And yet I still have, ever since learning about the Vale situation, this persistent, nagging image in my mind. The image of the Arryn from the strongest surviving branch, coming before the throne, looking upon Viserys and saying: "I demand that you give me the Eyri, which is mine, for I am the greatest living Arryn." And there would be a very awkward moment of silence.
That sounds like a very good way to be turned into an obsidian statue.

But how I actually picture it happening is they come sailing in with their big Andal dick swinging, dock, and as they move through the city, grow progressively and progressively more and more disconcerted by the stately grandeur, pomp, strangeness, luxuries and overall power projection. Airships with big-ass guns in the sky. Dragons flying through the air. Dozens of mages on every street corner. Ubiquitous magic, both personal items and infrastructure.

Then they walk up the path toward the palace, the biggest structure in the city.

Then they're finally granted their audience after a month of living in even more ridiculous grandeur and majesty, surrounded by figures of legend.

The walk before the throne room looking oh so very small, from the very back of the halls of power where they were relegated instead of the front ranks where the most powerful people in the realm gather. To plead their case. No, make their demands, they thought, when they sailed off from Gulltown.

Hit by the 100+ social score rankings of Viserys with the biggest circumstance modifier possible for looking intimidating upon his throne.

And he says:

"I'd like to rule the entire Vale... please... as is my right."
 
Hm. Well, 100 km/h would allow a train to reach most places in Western Essos or Westeros within a week, which is pretty good. It would allow most of the nobility and trade magnates the opportunity to network with their peers on a semi-regular basis. Though if we did passenger transport in the air at supersonic speeds, take annual train business trips and exchange that for full-blown tourist industries across the Imperium. I mean, Lys is the city closest to actually having a "tourist industry" and it can't really call that the most significantly profitable industry it has regardless.

I think we could produce two shipping vessels every two months without much trouble?
Probably better if we start with smaller vessels when your concern is mostly transporting people, not goods. We could start with some civilian-issue Pegasus transports and once business picks up we could consider larger vessels.

However, for the time being we are likely better served to expand the Imperial Airforce with all the production capacity we can muster.

That sounds like a very good way to be turned into an obsidian statue.

But how I actually picture it happening is they come sailing in with their big Andal dick swinging, dock, and as they move through the city, grow progressively and progressively more and more disconcerted by the stately grandeur, pomp, strangeness, luxuries and overall power projection. Airships with big-ass guns in the sky. Dragons flying through the air. Dozens of mages on every street corner. Ubiquitous magic, both personal items and infrastructure.

Then they walk up the path toward the palace, the biggest structure in the city.

Then they're finally granted their audience after a month of living in even more ridiculous grandeur and majesty, surrounded by figures of legend.

The walk before the throne room looking oh so very small, from the very back of the halls of power where they were relegated instead of the front ranks where the most powerful people in the realm gather. To plead their case. No, make their demands, they thought, when they sailed off from Gulltown.

Hit by the 100+ social score rankings of Viserys with the biggest circumstance modifier possible for looking intimidating upon his throne.

And he says:

"I'd like to rule the entire Vale... please... as is my right."
Hopefully you are right. People have this obnoxious tendency to get upset when you use the more aggressive methods to get rid of the stupid.
 
Last edited:
I don't. I want this shite to stop. The Essosi magisters finally got the message after a while, but I'm afraid the Westerosi will need to learn it all over again. And if it really happens, I'm very tempted to just use Disintegrate until the issue is resolved.
Dude, that's being too hopeful. We will need to make examples all over again for Westeros. At least with the Reach they will all be scared to the bone once we finish off the Court of Stars, but the rest of Westeros I am absolutely expecting nobles to overreach in ways we can't ignore.
 
Dude, that's being too hopeful. We will need to make examples all over again for Westeros. At least with the Reach they will all be scared to the bone once we finish off the Court of Stars, but the rest of Westeros I am absolutely expecting nobles to overreach in ways we can't ignore.
Let me hope.

At least we will have a lot of other people to help the process along. Zherys, Doran, Monford, old Brune, Ferrengo Antharyo, Roose, Walder Prime, maybe Qyburn if a few things pan out... That's a lot of people who will also want to fix the stupid.
 
Hopefully you are right. People have this obnoxious tendency to get upset when you use the more aggressive methods to get rid of the stupid.
Dude, that's being too hopeful. We will need to make examples all over again for Westeros. At least with the Reach they will all be scared to the bone once we finish off the Court of Stars, but the rest of Westeros I am absolutely expecting nobles to overreach in ways we can't ignore.

How I'm actually seeing it is the North doesn't really send anyone who could do something stupid to SD, and everyone who would do something stupid under other circumstances doesn't because we have a good relationship with them. Like the Umbers? By this point they'll know not to make any requests a spectacle and just send a letter. When someone does show up in court, it's because there's actually something of substance to raise a stink about it. Mormonts, same. Boltons would come and make a spectacle with our consent because we want to make a show out of it. Who are we to begrudge a vassal their flair for the dramatic?

From the Vale, we are unlikely to see them coming to embarrass themselves, because we would have been the most thorough in weeding out the stupid during the Reconquest. Paradoxically however,I admit some skepticism to even my own assertion here. It's not as though we aren't replacing one brand of stupid entitled Andals with a bunch of tribals who's cardinal fucking sin and vice is bravado to the highest possible degree. There may not be a sense of entitlement to the spectacles they make, but certainly a need to come off as "kind of a big deal", still.

From the Stormlands... I'm expecting a bunch of dour, overly-serious and reflexively competent and minimalist envoys/nobles. When someone raises a stink, it's because someone did something Dwarven Grudge-worthy.

From the Riverlands, I expect we'll see the most issues, if we don't periodically poke our necks over and smooth over squabbles. Just every now and then looking like we're taking the place seriously should seriously cut down on most of the issues--the biggest problem the area really has is that it had an overlord not actually powerful enough to be its overlord nor well-respected or connected enough to mediate disputes. That's not a problem we'll ever have. Just showing up might actually get people cooperating where before they were at each other's throats, because no one wants to look like the embarassing middle child after all the effort we put into developing its infrastructure, handing out city charters like candy and overall raising the standing of the place head and shoulders above like three or four surrounding Kingdoms.

The Westerlands I foresee basically being fucking silent for at least a generation, and the one after that will be very quiet and respectful. It might even be characteristic of the people from there overall depending on how heavy handed we are about its administration. Which is to say very.

Dorne will sink or swim on its ability to seem like they are ahead of the game in trends and overall tying themselves and their interests together with our own. They have the biggest chance to integrate with the inner echelons of high society at our court, and fashion/other trends will show. I see high society dress code being informed greatly by Essosi and Dornish sources, not only due to climate but inclination. They will be the schmoozers and socializers, or occasionally behind scandals, but practically no one will risk giving the whole ingroup a bad name at court if they can help it, which means rapid and extreme competence at covering ones hotheaded relatives mistakes up and covering ones own ass overall. This will likely be an extensison of the "perfidious Dornish" reputation, only you'll ironically see lots of people going to them when they want to get ahead at court. Because people are hypocrites,

The Crownlands will either be full of diehard loyalists who will literally word-for-word parrot our party line, or hideous sycophants clinging to delusions of grandeur about their place in society and generally ignored by some of their own peers because they know how precarious their own position is, and how very much they need to step up their game to remain relevant at court. The northern Crownlands will generally be the most well-regarded because while a little diehard, they at least will show up and do exactly what is expected of them, and then some.

The Iron Islands could go either way, but with careful consideration and input from our end they could end up being regarded as extremely competent traders, para-military figures and explorers. Sort of the Myrish equivalent.

The Reach, I'm really less certain about, I think overall there is a sense of arrogance from the Reach which keeps them disconnected from the rest of Westeros and the world at large due to perceived superiority and general self-absorption.
 
@Azel, while I generally agree, there is one thing we can arguably exchange such 'state secrets' for.

@DragonParadox, are there any particular branches of lore specific to Yi-Ti that would allow us to boost the creation of the Imperial Deity?
 
@Azel maybe we can share how to make undead that don't give off negative energy so it doesn't harm surroundings and land kami control?
 
@Azel maybe we can share how to make undead that don't give off negative energy so it doesn't harm surroundings and land kami control?
Erm.
That feels like a recipe for a disaster.
We are making those Undead a staple of our forces due to ease for effective Mindblanking and cost/effect ratio.
Someone else would find it really easy to subvert, sabotage, or just PR-smear them if they have the know-how to making them.

If we are to exchange "blood magic", well shite, we have "we can drop it with zero consequence to any of our projects"-lore of the degenerate Drow.
You know, the stuff that allows to slap vampiric templates on stuff.
We aren't really touching those since we have much better options than those few templates, and only keep an eye on the Psionic variant which is exotic enough.

We also have Craftsman's Pride (technically blood magic, since has a blood component), that we made use of to make everything in SD +1... But with our burgeoning economy, it's really, really not a strategic secret.
...Never was one tbh, since we shared it with so many craftsmen.

That should be enough for some exotic lore from Yi-Ti, imo?

Imma actually look for those vampire templates again, I don't think we ever added them to what we can grow in the forge...
 
I'll need to have more of a look, but generally yes, remind me to write a proper action text tomorrow.
Well, there we go, I guess.
@Goldfish, I think at this point, we can assume access to Addle-Minded and Repeatedly-Drained as Vampire templates as a freebie.
The rest I guess we have to research, I never really bothered adding them beyond the Psychic variant.

@Azel, do you think the Blood Maiden Plaques, giving access to these, are good enough of a throw-away for us to try and force more lore out of Yo-Ti?
 
What the fuck? No, advanced undead templates are not worth trading away for lore. We make it look so simple, but fleshcrafting is basically the purview of less than a handful of factions acting on the world right now, and we're one of them, which is kind of a big deal when we're also the only one trading with sane polities.

When you trade technical knowledge behind something, you aren't just trading the end product, you are trading away your market share.
 
Okay, how does this sound then?

[] Trade Crafter's Pride ritual.
-[] Exchanged for tentative Scholarum exchange program between Yi-Ti and Sorcerer's Deep.
[] Trade edited Blood Plaques of the Degenerate Drow (history and general practices, no direct fleshforging lore)
-[] Exchanged for elements-binding techniques of the Yi-Ti.



The above doesn't sell any state secrets, but shows that we are willing to at least nominally trade in the stuff they consider "yucky" and they can look to us instead of, say, Bloodstone Emperor.

The "elements-binding" is just the stand-in for whatever DP says can halp with Imperial Deity.
...Although it'd also halp with Outsider-forging, see our RA for making Fire-Outsiders having way too many steps if we want CR 20 Elemetnal Lords.


Imma not die on this hill if y'all don't feel like trading lore with them, I just prefer to try and grab some when an opportunity comes to us.
 
Last edited:
There's also a practical aspect to it. A palace and a throne room in particular convey a message to the viewer and greatly help to convey the self-image of the realm and it's ruler. Neoclassicist megalomania is particular good at conveying authority for example. Imagine standing in a throne room that is positively cavernous. You are standing with many other people on a rank to the side of a vast open space, seeing the huddled masses of people on the other ranks and those lesser in rank who stand on the floor far beneath you, looking all but like ants in the giant room. And to end sits a giant, golden throne, on which rests the only person who is capable of filling the room with his presence. While every other person who is allowed to speak in this room is handed a little magic item to amplify his voice, the one on the throne does not need it. While everyone else sounds like he vainly tries to shout loud enough to fill the vastness of the room, the ruler can command the entire room with the barest whisper. It's a setting for an audience which very strongly reminds you of your station and that you should be careful what you say in the presence of a true Imperator.
You are setting up an illusion that falters the moment someone with the volume of voice and the charisma to "fill" the room comes in.
That's unlikely for mortals, but common for dragons and higher outsiders.

Particularly any dragon would inherently overshadow the throne and talk to VIserys as an equal here.
Which is not bad to me, I'm just trying to say that even the most intimidating setup has limits and we can do it, but should not rely on it.
 
You are setting up an illusion that falters the moment someone with the volume of voice and the charisma to "fill" the room comes in.
That's unlikely for mortals, but common for dragons and higher outsiders.

Particularly any dragon would inherently overshadow the throne and talk to VIserys as an equal here.
Which is not bad to me, I'm just trying to say that even the most intimidating setup has limits and we can do it, but should not rely on it.
Unless the Throne itself amplifies the intimidation factor of the person sitting on it directly by being a Major Artifact... even then, being in your seat of power and dealing with people is more about implicit control by determining the order of operation and proceeding events.

As an example, the Sultana makes even a casual discussion in a more relaxed setting which is thoughtfully less onerous on us to deal with in terms of protocol seem intimidating because everyone present is completely under her control and all acting out theater just to shield us from the rest of her court.

Being able to decide when and how someone gets an audience with us generally means no one remotely equal to us in power is going to do anything but send an envoy to meet us there. Whereas we're currently fine with our clearly junior partner standing in the Opaline Vault specifically because we have no political aspirations there.
 
Eh, whatever. Riot-vote and all, even though I have zero problems with @Azel's.

[X] Trade Crafter's Pride ritual.
-[X] Exchanged for tentative Scholarum exchange program between Yi-Ti and Sorcerer's Deep.
[X] Trade edited Blood Plaques of the Degenerate Drow (history and general practices, no direct fleshforging lore)
-[X] Exchanged for elements-binding techniques of the Yi-Ti.
 
@egoo You are trading away wishful thinking and fairy dust. They want blood magic, if they want it for a specific reason like creating an army of abominations trapped in eternal agony, they will go to the edgy teenager closest and least reticent dark lord in the area for it.

Or they won't at all, because they are being genuine in their desire not to use it for anything but countering Dark Lord shit.

If nothing else, we want to seem like the only source of relief from the Ultimate Lifeform over there when we make our sales pitch.
 
Another nice throne room:
Your previous throne room was excellent, but the lighting here looks fairly terrible. Sure the King is lit up, but just because he has low-light vision doesn't mean everyone should shouldn't be visible too!
The court is all about seeing and being seen, etc.

How I'm actually seeing it is the North doesn't really send anyone who could do something stupid to SD, and everyone who would do something stupid under other circumstances doesn't because we have a good relationship with them. Like the Umbers? By this point they'll know not to make any requests a spectacle and just send a letter. When someone does show up in court, it's because there's actually something of substance to raise a stink about it. Mormonts, same. Boltons would come and make a spectacle with our consent because we want to make a show out of it. Who are we to begrudge a vassal their flair for the dramatic?
Yes, the North would be that stupid. This fits. It's what they did in canon, and they might continue if they stay poor and if traveling South stays difficult for them.
Our court isn't just a faceless bureaucracy, it's also a place to get the King's eye and benefit from his famous rains of generosity, as well as a place where appeals can be taken to the highest authority. Being here and getting to know people is a huge help to any lord, either in terms of "grabbing power and wealth" or "grabbing connections to rely on in the event of a disaster".
There's a reason why the Court exists, and it's not just people begging for money ;)

From the Vale, we are unlikely to see them coming to embarrass themselves, because we would have been the most thorough in weeding out the stupid during the Reconquest. Paradoxically however,I admit some skepticism to even my own assertion here. It's not as though we aren't replacing one brand of stupid entitled Andals with a bunch of tribals who's cardinal fucking sin and vice is bravado to the highest possible degree. There may not be a sense of entitlement to the spectacles they make, but certainly a need to come off as "kind of a big deal", still.
Yeah. And for some of them it might be their first time in an actual big city, which I find hilarious.

From the Stormlands... I'm expecting a bunch of dour, overly-serious and reflexively competent and minimalist envoys/nobles. When someone raises a stink, it's because someone did something Dwarven Grudge-worthy.
You know, Stannis isn't representative of Stormlanders. AFAIK Robert and Renly were.

The Westerlands I foresee basically being fucking silent for at least a generation, and the one after that will be very quiet and respectful. It might even be characteristic of the people from there overall depending on how heavy handed we are about its administration. Which is to say very.
I hope!

Dorne will sink or swim on its ability to seem like they are ahead of the game in trends and overall tying themselves and their interests together with our own. They have the biggest chance to integrate with the inner echelons of high society at our court, and fashion/other trends will show. I see high society dress code being informed greatly by Essosi and Dornish sources, not only due to climate but inclination. They will be the schmoozers and socializers, or occasionally behind scandals, but practically no one will risk giving the whole ingroup a bad name at court if they can help it, which means rapid and extreme competence at covering ones hotheaded relatives mistakes up and covering ones own ass overall. This will likely be an extensison of the "perfidious Dornish" reputation, only you'll ironically see lots of people going to them when they want to get ahead at court. Because people are hypocrites,
Good.

The Iron Islands could go either way, but with careful consideration and input from our end they could end up being regarded as extremely competent traders, para-military figures and explorers. Sort of the Myrish equivalent.
IMO they're mostly likely to be "nothing" or "disaster area" for a while. In the long term... I'm betting they'll be seen as explorers or especially daring traders.

The Reach, I'm really less certain about, I think overall there is a sense of arrogance from the Reach which keeps them disconnected from the rest of Westeros and the world at large due to perceived superiority and general self-absorption.
They're the pinnacle of the only value system they accept, and all the surrounding countries put some effort into imitating them and fail. Of course they think they're in charge. But how will that stack up in Essos, among people who don't even know (let alone care) about Westerosi noble/knight culture?

You are setting up an illusion that falters the moment someone with the volume of voice and the charisma to "fill" the room comes in.
That's unlikely for mortals, but common for dragons and higher outsiders.

Particularly any dragon would inherently overshadow the throne and talk to VIserys as an equal here.
Which is not bad to me, I'm just trying to say that even the most intimidating setup has limits and we can do it, but should not rely on it.
1: That's a problem inherent to any throne room
2: A fancy throne room stacks situational modifiers in our favor, and builds habit (nobles get used to looking towards the throne and seeing authority, and get used to the throne being the "center of gravity" of everyone's movements through the room). This will help in any hypothetical "charismatic Outsider arrives" scenario, and should stop us ever being entirely overshadowed.
 
@egoo You are trading away wishful thinking and fairy dust. They want blood magic, if they want it for a specific reason like creating an army of abominations trapped in eternal agony, they will go to the edgy teenager closest and least reticent dark lord in the area for it.

Or they won't at all, because they are being genuine in their desire not to use it for anything but countering Dark Lord shit.

If nothing else, we want to seem like the only source of relief from the Ultimate Lifeform over there when we make our sales pitch.
Thing is, we can either trade something, and hope for good rolls, or not trade at all and don't have even a chance of getting something good outta it.

Yeh, our hand isn't great here.
But I just don't see a reason not to try to swindle them some.
The worst-case scenario is they refuse the trade and we end up at square one, having lost nothing of value (since they'd be doing the exact same to us were the positions reversed, I'm pretty sure).
 
You know, Stannis isn't representative of Stormlanders. AFAIK Robert and Renly were.
Ah... loud and impulsive.

Then let us make Stannis representative. Every time someone emulates Stannis, they get a treat. Everytime they remind us of Robert, we loudly mention how they remind us of Robert.

They should get the picture fast. Very fast.
 
Thing is, we can either trade something, and hope for good rolls, or not trade at all and don't have even a chance of getting something good outta it.

Yeh, our hand isn't great here.
But I just don't see a reason not to try to swindle them some.
The worst-case scenario is they refuse the trade and we end up at square one, having lost nothing of value (since they'd be doing the exact same to us were the positions reversed, I'm pretty sure).
Or let's not be greedy assholes and carefully and deliberately consider mutually beneficial bargains with people we want something from.

Like we would do otherwise with generally anyone.

This is a culture group who generally aren't ignorantly superstitious, but superstitious with a reason behind their belief system. And anyone remotely worth talking to knows enough about magic to know what is valuable, and what is a heaping chamber pot of bullshit.

If you want to be a snakeoil salesman, you should have considered pushing for it when Westeros was trying to find their own ass with both hands and put together some kind of magical intuitional infrastructure/training pipeline.
 
We could share our lore for making sane undead.

That is in itself not valuable military technology, but if they do have the means of creating undead, it would help them utilize those.
 
It would also make them start to lean in the direction of developing their necromancy capabilities for advanced undead, since now there's some guarantee of the undead they create being reliable.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, and if we wanted them specifically to start utilizing what undead they currently have access to, that would be the way to do it.
 
they would look at you funny.
No, they would start screaming.

"Look at you funny" is the reaction someone who kills apocalypse-causing beasts for reagents in their own "I'LL SHOW THEM ALL!" projects might have.

The average mage, which is to say anyone not Companion Tier, would at best suffer an existential crisis. Or completely cease higher brain function for a spell as they flee in panic for the next continent over.
 
Whatever, then.
I don't feel like sharing lore for Sentient Undead is safe enough, and they won't find it of great use without Soulforging (which is a state secret) anyway.
And the Crafter's Pride alone is being super-cheap.
[X] Azel
 
Back
Top