Concho117
Going really fast!
- Location
- Somewhere in Orbit
In either case they need to be disposed of.
After all it doesn't matter if a hostile country has a spy ring in you if that hostile country no longer exists.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
In either case they need to be disposed of.
After all it doesn't matter if a hostile country has a spy ring in you if that hostile country no longer exists.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Oh I like you
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While their language contains Welsh elements, the PIE groups are related to the steppe nomads, who spent the past two thousand years or so spreading west where you have no idea what is going on. You do create a weird back pressure by occasionally drawing tribes east rather than them continually moving west, and also drawing more eastern tribes more quickly to the west. The currently developing central Indo-European languages are probably picking up extra elements of Turkic and Mongolic languages as well as mixing unknown extinct languages like peers of proto-Basque.
Half of voters.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
That's because sometimes war is necessary and sometimes aggressive wars are also necessary for the greater good
Concho117
Going really fast!
- Location
- Somewhere in Orbit
If we are compromised then that means the blackbirds and some high-ranking nobility are compromised too.
Invading and assimilating them also secures our Southern Border against attack.
The Highland Kingdom needs to be dealt as soon as possible to prevent them from carrying out further espionage actions, therefore we can't have a poor martial king.
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] No
[X] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)
Invading and assimilating them also secures our Southern Border against attack.
The Highland Kingdom needs to be dealt as soon as possible to prevent them from carrying out further espionage actions, therefore we can't have a poor martial king.
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
[X] No
[X] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)
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Are you even bothering to track specific people who said they'd go along with war and then backed out of it, or are you just tarring the entire side that's opposed with that brush?
I believe that five people does not make "most" in a thread of about a hundred.
That's what we had.
Five people strongly in favor of punishing them for their treachery.
Ten-odd people(including myself here) strongly in favor of SOME solution to the HK, but admitting that, at the time, war was probably the only way.
New information is that we may be able to suppress their warmaking with the games and given their location, cultural assimilation via pilgrimage or refugees is not impossible.
Calendars arose with advanced astrology. We currently have the Agricultural calendar, where details smaller than a year, an agricultural season and a month were not very important, and likewise, people will peg times of day by solar orientation(dawn, noon, nightfall).Wait what?
Really? We don't have calendars or any timekeeping? I thought that having bureaucracy would already assume that this is true.
A Merc wouldn't, because the mercenary company is garrisoning the current single most fortified section of the country in the former Stallion Tribes land. They take advantage of existing infrastructure, particularly the extensive forestry, defenses and docks set up by the Stallion Tribes.
If you park a company in the open steppes of course they'd get run over like a new March.
We do know, because the hit procs the moment you fail to protect land:
-Stallion Tribes NEARLY razed - No Stability(settlements not harmed, defeat in field only)
-Stonepen penetration - 1 Stability
-Txolla lost minor settlements - 1 Stability
-Hatvalley NEARLY taken - No Stability(settlements not harmed, defeat in field only)
We know that defeat in the field doesn't count, but losing settlements do.
We know that Core or Subordinate doesn't matter.
1) Marches have done deep strikes, but we know from the Xohyr taking that Mercenary companies are significantly more mobile, they function similarly to Nomad tribes if they don't need to replenish manpower.
2) We do not have exact WoG, but the western extent of the Western Wall is currently further from the Stallion Tribes than the Heaven's Hawks are to Txolla. Given distance limitations, the Stallions cannot be expected to be able to support the Western Wall without leaving their defenses wide open(which has in fact happened before during the Father/Son combo, where the force supporting the Western Wall war mission left their land undergarrisoned so the Son went through), though as a counterpoint we know that our Marches can take Support Ally to transfer martial over in an emergency.
3) We know the Red Banner has superior punch to even our Royal core units. We also know that our Marches have not elicited similar commentary when deployed alongside core units, nor do March Heroic Martial kings comment unfavorably upon the quality of the core units. Thus, it is comparable by textual evidence.
Uh please no, that was not my stance.
My stance is "we need to resolve the Highland Kingdom problem one way or another"
Putting them into the Games can open up alternative resolution methods, through Protectorate vassalization if nothing else by dragging a power that cannot grow into the cultural sphere of a Great Power.
And if it doesn't...then I'd feel very justified to declare war on them knowing that there is no cure
Whenever An presented a range of numbers, they are equivalent unless mentioned otherwise. For instance, our Restore Order roll. Equal odds of each value.
I figure if we discover the Shadow Network via Heroic Admin Restore Order, we'd get a decision point about how to resolve them with the obvious solutions:
-Purge them and get Stability
-Purge them and spent resources to set up a replacement network under us
-Try to bring them into the fold, which requires a roll and risks Stability dropping further
-Just keep tabs on them and leave it for a future king.
Yes, and I agree on that. I simply stated that this Certain Point is when we convert the area north of Stallion Tribes to something that can support large settled populations via dams or canals. Until then you'd be using crappy soil that Black Soil can't improve(because it doesn't add water, and the soil is perfectly good) to try to raise a settled force to match the nomad hordes. Heck, given the position of the Triangle Canal supporting TWO marches would not be impossible, particularly with a fortified city parked on the artificial delta..
Opportunistic only. If we roll another Heroic Mystic, go for it, otherwise get in line after the Dam.
Not strictly out, but doing it AFTER we fixed the corruption problem is fine.
Centers of commerce are historically one of the best uses for free cities however. It keeps them useful in a permanent manner, while at the same time their reliance on commerce makes them permanently dependent upon the core provinces. If they get messed the trade will dry up.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I believe AN has already said the Blackbirds are comprised by someone. He didn't say Highlanders, but someone.
Here is the way I see it.I keep telling people. Aqeuducts aren't magic city buttons. They're SEWER SYSTEMS.
I'm guessing this is actually modelling the extra irrigation the aqueduct allows. It incentivizes people to leave the city and go plant stuff in the newly fertile ground.
An Aqueduct adds four EE units of urban space. This space DOESN'T contribute to other True Cities' EE caps, because the EE caps are based on the availability of rich farmland, i.e. rural space.
This also lets us understand why the cap for our "weakest" city stays the same even as we add more city slots; because that bottom limit (originally 10, increased gradually to 13 as we've expanded to cover more territory) represents the threshold at which available farmland is nice enough that people start leaving cities.
A poor martial king won us the great war. Compared to that the HK are a speed bump.
Concho117
Going really fast!
- Location
- Somewhere in Orbit
No, that was us pulling a Genius Martial General out of a hat.
And wasn't everyone surprised at that.
The Heroic Mystic guy only helped by discovering Steel and improving metallurgy.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Does this mean aqueduct only give 1 EE now? (Assuming I'm remembering right Nd it was at 16 before AN updated it to include aqueduct EE)
Choose a Wonder Bonus
[] [WB] Gain a free random value slot
[] [WB] Randomly upgrade a value
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[] [WB] Gain a free Gymnasium in Redshore
[] [WB] Gain a free Temple at Holy Sea
Choose Who to Invite (Great Powers Participating, no cost to extend invitation), choose as many as desired
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
Make Redshore a free city?
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[] No
The next king would be
[] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)
[] [King] Yenyna (Genius Martial, Poor Admin, Awful Diplomacy, Wildcard Mystic; dangerously unpredictable)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
[] [WB] Gain a free random value slot
[] [WB] Randomly upgrade a value
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[] [WB] Gain a free Gymnasium in Redshore
[] [WB] Gain a free Temple at Holy Sea
Choose Who to Invite (Great Powers Participating, no cost to extend invitation), choose as many as desired
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
Make Redshore a free city?
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[] No
The next king would be
[] [King] Kinda mediocre (Mediocre Admin, Diplo, and Martial)
[] [King] Yenyna (Genius Martial, Poor Admin, Awful Diplomacy, Wildcard Mystic; dangerously unpredictable)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
A genius that is of the same age as the admin hero.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Aqueduct effects adjusted: +1 EE, but partially negates the penalty on disease rolls that large settlements present, and automatically puts the settlement on a list of potential True Cities. Sufficient concentration of other infrastructure can also put a city on the list. Public baths will also become available now (they already should be... ah, I'll say groups like the Indus Valley Civilization had a value that allowed for early development), which require aqueducts and fuel for heating the water and also have public health benefits.
Hmm, but mechanically they tend to dissolve cities instead....maybe have cities 'commit' 4 Econ Expansions which the Aqueducts will offset rather than add expansions directly?
Not unlike modern olympic really. The big countries can field so many candidates and pick from such a wide range of contestants that they're invariably going to dominate everything....until some Mercantile city-state realize they can hire away the talents of large but less rich state to compete for them!
Aka The House Always Wins.
Though once it starts I'd not be surprised to see it become a sort of international diplomacy venue where the Great Powers in attendance can influence a lot of minors without spending many actions, while the minor powers get the marginally better deal of "auction your services to the highest bidder" compared to the normal "do what the great power says or be stompyed"
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
We're comparing the performance of an established march and a merc here. The Stallions had those same advantages, and got run over.
You're forgetting that a swift raid through our core cost us stability. And that the nomad's razed all the non-walled settlements in the stallion tribes. So this is 100% in my favor.
-Stallion Tribes razed aside from the largest settlements - No stability loss
-Single hit-and-run raid on core territory - -1 stability.
Txolla was conquered in the same update we lost HatValley to HK. -1 Stability (possibly for conquering subordinate, possibly for conquering core.)
Gulvalley was pushed back into walled settlements - No loss.
Completely compatible with us taking more damage when our core gets hit.
1) The mercenary companies are more mobile, in that they can be based from any subordinate. I acknowledged that last time. That's not a difference in size of logisitic train or distance of projection; we just were able to base them from a new subordinate closer to the action (Txolla). Which isn't an option vs. nomads so not relevant to the north.
2) Terrain matters. Comparing distances across mountain ranges to across steppes doesn't work. Also, goalpost shifting: you stated they couldn't deploy forces that far originally, and are now backing up 'will leave their base undefended'. Not the same thing.
3) Absence of evidence to the contrary isn't evidence.
Cool.
Though IIRC the ancient baths were a little prone to spreading disease if not supervised properly even as they encouraged unusually high levels of hygiene by making it cheap to do so. On the other hand I suspect some of the contestants, after their charcoal heated public baths, might start making a habit of getting "lost" somewhere after the Games on the way back
Will that be a problem or will our Sacred Warding clinics and Law for community health ensure that they are properly inspected?
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Aw yiss.
[K] [Main] Build baths
[K] [Main] Build baths x2
[K] [Secondary] Build baths
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
[X] [WB] Upgrade Cosmopolitan Acceptance
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
A thought: nomads might not take kindly to having their asses whupped by settled people at mock-combat, and might take to increased raiding if they lose to 'prove' themselves.
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
[X] [Inv] Highland Kingdom
[X] [Inv] Trelli
[X] [Inv] Thunder Horse
[X] [Inv] Swamp Folk
[X] [Inv] Metal Workers
[X] [Inv] Storm Wolves
A thought: nomads might not take kindly to having their asses whupped by settled people at mock-combat, and might take to increased raiding if they lose to 'prove' themselves.
[X] Yes (2 Econ and 2 Econ expansion transferred, Redshore becomes a Free City)
[X] [King] Hertythn (Heroic Admin, Average Diplo, Poor Martial; takes control while alive (1, possibly 2 turns))
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Except the issue is that establishing a march is slow. The Stallions after 10 turns of build up stood off the Nomads easily. The Stallions after 6 turns got rolled.
Ergo, it takes SERIOUS time for a march to reach defensive maturity.
The Mercenaries meanwhile are garrisoning a fully mature former march.
The stallions only lost their farmsteads though. We counted their settlements, they didn't lose any settlement that was founded by actions, only the generic settlements represented by Expand Economy.
However, the Core raid burned significant unwalled villages in Northshore.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Cool.
Though IIRC the ancient baths were a little prone to spreading disease if not supervised properly even as they encouraged unusually high levels of hygiene by making it cheap to do so. On the other hand I suspect some of the contestants, after their charcoal heated public baths, might start making a habit of getting "lost" somewhere after the Games on the way back
Will that be a problem or will our Sacred Warding clinics and Law for community health ensure that they are properly inspected?
Because of your set-up...
Yeah, your baths are both more expensive than normal and actually cost Mysticism of all things because you have shamans and priests on patrol for public health reasons. Those showing signs of disease will be isolated from bathing with the rest of the public.
@Aabcehmu
According to AN that's voting AGAINST all invitations. Choose wisely.
Also remember the main reasons for Nomads to raid us are:
-They are weak and have loot - Disproven by the Games when they see our performance.
-They are strong and I wish to test myself against them - Need fulfilled by the Games. Also damn fine prostitute and hot baths. Mmm, hot baths....