A Heretek on the Quest for Knowledge [40k] [Complete]
- Thread starter BurnNote
- Start date
- Location
- United States
[x]Same as so far, but better
Update 84: Epilogue
Update 84: Epilogue
[X]An outpost of sanity: You'll get them to sign over some planet in nowhere. The Undying is nice, but it just doesn't have the space for proper research or production facilities. Why go hunting for ancient junk, if you can probably come up with something better on your own? Eventually.
It takes nine years until the Undying is fully repaired. The imperial navy is always short on yard space, and a ship that won't be fighting for them isn't high on the list of priorities. Hell, it takes three years before repairs even begin. Arial says they were waiting to see if you'd crack and start on the repairs yourself, so they'd have to pay for less. As if.
It's not like you don't have enough to do anyway. You use the time to get start training up a cadre of techpriests. You're going to need staff, and the Navy dock yard has enough population that you can get some decent numbers. They're an embarrassment to any proper techpriest, but you and Arial (on a good day) will just have to suffer through it.
It takes thirty years until you have a stable cadre of sufficient numbers and insufficient incompetence that you don't have to look over their shoulder everyday. (Your test was to leave the torque-wrenches out before going to bed, and see how much exploded). You wish you could get Arial to do it, but then you'd have to 'mingle' and 'negotiate' and other terrible things. At least you can beat the stupid out of your dudes, even if it takes thirty years. As for Cerritos? It would be easier to just recycle them directly.
At that point, you are ready. Ready to fly around and sell dumb shit to dumb assholes spewing dumb bullshit. It's filthy, for all that you are doing the Imperium a favor. Too much money is bad for the human mind.
Establishing an independent outpost is expensive. The most barebone version would be easy, but it would also be a total waste. You have that much on your ship. Getting one that is self-sufficient, able to grow, defensible, and just in general with any kind of future? It's colonization in miniature. That's enough to give an Imperial Governor pause. The only reason it happens at all is that
A) You are a techpriest, and can make the most expensive things yourself.
B) You can open your eyes without seeing your own intestines.
It's a hundred before you have accrued the resources to set off, to found a world of your own.
In the end, all you've ever wanted is to follow the quest for knowledge.
[X]An outpost of sanity: You'll get them to sign over some planet in nowhere. The Undying is nice, but it just doesn't have the space for proper research or production facilities. Why go hunting for ancient junk, if you can probably come up with something better on your own? Eventually.
It takes nine years until the Undying is fully repaired. The imperial navy is always short on yard space, and a ship that won't be fighting for them isn't high on the list of priorities. Hell, it takes three years before repairs even begin. Arial says they were waiting to see if you'd crack and start on the repairs yourself, so they'd have to pay for less. As if.
It's not like you don't have enough to do anyway. You use the time to get start training up a cadre of techpriests. You're going to need staff, and the Navy dock yard has enough population that you can get some decent numbers. They're an embarrassment to any proper techpriest, but you and Arial (on a good day) will just have to suffer through it.
It takes thirty years until you have a stable cadre of sufficient numbers and insufficient incompetence that you don't have to look over their shoulder everyday. (Your test was to leave the torque-wrenches out before going to bed, and see how much exploded). You wish you could get Arial to do it, but then you'd have to 'mingle' and 'negotiate' and other terrible things. At least you can beat the stupid out of your dudes, even if it takes thirty years. As for Cerritos? It would be easier to just recycle them directly.
At that point, you are ready. Ready to fly around and sell dumb shit to dumb assholes spewing dumb bullshit. It's filthy, for all that you are doing the Imperium a favor. Too much money is bad for the human mind.
Establishing an independent outpost is expensive. The most barebone version would be easy, but it would also be a total waste. You have that much on your ship. Getting one that is self-sufficient, able to grow, defensible, and just in general with any kind of future? It's colonization in miniature. That's enough to give an Imperial Governor pause. The only reason it happens at all is that
A) You are a techpriest, and can make the most expensive things yourself.
B) You can open your eyes without seeing your own intestines.
It's a hundred before you have accrued the resources to set off, to found a world of your own.
In the end, all you've ever wanted is to follow the quest for knowledge.
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- Location
- Reno Nv
Good, we have our own planet. Now to prepare for the Kroks.
A look back
I have a few more words to say. First, I'd like to thank everybody who participated in discussion. I wanna give special thanks to @vsh for great feedback, great discussion and just generally being a great player. The quest would be less without you.
Sappiness aside, I also want to use this chance to look back at what worked and what didn't. And hopefully get your perspective on this.
The Good:
-Lychinus character. He is undeniably the star of the show. Not the most complex, though I have tried to give some nuance.
-The humor. That said, I have the feeling that it was getting rather repetetive towards the end. Still fairly happy on the whole.
-The crafting system. Sort of. I like the attribute table. The rest… needs refinement. I have some ideas, but I do think the fundamentals are solid enough to build on. And I do feel this kind of quest needs a way to express cool unique tech.
-Update rate. Ok, so that large break isn't exactly great. But I managed a constant rate throughout the rest, which frankly astonished me. I also learned how long an update takes, which is pretty useful information.
The Bad:
-Systems coherence: Ideally, the game system and the story support and improve each other. That didn't really happen here, mostly because I didn't have a clear idea what I wanted
-The Big Idea: This thing started when I thought 'Let's write a quest'. So the goal of the quest, on my side, was to play around with writing a quest. That's why the game system changed so often. This isn't a bad thing in principle, but if I had a clear idea what I wanted to accomplish for the audience, it would've been better. Related to that:
-The goal. For all that the hunt for the loot box was the nominal goal for most of the quest, I seemed to kinda slip into the background.
-???. You tell me.
The Undecided:
-All the other characters. I feel like Lychinus steals the show here, especially since his perspective makes colors everything. I've tried to give others some development but I'm not sure how well it worked. This is where I need your feedback.
-The plot. A lot of it was actually planned, and I did manage to tie things up rather nicely, if I say so myself (correct me on this. Seriously, if you think other wise, tell me). But I'm not sure how much of that came across.
-The perspective: The whole thing is written from the second person. I didn't think about it when I started, and then I was kinda stuck with it. I think it does help get into Lychinus head, but first person would do that too. Probably not going to do this again.
There's no doubt more things, but I can't think of any right now, and I don't want to delay the epilogue to long.
If you want my undying gratefulness, then please give me some feed back. Two things you liked and two things you disliked would be super helpful.
EDIT: I have received precious feedback. Thank you very much. I've what seems to be the recurring points below. That said, don't let that stop you from saying something. Even if you read this two years from now, go ahead an give it to me. I'll even go edit this post then, if need be.
Good:
-Characters. I was very happy to learn the other characters (Cerritos, Arial, Navi and Granma Techpriest) were well received. Probably the thing I spent the most effort on, so it's goo that it paid of.
-The underhive sequence. I admit, I did not enjoy it very much, but I suspect that's because of my mindset. I should've been more flexible as a GM.
The Bad:
-The techpriests/Skitarrii were kinda useless.
-The game systems. It wasn't all negative, but a recurring point. Yeah, hopefully that'll get better in the future
-There should've been a dedicated crafting option. Hell, I was even thinking about how to get people to craft more.
Sappiness aside, I also want to use this chance to look back at what worked and what didn't. And hopefully get your perspective on this.
The Good:
-Lychinus character. He is undeniably the star of the show. Not the most complex, though I have tried to give some nuance.
-The humor. That said, I have the feeling that it was getting rather repetetive towards the end. Still fairly happy on the whole.
-The crafting system. Sort of. I like the attribute table. The rest… needs refinement. I have some ideas, but I do think the fundamentals are solid enough to build on. And I do feel this kind of quest needs a way to express cool unique tech.
-Update rate. Ok, so that large break isn't exactly great. But I managed a constant rate throughout the rest, which frankly astonished me. I also learned how long an update takes, which is pretty useful information.
The Bad:
-Systems coherence: Ideally, the game system and the story support and improve each other. That didn't really happen here, mostly because I didn't have a clear idea what I wanted
-The Big Idea: This thing started when I thought 'Let's write a quest'. So the goal of the quest, on my side, was to play around with writing a quest. That's why the game system changed so often. This isn't a bad thing in principle, but if I had a clear idea what I wanted to accomplish for the audience, it would've been better. Related to that:
-The goal. For all that the hunt for the loot box was the nominal goal for most of the quest, I seemed to kinda slip into the background.
-???. You tell me.
The Undecided:
-All the other characters. I feel like Lychinus steals the show here, especially since his perspective makes colors everything. I've tried to give others some development but I'm not sure how well it worked. This is where I need your feedback.
-The plot. A lot of it was actually planned, and I did manage to tie things up rather nicely, if I say so myself (correct me on this. Seriously, if you think other wise, tell me). But I'm not sure how much of that came across.
-The perspective: The whole thing is written from the second person. I didn't think about it when I started, and then I was kinda stuck with it. I think it does help get into Lychinus head, but first person would do that too. Probably not going to do this again.
There's no doubt more things, but I can't think of any right now, and I don't want to delay the epilogue to long.
If you want my undying gratefulness, then please give me some feed back. Two things you liked and two things you disliked would be super helpful.
EDIT: I have received precious feedback. Thank you very much. I've what seems to be the recurring points below. That said, don't let that stop you from saying something. Even if you read this two years from now, go ahead an give it to me. I'll even go edit this post then, if need be.
Good:
-Characters. I was very happy to learn the other characters (Cerritos, Arial, Navi and Granma Techpriest) were well received. Probably the thing I spent the most effort on, so it's goo that it paid of.
-The underhive sequence. I admit, I did not enjoy it very much, but I suspect that's because of my mindset. I should've been more flexible as a GM.
The Bad:
-The techpriests/Skitarrii were kinda useless.
-The game systems. It wasn't all negative, but a recurring point. Yeah, hopefully that'll get better in the future
-There should've been a dedicated crafting option. Hell, I was even thinking about how to get people to craft more.
Spoilers, but I already know what the main plot for the next arc. The timeline works out very conveniently for that.
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ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
I really liked the voice of L and his very distinctive pov. While I did not do it often, it was fun to try to plan in his style and attitude.
It was fun, but also very 40k life is cheap. Things like taking a while to bother to notice Ariel was female was a good example.
I think it would have been nice to see more competent individuals, even if we did not treat them as such. It is not that they are common, but we are at the level that at least Inquisitor retinue level of skill folk should accumulate.
I'm sorry, but I guess I only have one bad to go with two goods for now...
It was fun, but also very 40k life is cheap. Things like taking a while to bother to notice Ariel was female was a good example.
I think it would have been nice to see more competent individuals, even if we did not treat them as such. It is not that they are common, but we are at the level that at least Inquisitor retinue level of skill folk should accumulate.
I'm sorry, but I guess I only have one bad to go with two goods for now...
- Location
- Reno Nv
@BurnNote, the quest we good, I liked the randomness and the ability for wacky inventions. It really hit how humanity could become if the Adeptus Mechanicus weren't afraid of innovation and shared their tech. The characters were good, though somewhat one damental compared to the MC, except Arial, he was a great companion who was a calm and semi-stability for Lychinus, Kind of like Rick and Morty. All in all the quest was spotty, but it was fun and enjoyable, keep up the goood work.
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
Are you going to be doing that here or starting a new thread?
A new thread. When that happens, I'll post the link here. If people are interested, I can also post a link to whatever I end up working on next.
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- Location
- Reno Nv
I'd like those links.
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Arial was well characterized, especially as she developed. The paranoid master was also fun.
I will note that part of your worries likely has to do with the MC not really caring about other people a lot, so we only got the glimpses of things he noticed.
- Location
- Asia
Arial is a girl ??!
Anyway I like the character and his quest for knowledge. It was interesting to see the various things he cooked up.
Training the underlings was exhausting, which I guess was the point.
Now I am not too sure about the last bit since it has been some time since I read this quest from the beginning but there were a couple of areas where it was hard to make out who was saying what.
I look forward to your new quest.
- Location
- Brazil
Lychinus is one of the best characters I've ever read and/or played.
Navi and Gene are great, Cerritos could have used a bit more depth.
I absolutely loved the Underhive part. Grinding the tech level from rusty spoon to self brain surgery was awesome.
The system itself could use a lot more refinement, it's very unbalanced, IMO. Probably the weakest part of the quest, maybe it's just me, but it feels very crude.
Navi and Gene are great, Cerritos could have used a bit more depth.
I absolutely loved the Underhive part. Grinding the tech level from rusty spoon to self brain surgery was awesome.
The system itself could use a lot more refinement, it's very unbalanced, IMO. Probably the weakest part of the quest, maybe it's just me, but it feels very crude.
Quote for the win!!
I also honestly felt bad for the two guards... lefty and righty.... we saw very little of them but their fatalistic deadpan would have clicked very well with dear Big Boss L.
Maybe you could have put some interludes in which you show the POV of other characters thus expanding their character without taking the attention away from the Main Char. Obviously also showing the some of the same interactions from their side.
jwolfe_beta
Semi Genre-Savvy Overlord
- Location
- Canada
And in the far far future when Cawl unpackages his 'miracle' Primaris marines, he and papa smurf get a very unpleasant surprise.
Turns out that Lychinus (and various subordinates) have created Skitarii forces that can kick said super-soldiers asses 9/10s of the time while being much more mass producible.
Turns out that Lychinus (and various subordinates) have created Skitarii forces that can kick said super-soldiers asses 9/10s of the time while being much more mass producible.
I enjoyed this quest a lot. The characters were unique, especially Lychinus, and the story was engaging. In hindsight the biggest issue for me was that for a Magos, we spent a mass amount of time training our lower peeps for... I'm not sure what. At the end they got three actions and could give a +5 to rolls. The crafting system was well fleshed out, but we made a grand total of three items I think? If you gave a dedicated craft action each turn with the potential to gain xp by crafting at the top of our abilities, it would give us more shinies to play with and give to people. Could even put in a teamwork option where Arial builds the skitarii and Lychinus creates the weapons, allowing us to get biologis xp, etc.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
I liked Lychinus a lot, just like everyone else. He was a real rarity among Quest protags, he had obvious terrible flaws to go with his competence, and he was fun to play as. Those turns where we made choices that were clearly bad ideas but so very in character were, to me, the best turns of the game. Thinking about why.... He had a strong narrator voice. He wasn't totally evil (helps with the sympathizing), but was cut free from some of the more normal social restrictions, which made him kind of gratifying to play. I can understand that the second person may have cost you as an author, and I respect not wanting to do that again, but I really think it helped here, and more than first-person would have. First person is a narrator talking to you in a close and personal way about his day. Second person makes it you doing those things yourself. Of course, if Lychinus hadn't been so viscerally satisfying to *be* in some ways, it wouldn't have had the same payoff (and would still have had the same cost).
The underhive "claw your way up the tech tree" bit was also pretty awesome. Honestly, I'd love to play a game that consisted of a Lychinus-like techpriest starting from crippled nothing and making his way up to a little underhive empire. That was not this game, obviously, but it would have been fun to play.
Cerritos was cool, for what we saw of him. He didn't get all that much face time, but given that he was in some ways "More Lychinus than Lychinus" I kind of feel like giving him *too* much depth would have almost detracted. Arial was also excellent. I think that both of them were improved by being seen through the Lychinus filter. I also rather enjoyed what we saw of that old grandmother-type archmagos... made better by the whooshing noises that we heard as her double entendres went straight over Lychinus's head.
I admit, I never really got into the crafting system. I feel like it was too in-depth in some ways - almost too complicated. I feel like something a bit more free-form might have worked better, possibly one based more on having random pet projects that we futzed with from time to time, slowly making them better, rather than pouring enormous amounts of focus into individual masterworks over short periods of time. Possibly something a bit chunkier.
The nobles in board just felt annoying, and I didn't particularly like dealing with the limpet. That whole "we'll tolerate this vaguely irritating thing indefinitely, because eventually we're sure to get some sort of payoff" that just kept dragging on... yeah, not so much.
For the battles... I liked the underhive fights, in much the same way as I liked the rest of the underhive stuff - because scavenging together effectiveness out of scrap and rubble is cool, and seeing it put to use was cool. The last battle was just a hilariously overpowered waltz through enemies who didn't know what hit them, and those are always entertaining (in moderation). The rest of them weren't particularly thrilling, though I'm not sure I could tell you why.
We put a decent amount of effort into our Skiitari and our techpriests and... it didn't seem to matter much in the end. I wouldn't say that techpriest training was a waste. I loved the narration on it (they were some very Lychinus moments). I just don't feel like we saw all that much in the way of payoff in the game itself - possibly because the battles didn't feel all that engaging, so things that fed into the battles didn't feel all that engaging.
The underhive "claw your way up the tech tree" bit was also pretty awesome. Honestly, I'd love to play a game that consisted of a Lychinus-like techpriest starting from crippled nothing and making his way up to a little underhive empire. That was not this game, obviously, but it would have been fun to play.
Cerritos was cool, for what we saw of him. He didn't get all that much face time, but given that he was in some ways "More Lychinus than Lychinus" I kind of feel like giving him *too* much depth would have almost detracted. Arial was also excellent. I think that both of them were improved by being seen through the Lychinus filter. I also rather enjoyed what we saw of that old grandmother-type archmagos... made better by the whooshing noises that we heard as her double entendres went straight over Lychinus's head.
I admit, I never really got into the crafting system. I feel like it was too in-depth in some ways - almost too complicated. I feel like something a bit more free-form might have worked better, possibly one based more on having random pet projects that we futzed with from time to time, slowly making them better, rather than pouring enormous amounts of focus into individual masterworks over short periods of time. Possibly something a bit chunkier.
The nobles in board just felt annoying, and I didn't particularly like dealing with the limpet. That whole "we'll tolerate this vaguely irritating thing indefinitely, because eventually we're sure to get some sort of payoff" that just kept dragging on... yeah, not so much.
For the battles... I liked the underhive fights, in much the same way as I liked the rest of the underhive stuff - because scavenging together effectiveness out of scrap and rubble is cool, and seeing it put to use was cool. The last battle was just a hilariously overpowered waltz through enemies who didn't know what hit them, and those are always entertaining (in moderation). The rest of them weren't particularly thrilling, though I'm not sure I could tell you why.
We put a decent amount of effort into our Skiitari and our techpriests and... it didn't seem to matter much in the end. I wouldn't say that techpriest training was a waste. I loved the narration on it (they were some very Lychinus moments). I just don't feel like we saw all that much in the way of payoff in the game itself - possibly because the battles didn't feel all that engaging, so things that fed into the battles didn't feel all that engaging.
I enjoyed the crafting system but felt it escalated a bit to quickly and maybe should have a had some harder caps for stats. The main character was interesting and really drives things and I feel the supporting characters were solid. The "economy" of being a minor magos could have been expressed in more depth but I also get that really ups the time it takes to get anything done. On the whole a really fun quest.
Definitely agree with you. I simply don't have the experience for system design, but I do think it's gotten better.
Good idea, will do.
That's one of those brilliant ideas that seem terribly obvious in hindsight, but I'm not sure I'd ever have gotten it on my one. Definitely happening.
I have been thinking about doing a spin-off quest where Lychinus gets dropped/reincarnated in Warhammer Fantasy. That would be a very similar experience.
Dwarf!Lychinus would lead to all sorts of hilarity. I mean, have you ever seen a bearded techpriest? neither has he.
Training the underlings was exhausting, which I guess was the point.
This is great. It's a failure I hadn't considered, but looking back I agree. I'd love to claim that was totally intentional ludonarrative resonance, but no. I think part of the reason is that the original plan was longer running, and so the investment would have a longer timeframe to pay off. Several upgrades were also locked behind thechpriest level, but we never got to those. Still, that's my fault. I'm going to add this point to the Bad list. Thank you for bringing it up.
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- Location
- Danmark
i would love that
Just put in as legacy bonus in the next installment. The dudes still needs training up to be less bad.
I really laughed at the description for the different training and equipment levels. The names were so Lychinus.
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