathen ways, just because Brienne is a Paladin don't mean all she say is directly from the Seven, she's only level 1 and has only spoken with the Seven once, most likely all she has been told, is her Paladin code and how to use her abilities.

Seriously at that point she was a Paladin that just got her powers, and we have seen with the old gods, how limited the amount of information a god can give at once is, I seriously doubt she was speaking for the Seven, as opposed to just saying what she believed they would want her to from her religion education.
Duesal said:
I certainly hope they will. Turning/diplomancing clerics and paladins and killing any that want to kill us sounds great to me.
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We will probably have to fight at least a few.
One Autumn Leaf said:
I respectfully disagree with you since gods don't change. Gods do not repent or act like they are in the wrong. if there is one theme throughout myths it's this, especially to a human. When they said Humble the Seven I knew that this was going to end in either a perpetual war or dead gods. Gods do not bend, they do not change. Because that is their nature.
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That's not how D&D gods work, they explicitly change with their worshippers, whether they want to or not, and I don't think Bloodraven would have told us to just bloody their nose, if he believed we had no chance at making peace with them afterwards, the very fact that Bloodraven's quest is to humble them, not make a war on them to the bitter end, shows that he believe they can be reasoned with after that, and honestly I trust the guy who has been in contact with gods for decades, more at judging their mindstates than I do you.

The fact Bloodraven told us to humble them then make peace, shows that peace is at a minimum a possibility.
 
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tarrangar said:
The Seven will just have to adapt, I'm not even sure how ironclad those rules are, they certainly haven't been going after the Lannister's, and the Maiden's Cleric is working with mages not of the Seven.

I'm guessing in the last age of sorcery, it was merely a degree to be wary of magic not from the Seven, then it got warped into a full ban, after the gods lost most of their communication after the doom, the Cleric of the father is reflecting this aspect of the Seven, and he was made specifically to face us, that don't mean it's one of the most major part of them, considering the Cleric of the Maiden hasn't been told to stop working with those mages, I'm guessing for most aspects of the Seven it's only a minor matter, distasteful but not all that important.

And I don't think Brienne's asking us to give up magic and turn to the Seven, was a decree from them, I think it was an 8 year old child, trying to find a way to convince a person she liked, to turn away from his heathen ways, just because Brienne is a Paladin don't mean all she say is directly from the Seven, she's only level 1 and has only spoken with the Seven once, most likely all she has been told, is her Paladin code and how to use her abilities.

Seriously at that point she was a Paladin that just got her powers, and we have seen with the old gods, how limited the amount of information a god can give at once is, I seriously doubt she was speaking for the Seven, as opposed to just saying what she believed they would want her to from her religion education.

We will probably have to fight at least a few.

That's not how D&D gods work, they explicitly change with their worshippers, whether they want to or not, and I don't think Bloodraven would have told us to just bloody their nose, if he believed we had no chance at making peace with them afterwards, the very fact that Bloodraven's quest is to humble them, not make a war on them to the bitter end
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Look we aren't going to convince each other on this. That much is certain therefore I would like to shelve the discussion for later. When the time comes we will decide. Until then let's drop it for now.
 
Maybe we should ask Bloodraven to clarify how much counts as 'humbling' the Seven, because I'm pretty sure you need to humiliate them Ten Plagues of Egypt style before the message sinks in.
 
Personally, all I care about is that the Seven are neutralized as a threat to our rule.

If they give up and co-exist peacefully? Fine.
If we can selectively smite the troublesome aspects to make them shut up? Also fine.
If we have to exterminate them entirely? Sure. That's perfectly fine too.

They get the same deal all the other gods get. Leave us alone and we leave you alone. Start something, we end it.
 
[X] Duesal

The Seven will get to decide how much of their ass we need to kick, because the answer is 'as much as is needed for you to stop acting like assholes' and that ball is in their court.
 
tarrangar said:
And I don't think Brienne's asking us to give up magic and turn to the Seven, was a decree from them, I think it was an 8 year old child, trying to find a way to convince a person she liked, to turn away from his heathen ways, just because Brienne is a Paladin don't mean all she say is directly from the Seven, she's only level 1 and has only spoken with the Seven once, most likely all she has been told, is her Paladin code and how to use her abilities.

Seriously at that point she was a Paladin that just got her powers, and we have seen with the old gods, how limited the amount of information a god can give at once is, I seriously doubt she was speaking for the Seven, as opposed to just saying what she believed they would want her to from her religion education.
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Let me make this clear, I'm not blaming Brienne herself since she's just a child who grew up in this religion and was suddenly validated by her gods. But that being said, the views she expressed on magic are the views of her gods. She might as well have been speaking for the Seven in that case.
DragonParadox said:
"You should not seek to shoulder such a burden alone," she offers, sounding a trifle overwhelmed yet still resolute. "Surely the Seven would hear your prayers and aid you in your time of need that you would not need to take up sorcery for the task."
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DragonParadox said:
Duesal said:
Thinking on that, I am astonished that Dannelle the Cloistered Cleric of the Maiden hasn't been raising shit with her party members for having non-Seven-related magic.
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She actually is pretty conflicted on the matter, but at the end of the day she was born a peasant, practical. As long as lightning bolts do not start falling from the sky or the maiden does not personally tell her that she should ditch the wizards she figures the monsters in front of her not the wizards at her back are the most pressing issue.
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DragonParadox said:
And the man did so. He saw the Seven Kingdoms as the Garden of the Faithful Hugor had been promised, but amid the flowers he was something that shook him to the bottom of his soul. The ghastly light of sorcery spreading like a blight, twisting men and women from the path of the Seven and their loving embrace. Sometimes they joined with the foes gathering in the distance, while others grew and grew in profane knowledge and accursed pride.

"It need not be so," the voice called Lucan from his despair a third time. "For are not the greatest of medicines gathered from the most perilous of sources? I task you do be my gardener to these you see here, tend to them and gather then onto the proper path," the Father said almost pleading. "And weed them out if you cannot," a harshness like steel was in his words now.
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So far the Champion of the Smith is the only Champion that hasn't expressed this view, and for all we know DP just hasn't gotten around to having him express it.
DragonParadox said:
A Son's Prayer
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EDIT: And I desire to kill the Seven, but ultimately I'm with Azel on this. I want to be top dog in this situation. If the Seven can't live with that then we'll happily oblige. If they can accept it then they can live in subservience.
 
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@Duesal if you're really insistent on killing the Seven, you might want to ask Bloodraven on ways to kill Gods while we're there.

If there was anywhere that we would find out how to do it, it would either be with him or in the ruins of Valyria.
 
Azel said:
Personally, all I care about is that the Seven are neutralized as a threat to our rule.

If they give up and co-exist peacefully? Fine.
If we can selectively smite the troublesome aspects to make them shut up? Also fine.
If we have to exterminate them entirely? Sure. That's perfectly fine too.

They get the same deal all the other gods get. Leave us alone and we leave you alone. Start something, we end it.
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Ironically, killing them all still leaves them a threat to our rule, they have a buttload of followers in Westeros, religious fanatics Will remain a threat for at least a century after we kill their gods.
If we can spare even one of them, It might be enough to ease the conversion to our new pantheon.
 
[X] Duesal

@DragonParadox

Did Viserys bring really warm clothes for Rahella, yeah? And a PfE amulet (from Leila)?

Viserys knew he was planning on taking her bones north a while ago. He probably would have thought of this, with time to get the PfE made? It occurred to me just there now, but would it be ok to retcon it in? :)
 
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bigbow said:
Honestly, we should chuck a level 30 Ser Richard at them and be done with it.
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I gotta admit, I highly doubt we will reach anywhere near level 30 in the scope of this quest.

At that point, it becomes so High Fantasy that it is no longer recognizable as ASoIaF, which I recall a lot of people complaining about over the past few days.
If one of our party members is strong enough to kill an entire pantheon of Gods that have worshipers in most of a continent, than we should have ended the quest far before that occurred, as the only challenges then would be taking over the Lower Planes or something equally ridiculous.
 
BeepSmile said:
[X] Duesal

@DragonParadox

Did Viserys bring really warm clothes for Rahella, yeah? And a PfE amulet (from Leila)?

Viserys knew he was planning on taking her bones north a while ago. He probably would have thought of this, with time to get the PfE made? It occurred to me just there now, but would it be ok to retcon it in? :)
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We have PfE scrolls and Dany currently has it as a 3/day SLA. She can also prepare it, if necessary.

We were also just given three sets of Masterwork winter gear.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I gotta admit, I highly doubt we will reach anywhere near level 30 in the scope of this quest.

At that point, it becomes so High Fantasy that it is no longer recognizable as ASoIaF, which I recall a lot of people complaining about over the past few days.
If one of our party members is strong enough to kill an entire pantheon of Gods that have worshipers in most of a continent, than we should have ended the quest far before that occurred, as the only challenges then would be taking over the Lower Planes or something equally ridiculous.
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You are right after that is Conquest of the Great Wheel: Rise of the Dragon King and maybe by then I'll be able to make Sir Richard a Sword Sage/Quasi-Deity of loyalty, valor, courage, war and patron of dealing with and overcoming madness and stupid ludicrous bullshit.
 
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Wheel of time said:
You are right after that is Conquest of the Great Wheel: Rise of the Dragon King and maybe by then I'll be able to make Sir Richard a Sword Sage/Quasi-Deity of loyalty, valor, courage, war and patron of dealing with and overcoming madness and stupid ludicrous bullshit.
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Do a lot of people actually want for us to get to that point though?

I remember there being a lot of salt about this quest becoming less an ASoIaF quest and more of a DnD quest with small additions from ASoIaF.
Having the quest become "Dragon Viserys takes over the Planes" would be entirely abandoning Planetos for planar shenanigans, at which point it's basically a DnD quest about an Epic Level Dragon.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Do a lot of people actually want for us to get to that point though?

I remember there being a lot of salt about this quest becoming less an ASoIaF quest and more of a DnD quest with small additions from ASoIaF.
Having the quest become "Dragon Viserys takes over the Planes" would be entirely abandoning Planetos for planar shenanigans, at which point it's basically a DnD quest about an Epic Level Dragon.
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I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't mind eventually. That endgame is a very long way off. I want to build the empire ASOIAF style. I want to go to war, diplomance, intimidate, and subdue. I want the glory of being the most powerful dragon on the plane.

Once we're done with all that then I'd happily go to epic levels.
 
@One Autumn Leaf, what is the King's Avatar doing in our game? Has Glory became too tedious for the Battle God?

[X] Duesal

Now I'm off to backread, you monsters! (It was up to page 5540 last time I viewed this thread :confused:)
 
Duesal said:
I wouldn't mind, but I wouldn't mind eventually. That endgame is a very long way off. I want to build the empire ASOIAF style. I want to go to war, diplomance, intimidate, and subdue. I want the glory of being the most powerful dragon on the plane.

Once we're done with all that then I'd happily go to epic levels.
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I would greatly mind, personally.

If we ever get even near to the point that the Others are a nuisance and the Gods all bow before our might, that is the point that I will retire from the quest.
Becoming a Dragon? Sure, dragons can and have been killed by mortals, and do so relatively frequently.

Becoming a God/getting Divinity? Would really rather not, as I don't think anyone should be that powerful without extremely heavy restraints, and the quest would soon becoming boring if we had to restrain ourselves to such a level.

Getting the power of a God or more without restraints? That is a big no no for me, and I will call bullshit on stupid power level nonsense.

Conquering the entirety of Planetos is about as far as I'm willing to go to be honest, and even then that seems like too much.
 
Goldfish said:
We have PfE scrolls and Dany currently has it as a 3/day SLA. She can also prepare it, if necessary.

We were also just given three sets of Masterwork winter gear.
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And the PfE is always on if not suppressed/overcome and we'll be making one anyway.

Also, I prefer to play Viserys as someone that is thoughtful in this regard. Helps stop bad things when the thread misses something.

Winter Gear for a girl, a man and a bigger man.
And the woman should have some bloody clothes - she's a bone right now.

"Hey ma, welcome back, here's your awesome daughter that creeps out anyone not used to her, I'm capable of turning into a Dragon and oh, oops, didn't think that you might get a bit nippy here north of the wall."

"Or that something might try to mess with your head while we're in the north and the others have divined our path and ambush"
 
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Raichu1972 said:
I would greatly mind, personally.

If we ever get even near to the point that the Others are a nuisance and the Gods all bow before our might, that is the point that I will retire from the quest.
Becoming a Dragon? Sure, dragons can and have been killed by mortals, and do so relatively frequently.

Becoming a God/getting Divinity? Would really rather not, as I don't think anyone should be that powerful without extremely heavy restraints, and the quest would soon becoming boring if we had to restrain ourselves to such a level.

Getting the power of a God or more without restraints? That is a big no no for me, and I will call bullshit on stupid power level nonsense.

Conquering the entirety of Planetos is about as far as I'm willing to go to be honest, and even then that seems like too much.
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If we do get that far it will be because we've slogged through the effort of conquering the world and beating back the various apocalypses and forging the greatest empire in the history of Prime Material. And frankly I would enjoy having earned our spot at the top, that's why I wouldn't mind breaching epic levels and beyond.

But given that you yourself don't even think we'll get that far:
Raichu1972 said:
I gotta admit, I highly doubt we will reach anywhere near level 30 in the scope of this quest.
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I'm not sure why this is even a concern for you?
 
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