Jacob not training the Mind Arts doesn't mean that he will conveniently manage to not encounter people or creatures that will use them on him. It's shoring up a weakness that has been exploited a couple times through the quest. Ignoring the problem just continues to leave him vulnerable.

And there are months left of the term to continue learning spells. It's not like it is the final month.
Yeah, but the mechanics of this quest makes it so the bonus we get is abysmal until we reach level 11...

Before that upgrading occlumency in one point increases our bonus from 8 to 9, which is a difference so marginal that it won't really matter wether we do it or not...

Whereas the spells give us significantly better bonus or alternative ways of tackling some issues.
 
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Another aspect is that it's training both occlumency, as well as legilimency. The latter may unlock new opportunities itself, and it'd be good to gradually get better at this aspect over time too.
 
Adhoc vote count started by ShyGuy on Jan 1, 2023 at 2:34 PM, finished with 107 posts and 28 votes.

  • [x] Plan Slow Down, Train, and take a Case, but with Alchemy
    -[x] Case IV: The girl that is two (2 Actions) - There's a strange mystery at Hogwarts. There are basic laws that are ultimate. If you throw something up, it falls down. Magic changes these ultimate laws, into mere guidelines, to be stepped around whenever needed. If you are in one place, you can not be in another place at the same time. But somehow, there is a girl that seems to not abide by this specific law. How is this possible? You are determined to figure out the truth, even if it means delving into the dark corners of the castle and risking not eating lunch to uncover the mystery of the girl who is two.
    -[x] Runes Club Research x 2
    -[x] Random Encounter – Just… Go and live your life. You don't need to plan everything in your life out.
    -[x] Write a Letter (Free Action) – To Nicolas Flamel tell him about Mermaid's Breath and ask for any insight or advice he has in regards to the Soul-Snatcher. Also write a letter to our parents telling them about the misadventures we seem to be having at school, though try not to worry them overly much either.
    -[x]x7 personal actions.
    -[x] Legilimency & Occlumency x1
    -[x] Alchemy x2
    -[x] Train Constitution x1
    -[x] Learning x 3 (Protego (Deep Understanding), Shrinking Solution (Needed for exams at the end of the year), Lumos (Deep Understanding), Point Me, Antidote to Uncommon Poisons (Needed for exams at the end of the year), Tempus)
    [X] Plan: Working on the Basics for the Future
    -[x] Case IV: The girl that is two (2 Actions) - There's a strange mystery at Hogwarts. There are basic laws that are ultimate. If you throw something up, it falls down. Magic changes these ultimate laws, into mere guidelines, to be stepped around whenever needed. If you are in one place, you can not be in another place at the same time. But somehow, there is a girl that seems to not abide by this specific law. How is this possible? You are determined to figure out the truth, even if it means delving into the dark corners of the castle and risking not eating lunch to uncover the mystery of the girl who is two.
    -[X] Runes Club Research (Progress 7/10. Multiple Actions on this count as multiple rolls stacking) – Spend time with the Members of the Runes Club looking for hidden runes and glyphs in the castle walls (Will also count as a training roll towards Ancient Runes)x2
    -[x] Random Encounter – Just… Go and live your life. You don't need to plan everything in your life out.
    -[X] Write a Letter (Free Action) – Specify to whom it is that you want to write and what you want to talk about
    --[X] Write to Nicolas Flammel and tell him about Mermaid's Breath, and ask him about alchemical items capable of protecting one´s mind.
    - [X] Train, Learn, Achieve - Alchemy x2
    - [X] Train, Learn, Achieve - Stamina
    - [X] Do your research – (Shrinking Solution, Antidote to Uncommon Poisons, Pocion Vital)x2
    - [X] Do your research – (Protego (Deep Understanding), Diffindo, Incendio (Deep Understanding))x2
    [x] Plan Slow Down, Train, and take a Case
    -[x] Case IV: The girl that is two (2 Actions) - There's a strange mystery at Hogwarts. There are basic laws that are ultimate. If you throw something up, it falls down. Magic changes these ultimate laws, into mere guidelines, to be stepped around whenever needed. If you are in one place, you can not be in another place at the same time. But somehow, there is a girl that seems to not abide by this specific law. How is this possible? You are determined to figure out the truth, even if it means delving into the dark corners of the castle and risking not eating lunch to uncover the mystery of the girl who is two.
    -[x] Runes Club Research x 2
    -[x] Random Encounter – Just… Go and live your life. You don't need to plan everything in your life out.
    -[x] Write a Letter (Free Action) – To Nicolas Flamel (telling him about our newest creation in regards to exploring the Lake and our encounter with the soul-snatcher and if he has any insights onto what the effects of the encounter might be and how to hunt such a thing. Also write a letter to our parents telling them about the misadventures we seem to be having at school, though try not to worry them overly much either.
    -[x]x7 personal actions.
    -[x] Understanding of Magical Creatures x2
    -[x] Legilimency & Occlumency x2
    -[x] Learning x 3 (Protego (Deep Understanding), Shrinking Solution (Needed for exams at the end of the year), Lumos (Deep Understanding), Point Me, Antidote to Uncommon Poisons (Needed for exams at the end of the year), Tempus)
    [X] Plan: Get the basics done first
    -[x] Case IV: The girl that is two (2 Actions) - There's a strange mystery at Hogwarts. There are basic laws that are ultimate. If you throw something up, it falls down. Magic changes these ultimate laws, into mere guidelines, to be stepped around whenever needed. If you are in one place, you can not be in another place at the same time. But somehow, there is a girl that seems to not abide by this specific law. How is this possible? You are determined to figure out the truth, even if it means delving into the dark corners of the castle and risking not eating lunch to uncover the mystery of the girl who is two.
    -[X] Runes Club Research (Progress 7/10. Multiple Actions on this count as multiple rolls stacking) – Spend time with the Members of the Runes Club looking for hidden runes and glyphs in the castle walls (Will also count as a training roll towards Ancient Runes)x2
    -[x] Random Encounter – Just… Go and live your life. You don't need to plan everything in your life out.
    -[X] Write a Letter (Free Action) – Specify to whom it is that you want to write and what you want to talk about
    --[X] Write to Nicolas Flammel and tell him about Mermaid's Breath, and ask him about alchemical items capable of protecting one´s mind.
    - [X] Train, Learn, Achieve - Alchemy x2
    - [X] Do your research – (Shrinking Solution, Antidote to Uncommon Poisons)x2
    - [X] Do your research – (Protego (Deep Understanding), Diffindo, Incendio (Deep Understanding))x3
    [X]Plan Decompress and Train
    -[X] Case IV: The girl that is two (2 Actions)
    -[X] Random Encounter
    -[x] Runes Club Research x 2
    -[X] Write a Letter (Free Action) – Specify to whom it is that you want to write and what you want to talk about
    --[X] Write to Nicolas Flammel and tell him about Mermaid's Breath, and ask him about alchemical items capable of protecting one´s mind.
    -[X] Train, Learn, Achieve
    --[X] Legilimency & Occlumency x2
    --[X] Understanding of Magical Creatures
    --[X] Constitution
    --[X] Shrinking Solution (Needed for exams at the end of the year)
    --[X] Protego (Deep Understanding) x2
 
Most of the reason the DC for dealing with the Soul-Snatcher was likely so high probably has to do with the fact that Jacob's Mind Arts ability was pretty bad as well as the fact that he didn't expect to face such a monster. If Jacob raises his ability in regards to the Mind Arts it not only increases his modifier it also likely lowers the DC for the next encounter with the creature. Never mind the fact that he will be expecting an attack, I think it is a reasonable assumption that the next time the two meet the DC will be lower. Nevermind the fact that Jacob may even come up with an Alchemy idea to help him resist the creature.

I don't believe there is any evidence from this quest that suggests that the DC of something is affected by the skill level of Jacob. If that were so, the DC of research would have lowered across the board as we raised his skills.

The fact that Jacob might get an Alchemy idea in the future strengthens my argument that we should be shooting for late next year rather than as soon as possible for a rematch.

In regards to training Constitution I think we should do that, but we have time and can work on that next month. We just got a level up so we have a decent buffer before we have to worry about the cap. Training Charms, DADA, and Transfiguration sound good on paper, but I also don't want to just spend time training classes Jacob is already really good at when there are other major holes in Jacob's skillset (Mind Arts, Understanding Creatures, Alchemy, as well as some necessary spells/potions needed for school exams, exploration, and dueling). Honestly, right now we are in a good spot in regards to classes. The only subjects we actually really need to focus on right now are the Mind Arts, Alchemy, and Understanding Creatures. Everything other class can actually ride for a couple months before we need to reassess what Jacob needs. Our ability in Charms, DADA, and Transfiguration is actually pretty amazing for Jacob's age.

In regards to the skill wall, that is sort of already being taken care of. Jacob actually working on other subjects outside his Classes alleviates the issue. Him learning more about the Mind Arts, Dark Arts, Alchemy, Creatures, etc is sort of already indirectly dealing with the potential problem. It is only when we have start to have skills close in on E- that we need to start paying more attention to the issue. Also, in regards to the skill wall, training Charms, Transfiguration, and DADA might exacerbate the issue because it is causing our already high skills to pull further ahead of Jacob's ability in other subjects.

Ignoring the constitution part, since we both are in agreement, I understand the thought of shoring up weaknesses. It's a fine idea in many situations. But before then, it might be a better use of time to maximize our abilities in a focused area that is often used. Such as Charms, DADA, and Transfigurations.

Looking at the way the mechanics of the quest work, it appears that the most efficient way to go about training is a heavy focus on a few areas until reaching the end of the skills group (0-5, 5-10, etc.) and then shifting to another area to heavily focus. Which nicely supports Jacob's characterization and also makes use of the Ravenclaw bonus we get. And also helps us with the skill wall.

The skill wall has the highest climb right now, where if we have DADA at A+ by the end of the year (which we really do want given the bonus to all DADA research and the duel competition), we would need to have 4 other skills at A+ by the mid-point of year 4. Which sounds like a lot of time, but it isn't since we will also be researching new spells, new potions, and also probably Alchemy and Attributes. Assuming 6 Personal actions per semester turn, that is around 42 personal actions.

Assuming we go with our highest skills, we have Charms (6), Transfiguration (6), Potions (6), and Ancient Runes (7) [Ancient Runes might level up 2 this turn- for calculation I'll assume it will]. Even assuming an ideal no failures, that is 13 Personal Actions just to get a smooth skill wall. With failures, that goes up. Which leaves us with lots of personal actions, yes...but we can probably assume approx. half (21) of the Personal Actions will go to Spell/Potion research (looking at all past passed plans). Leaving us with just 9 personal free actions. Again, assuming no failed rolls.

And, it would be better to get as many at A+ before the end of this semester for the research rolls next semester. So, it would be better to shift the training on DADA, Charms, and Transfigurations up front to the next two months (which is 9 actions out of 12/13 Personal Actions). That is one reason why getting the required Potions/Protego done this turn would be really helpful- we don't have much wiggle room before the Ravenclaw Bonus.

All this to say that the skill wall is deceptively easy and that we don't have as much wiggle room this semester and the upcoming semester if we don't want to run right into it.


 
I get the idea of trying to optimize Jacob's skills as much as possible, but tbh I want to read a story about Jacob exploring the mysteries of Hogwarts and doing cool magic stuff, fighting monsters, figuring out mysteries, and making friends. So spending the next few months left in the term attempting to get 3 skills (Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions) that are already pretty good up to A+ (4 actions for each one assuming everything goes well) doesn't sound very appealing, especially when Jacob has many in-story reasons to focus on his weak areas like the Mind Arts and Understanding Creatures.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me personally story > mechanics. If it makes sense to train those subjects then I think we should do it, as long as doing so doesn't put a hold on Jacob's life and prevent him from actually enjoying it.
 
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I get the idea of trying to optimize Jacob's skills as much as possible, but tbh I want to read a story about Jacob exploring the mysteries of Hogwarts and doing cool magic stuff, fighting monsters, figuring out mysteries, and making friends. So spending the next few months left in the term attempting to get 3 skills (Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions) that are already pretty good up to A+ (4 actions for each one assuming everything goes well) doesn't sound very appealing, especially when Jacob has many in-story reasons to focus on his weak areas like the Mind Arts and Understanding Creatures.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me personally story > mechanics. If it makes sense to train those subjects then I think we should do it, as long as doing so doesn't put a hold on Jacob's life and prevent him from actually enjoying it.
While I agree that a compelling history is much more important to me than min-maxing for maximum effectiveness I think that it makes more sense to focus our monthly training on one or two skills/attributes at most and try to make a substantial advance on them instead of grasping to many things at the same time, not only because it is much more effective that way of training since it allows us to unlock new and interesting options much sooner by being more focused on reaching the appropriate skill thresholds but also because it fits Jacob's Personality to a T.
 
While I agree that a compelling history is much more important to me than min-maxing for maximum effectiveness I think that it makes more sense to focus our monthly training on one or two skills/attributes at most and try to make a substantial advance on them instead of grasping to many things at the same time, not only because it is much more effective that way of training since it allows us to unlock new and interesting options much sooner by being more focused on reaching the appropriate skill thresholds but also because it fits Jacob's Personality to a T.
I don't disagree. It's why I voted for a heavy focus on Alchemy this turn, because it unlocks for Jacob the ability to progress with making a Map. It's also why I think we should focus on Creatures and the Mind Arts the next couple turns, because doing so unlocks more actions and makes exploration easier. I didn't just pick a subject at random, there are actual reasons to study them.

Edit: And again, I'm not saying I'm against training the subjects, just that right now I don't see how we can fit all that stuff in the coming months when there are spells that should be learned, other subjects that also need to be worked on, and other projects that I'm sure will pop up in the future. If it can be done then great. I'm just not sure the that it can be with everything already on Jacob's plate.
 
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I don't disagree. It's why I voted for a heavy focus on Alchemy this turn, because it unlocks for Jacob the ability to progress with making a Map. It's also why I think we should focus on Creatures and the Mind Arts the next couple turns, because doing so unlocks more actions and makes exploration easier. I didn't just pick a subject at random, there are actual reasons to study them.

Edit: And again, I'm not saying I'm against training the subjects, just that right now I don't see how we can fit all that stuff in the coming months when there are spells that should be learned, other subjects that also need to be worked on, and other projects that I'm sure will pop up in the future. If it can be done then great. I'm just not sure the that it can be with everything already on Jacob's plate.
While I don´t disagree that there are good reasons to study Creatures and the Mind Artson´t think that this is the optimal facing this turn

As I said before I think we would get a much better result this turn if, instead of using that point to get level up Occlumency, we used that action to make sure that we get the mandatory potions and the Protego are finished this turn, that totally frees the Personal Actions in the next months and allow us to, for example, pour 4 actions int Occlumency the next turn to unlock the next step on the Basques Journal, or put enough points into Alchemy to complete the Ghost googles the during June and see what a dementor truly looks like (besides giving us several EXTREMELY useful abilities for exploration and combat)
 
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As I said before I think we would get a much better result this turn if, instead of using that point to get level up Occlumency, we used that action to make sure that we get the mandatory potions and the Protego are finished this turn, that totally frees the Personal Actions in the next months and allow us to, for example, pour 4 actions int Occlumency the next turn to unlock the next step on the Basques Journal, or put enough points into Alchemy to complete the Ghost googles the during June and see what a dementor truly looks like (besides giving us several EXTREMELY useful abilities for exploration and combat)
There is a reason people aren't doing that (or at least why I chose not to do that). Pouring 4 actions into one subject during one turn is essentially condensing over a years worth of study into a single month. Jacob is a prodigy no doubt, but I'm fairly certain that would prompt a sanity check of some sort.

Edit: At least that has been my reason for avoiding putting more than 2 study actions on a single subject during a turn. It just didn't seem like a good idea to tempt fate like that. Especially when Personal Actions are already stressful enough for Jacob without a way to decompress.

As for the spells, my plan does have Protego and one of the mandatory potions as the main priorities, though I did leave the other one a little further down the list tbf.
 
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I think after having a mind attack him focusing on the mental arts isn't out of the realm of possibility story-wise. Same with his constitution. He was too slow back when he was chasing after Sally-Anne too. So I can see his reaction to this being he needs to improve.
 
There is a reason people aren't doing that. Pouring 4 actions into one subject during one turn is essentially condensing over a years worth of study into a single month. Jacob is a prodigy no doubt, but I'm fairly certain that would prompt a sanity check of some sort.

Edit: At least that has been my reason for avoiding putting more than 2 study actions on a single subject during a turn. It just didn't seem like a good idea to tempt fate like that. Especially when Personal Actions are already stressful enough for Jacob without a way to decompress.

As for the spells, my plan does have Protego and one of the mandatory potions as the main priorities, though I did leave the other one a little further down the list tbf.
I think that you are wrong, the problem we had with Jacob, when we almost had burnout a few months ago was because we went min-maxing DADA and spells and we did not take any exploration or mystery actions...

The problem was not going too deep into training one thing, but that we did not let him have his adventures...

But just in case @Tabula Rasa can you confirm that applying most personal actions in one single thing was not a problem that almost caused burnout, but the problem was not to give Jacob any mystery or exploring to do?
 
I get the idea of trying to optimize Jacob's skills as much as possible, but tbh I want to read a story about Jacob exploring the mysteries of Hogwarts and doing cool magic stuff, fighting monsters, figuring out mysteries, and making friends. So spending the next few months left in the term attempting to get 3 skills (Charms, Transfiguration, and Potions) that are already pretty good up to A+ (4 actions for each one assuming everything goes well) doesn't sound very appealing, especially when Jacob has many in-story reasons to focus on his weak areas like the Mind Arts and Understanding Creatures.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for me personally story > mechanics. If it makes sense to train those subjects then I think we should do it, as long as doing so doesn't put a hold on Jacob's life and prevent him from actually enjoying it.

I understand your point in preferring story over min/maxing, but in Jacob's case I don't see there being an either/or when it comes to optimizing and his story. My assumptions were that we would use 6 personal actions per turn (which has been what we have had Jacob done at the least) and the classes I would focus on are the very ones that Jacob has had the most interest in and the ones we, as questers, decided that Jacob would be most interested in. Meaning that we would be spending 8 normal actions per turn questing or other story actions. And, I would be in favor in questing to the Forbidden Forest next turn if we get Protego (Deep Understanding).

But, character and story wise, upping Charms/Transfigurations/DADA is both well within character (he is a bit of a Newt Scamander in his focus) and optimal for growth. Focusing on these subject is not curtailing Jacob's life but actually will help him and the story. First, there is the immediate goal of winning the Dueling competition, but there are also the goals of researching the spells/potions needed for him to pass his classes and to go on adventures, and when he is on adventures the most common actions he does is...Charms, Transfigurations, and DADA. It isn't just enough to be able to go to the adventure, after all, but to excel at them.

I agree that Jacob also has reason to study Occulmancy and Understanding Magical Creatures. But, I'd argue that Jacob has a greater interest in the three topics. Though I'd agree that Occulmancy is something he might probably formed an interest in- but not obsessively so given him not even trying to trick Dumbledore in the most recent post (yes, we failed the check, but in-story Jacob was fine opening up to Dumbledore).

If we want to have more adventures over the year (versus beelining to one specific adventure or two), it is better to get the key skills that Jacob already is obsessed with up to A+ this year. Then use any Personal Actions saved by the better bonus to prep for all future adventures. Not saying the Occulmancy isn't something that we should do.

My point is that there is a current short-term goal that is available and doable within the next few months that has long-term benefits (getting Charms, Transfigurations, and DADA up) and that we shouldn't ignore it in favor of working on what could be a short/medium-term goal (adventuring to the sea). And, with the short-term goal done, the results of our adventures might actually improve.

There is a reason people aren't doing that. Pouring 4 actions into one subject during one turn is essentially pushing over a years worth of study into a single month. Jacob is a prodigy no doubt, but I'm fairly certain that would prompt a sanity check of some sort.

I won't speculate as to what the QM would do. But, we don't need to put 4 subjects into 1 turn. If we start next turn, we could do 2 actions for 2 subjects per turn and 1 action for DADA for 1 turn. With the +20 to training rolls, the DC for DADA, Charms, and Transfiguration is DC 5 so there is a pretty good probability of succeeding.

As for the spells, my plan does have Protego and one of the mandatory potions as the main priorities so, though I did leave the other one a little further down the list tbf.

Well, I think the issue is the amount of actions you're putting in and the DC of the research and the order. Protego (Deep Understanding) is DC 150.

With DADA +9, Intellect +7, Creativity +5, the bonus is +21. With an average roll of 50, that is an average +71 per action. Which means there is a pretty good chance it would take all 3 actions to get it. (Note that with a DADA of E-, it would be a +27, which would be an average of +77 and a pretty good chance it would only take 2 actions to get and thus saving us 1 personal action).

The remaining Potions are a DC 28 and DC 100. And the DC 100 is the fourth on the list. So, if we roll well, we would still have a DC 100 potion research remaining. Even if we rolled improbably well. And with less time, we may overcommit to get the DC 100 potion done in time.
 
Well, I don't have a crystal ball or anything. Lets take every month as they come. We seem to be getting a bit into the weeds for May's turn when we haven't even started April yet. We will probably have a better idea of what plans to make as it comes closer.

Well, I think the issue is the amount of actions you're putting in and the DC of the research and the order. Protego (Deep Understanding) is DC 150.
This I don't understand though. People seemed to want Protego done as the main priority. So I put it first. If people want me to change it this late in the game then I could do that. People have to let me know though. I'm willing to put all the mandatory potions in front of everything else if they want me to.
 
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This I don't understand either. People seemed to want Protego done as the main priority. So I put it first. If people want me to change it this late in the game then I'm all for that.
I think that It would be better to add another action so that we have a decent chance of finishing both potions this turn (4 actions have a decent chance of finishing everything this turn)... But if that is not possible I would support giving priority to the potions to free the rest of this year's PA...
 
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This I don't understand though. People seemed to want Protego done as the main priority. So I put it first. If people want me to change it this late in the game then I could do that. People have to let me know though. I'm willing to put all the mandatory potions in front of everything else if they want me to.

Honestly, I thought your approach of going for doing the spell and potions training on one action line was elegant.

My main issue was that the mandatory potions were not 2nd and 3rd (rather they were 2nd and 4th) and thus even with an improbably good roll the DC 100 potion would not be touched (important since we might want to know what the DC of a mandatory roll is and have an opportunity to try and lowball that mandatory roll).

A 4th action would be lovely, of course, to make it at least possible to finish everything up. But, my thought is if we are going adventuring next turn in the forest: protego is more important than a potential inefficiency.
 
I think after having a mind attack him focusing on the mental arts isn't out of the realm of possibility story-wise. Same with his constitution. He was too slow back when he was chasing after Sally-Anne too. So I can see his reaction to this being he needs to improve.

Mechanically and narratively, mental stress has been shown to affect Jacob before.
By how the quest has gone so far, there isn't a reason why physical stress wouldn't either.

We have also gotten some narrative lampshades about Jacob's poor constitution (his mother worrying about him getting sick is the first I remember off the top of my head)

Additionally Jacob had been getting into more physically intensive exploration.

So training constitution makes sense both in character and out of character to me.

(The little voices in his head (aka questers) have been talking about training constitution for a while now)

It's what I based my vote this turn on.
 
My main issue was that the mandatory potions were not 2nd and 3rd (rather they were 2nd and 4th) and thus even with an improbably good roll the DC 100 potion would not be touched (important since we might want to know what the DC of a mandatory roll is and have an opportunity to try and lowball that mandatory roll).
Thanks for the input. I'll probably switch those around a bit the first chance I get.
 
I answered it in the past. The Game Mechanics were created before you decided on which character to play. So, some parts of them are maybe not the most intuitive now that Jacob is a fully fledged out person. Core Skills were defined as 'Skills that you need to stay alive.' Simple as that.
gotcha, I vaguely remember you mentioning that, maybe working on flying could be a fun past time for Jacob.
Maybe one day we'll out fly a dragon of our own.

The image just fits so well with the appearance in the character sheet
 
I wonder if we could find a way to put our name in the goblet when the time comes.
Giving everyone an aneurysm because of our hijinks sounds hilarious.

I'm also curious about how our nerd ability stacks up against hermiones, I want Jacob to be establised as the Top Nerd.
 
Jacob's father agrees with the yellow statements. He is very happy about the ghosts sitting inside Jacob's mind.

...

Are we the souls that were caught in the Flammels' soul trap and formed as a basis for Jacob?

If so...really puts the entire discussion about the morality of the act in an interesting light.

And an interesting twist to incorporating thread discussion.
 
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