I tried looking for a place to discuss the "hows" of writing. And I couldn't find a thread for it.
There was a pinned thread in this forum with two really interesting articles I agree with covering a lot of valuable things to look at when it comes to writing. I considered making some comments and putting some questions there. But the last post there was like a year old. So I figured it would be safer to make a new thread till I learned the norms around thread necromancy here more thoroughly.
This is the thread I read: So You Want To Be A Writer? Storybuilding
I know this message is a bit long. So feel free to skim it till you find a question or topic there interesting to you and then say something related. Or just putting a writing question you have here.
So, I am interested in many aspects and questions about writing
What are the main differences that come in writing for a quest versus a story is one?
In my experience doing quests on other sites. Quests tend to promote posting a second draft. Since generally editing to some extent is expected. But most editing is on the chapter level. So, the structural editing passes that generally require a certain amount of the story be written.
And I found in the past that quests were a great method for increasing my writing speed. Particular ones with multiple updates a day or a "Live" based structure. Since then I became focused on writing out the idea for the scene. And then doing an efficient but fast edit.
That eventually helped when it came to writing novellas and short stories. Since I trained myself to just write without worrying about editing. And then doing proper editing passes for quality. Which helped me avoid writers block. Or getting caught doing editing as I wrote and slowing down the words written per hour to a third or less.
However, to an extent not having as much larger scale editing naturally leads to a lower quality. Since votes make it harder to plan ahead. And makes it somewhere between being a GM and writing a story in another medium.
One thing I haven't see very often that could be interesting. Would be to structure a quest like you would a TV show. Having distinct "episodes"
in the story. Taking advantage of the serial nature of the format.
I also have some more general questions that I have thought about and I think would be interesting to discuss:
"Do you have any preferred scene or paragraph structures to use?"
The Simplest one that has worked well for me is to ask: "What is the most important thing I am trying to communicate with this?"
I decide that before writing the scene. Then I just write the scene keeping the goal in mind.
Then when I go to edit. I evaluate it by seeing how well it communicates that. And I also ask the question for each paragraph in the chapter. Or even looking at each sentence to see if it does it well. Which in the last case I find useful for finding run-on sentences. Or sentences that hardly say anything. Or are short but too ambiguous.
I guess to sum it up the approach would be to look at each element of the writing through the lens of "clarity".
Another one that has worked decently well is a simplification of the Hero's Journey translated to questions:
It is a more character focused approach. In many cases I may only try utilizing a couple since I find it has a enough questions to sometimes be a little unwieldy. (Usually the first 3). This also doesn't say as much to the smaller scale. Other than sort of structuring them by how they show an answer to one of the questions the scene is answering.
"What do the Actors in this scene want?"
"What do they do to get what they want?"
"What changes in this scene?" -How this moves the story closer to some form of resolution. Or shows a cost, delays resolution, and builds tension.
"How do the characters react to the changes?"
"Do the characters get what they want?" If yes to the small scale want then the story moves forward to the next small goal. If no, then the next scene is generally another approach to getting what the characters want. If yes to the big scale want, then the story has moved into the last act and is wrapping up.
Going back to the bigger questions:
"How can we make our theming stronger? Or use it to make the smaller scale aspects of our story more interesting?"
In the past, most of my stories have been focused on an experience rather than the themes. So, I tried to give the character's personalities with interesting chemistry, improve their character voices, and think about what sorts of scenes the story will utilize and how I will make those scenes engaging. (chill, funny, tense, scary, fast-paced, Immersive, combat, investigation, exploration, etc.) And maybe an outline of where it is generally headed. And I wrote them mostly for personal enjoyment.
But, recently it clicked to me that I could make a character and story with a lot more meaning. By looking at themes, opposing beliefs, and the way the characters transform and have their beliefs challenged.
So, for the first time. It feels like I have a story with a meaning and a purpose I have to share. Rather than a story I wrote because it seemed like a fun thing to write a story about.
The most obvious thing I can think of would be to try looking at every scene idea. And edit each scene from the framework of how it connects up with the core theme of the work. Which is a simple idea. But, the logistical "How" of that is a bit intimidating. I can think about scenes before I write them. And evaluate whether to write them and how to write them using the framework of the stories themes.
Which to an extent is almost like doing structural editing but before the chapters are even written? I am unsure if there are any more particular frameworks I could apply the basic ideas within or not.
I could also maybe try to connect it up with the scene level editing structure. By trying to use the connection to the theme. And how it either moves the story away from or towards resolving to the theme as a way of improving the way the elements within work.
For going lower, my best idea would be to just that the elements that come from the higher level analysis.
And use that to help determine what it "important" on a lower level. And the letting that cascade down when looking for how the lower levels can be improved.
There is also some of the issues that come up when trying to look at how scenes and chapters work in context. When you can't look forward very well for context. My intuition would be to mainly look at really macro level context and context within a chapter. Then to go back and look at chapter to chapter context when I go to do more detailed editing in preparation for self-publishing?
Does anyone have any insight into what it is like taking something originally written as a quest or serial fiction and adapting that into a published or self-published commercial work?
In addition, I also really like talking about flow and using style purposefully.
As well as things like typography.
I would also be up for talking about commonalities and lessons that can be taken across mediums when it comes to story telling.
Or metaphors between one sort of story-telling and another.
Like how in video editing. They carefully splice the video and the length of time spent on particular things and how you transition between them is important even within the same scene.
That is somewhat analogous to flow and pacing within a scene.
Just as you can have a long continuous shot that establishes an environment for a scene.
You can use description to do the same thing.
In some cases, it might use a shot with a lot of movement to both show a busy area and reveal some action taking place.
An Analogous example in text:
A small ant crawls on a table which contains a map of the Santiago Valley. A river runs down the middle and several tight passes cut through the mountains on either side. Marked with pointy squiggles for the peaks.
A man wearing a long coat points at a map.
"Blasted Henry lead his men right into an ambush." A man across from him wearing a feathered hat and military uniform says, before starting to move.
"General Carter, General Henry spotted it coming. But he is still penned down."
General Carter paused with a slight frown. Before throwing his hands up and walking away from his table to the right.
He weaved between tents that stretched out almost to the horizon. A blue and yellow flag floated in the wind.
"Sound the Trumpet! We Ride to relieve General Henry" He bellowed.
A young boy who had been leisurely sitting by the fire jumped to attention before digging out his trumpet and blowing a signal.
Another example:
A Hooded figure dashes on a rooftop in silhouette. The crescent moon dimly lighting up the buildings of a city.
Their Foot clatters softly on the red tiles.
But then, they leap across a gap.
Street Stalls lit up with little lights fly underneath her before she lands on another roof and ducks behind a chimney.
Potentially, some benefit could be found by looking at scenes in other media and breakind down what they are doing and "translating" that to the medium of writing. (Or some other medium.)
There was a pinned thread in this forum with two really interesting articles I agree with covering a lot of valuable things to look at when it comes to writing. I considered making some comments and putting some questions there. But the last post there was like a year old. So I figured it would be safer to make a new thread till I learned the norms around thread necromancy here more thoroughly.
This is the thread I read: So You Want To Be A Writer? Storybuilding
I know this message is a bit long. So feel free to skim it till you find a question or topic there interesting to you and then say something related. Or just putting a writing question you have here.
So, I am interested in many aspects and questions about writing
What are the main differences that come in writing for a quest versus a story is one?
In my experience doing quests on other sites. Quests tend to promote posting a second draft. Since generally editing to some extent is expected. But most editing is on the chapter level. So, the structural editing passes that generally require a certain amount of the story be written.
And I found in the past that quests were a great method for increasing my writing speed. Particular ones with multiple updates a day or a "Live" based structure. Since then I became focused on writing out the idea for the scene. And then doing an efficient but fast edit.
That eventually helped when it came to writing novellas and short stories. Since I trained myself to just write without worrying about editing. And then doing proper editing passes for quality. Which helped me avoid writers block. Or getting caught doing editing as I wrote and slowing down the words written per hour to a third or less.
However, to an extent not having as much larger scale editing naturally leads to a lower quality. Since votes make it harder to plan ahead. And makes it somewhere between being a GM and writing a story in another medium.
One thing I haven't see very often that could be interesting. Would be to structure a quest like you would a TV show. Having distinct "episodes"
in the story. Taking advantage of the serial nature of the format.
I also have some more general questions that I have thought about and I think would be interesting to discuss:
"Do you have any preferred scene or paragraph structures to use?"
The Simplest one that has worked well for me is to ask: "What is the most important thing I am trying to communicate with this?"
I decide that before writing the scene. Then I just write the scene keeping the goal in mind.
Then when I go to edit. I evaluate it by seeing how well it communicates that. And I also ask the question for each paragraph in the chapter. Or even looking at each sentence to see if it does it well. Which in the last case I find useful for finding run-on sentences. Or sentences that hardly say anything. Or are short but too ambiguous.
I guess to sum it up the approach would be to look at each element of the writing through the lens of "clarity".
Another one that has worked decently well is a simplification of the Hero's Journey translated to questions:
It is a more character focused approach. In many cases I may only try utilizing a couple since I find it has a enough questions to sometimes be a little unwieldy. (Usually the first 3). This also doesn't say as much to the smaller scale. Other than sort of structuring them by how they show an answer to one of the questions the scene is answering.
"What do the Actors in this scene want?"
"What do they do to get what they want?"
"What changes in this scene?" -How this moves the story closer to some form of resolution. Or shows a cost, delays resolution, and builds tension.
"How do the characters react to the changes?"
"Do the characters get what they want?" If yes to the small scale want then the story moves forward to the next small goal. If no, then the next scene is generally another approach to getting what the characters want. If yes to the big scale want, then the story has moved into the last act and is wrapping up.
Going back to the bigger questions:
"How can we make our theming stronger? Or use it to make the smaller scale aspects of our story more interesting?"
In the past, most of my stories have been focused on an experience rather than the themes. So, I tried to give the character's personalities with interesting chemistry, improve their character voices, and think about what sorts of scenes the story will utilize and how I will make those scenes engaging. (chill, funny, tense, scary, fast-paced, Immersive, combat, investigation, exploration, etc.) And maybe an outline of where it is generally headed. And I wrote them mostly for personal enjoyment.
But, recently it clicked to me that I could make a character and story with a lot more meaning. By looking at themes, opposing beliefs, and the way the characters transform and have their beliefs challenged.
So, for the first time. It feels like I have a story with a meaning and a purpose I have to share. Rather than a story I wrote because it seemed like a fun thing to write a story about.
The most obvious thing I can think of would be to try looking at every scene idea. And edit each scene from the framework of how it connects up with the core theme of the work. Which is a simple idea. But, the logistical "How" of that is a bit intimidating. I can think about scenes before I write them. And evaluate whether to write them and how to write them using the framework of the stories themes.
Which to an extent is almost like doing structural editing but before the chapters are even written? I am unsure if there are any more particular frameworks I could apply the basic ideas within or not.
I could also maybe try to connect it up with the scene level editing structure. By trying to use the connection to the theme. And how it either moves the story away from or towards resolving to the theme as a way of improving the way the elements within work.
For going lower, my best idea would be to just that the elements that come from the higher level analysis.
And use that to help determine what it "important" on a lower level. And the letting that cascade down when looking for how the lower levels can be improved.
There is also some of the issues that come up when trying to look at how scenes and chapters work in context. When you can't look forward very well for context. My intuition would be to mainly look at really macro level context and context within a chapter. Then to go back and look at chapter to chapter context when I go to do more detailed editing in preparation for self-publishing?
Does anyone have any insight into what it is like taking something originally written as a quest or serial fiction and adapting that into a published or self-published commercial work?
In addition, I also really like talking about flow and using style purposefully.
As well as things like typography.
I would also be up for talking about commonalities and lessons that can be taken across mediums when it comes to story telling.
Or metaphors between one sort of story-telling and another.
Like how in video editing. They carefully splice the video and the length of time spent on particular things and how you transition between them is important even within the same scene.
That is somewhat analogous to flow and pacing within a scene.
Just as you can have a long continuous shot that establishes an environment for a scene.
You can use description to do the same thing.
In some cases, it might use a shot with a lot of movement to both show a busy area and reveal some action taking place.
An Analogous example in text:
A small ant crawls on a table which contains a map of the Santiago Valley. A river runs down the middle and several tight passes cut through the mountains on either side. Marked with pointy squiggles for the peaks.
A man wearing a long coat points at a map.
"Blasted Henry lead his men right into an ambush." A man across from him wearing a feathered hat and military uniform says, before starting to move.
"General Carter, General Henry spotted it coming. But he is still penned down."
General Carter paused with a slight frown. Before throwing his hands up and walking away from his table to the right.
He weaved between tents that stretched out almost to the horizon. A blue and yellow flag floated in the wind.
"Sound the Trumpet! We Ride to relieve General Henry" He bellowed.
A young boy who had been leisurely sitting by the fire jumped to attention before digging out his trumpet and blowing a signal.
Another example:
A Hooded figure dashes on a rooftop in silhouette. The crescent moon dimly lighting up the buildings of a city.
Their Foot clatters softly on the red tiles.
But then, they leap across a gap.
Street Stalls lit up with little lights fly underneath her before she lands on another roof and ducks behind a chimney.
Potentially, some benefit could be found by looking at scenes in other media and breakind down what they are doing and "translating" that to the medium of writing. (Or some other medium.)
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