Crusader Kings: A Byzantium Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
[x] Alexios Komnenos:
i disagree with you, its true that the relationship between east and west was getting better but to essentialy surrender to the pope was out of question.
You are forgetting the fact that byzantines consider themselves heirs to the roman empire and they were very arrogant about the fact. Furthermore you are making many assumptions here, the church whould not splinter about this, instead the would be against it because of religious reasons and because of fear of losing power. The nobles wont necessary see the union as benefit, why accept a religious leader they can not influence. Finally the people at the time were very religious so a surrender to what was perceived as the wrong dogma whould most definetely end in rebellion
You are forgetting the fact that byzantines consider themselves heirs to the roman empire and they were very arrogant about the fact. Furthermore you are making many assumptions here, the church whould not splinter about this, instead the would be against it because of religious reasons and because of fear of losing power. The nobles wont necessary see the union as benefit, why accept a religious leader they can not influence. Finally the people at the time were very religious so a surrender to what was perceived as the wrong dogma whould most definetely end in rebellion
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
The thing is though. The actual difference was on a matter no one outside the upper clergy even cares/knows about. The dogma, theology and everything else was identical. Sure there were many unique practices, but nothing uncanonical. The zeal of the public wouldn't have matterd. Since it was largely a dispute over politics and linguistics, not of faith. That would be a later development.
As for heirs to Rome. The emperor had power over the church. Which is why he was pro schism. By conceding to Rome, he loses a large chunk of his authority over the church. The nobility however, would actually not mind at all, since a weaker emperor is an opportunity for them to strike.
And for splinter, its quite likely. The church in the east was already in disagreement over the matter, it was imperial influence that unified it. As such if the emperor concedes, a large segment of the clergy will do so as well, (the schism was a political issue, not a religious one at the time). And as is the case with every ecumenical council, the segments that do not agree to comply will splinter off.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
And its precisely due to the extreme religious adherence of the populace that church councils where so effective. The church was the sole minister of faith, if it changed its stance on something, the public has to adhere to the change; to do otherwise is to sin. (it wouldn't be until Luther that lay ministry becomes a thing)
(Byzantium was a bit different since the emperor could and did dictate dogma to the church, via his control of the bishops)
Thus, so long as a clear majority emerges in the council, the change is iron clad. Those who reject it are heretics/Schismatics/deviants and dealt with as such. And if the emperor swings West, a majority will form, and byzantine tradition already had it that the emperor can enforce dogma.
(Byzantium was a bit different since the emperor could and did dictate dogma to the church, via his control of the bishops)
Thus, so long as a clear majority emerges in the council, the change is iron clad. Those who reject it are heretics/Schismatics/deviants and dealt with as such. And if the emperor swings West, a majority will form, and byzantine tradition already had it that the emperor can enforce dogma.
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- Location
- Virginia
[X] Alexios Komnenos
- Location
- Germany
[X] Alexios Komnenos
StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
You all disappoint me
So so very much
So so very much
theauthor
Birdie
- Location
- Soerabaja
Well at least we're going to see joy of being invaded by turks and norman, contanstly being raid by pecheneg and dealing with rebellious noble.You all disappoint me
So so very much
StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
- Location
- Texas
Later today or tonight, most likely. Alexios is the clear winner, so prepare yourself for some hardcore Byzantining.
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
ROME, ROME, ROME, ROME, ROME.
StellarMonarch
Myrmidon
- Location
- Québec
Can someone post a map of what we should expect?
0.1: Game Setup
- Location
- Texas
You are Alexios Komnenos, of the House of Komnenos. By the eternal grace and glory of Iesous Kristos, Pankreator, you have been acclaimed as the Basileius, Imperator of the Basileia ton Rhomaion--the Empire of the Romans. Centuries ago, the western half of the Empire crumbled, eaten from within by rebellion and without by the unwashed barbaroi of Europe. But in the east, in Konstantinoúpolis, the great Queen of Cities, the light of civilization survived, undimmed, and has weathered these seven centuries. Here, undaunted by the weight of years, it has withstood wars with the Persian, the Bulgar, the Serb, and countless civil wars and rebellions.
But now the empire of a thousand years--your empire--stands on the brink of collapse. After the terrible defeat of the Imperial forces by Turkish armies at the Battle of Manzikert in 1071, the Basilea Rhomaion is in disarray. With the Imperial armies shattered, the Turks, led by the great Turkish conqueror Alp Arslan Seljuq, Sultan of all Persia, conquered the entire Anatolian peninsula. In the years that followed, Alp Arslan's cousin Suleyman established a vast Turkish realm in Asia Minor, and to add gravest insult to mortal injury, his sultanate has taken the mocking name of Rum--'Rome' in the Turkish tongue.
Ironically, it is in the wars against the Turks that you won yourself distinction and glory as the greatest of the generals of the Basilea Rhomaion. It is this acclaim that would bring you to the throne of the Empire itself. With help from your family, most notably your wife's grandfather, John Doukas, you and your brother Isaac overthrew the Emperor Nicephoros Botaniates, and you ascended to the Imperial Throne. The Empire you have inherited, however, is a dying one. Religious fanatics and heretics agitate against you, while powerful lords and generals scheme in your court, many seeking to ascend the Imperial Throne over your cooling corpse. And even if you overcome the threats within your ever-shrinking borders, you are threatened by the Turks to the East, the Normans in Italy to the West, and the Pecheneg horde to the north. In the end, it will be all you can do to ensure that this final vestige of Rome survives, much less reclaims it's former glory.
Ave, Caesar.
Which year do you wish to start in?
[] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
[] The Emperor in the Aegean: The year is 1090. Taking advantage of the constant warfare in the Empire (and the consequently weakened state of the Imperial navy), a Turkish pirate and raider by the name of Tzachas has seized control of many of the islands in the Aegean Sea, including Lesbos and Rhodes. Armed with a mighty fleet, he has defeated several campaigns against him, and has spent the last decade extorting and raiding Imperial shipping lanes. No longer content in choking Imperial trade, the pirate has declared himself Basileius, Emperor of the Romans, and made common cause with the Pechenegs, a great and heathen horde of barbaroi hailing from the northern steppes. These Pechenegs have long sought to raid and plunder the heartlands of the Empire, and now, allied with Tzachas, they make for Constantinople herself, seeking to upend your throne.
[] The First Crusade: The year is 1095. With the Normans, the Pechenegs, and your other foes defeated or quelled, the way is clear to begin the reclamation of the Imperial heartlands in Anatolia. Seeking mercenaries to aid your fatigued armies in the reconquest of your lands, you sent emissaries to Rome to request aid from your Christian brothers to the West against the Turkish enemy. The result was far more than anything you could ever have expected. In a move unprecedented in history, Pope Urban II has declared a Crusade--a mighty holy war in which the lords and knights of Christendom shall march to war to reclaim the lands of Christendom from the Turk and the Arab. He promises that those who give their lives for the Crusade shall be granted remission for their sins in heaven, and as such, a mighty religious zeal has consumed Europe. From the lords of far-away England and France to the Norman lords so recently your enemies, the realms of Christendom have taken up arms, and the battle-cry of the Crusaders sounds across the western world, heralding a new age of religious war with it. Deus Vult!
But now the empire of a thousand years--your empire--stands on the brink of collapse. After the terrible defeat of the Imperial forces by Turkish armies at the Battle of Manzikert in 1071, the Basilea Rhomaion is in disarray. With the Imperial armies shattered, the Turks, led by the great Turkish conqueror Alp Arslan Seljuq, Sultan of all Persia, conquered the entire Anatolian peninsula. In the years that followed, Alp Arslan's cousin Suleyman established a vast Turkish realm in Asia Minor, and to add gravest insult to mortal injury, his sultanate has taken the mocking name of Rum--'Rome' in the Turkish tongue.
Ironically, it is in the wars against the Turks that you won yourself distinction and glory as the greatest of the generals of the Basilea Rhomaion. It is this acclaim that would bring you to the throne of the Empire itself. With help from your family, most notably your wife's grandfather, John Doukas, you and your brother Isaac overthrew the Emperor Nicephoros Botaniates, and you ascended to the Imperial Throne. The Empire you have inherited, however, is a dying one. Religious fanatics and heretics agitate against you, while powerful lords and generals scheme in your court, many seeking to ascend the Imperial Throne over your cooling corpse. And even if you overcome the threats within your ever-shrinking borders, you are threatened by the Turks to the East, the Normans in Italy to the West, and the Pecheneg horde to the north. In the end, it will be all you can do to ensure that this final vestige of Rome survives, much less reclaims it's former glory.
Ave, Caesar.
Which year do you wish to start in?
[] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
[] The Emperor in the Aegean: The year is 1090. Taking advantage of the constant warfare in the Empire (and the consequently weakened state of the Imperial navy), a Turkish pirate and raider by the name of Tzachas has seized control of many of the islands in the Aegean Sea, including Lesbos and Rhodes. Armed with a mighty fleet, he has defeated several campaigns against him, and has spent the last decade extorting and raiding Imperial shipping lanes. No longer content in choking Imperial trade, the pirate has declared himself Basileius, Emperor of the Romans, and made common cause with the Pechenegs, a great and heathen horde of barbaroi hailing from the northern steppes. These Pechenegs have long sought to raid and plunder the heartlands of the Empire, and now, allied with Tzachas, they make for Constantinople herself, seeking to upend your throne.
[] The First Crusade: The year is 1095. With the Normans, the Pechenegs, and your other foes defeated or quelled, the way is clear to begin the reclamation of the Imperial heartlands in Anatolia. Seeking mercenaries to aid your fatigued armies in the reconquest of your lands, you sent emissaries to Rome to request aid from your Christian brothers to the West against the Turkish enemy. The result was far more than anything you could ever have expected. In a move unprecedented in history, Pope Urban II has declared a Crusade--a mighty holy war in which the lords and knights of Christendom shall march to war to reclaim the lands of Christendom from the Turk and the Arab. He promises that those who give their lives for the Crusade shall be granted remission for their sins in heaven, and as such, a mighty religious zeal has consumed Europe. From the lords of far-away England and France to the Norman lords so recently your enemies, the realms of Christendom have taken up arms, and the battle-cry of the Crusaders sounds across the western world, heralding a new age of religious war with it. Deus Vult!
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[X] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
[X] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
ChiefTurtle117
The Sigillite
- Location
- Holy Terra
[X] The Norman Invasion:
Rome, Rome, Rome
Rome, Rome, Rome
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
- Location
- USA
[X] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
- Location
- Austria
I saw Deus Vult and knew what I am voting for.
[X] The First Crusade: The year is 1095. With the Normans, the Pechenegs, and your other foes defeated or quelled, the way is clear to begin the reclamation of the Imperial heartlands in Anatolia. Seeking mercenaries to aid your fatigued armies in the reconquest of your lands, you sent emissaries to Rome to request aid from your Christian brothers to the West against the Turkish enemy. The result was far more than anything you could ever have expected. In a move unprecedented in history, Pope Urban II has declared a Crusade--a mighty holy war in which the lords and knights of Christendom shall march to war to reclaim the lands of Christendom from the Turk and the Arab. He promises that those who give their lives for the Crusade shall be granted remission for their sins in heaven, and as such, a mighty religious zeal has consumed Europe. From the lords of far-away England and France to the Norman lords so recently your enemies, the realms of Christendom have taken up arms, and the battle-cry of the Crusaders sounds across the western world, heralding a new age of religious war with it. Deus Vult!
[X] The First Crusade: The year is 1095. With the Normans, the Pechenegs, and your other foes defeated or quelled, the way is clear to begin the reclamation of the Imperial heartlands in Anatolia. Seeking mercenaries to aid your fatigued armies in the reconquest of your lands, you sent emissaries to Rome to request aid from your Christian brothers to the West against the Turkish enemy. The result was far more than anything you could ever have expected. In a move unprecedented in history, Pope Urban II has declared a Crusade--a mighty holy war in which the lords and knights of Christendom shall march to war to reclaim the lands of Christendom from the Turk and the Arab. He promises that those who give their lives for the Crusade shall be granted remission for their sins in heaven, and as such, a mighty religious zeal has consumed Europe. From the lords of far-away England and France to the Norman lords so recently your enemies, the realms of Christendom have taken up arms, and the battle-cry of the Crusaders sounds across the western world, heralding a new age of religious war with it. Deus Vult!
NuclearConsensus
Herald of the Thorned One
- Location
- the Philippines
[X] The Norman Invasion: The year is 1081. You have ascended the throne of the Empire, largely thanks to the machinations of your mother, Anna Dalassena, and your grandfather-in-law, the powerful John Doukas. While your rule is in and of itself stable, a mighty threat looms on the horizon. The Normans, invaders from the West who conquered southern Italy over twenty years ago, prepare to launch a mighty invasion of the Empire's western territories. The Normans support the claim of a monk who claims to be the long-deposed emperor, Micheal Doukas. This is little more than a pretext, however, for the Norman conquest of Greece and the Balkans by the ambitious Duke of the Normans, the legendary Robert Guiscard. If Guiscard and his son, Bohemond, are successful, your reign will end before it even truly begins, and history will remember you only as the last Roman Emperor.
- Location
- Texas
As always with my quests, reasonable and measured discussion is always appreciated, and rewarded.*
*Translation: Kill each other over your differences in opinion like the animals you are, that I may watch and be entertained. The first player to dismember another in my name will receive a Questing Peanut. The Questing Peanut is an absolutely normal peanut, save the fact that you murdered a man for it.
Also, it's kind of shiny, I guess.
*Translation: Kill each other over your differences in opinion like the animals you are, that I may watch and be entertained. The first player to dismember another in my name will receive a Questing Peanut. The Questing Peanut is an absolutely normal peanut, save the fact that you murdered a man for it.
Also, it's kind of shiny, I guess.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
not much of a discussion here. basically a matter of how early you like to start.