I don't think that you can cut the Imperium into anything less than 15-20 parts without losing meaningful granularity. It's just too big.

In a normal Empire Builder, this complexity would have slowly expanded and players growing with the system, but that isn't really working here. All the complexity was front-loaded and we keep dumbing down things year after year, because it never went far enough to actually solve the problem.

So I don't think anything less than going full CK2 system would be a sufficient cut in complexity at this point.

That is a totally fair point that I had not fully considered.

I guess that this rework needs to strip down as much as possible and then consider adding things as needed. I definitely don't have the knowledge of the current mechanics to make any judgements of what is and isn't essential to the core of the quest.

I am just trying to consider how you best provide information to the players, and it is likely that you are right and the rework needs to be as simple as possible to ensure that anyone can easily understand it without missing any important information which could be accidentally buried.
 
Azel is not wrong, im not exactly a new player since I have read the quest but a) is to long and b) it often feel waaaaay to mehcnaics heavy to get a thing meaing that in term of proposal a plan I just going to whatever other poster said, which end being quite frustrating at times.

and at about 80 you are in the Empire of the Dawn

What is exactly your take on the empire of dawn exactly?.
 
Part MMMDCCLXXX: Arts of Flesh and Forging
Arts of Flesh and Forging

Thirtieth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

As the Imperium celebrated the forges worked. As the Twelve Hour War raged in the west and guttered to ash the forges worked. As the Lion of the West was stripped of his pelt and torn of his claws the forges worked. In noxious fumes and flashes of sky-fire contained in wombs of artificial flesh.

Many new beasts were wrought and many more imagined, 'to help bring peace to the realm' Excelsus Necros Plastes Qyburn said. In truth if one were to ask the girl, Vee, who still did not think of herself by any fancy title, it was just fun to put together all manner of beasts the likes of which had never lived and without them would never have been born. There was a rush to it, a stutter of danger in your heart wondering if this time a gas sack would burst or if one the enhanced mind-fibers would snap. The rush of managing it just right, of seeing the growth of the new embryos unfolding like flowers of flesh when they were flash-grown behind the tubes of spelled glassteel.

After all, the point was to see all the ways in which the forge could be broken, in mind and in body. All the ways in which the power of the Far Realm, or other stranger things, could like a dagger be stabbed into the heart of the forge. And that meant some things were going to blow and some things were going to break, and the guiding mind was going to be... grumpy about it.

The vaulted halls of bone shook, the membranes shaking like the guts of some colossal beast.

Alright, maybe more than a little grumpy, Vee thought.

Worth it though. With the lore they had gotten from the Azure Court it was now possible to make it so every light in the forge would mark many of the common thought worms of the Deep Ones. It would actually make your brain shine inside your head, which Vee thought looked kind of nice and Wisdom Elaheh agreed, though for some reason not even Dany agreed.

Of course it helped that there were new sorts of dead 'knights' walking the corridors. In addition to the black steel knights that were by now common enough to have been spread far beyond Gogossos there were now others too abroad. Shining silver and a gleaming sort of purplish adamantine, and being as they were dead puppets for the molds to use they were just as tireless but would not be easily twisted from their commands. Vee wondered how the warforged would take meeting them though.

Vee had heard that Anu had set up a new forge of the metal-smiting sort in Myr to help house the souls of lost Sarnor. Maybe some of them would even choose to stay among the dead now that they could have the swiftness of true silver or the might of adamantine.

***​

Outside under the heavy murk of Sothoryos legionaries were laying out the newly made razor wire to guard against the beasts of the jungle and worse things besides. Corporal Aelor was very glad indeed that he did not have to do the job himself but instead could order some of the Stitched Men to unroll the stuff. It was nasty if it got into you and the wound went sour in less than an hour if you did not have the whit to go to a healer, which one knucklehead had not done and they had needed to call on Wisdom Vee herself since he came down with some strange jungle fever that was half a curse.

A pity the new serpent-stone thief-catchers were too expensive to set to watch for idiots and had to be set to trigger only for enemies. From what little he understood of the matter the wards would burn up like a candle wick after enough triggering and would need to be laid again, not to mention that it slowly decayed from all the 'loose magic' in the air.
  • Forge Protections Upgraded
  • Completed Metal-Clad Template (Mithral and Adamantine)
  • New Forge of Creation Built in Myr
  • Proximity Alarms and Razor Wire Done
OOC: This is really short, I know. One of the shortest updates I did in a while because I genuinely do not feel like I can shove alchemy and ritual crafting in here, never mind the dream stuff.
 
Arts of Flesh and Forging

Thirtieth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

As the Imperium celebrated, the forges worked. As the Twelve Hour War raged in the west and guttered to ash, the forges worked. As the Lion of the West was stripped of his pelt and torn of his claws, the forges worked. In noxious fumes and flashes of sky-fire contained in wombs of artificial flesh.

Many new beasts were wrought and many more imagined, 'to help bring peace to the realm' Excelsus Necros Plastes Qyburn said. In truth if one were to ask the girl, Vee, who still did not think of herself by any fancy title, it was just fun to put together all manner of beasts the likes of which had never lived and without them would never have been born. There was a rush to it, a stutter of danger in your heart, wondering if this time a gas sack would burst or if one the enhanced mind-fibers would snap. The rush of managing it just right, of seeing the growth of the new embryos unfolding like flowers of flesh when they were flash-grown behind the tubes of spelled glassteel.

After all, the point was to see all the ways in which the forge could be broken, in mind and in body. All the ways in which the power of the Far Realm, or other stranger things, could like a dagger be stabbed into the heart of the forge. And that meant some things were going to blow and some things were going to break, and the guiding mind was going to be... grumpy about it.

The vaulted halls of bone shook, the membranes shaking like the guts of some colossal beast.

Alright, maybe more than a little grumpy, Vee thought.

Worth it, though. With the lore they had gotten from the Azure Court, it was now possible to make it so every light in the forge would mark many of the common thought worms of the Deep Ones. It would actually make your brain shine inside your head, which Vee thought looked kind of nice and Wisdom Elaheh agreed, though for some reason not even Dany agreed.

Of course, it helped that there were new sorts of dead 'knights' walking the corridors. In addition to the black steel knights that were by now common enough to have been spread far beyond Gogossos, there were now others too abroad. Shining silver and a gleaming sort of purplish adamantine, and being as they were dead puppets for the molds to use they were just as tireless but would not be easily twisted from their commands. Vee wondered how the warforged would take meeting them though.

Vee had heard that Anu had set up a new forge of the metal-smiting sort in Myr to help house the souls of lost Sarnor. Maybe some of them would even choose to stay among the dead now that they could have the swiftness of true silver or the might of adamantine.

***​

Outside under the heavy murk of Sothoryos, legionaries were laying out the newly made razor wire to guard against the beasts of the jungle and worse things besides. Corporal Aelor was very glad indeed that he did not have to do the job himself, but instead could order some of the Stitched Men to unroll the stuff. It was nasty if it got into you, and the wound went sour in less than an hour if you did not have the whit to go to a healer, which one knucklehead had not done and they had needed to call on Wisdom Vee herself since he came down with some strange jungle fever that was half a curse.

A pity the new serpent-stone thief-catchers were too expensive to set to watch for idiots and had to be set to trigger only for enemies. From what little he understood of the matter, the wards would burn up like a candle wick after enough triggering and would need to be laid again, not to mention that it slowly decayed from all the 'loose magic' in the air.
  • Forge Protections Upgraded
  • Completed Metal-Clad Template (Mithral and Adamantine)
  • New Forge of Creation Built in Myr
  • Proximity Alarms and Razor Wire Done
OOC: This is really short, I know. One of the shortest updates I did in a while because I genuinely do not feel like I can shove alchemy and ritual crafting in here, never mind the dream stuff.
Made a few additional edits, DP.

Damn, Sothoryos is a brutal place. Infections setting in so quickly makes it seem like the continent might have been a dumping ground for Valyrian Flesh-Smiths deep in the past. Probably nice to have the razor wire there, too. The stuff won't slow down any of the larger mega fauna, but then walls would hardly do that either. Just being able to more easily deter the smaller beasties is going to be helpful, though. No one wants to get velociraptor'd.
 
Made a few additional edits, DP.

Damn, Sothoryos is a brutal place. Infections setting in so quickly makes it seem like the continent might have been a dumping ground for Valyrian Flesh-Smiths deep in the past. Probably nice to have the razor wire there, too. The stuff won't slow down any of the larger mega fauna, but then walls would hardly do that either. Just being able to more easily deter the smaller beasties is going to be helpful, though. No one wants to get velociraptor'd.

It is wort keeping in mind that there can only be so many giant dinoes even in the judges of the Green Hell. Most of what the garrison faces is smaller thought still dangerous beasts, especially the ones who are clever and agile enough to go up trees and thus maybe even walls if given enough time.
 
I'm a-okay with this all being compounded as quick as possible.

Nobody cares but the people IC.
Even me.

We don't even have the numbers Mason in play to justify 'caring' for some of the RAs.
Only that not caring suddenly would be OOC.

You'll show more RAs yet or ye done, @DragonParadox?
Imma cull the list if not (when I wake up, that is), and keep only generally narratively weighty stuff, so you can lift from there into turnvote.
 
I'm a-okay with this all being compounded as quick as possible.

Nobody cares but the people IC.
Even me.

We don't even have the numbers Mason in play to justify 'caring' for some of the RAs.
Only that not caring suddenly would be OOC.

You'll show more RAs yet or ye done, @DragonParadox?
Imma cull the list if not (when I wake up, that is), and keep only generally narratively weighty stuff, so you can lift from there into turnvote.

I still have to show the dreams and alchemy. Both of those are major elements which will have a narrative impact going forward. One of the major public works projects you will be able to do is making alchemy widely available in a province. Unlike magic which someone has to learn over months and years alchemy is something that just has to be shipped in and you are done, magic in a bottle.
 
Small addition from me to the defenses of Gogossos.

Along the perimeter, small vents are placed that are connected to sacks full of gas produced by the forge. When the vent is touched or a nearby proximity alarm trigger, it dispenses a substance designed to ward off animals and less determined intruders:

Stench of Death
This colorless gas has an extremely noxious smell and is charged with some minor magic that makes anyone exposed to it think they are smelling their own rotting flesh. A creature exposed to Stench of Death must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 5 minutes, and a DC 15 Will save (SU, Mind-Affecting) or become Shaken for 5 minutes. If the creature fails both saves, it instead becomes Panicked.

Edit: Inspired by Thioacetone.
 
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Small addition from me to the defenses of Gogossos.

Along the perimeter, small vents are placed that are connected to sacks full of gas produced by the forge. When the vent is touched or a nearby proximity alarm trigger, it dispenses a substance designed to ward off animals and less determined intruders:

Stench of Death
This colorless gas has an extremely noxious smell and is charged with some minor magic that makes anyone exposed to it think they are smelling their own rotting flesh. A creature exposed to Stench of Death must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 5 minutes, and a DC 15 Will save (SU, Mind-Affecting) or become Shaken for 5 minutes. If the creature fails both saves, it instead becomes Panicked.
I wonder if Dragon urine would be an animal repellant?

Or, knowing the proclivities of Dragons, it might instead be a lure or even an aphrodisiac.

Dragons...
 
Part MMMDCCLXXXI: Perilous Philters
Perilous Philters

Thirtieth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

It would be a bit of a misnomer to talk about alchemical factories for all that the hexagonal walled structures certainly fit the bill if one only had an eye on the door in, constantly refilled from carts and cisterns of strange substances, and the way out, always delivering goods of a sort the world had never seen, yet which all the citizens of the Imperium embraced with a verve unmatched by any other magic. Who, after all, did not need insect warding fumes, a cure for nausea, a reliable match, a simple philter against unwanted pregnancies, a balm against wounds and another against toxins? And that was without considering some of the more restricted applications, the ones that filled the enemies of the Imperium with dread, or simply made them too dead to feel anything at all.

Yet for all the bounty that left these halls for good and for ill it was not a place of manufacture as most would understand it. Each of the Transmutation Complexes were built of nine layers, three of igneous rock, born and bathed in fire, three of sedimentary rock, the fingerprint of life long past, and three of metamorphic stone which in its nature held the essence of transformation that would define the alchemical arts.

Now six and nine were numbers mismatched in one element and that was with intent, for a system in balance is a system in stasis and it was the task of those who worked within to craft by not quite ritual, but by spell so soft it was almost imperceptible, the works of arcane excellence.

Denys Trainer had been given a hell of a task and not just because he was somehow to work with mages of Volantis and those of Braavos and Naath and keep them from each other's throats. The pumps and the grinding wheels, the arcane torches and the vats of ever bubbling acids where the refuse of one process could be made the reagent of another, all these had been designed with a careful hand and with an eye not just to productivity, but safety too.

The failure states that would in a ritual of tens of even hundreds of unaided participates go ill only for them could for mass transmutation be a blight upon land, air and water for longer than the grandchildren's grandchildren of those alive today could reckon. It was not that Denys and Naria between them, with the aid of their many willing assistants, had not found means to make the processes of accretion and distillation more effective, it was that those means were necessarily more energetic, more volatile and more dangerous in case of accident or sabotage.

"More dangerous than the forges in Lys or in Gogossos?" the Lady Naria had asked, not in accusation, but more in thought, getting Denys to consider the implication of his fears.

"No, not that..." He did not fully understand the processes that gave the Flesh Forges their arcane vitality, and if he were entirely honest with himself he did not want to, but there was one major distinction. Flesh Forges were mostly ran by their masters and various servitors who were little more than hands and eyes for the task, alchemical factories were run by minor Scholarum graduates with a skill and an interest in alchemy. Could they be trusted with lowered tolerances for higher productivity?

"It's not our call anyway, Master Trainer," one grey haired Braavosi mage who had never gotten the hang of saying 'wisdom' noted. "We sent the announcement to Sorcerer's Deep down south and then the Imperator makes the call, or maybe the new Minister of Magic they've been talking about."

It was not as it happened on the desk of the Minister of Magic that the letter arrived, but on the Imperial desk, awaiting for an Imperial seal. What do you choose?

[] Leave productivity where it is for now, you can slowly increase production as more alchemists become available

[] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient


OOC: Just a binary choice this time to show the greater level of abstraction, also because even a success in research does not have to be unambiguous, just like in real life.
 
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Pretty sure that was the research meant to find purely mundane chemicals to substitute for Alchemical substances, such as gunpowder, ether, fracked light oil and so on.

The military has an endless hunger for these things.
 
Pretty sure that was the research meant to find purely mundane chemicals to substitute for Alchemical substances, such as gunpowder, ether, fracked light oil and so on.

The military has an endless hunger for these things.

That was one of the things it could have done, they did not roll well enough to find that, so you are left with the option to improve output per factory:

-[] Improved Alchemy: The Imperium hungers for alchemical goods and much effort was poured into producing as much of them as possible, but it still does not even remotely satisfy the demand. Especially the military can devour concoctions such as Alchemists Fire or Explosive Packs at an astonishing rate. See about to either improve the output of your alchemical factories or to discover alternatives to these substances that are easier to mass-produce.
 
[X] Leave productivity where it is for now, you can slowly increase production as more alchemists become available
 
[X] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient

Production is severely lagging behind demand.

Also @DragonParadox, the wording is really ambiguous what each option is actually doing in terms of security.
 
[X] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient

Production is severely lagging behind demand.

Also @DragonParadox, the wording is really ambiguous what each option is actually doing in terms of security.

You guys can assume that every reasonable precaution will be taken in terms of security, if the factories become an easier target than they will be better protected with everything from divination to physical protection and background checks.
 
Perilous Philters

Thirtieth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC

It would be a bit of a misnomer to talk about alchemical factories for all the hexagonal walled structures certainly fit the bill if one only had an eye on the door in, constantly refilled from carts and cisterns of strange substances and the way out, always delivering goods of a sort the world had never seen, yet which all the citizens of the Imperium embraced with a verve unmatched by any other magic. Who, after all, did not need insect warding fumes, a cure for nausea, a reliable match, a simple philter against unwanted pregnancies, a balm against wounds and another against toxins? And that was without considering some of the more restricted applications, the ones that filled the enemies of the Imperium with dread, or simply made them too dead to feel anything at all.

Yet for all the bounty that left these halls for good and for ill, it was not a place of manufacture as most would understand it. Each of the Transmutation Complexes were built of nine layers, three of igneous rock, born and bathed in fire, three of sedimentary rock, the fingerprint of life long past, and three of metamorphic stone which in its nature held the essence of transformation that would define the alchemical arts.

Now six and nine were numbers mismatched in one element and that was with intent, for a system in balance is a system in stasis and it was the task of those who worked within to craft by not quite ritual, by spell so soft it was almost imperceptible, the works of arcane excellence.

Denys Trainer had been given a hell of a task, and not just because he was somehow to work with mages of Volantis, and those of Braavos and Naath, and keep them from each other's throats. The pumps and the grinding wheels, the arcane torches and the vats of ever bubbling acids, where the refuse of one process could be made the reagent of another, all these had been designed with a careful hand and with an eye not just to productivity, but to safety.

The failure states that would in a ritual of tens or even hundreds of unaided participates go ill only for them, could for mass transmutation be a blight upon land, air, and water for longer than the grandchildren's grandchildren of those alive today could recon. It was not that Denys and Naria between them, with the aid of their many willing assistants, had not found means to make the processes of accretion and distillation more effective, it was that those means were necessarily more energetic, more volatile, and more dangerous in case of accident or sabotage.

"More dangerous than the forges in Lys or in Gogossos?" the lady Naria had asked, not in accusation, but more in thought, getting Denys to consider the implication of his fears.

"No, not that..." He did not fully understand the processes that gave the flesh forges their arcane vitality, and if he were entirely honest with himself he did not want to, but there was one major distinction. Flesh forges were mostly ran by their masters and various servitors who were little more than hands and eyes for the task. Alchemical factories were run by minor scholarum graduates with a skill and an interest in alchemy. Could they be trusted with lowered tolerances for higher productivity?

"It's not our call anyway, Master Trainer," notes one grey haired Braavosi mage who had never gotten the hang of saying 'winoted'. "We sent the announcement to Sorcerer's Deep down south and then the Imperator makes the call, or maybe the new Minister of Magic they've been talking about."

It was not, as it happened, on the desk of the Minister of Magic that the letter arrived, but on the Imperial desk, awaiting for an Imperial seal. What do you choose?

[] Leave productivity where it is for now, you can slowly increase production as more alchemists become available

[] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient


OOC: Just a binary choice this time to show the greater level of abstraction, also because even a success in research does not have to be unambiguous, just like in real life. Not yet edited.
Made a few additional edits to the chapter, DP.

This was a pretty cool way to give some flavor to our Alchemical production, dude. It's not simple mundane chemistry, after all, but then it's not normal magic either.
 
That was one of the things it could have done, they did not roll well enough to find that, so you are left with the option to improve output per factory:

-[] Improved Alchemy: The Imperium hungers for alchemical goods and much effort was poured into producing as much of them as possible, but it still does not even remotely satisfy the demand. Especially the military can devour concoctions such as Alchemists Fire or Explosive Packs at an astonishing rate. See about to either improve the output of your alchemical factories or to discover alternatives to these substances that are easier to mass-produce.
I don't see why we can't sink another action into this to further refine our Alchemical production capabilities, right? Given the need for large scale production, it would definitely be worth more time and resources from the Ministry of Magic, IMO.

[X] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient
 
I don't see why we can't sink another action into this to further refine our Alchemical production capabilities, right? Given the need for large scale production, it would definitely be worth more time and resources from the Ministry of Magic, IMO.

[X] Increase production, you need more production now not later, the security of the factories against accident and sabotage is more than sufficient
That would be research, not Ministry of Magic.

MoM would be stuff like integrating Fey courts or making people less scared of mages.
 
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