A Light from the Shadow (Tolkien CKII)

The Valar sin is actually pretty simple and exactly what they rightly Féanor for. They hoarded Light and did not use it for the benefit of the world at large. I would also add Turgon's fault: They loved too much the works of their hearts and hands and refused to leave them.

When Melkor destroyed the Lamps, their solution was to build their fortified paradise rather than fight him (Tulkas was already there so they could have won). When the Elves awoke, rather than leaving their fortified havens and dwelling among them, they found more convenient to lead them to Valinor, forsaking those who refused to the tender mercies of Sauron.

And what was the results of that? When Men awoke rather than finding elves to teach them, they found Morgoth, who was the only Valar present on mortal Arda.

Even after the Murder of the Trees, their solution was to fortify further rather than sally out. Whatever the Noldor had done, abandonning them and the Sindar who had done nothing in this mess to fight the most powerful being to have ever walked incarnate in Arda was a dick move.

These are my feelings as well. Now, we know that several Valar individually, namely Ulmo, love men as much as elves, but as a group their actions time and again show they that they care for elves more. Morgoth is the only one, if we momentarily count him in the same sphere as the Valar, who kept an eye out for man and so important was their awakening that he left Sauron in charge and went to them himself. The Valar never bothered.
 
I wonder if this is why Melian came over to Middle Earth instead of staying in Valinor. Sure it turned out horribly in the end, but for a while things were pretty great in Beleriand.

She fell in love with Elwe first king of the Teleri and for centuries they gazed upon each other enraptured and enspelled while the stars wheeled above. The Teleri tried to find their king but they could not so some stayed behind and some went into the Farthest West. When Elwe and Melian finally awoke from their trance they were wed and came to rule those who tarried as king and Queen of Doriath, the Hidden Kingdom.

There are significant parallels between Melian's story and that of her daughter Luthein.
 
She fell in love with Elwe first king of the Teleri and for centuries they gazed upon each other enraptured and enspelled while the stars wheeled above. The Teleri tried to find their king but they could not so some stayed behind and some went into the Farthest West. When Elwe and Melian finally awoke from their trance they were wed and came to rule those who tarried as king and Queen of Doriath, the Hidden Kingdom.

There are significant parallels between Melian's story and that of her daughter Luthein.
I know the story, but one wonders why she came to Middle Earth to begin with, let alone broke off from everyone else even remotely involved with Tor Eressea long enough to run across the man in the woods. Considering that the Sindar spent centuries looking for and failing to find the guy before Melian was a thing, or any hint of magic used to hide the two after she did enter the picture, if any, one assumes she didn't go in there specifically looking for Elwe. I know she could have just done it on a whim, but as theories go, it is far from the weakest I've ever seen.
 
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I know the story, but one wonders why she came to Middle Earth to begin with, let alone broke off from everyone else even remotely involved with Tor Eressea long enough to run across the man in the woods. Considering that the Sindar spent centuries looking for and failing to find the guy before Melian was a thing, or any hint of magic used to hide the two after she did enter the picture, if any, one assumes she didn't go in there specifically looking for Elwe. I know she could have just done it on a whim, but as theories go, it is far from the weakest I've ever seen.

Perhaps she had gone to Middle Earth out of care for the sleeping lands in the East, the beasts and the trees. I seam to recall her being one of Yavanna's entourage of maiar.
 
Valar Choice
So let's get this out of the way. Which Valar will intervene to save Morianor of such pain the Three, the Elessar and the Voice of Saruman were only able to put him to sleep?

[] Nienna to take the pain unto herself
[] Aulë to give you the resistance of stone
[] Estë to heal you from your wounds
[] Irmo to soothe your mind
[] Namo to fortify your spirit
[] Vairë to celebrate the birth of a new unlooked thing
[] Oromë to expunge the pain from you
[] Varda to make you pure
[] Manwë to lift you up
[] Ulmo to drown your sorrow
[] Yavanna to make you grow
[] Vana to make your pain the seed of new thing
[] Nessa to turn it into instinct
[] Tulkas to fight it
Adhoc vote count started by ganonso on Nov 25, 2017 at 12:09 PM, finished with 1635 posts and 16 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by ganonso on Nov 25, 2017 at 3:50 PM, finished with 421 posts and 72 votes.

  • [x] Fight the Discord song to song
    [X] You long for the certainty you felt at Morgoth's side. In Angband His word was law and he didn't leave even his most powerful servants much room to rebel or to move. There were no conflict, no uncertainty, no fear. He commanded and you obeyed. Now even Nienna's mandate leaves you much choices and you confess you are afraid.
    [X] Vairë to celebrate the birth of a new unlooked thing
    [x] Memory
    [X] To be in the presence of Melkor, was to know wisdom. Of all the Aïnur he seemed the most wise, always rushing to answer the questions of the Allfather, always eager to teach what he knew, to share what he thought. When he made the Discord, you didn't think of evil but you simply followed the teacher you chose. If he decided to go against Eru's overt design, there must have been a reason, some secret plan you weren't privy off. You followed him on Arda for you believed in his wisdom and he shared with you many things on the working on the world, even secrets taken from the Void during his lonely errands.
    [x] Take the burden of the pain into your being
    [X] Braca
    [x] Unknown
    [X] Vana to make your pain the seed of new thing
    [X] You still love and admire him. Not what he became but what he was, what he could still be. Eru created him as the most powerful of the Ainur and gave him the greater part of all energies. Even wounded and marred, having forsook the power he was given to embrace another, he still commands part of your respect. He could be great again, if only he could simply bow and accept other will than his exist and matter.
    [X] You hate yourself for being so easily misled. Melkor was ever the liar you see that now, he lied even to himself. Yet you followed him willingly, ensnared by his promises, dazzled by his radiance. You thought you were being good, perhaps even that you still served Eru's great purpose and were still on the side of the Father's. Perhaps you thought Melkor being a reflection of his thoughts meant your acts were condoned. You spread the lies of Melkor through your actions and your commands, leading at least some souls in the service of the Shadow.
    [x] The reintroduction of the Men of Dunland into the wider stage, and a clear defining of their territories for future diplomatic purposes.
    [X] Hassan
    [x] Seeking new paths
    [x] See the bigger picture
    [x] The 'Evil' that Hassan claims has risen in the south. Anything involving the Black Numenorean bears discussion.
    [X] Love, it was love. How could you not love Him? He was, even before the world was the most sublime of all Eru's creation, endowed with all powers and all majesty. He was power and wisdom true but it paled with the chance to simply be with Him, at His sides as he shaped the world to make it a mirror of his beauty. You loved Him and you love what He made, the ice falling in deadly shards, the fire coming in scarlet ribbons. Your nature was of fire, as befitted your passion but for Him you took the mantle of night and embodied the contradiction of elements, as best as you could.
    [X] Underestimated
    [x] The condition of the orcs present and the efforts being made.
    [x] Ulmo
    [X] Understand the enemy
    [x] Seeing the truth
    [X] One after the other
    --[x] Use our shiny diplomacy stat to make sure Thrain's sensibilities aren't trampled over or his honor besmirched. Also make sure Gandalf doesn't butt in needlessly, or at least doesn't cut Saruman off as he seemed prone to do when he is concerned.
    -[x] Use this lead-in to touch on the issue of the rings and how the whole business of trapping the Fea in the Hroa works. Ask Saruman to offer any insight into the implications.
    [x] The stories of returned heroes and kings and how they're undoubtedly Sauron's Nazgul.
    [x] No
    [X] Morwen
    [X] About our dream and what could it mean about Sauron's plans
    [X] Yes
    [X] Even as a servant of Nienna you don't think Morgoth will ever seek redemption. The Valar thought so for they threw him into the Void without the possibility to plead his cause. To abase himself before another, even the Allfather is contrary to Morgoth's very essence. He is nothing but the Black Foe of the world now and all traces of his light are but fading memories.
    [x] Aulë to give you the resistance of stone
    [X] Even if he amended himself, you cannot see Melkor take the role he was meant to take at the beginning of time. Too much power was squandered for that. Yet he could take a role in creation. Perhaps he could wed Nienna who mourns for what never was and complement her by longing for what will never be. They would not make a happy couple in the strictest sense but them that's not their role in creation.
    [x] Any issues the others wish to raise.
    [X] You long for the absence of the limits you had when you followed the Shadow. You felt as if nothing could constrain you, as you were free to do everything. Melkor was the wellspring of infinite potential and he promised freedom from all limits and all chains. Now you have willingly put yourself in the service of another and gladly so but you still remember the urge to do simply whatever you want.
    [X] You hate yourself for being so easily misled. Melkor was ever the liar you see that now, he lied even to himself. Yet you followed him willingly, ensnared by his promises, dazzled by his radiance. You thought you were being good, perhaps even that you still served Eru's great purpose and were still on the side of the Father's.
    [x] The warning dream you have had. Sauron clearly must be dealt with.
    [X] You hate yourself for becoming numb to pain and evil as they occurred around you. You despise your cowardice as you took your rage on lesser beings but let the fire in your heart die. You did not embrace evil wholeheaterdly, at least not in the beginning, but you didn't speak against it let alone act to slow things down, even when Melkor would accept counsel. You renounced the good of the intellect and became a dumb beast, hurting to hurt and killing to kill, with no zeal but numb apathy.
    [X] Estë to heal you from your wounds
    [X] Estë to heal you from your wounds
    [x] Able to use current ressources at their utmost
    [X] Tulkas to fight it
    [X] You hate yourself for you believed wholeheartedly in Melkor's cause. You understood it perfectly. You saw his thoughts change from desiring the Light to hating it and you changed with him. You understood his rebellion against Eru Allfather and decided to bear arms in his service. No atrocity was enough, no crime was enough to make the creator pay for refusing to let you alter the world to your liking. Melkor deserved your worship, he deserved to have his own world, or at least the crown of Arda and the adoration of the other Valar.
    [x] Work with others
    [x] Conciliant
    [X] Yavanna
    [X] The Rings
    [X] Plan Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness
    [X] pass to Morwen
    [X] Gandalf

    See more…

Adhoc vote count started by ganonso on Nov 25, 2017 at 3:51 PM, finished with 1643 posts and 17 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by ganonso on Nov 25, 2017 at 7:24 PM, finished with 1646 posts and 19 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by ganonso on Nov 26, 2017 at 5:53 AM, finished with 1647 posts and 20 votes.
 
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The Valar
i think it's important and well some are slight departures or explanations (Vana is not that easy to define by instance as she does nothing of note)

Manwe: Air
Varda: Light

Aulë: Earth
Yavanna: Plants

Namo: Justice
Vaïre: Fate

Irmo: Dreams
Este: Healing

Oromë: Tamed Animals
Vana: Fertility

Tulkas: War
Nessa: Wild Animals

Ulmo: Water
Nienna: Grace

Melkor: Chaos
 
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